Howdy,

Recently, I watched a video in HiDef. Mostly shots of architecture. At the end of each pan or tilt there was a 2+ second pause of so, before the next shot.. The pan/tilt was absolutely smooth and the pause rock sold. Not any jitter in the slightest. Absolutely perfect. Now when I try to copy I don't acheive anywhere near the same results. My tripod while not high end is a Libec. So, my question is: Can this rock solid pause be acheived in post, say by copying the last solid frame over and over. Similarily, can the pan/tilt be smoothed out in post?

Thanks, in advance.

Gary

How long was the lens? How long is your lens? That's a major variable.

Of course you can repeat a frame. What NLE are you using?

Wiggly pan endings can come from a tripod's "windup". Just because it's a Libec doesn't mean it's good.

There's a video filter in FCP for jiggly shots but it can have side effects. No magic push-a-button fix for badly shot footage tho.....

Try to avoid any background activity going on (people walking, trees swaying.) or the freeze frame will be obvious.

wz

Okay, I have a long lens. It's a Canon 20x. But I thought the continuous balance system would counteract this extended weight?

My editing system is Vegas.

So, far I have not been able to eliminate some creep, backlash, or driftback(call it what you will). There is just a tiny bit. Reviews stated that there was no backlash at all. It's a Libec RS model.

Maybe I don't understand what to expect in terms of backlash. When I tilt down and then hold the shot without letting go of the handle it is fairly solid. And I say fairly solid because it seems just a little jitter enters in.

If I do the same tilt and then let go of the pan handle there is more. Is this the long lens, or misleading review? Or is it just that I'm so new I just need a lot of practice?

What is the most effective way to hold or let go at the end of the pan/tilt?

Hi, Gary..............

Which RS model do you have, as a matter of interest?

Have you read my review of the RS 250 here on DVinfo (in the Articles section, top of every page)?

I can assure you that if it's an RS 250, the tripod is not that stable at it's very best (spreader fully extended), at it's worst (spreader in full retract) it's diabolical.

Getting a clean, stable, pan end is practically impossible with the Canon 20X (the unit I used to test the rig), so it isn't you, it's the support.

Untill/ unless Libec release a modified spreader/ spreaders for the entire RS series, they are all going to be afflicted with these rediculously high leg angles that make a mockery of the fine engineering they put into the units themselves.

Sell it and buy a Vision Blue, problem solved.


CS

Hi Chris, okay B & H has agreed to take back the Libec, in exhange for a Vison blue.

Now my problem is to decide which model. I'm sure that someday I will be moving to HD, but I know nothing of the weight of these cameras.

From their website it seems that the least expensive model has a payload of 11 pounds, but considerable less expensive than the next model up.

The type of filming I would be doing will be documentaries. Can you make a recommendation on which model would be most suitable.

Thanks in advance, Gary.

B & H service at it's best, as usual.

As for the VB, well, a VB is a VB, period. The next model up is the Vision 3 AS.

If that 20X Canon lens is attached to a Xl 2 (struggling to think what else it could be if it's Canon & SD, do say if it's something more exotic, this advice may be incorrect otherwise), the VB is more than adequate and unless you've loaded your rig with all sorts of extra bells and whistles, the CB spring in the 3 AS will be too powerfull for it.

The standard VB rig: VB head, 2 stage Pozi - Loc sticks with mid level spreader and boots and case is a very tidy package and will suit your current SD Canon perfectly and is fine for the next step XH series and up as well.

Note that if your next step up is to something a lot more upmarket/ shoulder mount, the VB is going to be out gunned in very short order, but there really isn't much point buying now for the system you might have down the track.

Enjoy.


CS

Thanks again Chris, I really appreciate the help.

Cheers,

Gary

BTW: It was the Libec RS 250

Gary...............

Will you please, please, recount (here) your experience with the VB after a bit of "play time".

There are very few people who have had experience of both the RS 250 and the VB, me being one of the few exceptions.

Having someone else recount their experience will be a huge help to those searching DVinfo for answers, and give another users experience first hand as to the differences.

We're also interested in how the original problem that sparked this thread has been solved (or otherwise).

Also, did you find my review usefull and was it relatively easy to find, as it's a question that may need addressing.

Hope you can find the time for all of the above.

Enjoy the VB and happy shooting!


CS

No problem. It may take about a month, though, as I'm shipping right across the continent, and I won't be receiving VB for a few weeks.

But I will definetly post.

Chris,

Your review on the tripods is by far the most comprehensive review on any tripod comparison that I have read. And I read lots of reviews. It is easy to find, and is first rate. I only wish I had read it before making my purchase decision on the Libec, but it was a timing issue as it was just coming out when I was signing the check for the Libec.

Thanks for all your hard work.

Gary

Okay, I finally received the VB. Straight out of the box, it comes packed it its carrying bag.

This bag is far superior than either the Libec or Manfrotto 504 HD bags. The bag has sewn in padding all around and offers serious protection to the Tripod. The Libec and Manfrotto's bags are mere coverings to assist with carrying but offer no protection whatsoever from threat of impact.

The bag also has two clear vinyl pouches for holding the tripod and head manuals. The manuals themselves are also quite superior to the Libec or Manfrotto manuals, in term of layout, description ot the features, writing etc. The manuals have coil ring binders as well, making them much stronger.

Upon assembly, the unit is definitely heavier, but just looking at it you get the impression of a much more solid looking piece of equipment compared to the Libec or Manfrotto offering.

The head has an illuminated level, which the Libec didn't have, and I believe the Manfrotto didn't either.

The head has continuous drag for both tilt and pan unlike the Libec which has only two.

The unit has a continous balancing system similar to the Libec. I

Performance review coming....

...we know it's good!... :-)

Yes, I'm responding to Chris's request that I do a review as I have handled both the Libec and now VB. I'm still curious to see whether it eliminates the issue as discussed in this thread.

Go for it Gary, ignore Robin (on this rare occasion) and tell it how it is.

The "Good, the Bad and the Ugly".

There's nothing like a new owner to find every wart on a system, and nothings perfect.

Robin is correct, we know (as in, I know the world is a sphere, because I keep getting told and see the photos, but what if it's a setup?) it's good, but we're interested in what YOU think of it, that's the point, and we value your input on this.

You're now a VB owner, a special class of camera support buyer, give us your take, especially as it compares to the Libec.

Every bit helps.


CS

I second that.

Robin is correct, we know (as in, I know the world is a sphere, because I keep getting told and see the photos, but what if it's a setup?)


CS

LOL

But if the Multiverse theory is correct, somewhere out there(?) exists a universe where Manfrotto is tops...
which is where Quantum Mechanics "probably" breaks down...

Ah, but I don't live there, thank God, but here, where sanity, or what passes for it (moveable feast) prevailes.

Or, does it?

Hmm, maybe I better rethink my entire existance.

It's a funny old world.


CS

Howdy, okay I'll leave it to you to figure out which universe you guys are in. As for me, I'm on earth and scratching my head trying to understand why I'm still getting rebound at the end of my tilts and pans.

I've tried every which way to stop it. I have been able to reduce it by backing off on the continuous balance as I had it too tight, and that helped alot. And putting more drag on has helped, but it's still noticeable. I have been able to reduce it more by practice, but if I just take my hand off the handle after a tilt I get alot. And to make it worse, the image is close ie. within 10 feet of the camera, meaning that if the image was at a distance from the camera, it would be more noticeable.

I have had a comment that the lens might be a factor as the lens is the Canon 20x which is very long, and maybe has an impact on the center of gravity, or whatever.

As far as a review of this tripod, I have had virtually no experience with tripods, but my impression is that it is a much more sold platform than the Libec RS 250, or Manfrotto 504 Hd. I especially like the continuous drag on both the tilt and pan. And the mid spreader can be finely adjusted as well which is an additional feature.

And the head moves very, very smoothly. I don't have the Libec at my finger tips to make a more credible comparison, but I think it feels more silky. The pans and tilts, are definetly very, very smooth.

Earth out.

Gary, I have to ask the question just in case, so don't take offence if I'm off mark here, but you don't have the optical image stabiliser switched in do you? It can give effects just like you describe.
...just a thought

Gulp, yeah. Let me try with it off.

Hi Robin,

Hey, thanks so much! What a difference! I never would have thought that the image stabilization would have an impact at all. I knew that it did on auto focus and zooming, but I never, ever, thought it would have an impact on panning, and tilting. I'm thrilled!

So, three tripods later here we are. Quite possibly the Libec RS 250 would have been adequate as well, if I had known about the stabilizer. But I'm happy, this is clearly the better machine.

Cheers!

gary

Glad to have solved the problem Gary. It's something that's easily overlooked, but can have undesirable results!

Bloody good call there, Robin.

"I'm happy, this is clearly the better machine."

Think we can call that a win - win all round.

DVinfo triumphs again!


CS

Let's not omit the beginning of the quote Chris:

"Quite possibly the Libec RS 250 would have been adequate as well, if I had known about the stabilizer..."

But, then to sum it up...
"I'm happy, this is clearly the better machine."
Fair is fair even if Vinten if totally kicking butt here. I'm sure (I do hope) the other companies are taking notes on how to improve their products given this excellent extensive reporting job by Mr Soucy, otherwise I'm definitly leaning toward the 'blue' side as well.
Aloha, I look forward to more...
Z

Phew, this was a long one wasnt it. Anyway, glad to hear it all ended well. Just to add weight to the findings, when we launched Vision AS, i got called into a major broadcaster who had purchased a large number of Vision 3AS systems for their fly away news crews. They too were complaining of springback. I knew it probably wasnt an issue with the tripod or head, but had to go through the motions in order to rule it out just in case. Fact was that they had all been given new cameras too and guess what, image stabilisation was switched on and when they moved to frame their shot, the image drifted slightly. With the stabilisation switched off, it was rock solid. It happens.

Hi all. Hope you are all well and creating beautiful images.

I had another customer just a few days ago who complained that his new Vision blue system showed signs of drift back once he had stopped panning. After a bit of detective work, we came to the conclusion that it was the image stabilisation that caused this effect. We tested it with image stabilisation off and hey presto, when he stopped panning, his framing remained rock solid.

I’d recommend that it’s switched off when you are working on a tripod.