After nearly two months of waiting, the VB head arrived from Germany this morning.
OMG, what a beautiful piece of kit; so well worth the wait.
Setting up the balance on my XF300 was simplicity itself.
I am so impressed with the movements that I can now undertake - it feels as if I was using one of the far more expensive heads that we use at the BBC for the day job.
There is no comparison with my old Manfrotto 503HDV (that might be relegated to the slider...)
If you're reading this Peter (you know who you are!) - my congratulaions to all at Vinten for producing this little marvel.

Welcome to the club, Robin! It is intersting to hear your comparison with the high-end gear you have access to in the day job.

I'm not sure what legs you are using, but I have the Vinten Pozilocs that come with the VB kit, and they are a pleasure. A heavy pleasure, but still a pleasure to use!

I really am almost afraid to say it, but.......................

I told you so!

Damn, I love being able to say that.

And yes, I agree heartilly, Peter and his team pulled a blinder with the VB, well done guys and guyesses.

Now, for their next trick, one that doesn't actually need a tripod..............bated breath!


CS

Being an enthusiastic Vinten Vision 3 owner moving to the Canon XF series of cameras, I stopped by the Vinten area at NAB specifically to look at the Blue. Loved it, of course.

However, Peter Harman, Product Manger at Vinten, and I tried a Canon XF105 on the Blue and found the camera significantly too light to balance properly. So at Peter's suggestion, I'm posting to remind our Vinten friends that they'll want to be developing an accessory to allow these light, new cameras to balance on a Vinten Blue. (Thanks, Peter -- it was a pleasure!).

Geez, Pete.....................

Damn near choked on my corn flakes when I read your post about the cam being too light and Vinten "developing an accessory" to let the light cams work with these heads.

I've been nagging (er, read advising) Peter (he'd probably say "ad nauseum") almost since the VB came out that "someone" needed to do exactly that and bloody pronto too.

It was as inevitable as sunrise that the cameras were gonna keep getting smaller, lighter and cheaper whilst the resolutions and frame rates continued to climb into the heavens and it is simply not possible to design and build heads capable of balancing such insignificant weights/ cog's without the cost going equally skywards (I will ignore, for the moment, the next quantum leap in support design, which is equally as inevitable, if still nowhere to be seen).

As this is an industry wide issue, not just a Vinten one, the answer will probably need to be generic, as I can see no point in every manufacturer trying to reinvent the wheel, so I would reccomend Vitec hand this one off to Manfrotto and let them do what they do so well, make add on gizmo's that fit just about anything.

If anyone wants to get in touch, I have a bomb proof, idiot proof and head make/ type/ counterbalance range independent design which allows just about any camera ever made to CB with just about any head you can name (with one proviso - the head must have a CB range in excess of the camera weight/ cog, not a lot to ask).

It takes into account the problems posed by fixed/ stepped/ changeable spring head designs that make getting correct CB on a par with winning the lottery, neat trick, if I do say so myself.

I'll keep nagging, someone will listen one day.


CS

Hi Pete,

As someone who's about to order a Vision Blue system for use with a JVC GY-HM100E I was interested, and somewhat confused by your post. The data sheet for the XF105 says it's 2.7kg, the VB balance range is 2-5kg. Should it not have balanced ok, or have I missed something here?

David,

I've been researching a new camera, and have looked at the XF100. Isn't it more like 2.7lbs, not kg? Maybe I'm missing something there.

With battery, mic etc., it's probably close enough to the VB's payload range to work pretty well.

Is the Vb well suited for DSLR video use? With the light weights and all?

...have looked at the XF100. Isn't it more like 2.7lbs, not kg?...With battery, mic etc., it's probably close enough to the VB's payload range to work pretty well.If you load the camera up with lots of weighty accessories, you may get it to work. But as Peter Harman anticipated before we tried it, the XF100/105 cameras are too light and with very little moment arm (very central center of gravity) owing to the squat form factor. By actual trial, the stock camera will not balance on a Vinten Vision Blue.

The XF105 without battery is 2.4 pounds and the XF100 is 2.2 pounds. The VB spec sheet lists the capacity as 4.6 to 11.0 lbs @ approx. 55 mm CofG.

There will be legions of small form-factor pro cameras like the XF100/105 out in the field in the years to come, so I have to believe that Vinten will be interested in providing a solution for that growing market.

Robin (or any other vision blue owner)

Is there any initial "sticking" that must be overcome when starting a pan or tilt after head has sat still for awhile?

Hi, Michael................

Nope, none whatsoever. No "sticktion", no "pullback" , no "slow, slow, quick, quick, slow", no anything.

There is, however, always a minimum level of drag which needs to be overcome, unlike some heads where "zero" really means 0, nothing whatsoever.

Although some shooters coming from cheap heads do find this unnerving at first, as the cheaper heads really need that zero to enable anything like a smooth pan/ tilt, it very quickly gets relegated to the "so what" basket with practice and does, indeed, significantly increase the smoothness of movement.

The reason for this "zero" setting is usually to prevent the cheaper tripods from winding up like a rubber band, the VB sticks don't exhibit this tendency so don't require totally zero drag, and the human body is exceedingly bad at keeping a constant speed movement without some restraining force to work against, hence the drag even at "zero" not being "zero".


CS

Seconded - and seconded again!

Also, Vinten gives us the pleasure of "whip pan". Which is not a little bit freaky to begin with - just the ability to have a higher drag, for nice smooth slow shots, then quickly "whip" to another position, without messing round with the drag.

I'm not sure I'm explaining it well, but it is very nice!

Chris,

Thanks for the reply, Chris.

If I am hearing you correctly, There is a drag that one must overcome, but head moves evenly from start to finish. In other words, there is no initial binding to overcome which makes for a jerky start

I currently have a Mattews M25, which for the price is a nice tripod except for the initial pan or tilt. This may help explain where I am coming from.

Thanks again,

Michael

I think you've got it!

There is a drag that one must overcome, but head moves evenly from start to finish. In other words, there is no initial binding to overcome which makes for a jerky start

Exactly.

If you read this post: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/tripod-sticks-heads/70707-inside-bogen-501-a.html

you'll note the presence of a "sticky goo" between two plates that provides the "stick". When panning one of those heads, the "stick" doesn't want to "un - stick" so the initial pressure on the pan bar simply winds up the tripod untill the "stick" lets go, which it does all of a sudden, causing a huge increase in the pan bar speed which lasts untill the user can reduce pan bar pressure.

This initial jerk is a Manfrotto 501/ 503 trademark and I'm suprised it hasn't been patented, along with the inevitable and equally patentable "pull back" at pan end.

It would appear from your comments that Mathews (?) and Manfrotto could get into a patent stoush over this type of behaviour.

In a bid to keep out of such a stoush, Vinten decided, wisely, to forgo such behaviour in it's heads.


CS

Thanks Chris,

It is ordered and shipped....It is scheduled to be delivered on Monday. Thanks again for your input.

So at Peter's suggestion, I'm posting to remind our Vinten friends that they'll want to be developing an accessory to allow these light, new cameras to balance on a Vinten Blue. (Thanks, Peter -- it was a pleasure!).

The Vinten people just need to snag something from their Vitec sibling & adjust it.

I think a Manfrotto 357 that weighs 2-3lbs would work perfectly for this head & any other. Even better would be one that has attachable / detachable .5-1lb weights so you can adjust the adapter to the minimum weight needed.


That, or the other option is to just raise the camera high above the head. The further up the COG goes, the more a light camera will get "heavier" & into the specified weight class of the head. But you might have to raise a XF100 too high for this to be a feasible idea.

My vision blue arrived Monday. All I can say is "Wow!" Nice piece of gear!

I have had my Vinten tripod system for less than 2 weeks, and I am really thrilled about what I can do with my Canon XH A1 when installed on the tripod. I like the fact that I can install the camcorder on the tripod head and do pan and tilts, knowing that the camcorders stayes in the position I want it to stay in. I am using it with a Manfrotto wheele dolly, because it enables me to move the system around fast and effeciently. It is possible to make smooth dolly moves if I work on an even surface. But the dolly is mostly a fast way to move the tripod from one place to another saving setup time.

‪Vinten Vision Blue english voiceover-Youtupe1080Ptest2.mov‬‏ - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QWTpSirEwY)

I have made the following video that shows some of the things I have learned while using The Vinten Vision Blue tripod system. Be aware that it is my first pro level tripod and I am thus doing things i normally would not do like filming while zooming. Being that i normally do not zoom while filming. I am not very good at it and it shows in the video. I know I will get even better recordings when I have learned to use the stability of the tripod and the smoothness of the head to do better close ups. The system and my camcorder is mounted on a Manfrotto 114mv tripod i the latter part of the video. I did not expect it to be totally smooth and it is not, but I am planning on testing it on a smooth surface.

I am very satisfied with the tripod and are considering buying a slider for it, but which one would you recommend.

Best regards and thank you for a very informative site

Hi, Jan..............

Really pleased you are enjoying your new camera support, I'm sure it will make a huge difference to the way you shoot video, keep us posted.


CS

Unfortunately I purchased the Manfrotto 504HD head before you wrote the review on it, and when I read your review it was like you were reading my mind about all of it's "quirks". Needless to say the Manfrotto is on ebay and the Vision Blue is coming in on Thursday. Thanks for your reviews Chris!

The Manfrotto is now a distant memory and I shot 4 football games on Saturday with the Vision Blue and all I can say is WOW. I shoot with an HVX200A and the press box was one of the farthest from the field to date. Last year I was borrowing the Vinten Vision 11 head and carbon fiber sticks from work to shoot on the same field, so I decided to compare the footage, and the Vision Blue is every bit as smooth and predictable as the Vision 11 at full zoom. If you are thinking of buying this setup stop and just buy it.

"I am very satisfied with the tripod and are considering buying a slider for it, but which one would you recommend."

Jan-Digital Juice just released two sliders a 40" and a 64", they seem to be pretty reasonably priced and they have a bunch of useful accessories: SlyderDolly - Portable Linear Tracking Solution :: Digital Juice (http://www.digitaljuice.com/products/products.asp?pid=1900)

Hi Jim,
I am also looking for a smaller sized dolly that I can carry to the field. I looked at your link. Somehow I am not very comfortable at the thought of directly pushing the base.

I am evaluating the Kessler system. It is a bit expensive.

Cheers,
Sabyasachi

"I am very satisfied with the tripod and are considering buying a slider for it, but which one would you recommend."

Jan-Digital Juice just released two sliders a 40" and a 64", they seem to be pretty reasonably priced and they have a bunch of useful accessories: SlyderDolly - Portable Linear Tracking Solution :: Digital Juice (http://www.digitaljuice.com/products/products.asp?pid=1900)

Sabyasachi,

I purchased a Kessler Cine Slider several months ago and I tried using the crank handle, but I could never really get a smooth movement all the way through the slide. I ended up just pushing the trolley by hand anyway. I just received the 64" DJ Slider and it really works nicely. I kept finding that the Cine Slider was coming up just a hair short on a lot of the moves I was doing. That's just my two cents.

How does this head compare to the Sachtler FSB 4 Fluid Head? or the Libec RS-250? Does anyone have direct experience with all of these?

Ooh, think I can field this one.

I have (and have reviewed - see the Articles section, top of each DVinfo page. You'll need to dig, it was over a year ago) the Vision Blue, reviewed the RS - 250 ditto (fairly recently) and have a FSB - 6 here on loan from Sachtler (review not yet written, let alone published, naughty me).

Not much difference between the 4 and the 6, mainly payload related.

To keep this brief, leaving money out of it, sheer engineering magnificence goes to the Sachtler, followed closely by the Vinten, then the Libec.

Putting the money in leaves you with the cost, descending in exactly the same order.

Usability is a very personal thing -

Sachtler - stepped everything, which to me leaves some compromise with tilt drag, but that's just me, everything else is just so slick. Ultimate rigidity depends on your choice of sticks. Full system price depends on your depth of pocket.

Vinten - continuouly variable everything, not as refined as the Sachtler but way out in front of the Libec. System sticks are built like a brick outhouse. Great all round package, impossible to beat for the money.

Libec - continuously variable counterbalance (good) but only 2 stage stepped drag (not so good). Issues with the sticks. Package is extremely good value but you get what you pay for and it's the cheapest of the three.

I think that pretty well nails it, hope I haven't forgotten anything.


CS

Thanks! I appreciate you sharing your experience.

I appreciate you sharing your experience.

Hmm, not sure whether that means I answered your question or you thought it was a complete load of ba#ls.

Like to be a bit more forthcoming; specific, even?

I don't bite (er, often), really!


CS

Sorry. Based on your summary, I went with the Vinten. I haven't done any actual production work with it (buried with still jobs) but I like what I see from some casual tests.

Thanks again for the help.