Lens MAY be similar, but this is a new CMOS chip - probably the same as the CX560/700. Sony managed to squeeze 60P into these latest generation sensors, I suspect the last generation couldn't quite handle the data rate... although it sure would be nice if there were firmware updates to "almost new" cameras!

so how does it compare to the AG-AC130 and the Canon XF-100? All of these are about $3000. Which one would you want to own and why? I realize the only one that is out right now is the XF- 100, so your basicly just comparing specifications and hypothesizing.

If you need a weather resistant camera for mainly automatic operation with the ability to easily look like a consumer camera to avoid attention then the HXR NX70 is the choice. If you need a single lens version of a pro camera then the other two will be better choices in my opinion. The Panasonic has a 20 x zoom and both the Panasonic and the Canon have dual card capabilities for dual record and copy. They will however always look like a pro camera.

The extra features that keep coming to light about the NX70 look good but it is still like my CX700 in a better case with more of the firmware features turned on ( that I am sure in Sony fashion are in my CX700 !!!). At almost 2.5 times the price of the CX700 I still think its expensive. The others two are single chip versions of the 3 chip pro models and are more in line for their price I think.

Ron Evans

AG-AC130, which incorporate high-sensitivity 1/3”, full-HD 2.2 megapixel 3-MOS imagers to capture native 1920 x 1080 resolution images, with a new, wider 21X HD zoom lens

doesn't this mean 3-MOS imagers three separate chips?

I had thought the Panasonic AG-AC130 was going to be at a higher price point than these compact cams? In the UK, it looks like it will be around the same price as the Sony NX5.

I didn't get on well with my Panasonic HMC40. My needs are for a compact, travel-capable camera with integrated or detachable XLR capabilities, and a good wide angle lens.

Currently, my options are the Canon XF-100, and the forthcoming Sony NX-70. I ruled out the JVC HM100, as the LCD and EVF are much the same as the HMC40, and it isn't a very wide lens. Over time, I have come to detest wide angle adapters.

I'm not doing this for a living, so the XF-100 pretty soon becomes expensive, with proper CF cards not being cheap. The NX-70 with its built-in 96GB of storage, cheaper SDHC cards, and dump-to-hard-disk feature ticks all the boxes, and the weatherproofing is a bonus. The Sony also comes with a shotgun mic, and breaks down to a more discrete size than the JVC.

I've stuck my neck out, and am waiting for the Sony to arrive with my UK dealer. Hopefully it will be a very wet summer in Ireland!

Lens MAY be similar, but this is a new CMOS chip - probably the same as the CX560/700. Sony managed to squeeze 60P into these latest generation sensors, I suspect the last generation couldn't quite handle the data rate... although it sure would be nice if there were firmware updates to "almost new" cameras!

How can you tell it's a different sensor?
All of the specs that I've seen appear to be the same:
1/2.88" Exmor R CMOS Sensor
BIONZ Image processor.
Sony G lens 37mm
10x optical zoom.

I sent an email to Sony asking if they would update the firmware for the MC50. They said they had no plans to do so. Disappointing. Bad form Sony.
And there appears to be a pretty big push among VG10 owners to get the same firmware upgrade.
It looks like 2010 was the wrong year to buy a Sony prosumer Camera. I hope that planned obsolescence doesn't become part of Sony's Style.

AG-AC130, which incorporate high-sensitivity 1/3”, full-HD 2.2 megapixel 3-MOS imagers to capture native 1920 x 1080 resolution images, with a new, wider 21X HD zoom lens

doesn't this mean 3-MOS imagers three separate chips?

Absolutely correct and is the only one of that group. I was thinking more of the AC130/160 as the same grouping as the Sony AX2000/NX5 in that the differences between the two models have the same features differences like HD/SDi etc. If I were to rank regardless of price it would be the consumer cams ( like CX700) then the NX70 then a gap to the XF100 then close the AX2000 and AC130 then the AC160 and NX5U etc. I think the biggest difference between the CX700/NX70 and the others is the lens assembly moving from a 37mm to around the 72mm size. If there is not much difference in street price I would go for the AC160 or the NX5U. When I bought my NX5U the difference in Canada was only $200 between the AX2000 and the NX5U. With a bigger battery, mic, FMU128 capability and the extra features the decision was easy.

The water proofing etc are of real value in lots of situations but in nice weather in automatic operation I expect the NX70 will be identical to the CX700 . If you want to be discreet in bad weather then the NX70 is the answer. If you mainly video indoors then the others will be much better choices I think. At $2000 street price the extra features over the CX700 would make the NX70 a very attractive camera.

Ron Evans

How can you tell it's a different sensor?
All of the specs that I've seen appear to be the same:
1/2.88" Exmor R CMOS Sensor
BIONZ Image processor.
Sony G lens 37mm
10x optical zoom.

I sent an email to Sony asking if they would update the firmware for the MC50. They said they had no plans to do so. Disappointing. Bad form Sony.
And there appears to be a pretty big push among VG10 owners to get the same firmware upgrade.
It looks like 2010 was the wrong year to buy a Sony prosumer Camera. I hope that planned obsolescence doesn't become part of Sony's Style.

Check ALL of the specs -
CX700 - sensor gross pixels 6650/ effective 6140, lens range 26.3-263mm
CX550 - (effective?) 4500, 29.6-298mm

The specs you listed are probably the same for just about any Sony camera from the last few years - physics and design economies dictate the sensor size/dimension, but the number of pixels typically increases year over year (although Canon went the OTHER direction this year, with improved low light performance) The lens range is entirely different than the FILTER size (37mm)... although the lenses "may" be identical, with other minor changes in the lens block resulting in slightly different lens range.

SO, as I stated, the MC50 and the CX700/CX560/NX70 are using different CMOS sensors... and it's likely the CX700 and NX70 share a lens block assembly that differs to some degree from the CX550, not to mention the processing modules have probably changed/improved. It's not "planned obsolesence" - in the consumer space, marketing considerations dictate "new and improved" (at least on paper) models be released EVERY 12 months like clockwork, whether the actual product is radically different (changeover from the CMOS in the SR11/12 to the Exmor R of the "500" series), or the color change and minor feature creep from the HC7 to the HC9... If you buy and sell right, you just upgrade if the new model justifies it... which brings us to...

In general, from what I've been able to find, there are reports of some lens distortion issues with the CX700, and it is not quite as good in low light as the CX550... I'm waiting to see more reports, but the CX550 is working just fine, and for 60P I'm looking at Sony's P&S line (TX100 & HX9) for the moment - less $$$, and while it's a much smaller sensor, it does a pretty good job with video from the WX10 sample I got cheap...

Sony typically does not release firmware or updates unless there's a HUGE hue and cry - they did update the NEX3/5, and rumors swirl about a VG10 update, but usually unless it's a "bug fix" that happens to include a few unlocked features as a peace offering, it doesn't happen (and I'd venture to say that's TYPICAL for all the mfrs, not just Sony).

I've thought that there'd be a good market in "hacking" Sony firmware (ala magic lantern/GH13), and offering "unlocks" of features and upgraded performance, but of course there would probably be other "side effects", and I'm guessing because Sony is widely regarded as a "consumer" camera, there's little interest in such a project... I reverse engineered the hardware to figure out the hidden LANC and other features on the A/V and to some degree the AiShoe, but the firmware is a bit above my current ability to research - Sony doesn't release enough engineering information to work with...


I concur with Ron that the NX70 would "fit" better by taking over the slot currently occupied by the FX7, and at about the same price point - I still suspect they may release a "consumer" NX70, but with the earthquake/tsunami/nuclear disater, I think they're lucky to be producing current models (that WX10 I mentioned I picked up cheap is a 2011 model, and they ALREADY discontinued it, no doubt to conserve sensors for other models!). When comparing to say the XA10, the NX70 seems a "tad" overpriced, but totally different "features", so if you need to "dunk" your rig or use it in a dust storm...

Check ALL of the specs -
CX700 - sensor gross pixels 6650/ effective 6140, lens range 26.3-263mm
CX550 - (effective?) 4500, 29.6-298mm


Dave,
Thanks for taking the time to post such a detailed reply. Much appreciated.
I didn't realize that the pixel count was increased again.

I'm just suffering from "interlace anxiety" - probably over reacting. I went out last year in a frenzy and bought 2 CX550s & 2 MC50s at the same time when my DV cameras started dying. I just assumed that there would be some sort of progressive options (even 720) since my 10 year old sony TRV900s had the option to shoot progressive.
But in hindsight, given the line-up that i was choosing from and my budget, I probably would have made the same choice.

Most of the stuff that I do will be delivered on Blu-ray and for the web I don't need 1080 so I can downscale to make the footage progressive.

The NX70 looks really attractive. If they've improved the low-light performance it really could be a game changer.

Thanks again
c

Well, at the moment I'm keeping my CX550's for the foreseeable future... I've added an A55 SLT for certain things, and a TX100 or HX9 will probably be filling the last slot...

I suspect the increase in pixels may have resulted in worse low light performance in the CX700/560 than the CX550/MC50 is capable of... but until I have hands on one of the new cams, no way to know. I like the idea of 60P and have seen some impressive progressive video shot from a TX100... and the testing I've done with the new sensor in the P&S cameras was pretty good in low light, although not as good as the CX550 in low lux mode.

I'm looking at the NX70, particularly if the price comes down or a good deal on a lightly used one comes along. Haven't had a "big cam" (not that the NX is "big"...) in a long time - the little monsters do fine for what I want them to do!

My CX700 does as well as my XR500 for low light and as I mentioned before it now seems to gain up to 21 db with less noise than the XR500 at 18db. In fact it has very little noise at all unless scene is deliberately over exposed then there is colour noise as would be expected. Low lux mode also appears cleaner than the XR500 so there certainly have been changes in the image sensor and the Bionz processor.

Ron Evans

Has anyone gotten their hands on an instructions manual for the NX70?

I am considering between the Sony NX70 and the Canon XA10.

curious to see who will win in low light.

Another look, this time from Rick Young at MacVideo.tv, at NAB:

MacVideo - Camera Technology - Features - Sony show off the HXR-NX70E rain, dust-proof camera; NEX-FS100; PMW-F3 (http://www.macvideo.tv/camera-technology/features/index.cfm?articleId=3280359)

(Nothing new, mind you...don't get too excited!)

I was shooting a kayak tour with my VG10. Do you know how hard it is to paddle your own kayak while shooting video?
I was scared to death of dropping my camera or having it get splashed. An NX70 would have been great on this trip.

A GoPro GoPro Official Store: Wearable Digital Cameras for Sports (http://gopro.com/) or ContourHD Cameras -- Contour Online Store (http://store.contour.com/cameras-c6.aspx?gclid=CJfMgIWX-agCFRDPKgodc344Sg) would have been a lot easier and safer I think.

Ron Evans

I think (hope) this is going to be a great camera.

Right now I'm planning on getting at least 1, and maybe 2, to supplement my NX5U.

I love the ability to record to both SD card and the Flash at the same time. (I hope it has this capability!)

I think it has just one slot that will take either SD or MemoryStick just like the CX700 that I am sure it is based on.

Ron Evans

While it might be handy to record to internal flash and the DSHC/MSProDuo slot simultaneously, I'd suspect it won't - transfer between the two should be fairly fast and easy though.

All transfers on my CX700 are twice as slow as the other cameras I have. I do not have any of the previous CX version to tell whether it is any different as all my other consumer cameras are hard drive. The CX700 is just as slow transferring between the internal flash and the card slot. Last week I shot a theatre show with SR11, XR500, CX700 and NX5U of about 2hour and 30 mins. The NX5U FMU transferred in about 12 mins, the SR11 and XR500 in about 13 minutes. the CX700 took over 30 mins all were the same show length started and stopped at about the same time.

Ron Evans

The UK price of this seems to be settling at the high end, from £2700-£3000 including VAT... which is a bit disappointing, given that it is $2700 in the US. Not unexpected though.

After about 4 weeks of trying to decide what would be best for my projects and after looking at the JVC HM100, Panasonic HMC150, Canon XF100, Canon XA10 and Sony AX2000, I've decided to purchase the Sony NX70. My projects are mainly posted on clients websites. Many projects are "Run and Gun" type shots. I contacted my friend that's a Sony rep who referred me to an Authorized Sony dealer selling the NX70U for $2671 (placed my 10% holding deposit yesterday). I can't mention the name on this site as they are not one of the affiliates (they are located in Illinois).

The NX70's are expected to hit the docks in the US early June from what I was told. B&H (preferred forum vendor) is taking pre-orders! So please support the forum vendors.

Just out of curiosity, what swayed you in favor of the Sony, as opposed to the XF100?

I don't know about Troy, but I went for the Sony because:

- It is waterproof and I live in Ireland
- CF cards are too expensive for me - SD media and built-in Flash is very useful
- 1080 50p!
- 4:2:2 and 50Mbps isn't hugely important to me
- I've always liked Sony (that's not scientific at all!)
- It seems to break down to a smaller size (removing the handle/XLR)

But, to be perfectly honest, there's not a lot of difference in it, from my perspective. Other people's perspectives will of course be different.

Adam, I've used Canon products in the past (previously owned XL1s and XL2). Also have owned numerous (too many to list) Sony products. I'm not going to start the "this product is better than that product arguments," I'm just partial to Sony on the support/ customer service end. However, to answer your question (sorry for the long intro) I have several "desert shoots" coming up and thought the dust/ rain proof (along with all the other listed features like 60P) would work for my needs!

Hi all,

I have the camera on pre-order from proav.co.uk, and they have now said, that Sony has promised delivery to them on June 8, whereafter they will send it out.

Just to let you all know.

/peter

Would anyone care to speculate on the difference in low light performance between the Sony and the Canon XF100/XA10?

Hi all,

I have the camera on pre-order from proav.co.uk, and they have now said, that Sony has promised delivery to them on June 8, whereafter they will send it out.

Just to let you all know.

/peter

Peter, that's accurate with my statement in my previous post (regarding delivery). My friend is a Sony rep who stated "early June delivery" for US shipments too!

Would anyone care to speculate on the difference in low light performance between the Sony and the Canon XF100/XA10?

Adam, I too am curious on this issue. So far, I can only go on what others have reported (brief review and testing at NAB). All of these cams seem to be good low light producers. I'll test the Sony NX70U as soon as it's delivered! Will report to the forum ASAP!

You can do better than speculate. Look at the detailed reviews on camcorderinfo of both the Canon HFG10 (same sensor as the Canon XA10/XF100) and the Sony CX700 (which is believed to be the same sensor as the NX70). Likewise with the slashcam comparative review site (use Google translate if necessary).

I won't link either site or the reviews directly as that's not usually allowed on here but as with all web reviews, read them then make up your own mind.

My personal take is that the Canons will win with ease in this particular comparison - i.e. regarding low light performance - but obviously the Sony has other great features like is weatherproofing and lovely 1080p50/60.

The UK price of this seems to be settling at the high end, from £2700-£3000 including VAT... which is a bit disappointing, given that it is $2700 in the US. Not unexpected though.

Yesterday I found one known Belgian videostore listing the nx70 at allmost 3700 euro which is really too expensive for what you get in return, the canon xf100 is 3000euro and even older models like the pana hmx151, xh-a1s are 300 to 600 euro cheaper. Even the sony ax2000 sells at a lower price.

Proav.co.uk in the UK have it at around £2550, which is a bit better. The usual problem of exchange rates, taxes and "rip-off Britain" here. The only plus is that we get 2 years Silver Service support from Sony.

Still, it shouldn't be a surprise. The CX700 is US$ 1300... and over here, it's GB£ 1300!

My CX700 in Canada cost me $1200CAN or about 750 pounds at the current exchange rate.

Ron Evans

i've seen the sony nx70 listed here in spain for the first time.
3160 € vat included in one of the cheapest shops. seems a bit steep.
the canon xf100 is 3000€ and the xf105 is 4000€, both including vat.
i'd need comparative reviews before choosing.

CVP have a video review online: YouTube - ‪SONY HXR-NX70‬‏ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mG4tLIOALhY)

My internet connection has died, so I can't see if it's any good...

Mike, Thanks for the link! It worked just fine! Great review and great video from the Sony NX70!

They're here!!

My NX70 is being shipped tomorrow (Wednesday).

Mister Hurd, sir! We'll soon need a home for these babies on the forum.

awesome. I'm gonna get one soon then!

And as long as CH is adding an area for these, how about a dedicated "SR/XR/CX series" area?!?! Since many of us have these and there are probably hundreds of scattered orphan postings around DVi, should be worth a consolidation, and a home of their own??

These took over for the old HC series (now several YEARS past their "prime"... HC 9 was a '09 release?), and while they may be "consumer" cameras, they have found places in many a kit as either B/C cams, or as backup or even "main" cameras... Panasonic 700/900 have their own space, Canon HF/HF-S/HG series have a home... it's just the poor forgotten "little" Sonys that wander the threads homeless...

Mister H, can ye spare a thread?

The Sony HXR-NX70 is also here in the States! Just got a call from my friend that's a Sony Rep. He stated the initial shipments are headed to Sony Dealers that pre-ordered! My unit is expected to arrive early next week! Can't wait to test!

Look forward to hearing how these new toys are! Unless there are major flaws, might be my next "big" camera... features look good, I like some of the upgrades, liking the idea of 60p as I like the progressive "look", but the consumer (CX560) I looked at was so "toy like" I don't think I could deal with it! That plus some mixed reviews on the CX700 make me think the NX70 is a better bet.

I like this camera from what little is out there in video. I have owned the Sony cx560 and the auto focus was awful and the blues were way to vibrant did not look good, had the Sony nx5u great camera but to big/heavy for hand held everyday use for me. I had the panny 700,750,900 loved there outdoor good light 60p but low light not so good. I had the canon xa10 great camera but not 60p then I got the xf100 but hard for me to dial in the picture quality and had to render every clip before viewing on my external hdd or online, double workflow but great camera. I got back my xa10 and love it but very tempted to get the new Sony for the 60p and macro. Wonder if the new Sony is better than the canons or just has some different options but not worth switching. Hard to choose they all have some great features.

I am also interested to see how it is different from the CX700. Of particular interest will be the backfocus performance on zooming. Not good on any of the small Sony's that need to be refocused at each zoom setting.

Ron Evans

What I've been looking for, but haven't seen yet in these cameras, is a control for manual gain. Everything I've seen so far has auto gain that can't be controlled, resulting in excessive noise. Show me manual gain and I'll be very happy!

Canon has manual gain control and the Sony nx70u doesn't? that stinks I thought it had all manual controls either on the camera body or LCD.

The CVP review , referenced earlier in this thread show it to have manual gain control in the menu. As an aside my CX700 or XR500 has less grain in auto than my NX5U.
Ron Evans

Mister Hurd, sir! We'll soon need a home for these babies on the forum.Done (finally).

This "pre-release" thread for the NX70 now draws to its natural conclusion.

Please start new NX70 topics or join others that are already in progress. Thanks all,