I'm very disapointed by the new FCP X (and I'm not alone). So I'm thinking about migrating on Production Premium CS 5.5 this fall, but always on a Mac.
Does anyone has already left FCP for Premiere? What do you think, have you regrets? Is CS 5.5 reliable on a Mac or would it be better on a PC? Is there already an annoucement date for the 6th version?
Any advices would be appreciated.
Thanks!

You're not alone. Just downloaded the Production Premium trial overnight. I'm also looking for decent training materials - particularly regularly used keys.

Also, I wonder how to add LUT plugins to convert the 5D Technicolor footage I have for a particular project. I know how to do this in FCP but if I could do this quickly in PP then I'd be set for the edit in July. Anyone?

We've been running Mac and PC Premiere for past three years or so, and my impression is that Windows version is still much more robust, than it's Apple counterpart. Also, there used to be a bug in Encore and Snow Leopard that made it impossible to create sensible DVDs which had 16:9 menus. I don't know if it was fixed in CS5.5 (still running on CS5), but it's something to be aware of. Apart from that, CS5 is very stable, and very versatile both for SD and HD, especially in comparison to CS3.

We have FCP installed alongside Premiere, but we used it only perhaps for 2 or 3 projects. While it is more robust than Premiere in DV, we found its audio features seriously lacking, requiring us to move sound to Soundtrack Pro, and hindering our project workflow considerably.

Hi Bart,

I'm fairly familiar with the FCP>STP workflow. Have you found most of the features you use in PP?

Right now, I'm trying to work out where to locate the Magic Bullet LUT buddy I just installed. Anyone know where it would pop up? I'd like to apply it to a clip.

Thank you Bart for this very interesting feedback!

Generally Premiere has 90% of the sound tools you'll need: clip effects, transitions etc. is a standard. Additionally you have a pretty extensive multitrack support: track pan/volume (keyframeable), sliders, track effects (up to 5) and sends (up to 5 as well), automation, subtracks. You get all important effects like eq, high- and lowpass filters, compressor, limiter, expander, reverb, pitch and a few others in the package.

Add to this mono/stereo/5.1 mixing, and I think really there is more than enough for most of the projects that one will ever encounter with the exception of very sophisticated ones which are better handed to the sound editor anyway, and you can do it either as an export to Audition or OMF.

The effects are VST plugins, and you can use the default ones, which are good enough for most cases, but you can also use other VST plugins to extend Premiere, which is really excellent way to expand the software.

There are some features that could make it better, like phase monitoring or RMS metering for example (so far there's only simple audio meter), overdrive detection, live keyframing during playback. Perhaps some better noise removal tools as well. But apart from that, you essentially get all the multitrack option in you video editor, which means that you don't have to lock the picture before working on audio. It helped us tremendously.

The only thing that I was missing was a good migration to Color, but since it seems that Apple did kill this product anyway, I guess it's a moot point.

I made the jump recently and I'm very happy with Premiere. There are some things it does better than FCP, some couple of things it leaves out - but largely they are similar. I switched the hot keys to the FCP set and I can barely tell I'm in another software.

The things I like about it better:

MUCH better audio handling. You can do track effects and submixes. Big boon.

MUCH better in-program color correction, including curves.

MUCH better handling of native DSLR video.

MUCH better integration with the Adobe suite, obviously.. AE and PS.

What do you NOT like about Premiere, then? Thinking about this myself, though no plans to move to anything anytime soon as FCP6 is still doing fine for me at the moment.

What do you guys mean by "more robust on PC than Mac"? More features? Runs better?

Coming from FCP, how intuitive do you find it? Do you need a guidebook/the manual often or can you figure out how to do things on your own?

For me what I don't like about Premiere is all small stuff... I liked in FCP that I could right click on a cut to add the default transition... I liked the ability of the timeline to autoconform to the clip (but I like Premiere's ability to handle multiple formats on one timeline beter)... It's small stuff. I haven't spent enough time in Premiere to find anything that makes me think I'd rather be working in FCP.

Sometimes it's the small things that make one NLE preferable to another for someone. . .zooming the timeline with the mousewheel, dragging the corner of a clip to fade it, etc.

Didn't I just read that Premiere is now a monthly paid thing? As in, instead of buying it for $800 and then not paying anything until an upgrade, you now pay a monthly fee?

Interesting... hadn't head of that. You can still buy it the old way, but you can also subscribe:

Buying guide | Adobe Creative Suite 5.5 Production Premium (http://www.adobe.com/products/creativesuite/production/buying-guide.displayTab3.html)

Thanks Bart, Barry. Bart, I'm also interested in hearing what you mean about Pr being more stable on a PC. What do you mean by this?

I ask because folk around me think me crazy but I'm wondering about the viability of my Mac Pro. I love it, but it can't make much money for Apple. And now that they've, apparently, killed off their major Pro application, they have little reason to make them anymore. Add to this the lack of compatibility with 3rd party hardware that 'X-FCP' presents and I foresee certain hardware manufacturers passing on the Apple platform for the time being - hastening the demise of the Mac Pro. I give it 2 years, tops. I'm sure Apple would prefer me to use X-FCP on an iPad anyway but I'd rather have a decent PC again - if necessary. Curious about what you think.

Ah, thanks. I downloade the trial to the latest version. I wlll play.

Justin - I'm running it on my Macbook Pro and my Mac Pro workstation... both are great.

Barry, great to hear. A question. When one adds in third party video filter plugins, into which folder do they go? I've added Red Giant's free Colorista and LUT buddy. Or do these only work with the full program?

Cheers.

I have not idea, sorry.

When one adds in third party video filter plugins, into which folder do they go? I've added Red Giant's free Colorista and LUT buddy.
You will find them in the Video Effects folder in the Effects panel. (Tip: If you know the name, just type it in the search field and it will be there for you! :) )

There is a bunch of things that can certainly be improved in Premiere. What I think is better in FCP is the ability to summon many views of a project. In Premiere you are limited to a single reference monitor (plus standard viewer), so your comparison options in color correction are not that great. There's also one huge bummer: the scopes that you can invoke are not live, and lack typical histogram (especially on Mac, more later).

In terms of Color correction, Premiere could use something akin to Avid's layer and CC mode. Right now it is all effects, and it can be tiresome sometimes. Three-way CC, and general look of CC color wheels is a little bit different than what you are used to with FCP/Avid, and the tools could be much more streamlined. They lack for example the "copy to next" icon that FCP has, you have to use manual copy/paste for that. Secondaries are also quite troublesome. There are plugins for that (Colorista for example) but still.

I think there are less basic effects in PPro, than in FCP, and you can't for example apply a transition to multiple clips on the timeline or create a transition template to apply it. Also there is only a single apply default transition shortcut key, which really sometimes slows down editing process. The length of the default transition is for reason unknown set in the preferences.

Speed ramping in FCP 7 is something that I would love to see in Premiere, as well as Vegas-style or even Soundtrack Pro style manipulation of audio crossfades, but I'm not really counting on the last one to come to pass soon, since it would require important interface rewrite.

Timeline operations on Premiere are totally customizable with keys, all tools are available either straight with a keypress or with a modifier key in the standard mode, and IMHO leave nothing to be desired except that the playback does continue while you make changes. Background rendering would be nice addition as well.

All these however are a minor nuisance in comparison to other problems of other editors that I had experience with (FCP, a little Avid, a little Edius).

Now, Premiere on Mac - it is not necessarily less stable, it is just less responsive in terms of interface. On PC you get instant response, in Mac, there is a very slight but noticeable lag for some things. It might be because we're running it on Mac 1,1 but it is a general impression that I do keep on having. I hope others can confirm or not my experience.

There is one effect that is seriously crippled on Mac, and it is the basic levels command. On PC you get the histogram picture and controls, while on Mac you only get separate controls for gamma and such. It makes the levels tool almost useless for me on the Mac, and I resort to Fast Color Corrector that has similar controls as sliders, and I am still missing the proper histogram display.

Should one buy a PC or Mac - this is exactly the question that we are asking ourselves now. We have an outside editor who works in FCP, and for this reason we're keeping FCP to finish her projects or to make a seamless transition to Premiere (XML import could be much improved, because it really does not resolve some important basic stuff like additive dissolve). After what I read on FCP X however I will be pushing for the total switch to Premiere though, because there is no way that the new FCP is going to fit into our workflow at all.

We're waiting for the supposed new Mac Pros to be presented in August (that's the rumor that I heard, but I can't remember where) to keep all our options open, but if Apple doesn't show anything, we'll be seriously considering PC only workflow - cheaper, more efficient, more robust, and much less hassle.

One last thing about the misunderstandings on Adobe pricing policy. There are four ways you can obtain the software, and you can choose between them, you are not limited to any:

1. Pay full price for the whole thing, then pay for the upgrades, ie. the traditional way.
2. Get educational licence, pay much less (and I mean *much*).
3. Subscribe for twelve months for 5% of the price, billed monthly.
4. Subscribe for any given month for 7.5% of the price, no obligations at all.

The points 3 and 4 are directed towards startups and small business that do not have money to shell out at the beginning for the software, and is not certain about future revenues.

IMHO this is a very flexible policy that allows people to choose what tools they use and when.

Good to know. As for Mac v PC, I switched TO a mac 'cause I was curious about the stability/ease of use etc. after I found out my Dell was ailing, and FCP seemed like the natural NLE to go with since I had used it before.

I"m somewhat locked in now as I do like those things about the Mac (stuff just working, etc.), and I have this $500 Apogee audio interface that ONLY works with macs. So there's that. Plus other software I've bought for the Mac and wouldn't want to rebuy.

Thanks again, Bart and Barry, for these precious comments.

]The points 3 and 4 are directed towards startups and small business that do not have money to shell out at the beginning for the software, and is not certain about future revenues.

IMHO this is a very flexible policy that allows people to choose what tools they use and when.To be honest, I hadn't thought about it from that perspective, but true. These options might also be useful when there is a temporary surge in the number of seats required.

One other point about the subscriptions is that they include not just updates, but any and all version upgrades that occur during the term of the subscription. Adobe really is giving people a lot of options.

Now, Premiere on Mac - it is not necessarily less stable, it is just less responsive in terms of interface. On PC you get instant response, in Mac, there is a very slight but noticeable lag for some things. It might be because we're running it on Mac 1,1 but it is a general impression that I do keep on having. I hope others can confirm or not my experience.



Bart, it would be good if you'f post your experiences with regard to the lag in this thread on the Adobe forums:
Adobe Forums: PPro CS5 GUI on mac really jerky (http://forums.adobe.com/thread/826437?tstart=0)

It doesn't seem to be affecting all mac users, but there are a number of us who are seeing it.

There is a bunch of things that can certainly be improved in Premiere. What I think is better in FCP is the ability to summon many views of a project. In Premiere you are limited to a single reference monitor (plus standard viewer), so your comparison options in color correction are not that great. There's also one huge bummer: the scopes that you can invoke are not live, and lack typical histogram (especially on Mac, more later).

In terms of Color correction, Premiere could use something akin to Avid's layer and CC mode. Right now it is all effects, and it can be tiresome sometimes. Three-way CC, and general look of CC color wheels is a little bit different than what you are used to with FCP/Avid, and the tools could be much more streamlined. They lack for example the "copy to next" icon that FCP has, you have to use manual copy/paste for that. Secondaries are also quite troublesome. There are plugins for that (Colorista for example) but still.

I think there are less basic effects in PPro, than in FCP, and you can't for example apply a transition to multiple clips on the timeline or create a transition template to apply it. Also there is only a single apply default transition shortcut key, which really sometimes slows down editing process. The length of the default transition is for reason unknown set in the preferences.

Speed ramping in FCP 7 is something that I would love to see in Premiere, as well as Vegas-style or even Soundtrack Pro style manipulation of audio crossfades, but I'm not really counting on the last one to come to pass soon, since it would require important interface rewrite.

Timeline operations on Premiere are totally customizable with keys, all tools are available either straight with a keypress or with a modifier key in the standard mode, and IMHO leave nothing to be desired except that the playback does continue while you make changes. Background rendering would be nice addition as well.

All these however are a minor nuisance in comparison to other problems of other editors that I had experience with (FCP, a little Avid, a little Edius).

Now, Premiere on Mac - it is not necessarily less stable, it is just less responsive in terms of interface. On PC you get instant response, in Mac, there is a very slight but noticeable lag for some things. It might be because we're running it on Mac 1,1 but it is a general impression that I do keep on having. I hope others can confirm or not my experience.

There is one effect that is seriously crippled on Mac, and it is the basic levels command. On PC you get the histogram picture and controls, while on Mac you only get separate controls for gamma and such. It makes the levels tool almost useless for me on the Mac, and I resort to Fast Color Corrector that has similar controls as sliders, and I am still missing the proper histogram display.

Should one buy a PC or Mac - this is exactly the question that we are asking ourselves now. We have an outside editor who works in FCP, and for this reason we're keeping FCP to finish her projects or to make a seamless transition to Premiere (XML import could be much improved, because it really does not resolve some important basic stuff like additive dissolve). After what I read on FCP X however I will be pushing for the total switch to Premiere though, because there is no way that the new FCP is going to fit into our workflow at all.

We're waiting for the supposed new Mac Pros to be presented in August (that's the rumor that I heard, but I can't remember where) to keep all our options open, but if Apple doesn't show anything, we'll be seriously considering PC only workflow - cheaper, more efficient, more robust, and much less hassle.

Hi Bart,

I'd like to clarify some of the issues you mentioned.

1) All Scopes are live within the Program Monitor (I just checked). There is another window you can open, the Reference Monitor, which I always have open for Scopes. This monitor is not live but updates immediately after stopping playback. You can have the Reference Monitor 'ganged' to the Program Monitor so it moves along with it or you can move the timeline independent of the Program Monitor by deselecting the 'gang to...'.

2) For CC and grading, Premiere is certainly capable but anything beyond simple CC'ing, I go into AE.

3) The Default Transition can be changed and its default length can be changed as well by right-clicking on the Effects tab or you can assign a shortcut to it. Same goes for the default audio transition. Also, you can select several clips and 'Apply Default Transitions to Selection' under the Sequence button or setup a shortcut key.

4) When you say that background rendering would be nice, what exactly do you mean? I guess that FCP requires a lot of rendering of effects and clips so you would render that in the background while being able to keep working. Is that correct? Personally, I rarely have too many effects on a clip that the hardware acceleration and my i7 CPU cannot handle playing live.

Personally, the speed of the Adobe workflow is what keeps me buying more seats rather than Media Composer as I am all PC for editing. The ability to seamlessly go into AE and have the AE comps immediately show in Premiere is such a time saver and it allows me to be more creative.

Something most people don't comment on is their Titling tools, and from what I have heard, Premiere is light years better than FCP.

As for PC vs Mac: I would look at what software you currently need and might need in the future in addition to which components you need to stuff inside. I prefer PC because Apple decided to downgrade its Mac Pro by limiting the number of ram slots to 8 (dual-CPU) and 4 (single CPU) whereas every other manufacturer has at least 12 for dual-CPU and 6 for single CPU. Also, you only get 4 PCIe slots in a Mac Pro whereas the norm is 7 slots in a PC (although the length and bandwidth varies between models). I have a 12-core HP Z800 which has 6 PCIe slots and one PCI slot, and every slot is full except the PCI; although, I use that empty slot for my raid card's battery backup. I couldn't do all of this with a Mac Pro because it lacks the PCIe slots. I can't say enough good things about my HP Z800. At least in the US, you can get 25% off the price on HP's business PCs (Z200, Z400, Z600, Z800). All you do is configure your PC on their site, submit it to a salesperson, and then someone will email you a quote. As with Dell, Apple, HP and others, order ram and hard drives from somewhere else due to price gouging.

1) All Scopes are live within the Program Monitor (I just checked). There is another window you can open, the Reference Monitor, which I always have open for Scopes. This monitor is not live but updates immediately after stopping playback. You can have the Reference Monitor 'ganged' to the Program Monitor so it moves along with it or you can move the timeline independent of the Program Monitor by deselecting the 'gang to...'.

This is exactly what I wrote, you're still limited to one viewer + reference monitor (which I also always run with scopes). You can be creative and open a sequence in source monitor as well (via ctrl+click), but still, the scopes do not update during playback (FCP ones do, and I really wish that Premiere would change it as well), and for CC reference it is often still not enough.


2) For CC and grading, Premiere is certainly capable but anything beyond simple CC'ing, I go into AE.


Of course. But when I have 60 minutes of feature, going to AE for color correction is a PITA, especially since AE unfortunately disregards CC effects that I apply in Premiere.


3) The Default Transition can be changed and its default length can be changed as well by right-clicking on the Effects tab or you can assign a shortcut to it. Same goes for the default audio transition. Also, you can select several clips and 'Apply Default Transitions to Selection' under the Sequence button or setup a shortcut key.


I forgot about that last option, you're right. However, what I'm missing is this: I want to create a diagonal wipe with 5 pixel border and apply it to 4 clips. I can only apply basic wipe, and have to change the settings on each transition. Also, I often use very short audio transitions alongside with longer ones. It would be great to have a possibility to assign a shortcut to each of them.


4) When you say that background rendering would be nice, what exactly do you mean? I guess that FCP requires a lot of rendering of effects and clips so you would render that in the background while being able to keep working. Is that correct? Personally, I rarely have too many effects on a clip that the hardware acceleration and my i7 CPU cannot handle playing live.


Dynamic link? Yes, Premiere does handle a lot of stuff in the real time, but there are times that it doesn't, especially if you're not running i7. Also, BlackMagic tends to stop playback when it can't output full resolution, and Premiere often handles real time by reducing resolution by half.


Something most people don't comment on is their Titling tools, and from what I have heard, Premiere is light years better than FCP.


Yes, this, plus better handling of psd files, and psd sequences as well. I would welcome keyframing in titler, like Avid has, instead of creating layers of titles or going to AE, but the tool is quite good as it is.

As for PC vs Mac: I would look at what software you currently need and might need in the future in addition to which components you need to stuff inside.

Yes, certainly. This is why we're still undecided. We have a little bit of time still, so we'll see.

You said that scopes are not live in Premiere, but in the Program Monitor, they are.

You can open a sequence into the Source Monitor. You can also double click a clip on the timeline and it opens in the Source monitor.

A work-around that I use is to create a custom effect for the transition and save it. However, I also would like to save custom transitions like you.

I hope this helps :)

Thanks Steve, I'll check it out.

After spending several days reading reviews and feedback in several forums and on the App Store, I have decided to move to Adobe. Since I already had Photoshop CS4 for stills (which I don't use much since I got Lightroom), I was able to upgrade to the Production Premium bundle for $1,100.00.

My question is this - can I load selected programs from the bundle on both a MacPro and a Macbook Pro without violating the license agreement, so long as I use the software on one or the other at any given time?

The direct answer is "no" but the practical answer is "yes." How's that? Although the EULA (http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/195/tn_19592.html) does not allow a user to split a single installation across two machines, you are allowed to have two installations (eg main editing box and laptop) as long as you use only one at a time. Both will activate.

I do full installs so I'm not 100% sure, but I don't see any reason why you couldn't choose different configurations for the two installations. You're given the choice of which applications in the suite to install during the setup. So you'd be legal since only you would be using the software on only one or the other of your installations at a given time.

PS: Richard, have you already made your purchase? I hope not because one of our DVinfo sponsors, Videoguys, has a cross-grade discount from FCP down to $799 until the end of the month. That is a heck of a great deal.

I placed my order on the Adobe website on Saturday. It is Sunday evening and my order is still "pending". I stupidly thought that Adobe's web-based, on-line order process was actually a web-based on-line order process. I will try to cancel the order early tomorrow morning.

If you ordered the download version, I'm not sure why it didn't go straight through, but if you ordered the boxed discs, then an order placed on Saturday would certainly not ship until at least Monday. No carrier whether it be UPS, FedEx, or even ol "rain, hail, sleet, or snow" USPS, does Sunday pick ups.

Another issue causing the wait is the need for manual credit approval during business hours. Try ordering anything from newegg and many other online businesses and you must wait for them to manually approve the order, which can only take place during business hours.

The silver lining of having my order "pending" is that I was able to call in today and cancel it. I was aprehensive of Adobe Customer Service in India. I had significant problems getting my Photoshop license moved from PC to Mac a few years ago. I finally got it resoved by filing a formal complaint with the BBB in California.

Anyway, this time I had better luck (though I still had problems understanding the gentleman in India. I had him send be an e-mail confirmation of the order cancellation.

After that, I called Video Guys and placed my order for the special pricing. Thanks for pointing this out.

Here are some resources that we put together to help people familiar with Final Cut Pro as they learn how to use Premiere Pro:
"Premiere Pro overview documents for Final Cut Pro and Avid Media Composer users" (http://blogs.adobe.com/premiereprotraining/2010/09/premiere-pro-overview-documents-for-final-cut-pro-and-avid-media-composer-users.html)

Todd - guess you're getting a lot of hits these days? ;)

I ordered my CS5.5 from Adobe Friday. $849 for FCP users.