I think there are a few similarities between iMovie and FCP X, but I think if you've been using FCP 1-7, you might be better off when ver. X comes out.

By the way, this new Final Cut Pro/Avid commercial should put the debate to rest:

Final Cut Pro VS Avid on Vimeo

heath

I would be amazed if there are really "lots of MAC users running Vegas and Edius on their MAC's"? The ability to run Windows on Macs seems to be mostly used by people wanting to run games. I have seen the odd posting on the Edius forum from such users but seriously who is going to buy & Mac just to run Windows programs?

Well, I'm one. I don't even own any games.

I have FCS3 on the Mac side and Sony Vegas Pro 10 on the windows side, because I have clients who prefer one over the other for various reasons. Apple made it possible for me to do that on one machine. And now that's I've been on Apple hardware for three years, I'm never going back. I have not had to have my computer go into the shop since I switched. Seems like my PCs were always in the shop for something.

Anyway, I admit I prefer to work in Sony Vegas over working in FCS. But this new version looks like it just might change my preference.

Time will tell.

II used to use my Mac for titles with Livetype then go Windows and drop them into my Edius time line.

I've done that, because Vegas' titling is... weak. I've also used motion to create graphics, then put those on a Vegas timeline. It's kind of like Democrats and Republicans getting along.

Anyway, I admit I prefer to work in Sony Vegas over working in FCS. But this new version looks like it just might change my preference.
Charles, I'm the same as you.

I always preferred the Vegas interface to FCP, I found it to be much more streamlined and fast.
I was always able to capture/edit/encode faster on Vegas than FCS. But I greatly preferred OSX to Windows.

As a matter of fact I made the jump to OSX, when Microsoft introduced Vista, which was a huge memory and resource hog.

Now, with the upcoming preview and release of FCPX, I might finally have the OS and NLE workflow that I love to work in. If this is so, then Windows could very well likely go away forever on my MACs.

shipping in June... would be nice to know a date, I would like to be able to plan for a couple of days to test drive it before using it in a real project.

Unfortunately, Apple doesn't offer demos on their software. I think MobileMe and iWork are/were available once as a demo. I'm guessing we'll see a release date towards the end of June, if not June 30.

Heath

shipping in June... would be nice to know a date, I would like to be able to plan for a couple of days to test drive it before using it in a real project.

I think Apple wants a bit of wiggle room since it's still in beta although the beta they showed was actually from February.

I have a hunch that WWDC in early June might bring us a clearer picture since I think Apple will have some focus on Lion an specifically AV foundation which is what FCPX is built on.

Unfortunately, Apple doesn't offer demos on their software.

The other option is to get a little hands-on time at an Apple Store. One advantage is that it's likely someone will be there to answer questions, too.

I can dedicate one edit station to testing, but would have loved to be able to plan it. I am very eager to get my hands on this new version, I have been waiting for a while, my local dealer has made me very attractive offers to switch to Media Composer 5, but I have been using FCP since version 1.5 it would kind of feel like breaking up...

But it is probably best to wait until version X.1 or so to upgrade. With this many new features, I expect a few bugs. It just happened with Telestream Episode which I had been using for years and faithfully upgraded to Version 6 only to find out that there were no audio-only conversion settings, after assuming I am stupid and contacting support they basically told me "oops, you are right - ehhm - our engineers forgot - sorry about that - let us send you the settings..." which they promptly did. (I apologize for getting off topic - but it still baffles me) I have gone back to Episode 5 for a bunch of other reasons.

Anyway I always test upgrades for a few days, run some projects on them that are small enough that I could rebuild on my tested and running system. Guess I will just wait, waited long enough already, a couple of months more won't make such a big difference anymore. I will keep following the forums and see how it works for everyone.

I didn't want to jump in on FCP 1.0 until a big update came down and they fixed any potential bugs, but I had so many problems with Premiere 5.1 and DV, that I switched anyway to FCP 1.0. I had no major problems cutting on it, but I can't remember whether I did or not. I may have had to cut my feature on two different timelines... It's been a while. I do know I "lost" all my internal hard drives on the desktop when I upgraded to OS 8.6, but a friend helped me locate them again.

heath

After fumbling through Final Cut's numerous bugs, audio glitches and generally slow, clunky interface, I've been wondering why the hell they haven't been innovative with such a widely used software.

Well now that innovation is here! So. Excited! I'm mostly excited about the speed, time-saving automation and what is hopefully a lightning responsive interface on capable hardware.

I hope this truly helps bridge the gap for the average person who knows little about video editing, with a $300 price point. May they painlessly see their ideas produced well and uploaded to youtube. Professional editors should not be threatened, as our value and skill lies not in using software, but rather the decisions made before using that software and which buttons to push inside of it.

If anything, Final Cut X may help clear out some demand for event coverage, weddings, basic web videos, etc.

I'll echo that... an editor's talents lie not in his or her NLE of choice, but in their talents.

heath

Here's an interesting thing to note... Apple has hired the inventor of the THX sound system:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/digital-video-industry-news/495446-apple-hires-inventor-thx-sound-system.html#post1645812

As I said in that link, I'm curious if he'll be doing something cool with Logic Studio and Soundtrack Pro, in addition to hardware (better audio from a Mac)?

heath

AppleInsider | Images claim to show Apple's Motion 5, Final Cut Pro X (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/06/08/images_claim_to_show_apples_motion_5_final_cut_pro_x.html)

Alleged new images from Motion 5 and FCP X; plus, the latest rumors point to Color as being part of either Motion 5 or FCP X. I'd love to see everything be all-in-one, but I think we'll at least see two apps, FCP X and Motion 5, with maybe Motion getting Color and FCP getting Soundtrack and a better Share function combining DVD Studio Pro.

heath

AppleInsider | Images claim to show Apple's Motion 5, Final Cut Pro X (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/06/08/images_claim_to_show_apples_motion_5_final_cut_pro_x.html)



Should be out next week, two weeks tops. When Apple leaks these "rumor" things, they're usually pretty close to the release date.

I wouldn't put it past Apple to release it on June 30, but I'd love to see something next week! If this were Twitter, I'd hashtag: #excited.

heath

I've got a newly formatted MacBook Pro and a bottle of champagne for when that day comes.

On the apple website it says that Lion will come out in July. Why would they release a major upgrade to FCS just a few weeks before? would it not make sense to first upgrade the OS and then the application?

I do see your point, Oliver, though I haven't had issues with upgrading my OS after installing a new version of FCP, though I always back up my files before doing any sort of major OS X upgrade. Many, many years ago (early 2000), I upgraded OS 8.5 to 8.6, and one of my Power Mac G3's internal hard drives, installed for editing, disappeared off the desktop. I got it back, but wow, that was nerve-wracking.

Backup before you upgrade.

Heath

ps-Final Cut Studio (v. 3) shipped July 30, 2009, while Snow Leopard shipped August 28, 2009, according to Amazon. However, both FCP 7 and S.L. were more incremental updates, though SL did have some nice under-the-hood improvements.

heath

Lion is a download only release so you will have to install Snow Leopard first anyway. With this in mind, a clean system install is going to be a long process. I guess I will just update my Snow Leopard installation (I receive my new 27" iMac i7 next week) and just update to Lion straight away.

I still hope you can make a bootable Lion DVD so you can skip the Snow Leopard install in the future.

New MacBook Air is rumored to launch wednesday, so maybe Final Cut Pro X will launch along with it. There are also rumors the Mac Pro is about to receive an update... so it wouldn't surprise me if they release Final Cut Pro X with that product (if it launches in June).

Let's wait and see... we've waited so long already, these few days don't matter.

I'm guessing you need Snow Leopard to install Lion because Lion won't be a large file and will be missing certain things, making it easy to install. Just the same as I bet you'll need Final Cut Studio 3 to install FCP X, because of loops, etc.

Heath

Lion is a full 4GB download much the same size as the Snow Leopard. You can apparently create a bootable disk from the download. FCP X is a brand new application there won't be any requirement to already have FCS 3 else what would all the new purchasers who have never had Final Cut before do.

I would have to assume that FCP X will come complete, with no prior FCP Studio 3 installation required or piggybacked.

However, the new software may not come with many loops... so owners of FCP Studio (1,2,3)... will likely have a distinct advantage in available loops.

With the new App store format I can easily see Apple offering ala carte loop packs, similar to Digital Juice.

Lion is a full 4GB download much the same size as the Snow Leopard. You can apparently create a bootable disk from the download. FCP X is a brand new application there won't be any requirement to already have FCS 3 else what would all the new purchasers who have never had Final Cut before do.
Nigel, thanks for the clarification.

James, I remember hearing that you could still install LiveType on your Mac even though Apple dropped it from FCS 3, pushing users to Motion.

heath

More details sneaking out, mostly on color grading. Looks like Color as an app is toast

More Final Cut Pro X Screenshots Leak Ahead of Release - Mac Rumors (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/12/more-final-cut-pro-x-screenshots-leak-ahead-of-release/)

James, I remember hearing that you could still install LiveType on your Mac even though Apple dropped it from FCS 3, pushing users to Motion.

heath

Of course you could. And it's very possible that Final Cut Studio users may still find some functionality in the studio applications even with Final Cut Pro X installed. To exactly what degree, we'll have to wait and see.

More screenshots have been added:
http://twitpic.com/photos/MortGoldman2
No XML import (judging from the screenshots)

Intriguingly the window in the disk burning screenshot is titled "Create a Blu-ray disc from your project." & the drop down menu is selecting from "MATSHITA DVD-R UJ-875 (AVCHD)" OR "Hard drive (Blu-ray)". Presumably without a Blu-ray drive in your Mac it creates an image of a Blu-ray disc.

Intriguingly the window in the disk burning screenshot is titled "Create a Blu-ray disc from your project." & the drop down menu is selecting from "MATSHITA DVD-R UJ-875 (AVCHD)" OR "Hard drive (Blu-ray)". Presumably without a Blu-ray drive in your Mac it creates an image of a Blu-ray disc.

And it looks to be the same incredibly simple menu system that the current version creates. At this point, if they got rid of the ugly black bar at the bottom of the menu screen, I'd be satisfied with this.

Not seeing any "capture" options under import from camera either.

About the when... forgot to mention that AVID is offering Mediacomposer to FCP users for 995 $... until June 17th. Maybe they know that a crossgrade won't be very attractive after FCP comes out on the 18th?
To be honest... I am tempted. There are some freelancers whose work I like who work with AVID and not FCP.

oh - the link: http://www.avid.com/US/specialoffers/fcppromotion

Avid is still such a tough NLE nut to crack, in my opinion, in terms of mastering it. I know guys that float between Avid and FCP, and I have the utmost respect for them.

Heath

I bet all these leaks are coming from training facilities. With a substantial release like this, I'm sure Apple wants training material to be available on day #1.

One thing I really notice is how empty the menus are. Doesn't say anything yet, but does make it look 'dumbed down'.

Rumor: FCP X to debut next week on the Mac App Store?

Final Cut Pro X available on the Mac App Store next week? | 9 to 5 Mac (http://www.9to5mac.com/72008/final-cut-pro-x-available-on-the-app-store-next-week/)

heath

I bet all these leaks are coming from training facilities. With a substantial release like this, I'm sure Apple wants training material to be available on day #1.


One of the posters on one of the rumor sites (AppleInsider, I think) claimed that the complete FCP X manual has been available online "for weeks". I find this difficult to believe, as we would be seeing a lot more info than what's floating around now.

Next week sounds about right. The WWDC announcements will be off the front page of most tech sites by then.

Off topic, slightly: It's amazing how massive shows like WWDC, NAB, etc., can be old news within a week or so.

I still wouldn't be surprised if FCP X debuts on June 30. It's still June, and I think Apple's done something like that in the past.

Heath

June 20th...

The images were hacked off training video producers Ripple Training's servers, and now Apple forced Ripple Training to send out cease-and-desist letters to websites, including AppleInsider:

AppleInsider | Cease and desist threats authenticate recent Final Cut Pro X screenshots [u] (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/06/14/cease_and_desist_threats_authenticate_recent_final_cut_pro_x_screenshots.html)

Also, A.I. claims FCP X will be released within "10 days," which I assume means on or around June 23 or 24.

heath

And I was right.

AppleInsider | Cease and desist threats authenticate recent Final Cut Pro X screenshots [u] (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/06/14/cease_and_desist_threats_authenticate_recent_final_cut_pro_x_screenshots.html)

Ripple Training announced that the screenshots were taken from their last training video.

Let's hope the june 20 releasedate is right. I can't wait!

That's very nice of Apple & Ripple to confirm that the screenshots are genuine.

"FCPX 1.0 "It will not be ready for professional use" says Larry Jordan.

But I don't like this news. Larry is a very respected figure in the FCP scene.

Looks like I'm going to stick to Premiere Pro 5.5 for a while.

The whole quote softens the blow a bit

"Whenever you've got something which is that big a re-write, stuff gets changed, stuff gets left out, stuff gets added later because they can't get it all re-written and I guarantee you that on day one when the dot zero release ships it will not be ready for professional use.
Apple has a very poor track record of perfect dot zero releases. So for those of you saying 'This is without a question the second coming, I'm going to bet the ranch, I'm buying this the day it's released and God help me I'm plunging forward whether it's ready or not.' I want your clients.
I think there is only one company on the planet that could rethink non-linear editing like this, I think it's Apple. It's not ready for prime time. First it's not ready because it isn't shipping, then when it is shipping it's time for us to experiment."

He's right about dot zero releases, and it's hardly an Apple-only problem. And really, does anyone jump into a major project with untest software (even relatively minor version releases like FCP 2 to FCP 3) without seeing how it works and how it affects their workflow?

Still, "stuff gets left out" could be a real problem.

Interestingly enough, the most "bug free" release I've ever personally experienced was....

(hold for drumroll....................)

Final Cut 1.0.

Back in those heady days I remember talking to one of the Apple guys on the initial dev team (might have been the late and very much missed Ralph Fairweather) and they mentioned that the team had been going NUTS stomping copious bugs 24/7 in the days leading to the initial rollout at NAB'99 - and holding their breath during the public presentatons. But the demo went flawlessly and the 1.0 version released shortly thereafter was as close to FLAWLESS software as I've seen since.

(I don't think I crashed even ONCE in my first year of use)

So there's good cause for hope here. These folks DO know how to write clean code. On the other side, they're releasing into a much different ecosystem than that of 1999.

We'll see.

I'm going to buy it and see how it works. I was planning to do a major project in it, but I might start with some very small projects to see how it holds up. iMovie has been out for a while ;)

I think it is presumptuous to make definite statements before FCP X is actually released, let's wait and see. Otherwise rumours start to fly based on mere speculation.

I can see how a ground-up build could be more reliable than an altered and updated version. Apple has the advantage of controlling both the hardware and OS that FCP X will run on, so they should be able to get it pretty stable from v1.0 (please note the use of the words "could" and "should" above).

AppleInsider is running a story claiming that Apple is delaying new hardware released until July so they will ship with OS X.7 (Lion), Even though this is supposed to run on Snow Leopard, I wonder if we might see a similar delay?

FCPX 1.0 "It will not be ready for professional use" says Larry Jordan

But I don't like this news. Larry is a very respected figure in the FCP scene.

Looks like I'm going to stick to Premiere Pro 5.5 for a while.

Hi Floris.

I'm glad that you later decided not to listen to FUD. As you said, you really won't know until the actual, real product is RELEASED and in your hands.

It's amazing how FUD like the Larry Jordan "article" gains a life of its own. To give an analogy, if you had a client approach you about a video you were editing, a few weeks before you were scheduled to hand it over, and ask if it's ready to be broadcast to the masses - just as it is right now - you would tell him to get lost.

If he then jumped all over the internet saying that your videos, "are not in a fit state to be broadcast!" you would probably feel misrepresented. At the very least.

Larry Jordan has just released a statement on his blog entitled "Wiping Egg Off My Face" and can be found here:

Wiping Egg Off My Face – Larry’s Blog (http://www.larryjordan.biz/app_bin/wordpress/archives/1498)

The first thing I noticed on the article you referenced, on fcp.co, was the fact that they omit dates. Their article was undated (as far as I could tell). Then they talk about the "recent meeting" of LAFCPUG where Larry made his comments. But they carefully (or consistently) omit the date.

As Larry clarifies in his statement, this meeting was held only a week after NAB. Two months ago.

I'm finding a great deal of FUD about FCP X. I even received an email (done in the style of a newsletter) from a company (audio-visual retailer) which had the headline of the "great news" about the FCP X announcement. That got my attention, so I kept reading. It started off all glowing about FCP X, but at the end of the first paragraph it introduced the first FUD. Then proceeded in the following paragraphs to absolutely pour on the FUD and then conclude that the only safe course for a professional was to "switch" to Adobe or Avid. And then at the bottom were glossy photos of the Avid and Adobe products with the "Buy Now" click-buttons underneath each. So this "newsletter" giving this "great news" about FCP X turns out to be nothing more than a FUD-filled ad for Adobe and Avid NLEs. But I do understand the position of the retailer who sent me the email. With FCP X being an App Store-only download, they've been cut out of that business. Through no fault of their own. They have to stay in business themselves and pushing Adobe and Avid NLEs is how they have to do it. Fair enough. I just wish they'd been a little more upfront about it.

And this is why I think there'll be even more FUD before the actual FCP X release. An economic necessity for some. And there will be others who just feel compelled to "stir the pot" and cause trouble regardless of the actual facts.

We'll know the facts once it is actually released and in our hands. But until then ...

Able to breathe again...

Last week I suddenly felt like I have to test drive Mediacomposer 5.5 because there were 2 days left to grab the 995 $ Deal... sounds good I thought. They are probably scared of FCP X. Since I know a few freelancers that I like who work with Avid - I decided to give it a look.

So I downloaded and installed the demo. The installation went fine, without any hiccups. When I tried to start the application though - It didn't like it. In fact, even my bluetooth mouse didn't work anymore...
I called the local dealer, asking "wtf..." and he wanted to know what OS I am running. 10.6.7, I replied. Ha! he said, that is the problem. MC 5.5 won't work with that... there is no patch yet. To my question why I can install the software on a OS that is not compatible, he did not have an answer.

So I tried the uninstaller, which made the app disappear from my app folder but still my mouse and even FCP didn't work anymore...

Time machine to the rescue. Now all is well again. Regardless to say - the test made it clear "NO MC for us" I don't need more problems. And I especially don't need software that screws up other applications...

I'm finding a great deal of FUD about FCP X. We try to do our best here on DVi to quash FUD. A big part of this effort involves our outbound links. There are certain web sites whose primary goal is "traffic at any cost" that are the primary FUD factories, and we just don't link to them (meaning, links are removed as they're found). We're not a substitute for Google or other search engines, so if somebody actually wants to find FUD, they have other means outside of DVi to do that. But we're certainly not in the business of driving traffic to those sites. That's why links are removed sometimes.

With the release of FCP X -- it's today, isn't it? -- this particular thread will have reached its natural conclusion.

Update: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/final-cut-suite/497443-fcp-x-now-available-buy-download-app-store.html

Thanks all,