hi,

I've been trying to buy a revolver pistol for a film i'm making, but in the UK now there's laws against buying blank firing guns. You can still buy them if you have a legit reason....however the guns for sale are very few and far between....

Since i've been having trouble finding one. I mostly will have to settle on a replica pistol, which i wasnt keen on, but anyway.
How hard is it, to put a fake flash on the gun, when it fires? Will my medicore editing skills be able enough for this task

(p.s. If anyone knows where i can buy a revolver for under 100 in the UK, please let me know!)

thanks
Andy

Check video copilots site, they have lots or prekeyed actions shots that may help:

VIDEO COPILOT | After Effects Tutorials, Plug-ins and Stock Footage for Post Production Professionals (http://www.videocopilot.net/products/action2/)

We use Particle Illusion for gun flashes. They last for a single frame of video.

I'll check those out, do you need to direct your actors in any specific way. Since the replica gun will not 'fire' as such?
Thanks again
Andy

I've been trying to buy a revolver pistol for a film i'm making, but in the UK now there's laws against buying blank firing guns.

ANY firearm on a set should be accompanied by a licensed armourer.

Period.

Too much is at stake, even with airsoft or blank capable firearms.

I put my money where my mouth is and turned down a shoot a couple of weeks ago as there would be no armourer on set. Even on pro sets, stuff goes wrong. Just ask Brandon Lee's family and the crew that were working that day...

do you need to direct your actors in any specific way...?

Make sure that they don't say, "Pyew! Pyew!" when they pull the trigger. Tommy Lee Jones has a habit of doing it. Some of his outtakes are hilarious.

The only thing they need to do is recoil. Good marksmen ease into the trigger gently so they are smooth before the shot. They aren't immune from recoil though. The more skilled and serious the shooter, the less motion. The less skilled and more comical, the more uncontrolled motion.

ANY firearm on a set should be accompanied by a licensed armourer.


Yes, on a couple of short films I directed we had guns firing in vision and we had an armourer. Something about guns make people act in a crazy way, so you do need that person to keep control of the weapons. As mentioned, even blanks can be dangerous if fired, Brandon Lee was killed by a "blank" round on "the Crow" due to a fatal combination with home brew dummy rounds that still had the primers fitted, which some how got fired, lodging the bullet in the barrel. Also, you also need to protect cast and camera crew from the wadding.

You could check out on a local armourer and see if they're willing to do a deal for your film.

A starting pistol might be possibility, although the flash comes out the top, rather than the front of the barrel. Also inform the police, otherwise you may have them arriving thinking there's an armed robbery in progress.

Fake guns and how to get your actors to use fake guns

YouTube - ‪freddiew2's Channel‬‏ (http://www.youtube.com/user/freddiew2#p/u/13/Kelqxq_mxA0)

How to add the effects

YouTube - ‪freddiew2's Channel‬‏ (http://www.youtube.com/user/freddiew2#p/u/70/SsViAvVYoMQ)

We've always used plastic firearms and airsoft guns that are disabled.

When filming outdoors, it's always good to let the cops know what you are doing. Your gun might be fake and unloaded, but theirs aren't!

I've done a shoot before with a deact shotgun, so i know the score with informing the local plod (police). I do have a very experienced shooter who helps me as and when i need it.

The shotgun i used was not intended to fire in the film, so ive never done the effect before. It was only meant to 'scare' the characters victim.
thank for the helpful tips though. ;-)

I'll check those links out. Thanks again.

If you have access to Adobe After Effects, it can be done there with a motion-linked flash effect. There is an excellent tutorial somewhere on the internet --- I apologize that I can not find it now to link to it --- showing exactly how this is accomplished with gunfire effects. A little more googling would turn it up...

Edit: this is not the tutorial I remember (it's been a couple of years) but one you might find useful: http://www.videocopilot.net/tutorials/simulated_lighting/

And remember that real pistols don't have a very dramatic flash at all - in years of shooting in pistol league I frankly never noticed any significant flashes. Of course we didn't use ultra short barreled pistols for target shooting.

Place I used to work decades ago tested 5 inch and larger naval rifles - up to 16 inch diameter. These produced marvelous flashes indeed.

Modern "propellants" (gunpowders) are specifically formulated to reduce or even prevent significant flash "signature". This is especially true of most "duty" loads for law enforcement and defensive personal protection loads for legal licensed/permitted "civilians".

Common practice loads still show some muzzle flash at night but none in the daytime.

Well put. Key point I think is that all the flashing we see in the movies is just for visual effect - it isn't real by any means.

Watched "Heat" last night, huge amounts of visual flashes during the bank robbery fire fight. Much wild shooting by both sides, which would've resulted in huge casualties amongst passers by and the guns would've have long run out ammo. Definitely for the effect rather than any reality.

Interestingly, "Falling Down", which was on the previous night, was much more realistic in its LA gang drive past shooting.

Airsoft is the easiest way to go as they are non lethal toys that can look quite convincing as they are scale replicas of the real weapons - they fire plastic bb's. Obviously you want to make sure that there are no bb's on set though, as they can hurt (and can be dangerous if shot in the eye/face).

Some airsoft toys have blowback effects (so the pistol slides, or the machine guns bolt moves), which can look very realistic when you add in some flashes later on in post. There is a program called FXHome which allows you to use hundreds of weapon flashes (along with various simple masking tools) - very easy to use and not expensive.

The only part that is missing is the ejected brass casings (again these can be done in post), or use your imagination in editing, or use a shaky cam technique, or even just filming a closeup of someone throwing some empty brass casings on the ground intercut with the rest of the scene can work.

Airsoft are still FAR from safe as internal components CAN get rattled loose and become projectiles.

I stand by my initial statement.

Shaun, I agree that armorers ought to be used when any weapons are on set, but in truth airsoft replicas are toys, and can be bought over the counter in regular shops without any sort of license.

The velocity of the projectiles is quite slow, and even in the unlikely event that any loose parts that might somehow rattle into the barrel I doubt that there would be enough velocity to shoot it any great distance. Airsoft toys are more likely to jam when anything gets into the barrel.

That said you should use some care when using them; creative editing would allow you to never actually fire an airsoft toy in the direction of any actor (and here the basic rules of firearms would come into play).

Common sense goes a long way. With any number of heavy lights, electrical cables etc, there are a great number of more lethal objects on a film set than airsoft toys.

That said you should use some care when using them; creative editing would allow you to never actually fire an airsoft toy in the direction of any actor (and here the basic rules of firearms would come into play).

ABSOLUTELY! Couldn't agree more.

My only problem is first time/new directors STILL seem to think you need to point anything gun-like DIRECTLY at people to "sell" it onscreen.

And who is going to impart the basic rules of firearms to all involved on set?

I don't DISAGREE with you... I just see where this ALL falls apart and someone gets hurt. JUST to make a "realistic" indie film.

LOUSY payoff...