Normally I'd post this type of thread on my blog but considering the wealth of DVinfo users that have emailed me directly I decided to post my thoughts here.

There's a bit of a panic amongst die-hard FCP users, that since FCP X has been been neutered from many of the pro-features most of us use (and need) that there's no longer an upgrade path for Final Cut. (You do know that you can't import any version of a FCP project into "X", right?)

While the majority of pro users - myself included - have given FCP X a decidedly thumbs-down vote and either won't or literally *can't* use it we're not exactly left out in the cold with FCP 7.

First, as the wealth of scathing reviews and pro users reporting they literally can't go forward with this new version abound Apple will most likely continue supporting FCP 7 - for how long is unclear. In fact as of today you can still get the latest updates via Software Update for FCP 7.

Many of you who emailed asked, "Is this a good time to switch platforms?". The answer is a resounding "No". Don't switch to another NLE package and most certainly don't switch to a PC-only platform. Why?

In both cases switching to another Mac-capable NLE will almost always be wrought with unforeseen struggles and gotchas, regardless how well developed the other NLE is. And god-forbid you tried to migrate a current working project... forget about it!

Those issues will become exacerbated if you try to migrate to a PC-only platform.

And then there's the cost of the migration and, the learning curve of becoming proficient in the new NLE environment - which by the way has it's own associated costs because you'll be less productive by a huge margin over your current FCP 7 workflows.

No doubt, it's damned disappointing that FCP X hoodwinked all pro editors, but if you're serious about taking charge with your current FCP 7 installation, then consider beefing it up rather than abandoning it.

For example, I had been waiting for FCP X to be released before I made any hardware decisions (it's time for me to update my edit system). So the new plan is to get a MBP with Thunderbolt, slap in a couple SSD drives and really go to town with my current FCP 7 rig.

Yes, that's far more expensive than would have been if I'd just upgraded to FCP X, but with this new plan I'll actually be increasing my workload efficiency and actually adding capabilities I didn't have before - such as the new Thunderbolt adapter for the Matrox MX02 offerings.

The main point here, is that FCP 7 remains one of the best Mac-based NLE's ever; it's super-stable and has unparalleled third-party support both in hardware and software offerings. No other NLE - ever - has had this much versatility. Period.

And let's not forget, FCP lives on the best OS ever produced, which is reason alone to not attempt a PC-switchover.

Maybe FCP X will get a total re-vamp and pro users will finally be able to adopt it into current workflows. But if not, you'll be able to stick with FCP 7 literally for years to come with nary a hitch in your profitability.

Panic no more my FCP friends - you'll always have DVinfo here to help you through the challenges.

Hi Robert,

another point to make is that both Avid and Adobe have their NLE's on the Mac Platform too, so switching from a great OS isn't necessary.

I bought FCP X and I'll plan on learning some things. But if Apple doesn't come out with updates and/or clear statements, I will switch to Adobe, but on a Mac of course.
FCP 7 is a good NLE, but we all know that it needs a good under-the-hood update (which is arguably one of the greatest selling points of FCP X, the rewritten engine).

Best regards,

Thanks for your thoughts Robert. Its kind of comforting.

I'm still on FCP6 as I was waiting for X before forking out for FCS3 as the upgrade seemed quite limited but regret that now of course. Is it possible to still upgrade from FCS2 to 3 or FCP6 to 7? I'm suspecting not.

If you can still find a dealer that sells it, just act quickly.

What's the possibility Apple can/will sell the old program to someone that can continue to improve it and make a living with it? Some people don't need to make billions off something to justify its existence. Maybe to one of the companies that make a living selling plug ins for it.

If you judge by the example of Shake, I'd say the chances are zero.

I read that they've pulled all existing copies of FCP7 from their shelves. Is this true?

Is there any real reason (as seen through Apple's eyes only) to keep the MAC PRO around for anything except the old FCP? I imagine the MAC PRO is not raking in billions for them either. Kill the old FCP, so then you can more easily kill the MAC PRO.

I'm still using V6 too. Couldn't see any benefits to going to 7 but have been eagerly awaiting X.

The new one is mind blowing, but of course has many shortcomings at present. I am going through the Steve Martin tutorials and am hugely impressed by much of what i see. I'm guessing that Avid and Adobe will be stealing from FCPX in the future, as the program seems to be well ahead of the competition in many ways.
By the time Avid and Adobe get up to speed, Apple will have left them standing as FCPX matures into a great video editing app once again.

That's why i'm staying put, even though i'm unhappy about many of the current changes.

I'm on FCP 6 as well (I was totally underwhelmed by the features in the FCP 7 upgrade so decided to wait for the "next one").

I've got the Steve Martin tutorials and sat down to do them, but I've baulked at the FCP X interface and so have left it for a while. It's the same reaction I had when I sat down to play with the revised iMovie a couple of years ago. I just had an antipathy to it and walked away.

If it were "worth my while" I'd push through the initial interface antipathy on FCP X. But, because it lacks the ability to import previous projects (an absolute deal-breaker for me as I frequently have to re-open old projects and revise for the clients as their procedures change and their training videos have to be updated) plus uncertainty on how well it handles media spanned across multiple drives and raids (another potential deal-breaker for me) I'm treating FCP X as more of a "hobby" at the moment. Whereas a week ago I'd have called it a necessity and was all pumped up to learn it immediately.

I'm in such confusion at the moment as to Apple's intentions with FCP X that I found myself last night revising my hardware intentions for the end of July. I was looking at getting two fully pimped-out thunderbolt iMacs (i7, 16 GB RAM, 2 GB graphics cards, etc.) but I found myself thinking, "Why should I reward Apple by buying their hardware? Am I that much in love with OS X? Maybe Windows 7 is better than the earlier - ugh - versions of Windows that I had a little to do with? Maybe get a cheaper Windows box with the NVIDIA card that optimises CS 5.5 on the PC and switch to a set-up like that?"

I'm not saying I'm going to do that, but I was seriously pondering it last night.

I'm looking at a roadmap over the next 2 years and I thought the new FCP X with pimped-out thunderbolt iMacs would be it. FCP X has the potential to be such a phenomenal time-saver with the features that it does have. Plus the ability to adjust Motion graphics directly in the FCP timeline might also save heaps of time.

But it's all "theoretical gain" when the nobbling of such fundamental features (such as importing old projects) makes it unviable for me to pull it into my workaday pipeline.

Perhaps I'll follow Robert's sage advice at the beginning of this thread and hunt around for a dealer who might have an old copy of the FCP 7 upgrade. FCP 7 would be a pretty stable solution for a fair while and the pimped-out i7 iMac would at least greatly reduce rendering time and exporting time.

At least until we know what updates and upgrades Apple is going to make with FCP X (or not).

David,

I agree that not being able to open previous projects is a PITA, but that could yet be addressed. I'd wait a couple of weeks and see what happens. Going to a new NLE and windows hardware is going to be expensive, because high spec windows gear is not that much cheaper, and CS5 is around £1600 in this part of the world at least.
It seems to me that there's nothing wrong with FCP as it is, so what's the hurry?

Also V7 is still a lousy upgrade IMO. Why not stick with 6, or do you desperately need the coloured markers & new speed tools etc?

FCP7 is still largely identical to 6

Like several here I was reluctant to pay for the incremental upgrades that FCP7 offered over the FCP6 that I've been using very successfully and enjoyably the last 3 years. I also use Sony Vegas (currently 9E) on a Windows 7 PC with an i7 processor and I'm feeling really glad I've kept one foot in the PC camp ever since I started my corporate video production business 3 years ago.

I'm looking at some very expensive Apple hardware on my desk in front of me (2.66 GHz 8 core 2009 Nehalem Mac Pro, multiple 1TB drives, lots of RAM within etc. and a 2008 15 inch MBP). With this FCPX launch it's now far from certain that I'll buy any more Apple branded or Apple dedicated hardware for my business - something I would have thought unimaginable just a week ago. I also now doubt Apple will further develop the Mac Pro (at least in it's current form factor). I hope I'm wrong.

I've loved editing in FCP6 but at least I've learnt that Windows 7 64 Bit is blazing fast and ultra stable too - and Vegas is just as much fun to edit on as FCP - NLE's are just tools we professionals use - and Apple is going to find it increasingly hard to persuade me to part with my cash from this point forward (for hardware and software) unless they set out a VERY clear roadmap for FCPX very, VERY soon (unlikely I know, but the only way they'll stop the hemorrhaging in my view).

I'm sure I'm not unique in my thoughts, experiences and concerns. Might try CS5.5 next - but for now I'll just sit tight and use the great tools I already have.

i understand your views on FCP and MAC OS X.
but, please, don't base your deductions on "HOW PRETTY CUTE THE GUI IS"
come on, linux has to have the most ugly GUI out there and yet, they are much more stable than anything else!.

so, yes..i love FCP 7, its easy of use, but it lacks alot of stuff Adobe has.

now, if you are so close minded as to think that MAC OS X is the "ultimate" OS, i got bad news for you, buddy. Apple doesn't care about YOU. all they care is about iPad, Iphone and Ipod.....that's what makes them money.

if i were you, i would just start playing around with an alternative NLE so once apple completely messes up FCP or shuts it down because it isn't making them millions, you can quickly jump into another NLE and call it a day.

I have been using Windows 7 Pro 64-bit and it hasn't been anything but good to me.
i really don't understand when people bash on Windows 7 without even giving it a chance :(
I am both a windows and mac user. i actually am writing this on iMac 20inch.
So, no, i am not being biased because i can't afford a mac.

just my 0.0000002 cents.

I just ordered the Adobe upgrade to Premiere Production bundle for around $800 from VideoGuys. Thanks to Peter Bauer for pointing out this great deal! I had Photoshop, which made the upgrade possible.

I have (among other things) a Mac Pro with quad core and 24 GB of RAM.

If anyone else is considering switching to Premiere Pro CD 5.5, don't upgrade Mac OS to 10.6.8! It conflicts with the Mercury Playback engine! I was fortunate to see the warnings on the Adobe forum section here at DV Info.

I wonder if such incompatibility problems will increase over time.

I agree with Alejandro 100%

MAC OS X, although a great and stable OS, it is NOT the best OS out there. Linux has both these systems beat by a landslide, however, nobody can make money off of Linux and that is precisely why no one develops for linux.

Windows 7, although plagued with constant updates, works extremely fast and just as well as Mac OS X. Most diehard "Macheads" don't have any valid arguments as to why their Mac's are "superior"...I also find it sad that people feel the need to own a mac in order for their "creativity to explode".

Windows 7 64 + Sony Vegas 10 = An extremely fast, extremely stable NLE WITH real time previews...no need to render.

I was on the fence not too long ago with going Mac or not and after some hands on experience with FCP 7...i'm not convinced AT ALL and FCP is NOT worth the 2k+ cost of upgrades...all I need to do is beef up my quad PC and i'll fly past any Mac.

Don't get me wrong either. I don't hate Mac's, but it is evident that they do NOT care about "Us". They only care about the iPod, iPad and iPhone users...no one else. It's evident in their latest FCP X release and the plethora of whinning "Mac Only" users just proves that Apple doesn't care about its customers...unless they're the iphone, ipad or ipod customers.

All i'm saying is..DO NOT be afraid to go the way of the PC...they have come a LOOOONG way from their past. A well built and specced out PC will SPANK a Mac or be on par with at a fraction of the cost....and Vegas? Best editor out there in my opinion :)

Apple doesn't care about its customers...unless they're the iphone, ipad or ipod customers.In other words, they do care about their customers.

Apple is a ship that is changing the direction of its course, and the consumer markets that it is heading into are some lucrative seas indeed.

Their next step: Apple to start making TVs, report says (http://www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/innovation/06/22/apple.tv/index.html?hpt=hp_t2).

Soylent Green is people! For God's sake, it's people!

I am fairly familiar with Windows 7. The one thing I will say about OS X is the merciful absence of viruses and other malicious maladies. I have had way more "fun" with such problems on Windows than a person should be allowed to have, and I have used many flavors of anti-virus software, which I updated constantly.

I now have Windows 7 running in VM Fusion on three different Macs, but the use of the internet is solely restricted to required software updates, and I run Norton. The new, free product for internet security from Microsoft failed for a friend of mine.

Also, the constant updates for Windows 7 never seems to stop, and I have to go through the process over and over again, back-to-back, before it all "sticks"

Other's mileage may vary.

Is it possible to still upgrade from FCS2 to 3 or FCP6 to 7?

If you can still find a dealer that sells it, just act quickly.

I read that they've pulled all existing copies of FCP7 from their shelves. Is this true?

B&H shows the full and upgrade versions of FCS3 as discontinued. The VideoGuys site says "With the release of the FCPX app, inventory of FCS3 has been very tight. We are now taking orders and hope to have more inventory in 1-2 weeks," and that's for the full version only.

If anyone else is considering switching to Premiere Pro CD 5.5, don't upgrade Mac OS to 10.6.8! It conflicts with the Mercury Playback engine! I was fortunate to see the warnings on the Adobe forum section here at DV Info.

This has already been fixed, you only need new nVidia drivers.

i've had windows 7, WITHOUT and antivirus, and i've never gotten as much as a facebook hack done, EVER.

you need to know what to open, i know this, because my last windows 7 install was 8 months ago, use it daily on the internet forums/facebook/youtube/vimeo and editing video!, latest updates (it updates automatically) and my wife, has had the her computer formatted 5 times in the same period! and she has antivirus!, so it all comes down to HOW you use the computer.

people don't write viruses for MAC because
1. macs are cute
2. everyone hates windows
3. bill gates has more money than steve jobs (ok, i kid i kid)

but seriously, pick up better internet habbits and you'll see how good it is...


and...question...why would you want a VM with windows 7 to not be online?
what can u possibly use it for? wordprocessing?

Yep- internet use is key. I don't run any anti-virus and i'm in the same boat as Alejandro. No problems on that end. Windows 7 does constantly have updates though and that does get tedious.

"In other words, they do care about their customers."

Not across the board so it seems.

I run the AVG free edition as my only antivirus on my Windows editing system CPU. After 10 years, very good. Long ago I learned that Nortons and many of the the other heavy Anti Virus programs end up crashing things more than any virus out there. They also use a lot of resources.

I had a FCP user in my office the other day as we rush edited a small film on Vegas Pro 10. I pulled three different file sources (mp4, avi, and .mov), all with different aspect rations, on to a timeline with out any pre processing. Editing in this fashion is normal for me and I was wondering why he was thinking I had to do something different.

AVG is good. Sony Vegas has been able to mix and match footage for quite some time now without problems.

I'm surprised how much action this thread has started, but I've seen a few points thrown around that need clarifying or reinforcing:

1. Since XP SP2 Windows machines have been every bit as stable as Mac OS X. However they key to keeping things rock-stable is NOT to use your edit system as your general internet browser or game machine. In fact, most serious post houses never connect their edit systems to the 'net at all specifically for that reason.

2. Windows only needs those constant updates for *internet-based* security, not OS stability. If you have a clean install of XP SP2 or above including Win 7 you do not need to ever get updates from Microsoft unless however a compatibility issue with newer hardware comes up.

3. If Sony Vegas had ever been a native Mac OS X application that's what I'd be using; it is a very powerful, fast and stable NLE. It's on par with but not quite as powerful as PP CS5.5.

4. Remember that switching NLE's or worse, switching over to a PC-only platform will COST you money TWICE. First in the expense of purchasing the software/hardware and second, in the time it takes you to get up to speed with the new environment.

DO NOT assume that if you're a master at FCP that you'll breeze through a system migration of any kind; there will always be "gotchas" that will spring up and you need to allocate time to deal with and fix them.

5. Although the future of FCP is now questionable you still have the option of running Boot Camp to get the best of both worlds. So yes, you always pay a premium for purchasing Apple hardware, but you can't run Mac OS X on a dedicated WinTel machine *without* creating a hack-intosh type rig. Definitely not recommended for any user at any cost.

6. If you follow the advice in point #1 you'll NEVER need any antivirus/anti-spyware on your system, thus nothing to slow it down in the background.

I can't stress enough that while FCP X has turned everything sideways for all of us, FCP 7 remains a very compelling reason NOT to spend any new monies on software - not just yet.

For those who are on older FCP versions, "7" is a worthwhile update as it adds compatibility and bug fixes that plagued previous versions.

In the end remember that software/hardware choices are nothing but tools; if you pick the best tool for your type of work then you'll be fine. Making an emotional bond to your tools or becoming blindly brand-loyal is not only counter productive, it's also a great way to toss money out the door.

You don't have to buy a PC to run Sony Vegas Pro. I've got it on my MacBook Pro, running under BootCamp... the best of both worlds. I've got Vegas on there because I used to do a lot of news, and with Vegas I could cut very fast, then render to an mpeg2 for FTP uploading without having to leave the program. But I don't do news anymore, thank God.

Still playing with FCP X. So far so good. I'm coming around to the new look. The media management is going to tax my old brain for awhile, but I think I can get used to it.

I don't miss FCS 3 (sold mine this week). I was never crazy about it, anyway. But I liked it more than I do Premiere.

If I get into a situation where I need to do some really serious editing and bring other editors into the mix, I can call my son-in-law and use one of his company's Avid suites.

My boss at work loves Sony Vegas and I have been forcing myself to play around with it under bootcamp. It has a few holes here and there but it is a very solid NLE.

My solution for dealing with viruses with Windows is to do my web surfing on my iPad.

When it comes to Windows it really does come down to three main areas where get viruses.

1. Adult content. Adult sites have a lot of drive by downloads that infect Windows.
2. Illegal software sites. Viruses just waiting to happen.
3. Junk email.

Avoid adult sites, illegal hacked software and take care with email and Windows can be very solid. I refuse to use virus protection because I view it as just as obtrusive as the viruses themselves. Plus I think viruses are a conspiracy and are created just so people will live in fear and waste money on virus protection every year.

Anyway getting back to Vegas. Those of you who work with RED should at least check it out. It supports native R3D files and works very well. At work our main editor uses CS5 to edit our RED footage but the boss loves Vegas and has used it on a few smaller projects. We all protest Vegas so it doesn't get used very much but we are really starting to consider using it more.

My experience with Windows XP based production switchers and control room transmission equipment is that viruses get in and slowly ruin the system even with no Internet surfing done on the computers. Windows 7, I don't know as many companies still haven't upgraded their control software to it. The kicker is that some popular virus software sometimes treats the control software as viruses! Tricaster switchers have this problem. As Robert says, the best course of action is to isolated the PCs from the internet completely and download updates on another computer if they are really needed.

If anyone is interested a have an unused copy of FCS 3 upgrade that has never been registered. I tried to sell it on the forum here but no one was interested.

I wonder if anyone wants it now that FCPX is hated by everyone...

I think that I will post it for sale again.... :)

Daniel Weber

Hey Daniel, I would jack up the price on that FCS3 upgrade and put it on eBay! That thing is going to be like gold at least until the first FCP X update. ;P

Can't tell any difference between FCP6 and 7 myself. Sure there are a couple of coloured markers/sequence icons, and better speed tools i rarely use, but 6 is solid a a rock IMO. The FCS3 "upgrade" was a lame excuse to sell customers a new box of expensive packaging with very little inside.

Concerning moving to a new NLE/platform due to FCPX i think many should hold off, take a deep breath, and ask themselves if it's really necessary. FCPX is a groundbreaking app with massive potential that is likely to be vastly improved very quickly. I believe Adobe, Avid etc, will be studying the app and looking for stuff to put in their own programs, because there is a hell of a lot of good stuff in this program and it's way too soon to write it off.

Unless you absolutely have to have the things avid/adobe have that apple doesn't, i suggest carrying on with Version 7 (or 6) and getting to know X on the side, because i think X is going to blow the competition out of the water within 18 months (probably sooner).

My 2 cents.

I've straddled both the Mac and PC worlds as well as FCP and Adobe software. As originally a PC/Premiere user for over a decade, using Premiere with Matrox DigiSuite hardware, I found the sytem(s) to be very stable. For my home systems using Premiere I used AVG Free which provided good protection and didn't interfere with the editing software and continue to use it today.

My current system is Win 7 with Adobe CS5, woefully underpowered, (Quadcore 9450 and only 4GB of 800 mhz RAM), and I can still get realtime editing with color correction and scaling with one stream of HDV and one of AVCHD, both streams 1080i but editied in a standard def timeline.

Meantime, I enjoyed editing in FCP on my Macbook, I like its customizability and I love Soundtrack Pro. But have had speed problems and had the spinning color wheel a few times.

In the end, for me I've found good/bad points with both OS's and with both Adobe's and Apples editing suites. For people wondering what the future is, considering Adobe's CS5 on the MAC or CS5 and Vegas running under Win 7 isn't the end of the world. And FCPX sounds weird but interesting.

In the end, for FCP users, you're futures may be a bit more uncertain but don't get bummed. The alternatives may be better than you think.

I see so many people living in the icloud, hoping and thinking that Apple will make FCPX into some amazingly useful NLE. If anyone else BUT Apple released this NLE, I guarantee none of you 'wishful' people would be saying the same about an Avid or Adobe 'X'. The Apple kool aid has gone sour ;)

Apple has been working on this 'app' since before 2008. They designed the iMovie interface and released it back in 2008; so, they have been working on it since then. How can you make excuses for a program lacking sooo many features and full of bugs when this app has been in the works for several years? Adobe rewrote not just Premiere CS5, but also After Effects CS5, Encore CS5 and Media Encoder CS5 in less than 2 years. Plus, they rewrote Photoshop CS4 and then CS5 on Mac. And should I mention that all 5 of these CS5 apps were rewritten for BOTH Mac AND Windows at the same time?

Sorry Robert, but I totally don't agree that people should just sit and wait for things to develop. As you know from your testing, the SPEED advantages and ultimately the EFFICIENCY of Premiere CS5 is worth the money to jump ship from FCP because the $800 or so spent on CS5 will pay for itself in time saved and hard drive space by not needing to waste time transcoding everything.

The funniest thing from all of this is that Premiere can OPEN FCP projects but FCP X can't. For those who are not aware, Premiere can use FCP 7 shortcuts.

Excellent info Steve. I'm on FCS 2 (FCP 6.0.6), mainly because I really did not think the minor incremental extras in FCP 7 were worth giving Apple money for - and I wanted to await the 64 Bit re-writing to use all the cores on my Mac Pro.

Well now it's here and I'm looking hard at Premier CS5.5 - for obvious reasons.

Question. Can CS5.5 open FCP 6.06 projects or do they have to be FCP 7? Thanks in advance.

Premiere opens FCP XML from any version of FCP.

Sorry Robert, but I totally don't agree that people should just sit and wait for things to develop...

I don't recall saying to simply "sit and wait..." anywhere in my posts.

However as I've been saying it is highly advisable if not a must-do that all professional users of FCP 7 should be looking at options, not just PP but any NLE/hardware package that gets the job done AND comes with true manufacturer support.

Those options being, Premiere Pro, Avid, Edius, Sony Vegas Pro 10, and M100. Like any tool all these come with various capabilities, and a few are PC-only, but again anything that gets the job done and is directly supported is what any pro needs.

The notion that simply jumping off to a newer/different platform comes with costs of time and money, so absolutely nobody should be thinking to simply drop FCP and make a move, but rather spend time learning another NLE either by direct usage or on-line "how to" courses such as Lynda.com to get a real sense of what you're in for.

I've been getting asked often what my personal plan of action is for my own NLE needs, so I'm happy to share what I'll be doing at some point:

- Staying on the Mac platform to take advantage of dual OS's via Boot Camp.
- Upgrading my MBP to a newer 17" inch w/Thunderbolt
- Keeping FCP 7 so I can re-edit old client projects.
- Installing (2) SSD's (second HDD by using the OWC data doubler).
- Adding Production Premium CS 5.5 to my package.
- Take advantage of Thunderbolt with the new R6 RAID from Promise

I'm not going to purchase a new Mac Pro simply because that above setup would actually outperform my old Mac Pro by a small margin. And, I'm not going to a PC-only system because there are apps that I use constantly for pro editing that simply don't exist on the PC - and most likely never will.

As always I advise anyone who's thinking about dropping hard-earned cash to change-up or modify their existing NLE environment to do your due diligence, ask tons of questions and when possible get with a vendor or supplier who can DEMO a newer system for you before you spend a dime.

Hi Robert,

Sorry for the misunderstanding. It was late and I was interpreting your comments about sticking with FCP 7 as 'sit and wait'.

I think I read most of your blog last night and I appreciate the honesty and lack of Apple bias. Personally, I don't like the way Apple operates by limiting what its customers can and cannot do with their purchased hardware and software. For example, Apple uses only 4 ram slots and 4 PCIe slots (and 8 ram slots in the dual-cpu) whereas almost all other manufacturers include 6 or 12 ram slots and 6-7 PCIe slots. There is absolutely NO technical reason for Apple doing this. They do it so people must buy more Mac Pros.

I was waiting for the new FCP to buy a new 6-core Mac Pro to use with Smoke and Resolve and migrate some of the equipment from my Z800 (Areca raid & 12TB R5 array, BM Decklink Extreme 3D, Eizo CG243W and a Panny 1710w). However, my plans have changed even though I was really really looking forward to Smoke and Resolve (because I do most of the post work myself, I need the fastest software for my broadcast work). I have looked at all of the evidence and it appears that Apple wants to move to iOS (and possibly ARM chips). After all, Apple is great at providing an ecosystem designed to make everything easy and simple for their users. So, having the iOS on everything from their phone to their computers would provide the best overall experience.

In contrast, I see an opposite direction from HP with their newish 'Z' line and higher end tablets where HP is catering to professionals. In addition, the fact that Autodesk chose HP for their $40,000 to $300,000 IFFFS workstations rather than the almighty Mac Pro should mean something.

HAVE A GREAT 4th of JULY!

I agree, Robert -- I don't really think it's wise to suddenly jump into something new, especially if time can't be dedicated to learning a new program. My last full-time gig as a shooter/editor, I would never have had any time to learn a new NLE, even if it's not to bad of a transition from FCP 7 to Avid or Premiere Pro.

I'm still editing on FCP 7 right now, and I do have PP CS5 and Avid MC 4.5 standing buy if I need it. I also hope to try out FCP X this week, and I'm optimistic I'll be able to cut a test project this coming weekend.

Heath

I think I read most of your blog last night and I appreciate the honesty and lack of Apple bias. Personally, I don't like the way Apple operates by limiting what its customers can and cannot do with their purchased hardware and software. For example, Apple uses only 4 ram slots and 4 PCIe slots (and 8 ram slots in the dual-cpu) whereas almost all other manufacturers include 6 or 12 ram slots and 6-7 PCIe slots. There is absolutely NO technical reason for Apple doing this. They do it so people must buy more Mac Pros.Sorry, but how does this make people buy more Mac Pros? What use are extra PCIe slots or RAM in another Mac Pro if you want to expand the system that you are using. The Mac Pro case is pretty tight inside so would need to be larger to accommodate extra expansion slots.

Robert, I respectfully disagree with almost everything you've said - the only exception being, of course, don't try to switch NLE's in the middle of a project.

I had the transition to Premiere a few months ago and my learning curve was almost non-existent. It is the same paradigm, and with my set up it's even the same keyboard shortcuts. You make it sound scary and time consuming to change, and it simply is not. At all. Either.

There is no significant advantage of FCP7 over Premiere. Each one has a slight lead in some areas, but they are on the margins. And since Premiere is still being updated, I think it is 100% incorrect for people to plan on staying with FCP7 for years.

Also when I made the transition to Adobe, my partner did as well. But since he was ready to buy new hardware, he went with a PC - and got the same processor in my macbook pro for half the cost with twice the memory. And he has had ZERO stability problems, caught ZERO viruses, in short had ZERO problems with it. We share projects between the two seamlessly.

Your evangelism of OSX as "the best OS ever produced" is worrisome to me as advice as well. If you believe that and it matters to you, then great. BUT like FCP vs. Premiere, Win 7 vs OSX is a story of marginal advantages on either side, when it comes to how it functions as a host for an editing station. The computer, the OS, the NLE, they're just tools, not your best friends. And both OSs are completely fine tools that do a completely fine job. Neither is perfect. And if one of them is the best ever made, then good for it. But that's not a difference that matters as much as you imply.

In terms of viruses and instability... it's easy for a conscientious user to not catch them.

Two years ago company I worked with had a Premiere-bases editing shop. They said they wanted to switch to FCP because they heard it was more stable. Being an FCP user at the time, I said, "No. It crashes as much, it locks as much, it will annoy you as much - just in slightly different ways." Six months after the switch I talked to them and they said, "Yup... sure enough." I'm guessing they're regretting that one now...

Long story short - FCP and PR are functionally equivalent, as are their OSs. One has an upgrade path and one does not. It's a pretty simply equation for me.

I can't use FCP X as it is, so I'm sticking with 7 for now. If Apple in their arrogance decide not to reintroduce the pro features we've recently lost, then Adobe will get my money when it becomes untenable to use FCP7 (which I don't really see happening any time soon).

Disappointed? Yes of course, had enough? yup. Giving Apple any more of my heard earned? Nah, stuff 'em.

I think you've missed the bigger points I was making, Barry.

The suggestion about not switching immediately comes mainly from the fact that we're still in a very down economy thus, it's not wise to be concerned with spending cash when users with a full FCP 7 install already have a viable and working NLE. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it..." is the mantra here.

Switching involves *spending money*; there's no free lunch in that process and I don't want current FCP editors feeling that they *have* to spend money right now. They don't.

And your personal experience of making an NLE switch being almost a non-event is also very non-typical of the average indie editor. Most do not have master-level skills on either the hardware or software and for them switching involves not-so-obvious gotchas that don't become apparent until they're in the middle of the process.

You really want to call me smug? Is that the level of your argument? I was talking facts and experience, not insults. And making conjectures about my financial position and the position of the others on the board to support your post and attempt to minimize mine is simply unnecessary and in this case both wrong and unappreciated.

I was offering an opposing view of both the NLEs and the OSs. And I was offering it from a place of very recent, relevant experience. And that experience informed advice that differed from yours.

Responding that I must be a master-level editor with an ample supply of cash, even though you know nothing about me, is not useful to the debate, and not useful to the people you were trying to inform.

I think Robert meant it as a compliment Barry. Based on your posts I would say that you're a very experienced editor with business experience. And you are very good at nailling your points and I appreciate your clarity on the insights you post. I wish I could write as well as you.

Did you go to law school?? Or captain of the debate team? :)

If I may add my add to the discussion, Barry is right, your NLE, or the companys that make them are not your best friends. And neither should we stereotype OS/X is for creative types and PC's are for uncreative nerds.

In the end it is about end results of your efforts. Nobody cares what you edit with.

I think the biggest message here is what Robert said, it's a down economy. I know many of my friends and colleagues can't afford to just make a switch to new software and possibly new hardware. Even at $800-$1000 for PP or Avid, that's still a lot of money.

In South Florida, most companies are now one-man-bands, or rely on one or two people to write, shoot, direct, produce and edit local commercials, weddings, corporate videos, etc. There are very few "full teams" that go out on any shoot, even two people. And prices have dropped just to keep business going. Many production houses are charging 65% less for the same work they did 4-5 years ago.

On the local Facebook production pages, no one is talking about FCP X, Avid or Premiere Pro (or Vegas), they're talking about ways to bring in more business, as others go out of business.

Heath

David - thanks for the kind words. My guess is that Robert meant it less as a compliment and more as a statement that my data didn't conflict with his - that I am just an outlier, and he was talking to everyone else. [It seems that he or Chris removed the most objectionable portion of his comments to me without comment, so who knows.]

For the record, I am certainly aware that people - depending on their background and inclination - have a range of difficulty moving from one platform to another. And I know that I'm a good learner. BUT - I don't think everyone else is a bad one. In fact on this board, the only voices I've heard speaking to trying out Premiere from FCP have said that it's gone very well. I have read many people talking about trying it, and I've known several people personally to make the switch, and I have not heard a single voice saying, "I tried out Premiere and it is was hard to switch." I've only heard Robert say that it WILL be hard if you do try. Perhaps he tried to switch and had problems? I don't know, he didn't offer any examples on that.

Heath - I think the economic issue is a big and important one, but it certainly wasn't the point of his original post. Clearly, we'd all like the economy and the business to be better. And clearly, no one needs to switch anything if it's not economically viable to do so. And if that's the case, this discussion is moot.

But if you are upgrading and you're only buying new software, the PR crossgrade makes it the exact same price as FCPX. If and you're upgrading hardware and software, PCs are measurably cheaper by a significant degree for the same computing power. So at that point it becomes very relevant.

Especially given the economic situation, if you think it's relevant, I don't think it's good advice to keep investing in a system that is built around FCP7 when there is no upgrade path - unless you are absolutely sure that everything you are investing in will still be useful if you switch to PR or Avid down the road. And if you're taking that route... I'd personally say switch now.

I am platform agnostic. I have owned both, used both, and they do the same thing. And certainly if Robert thinks it's going to be "wrought with unforeseen struggles and gotchas," I encourage him to tell people that. But I disagree, and I want people to hear both sides of that coin.

I personally am a Mac guy, have been for close to 17 years, so I won't be switching to Windows at all. That's my personal opinion and works perfect for me.

Right now, I'm staying with FCP 7 and will be taking a look at FCP X. I don't do multicam (not yet, at least) and haven't had to do XML in years, and I tend to do everything within FCP (sound, cc, etc.). So FCP X is probably perfect for me. And I'll be SUPER happy once my plug-ins are updated; I use Magic Bullet Looks and Quick Looks often, and FxFactory Pro's titling plug-ins from time-to-time.

I haven't been a full-time production guy in over a year, and I haven't cut a film (short or feature) in three years, so I'm also not really looking to change my NLE anytime soon. I have all the major NLEs, and they're all pretty much very similar and shouldn't be too much of a burden to switch, IF I have to.

Personally, I like FCP 7 the best, Vegas is exciting to me with its "different take" on telling a story, Premiere Pro is a little clunky to me, and Avid is moreso. And if you ask me why, it just is... even with the FCP 7 shortcuts, there are still little things that bug me about both apps. I haven't used either in a few months, but I was editing on FCP 7 last week.

Heath

For me its more of a philosophical point and frustration/anger how Apple never really overhauled FCP. People for years have been complaining when are they going make FCP 64 bit, update the interface, etc. I'm doing what someone else said I'm still using version 6 because 7 was a joke, offering next to nothing. I still can do what I need to, so there is no need for me to upgrade. Like others have said you can't help think of the future and how much time and money do you want invest in a company that acts this way. There is a reason why companies offer different products based on whether you are a business or a consumer. They have different needs. The larger question is who is FCP being designed for?

I have this naive notion that users and a software company should have a symbiotic relationship. Software company builds a product to address the needs of an industry and in a timely manner offers new versions that keep up with technology and addresses the changing needs of its customer base. In return, customers stay loyal and continue to buy the latest version. The feeling most of us have been getting from Apple is they are doing things based on their strategic plans, and if by luck you should fit into their plans then great. They seem out of touch or indifferent to what video professionals need and want. This isn't about old people refusing change like meta data, its about offering a smooth transition to the future. Its as if they have no concept of how a business works. In my work I find out what the client wants. I could create the slickest video on Blu-Ray but if they need it in SD on DVD they're not going to be happy.

Apple isn't the first company to acquire a product, put little to no R&D back into and see how long they milk it for. If you are old enough to remember, that's what Adobe did with Premiere, opening the door for FCP. One gets tired of watching history repeat itself.

I personally am a Mac guy, have been for close to 17 years, so I won't be switching to Windows at all. That's my personal opinion and works perfect for me.

And I support that 100%. That's different than telling others that they shouldn't.

If you see someone debating Ford vs. Chevy, you'll get a lot of people saying, "oh, I love the way this feels - I'll never drive anything else," "I wouldn't be caught dead in a Ford," all kinds of stuff. But if you're advising someone on which car to buy, I like it to be about the numbers and the facts. Cost, lifespan, resale, gas mileage.

The relationship between your NLE maker of choice and you the editor can seem personal. But you cannot get to the point where it seems to me as "blind" worship. While I'm not saying that anyone has done this recently, I must say that about 3 or 4 years ago I almost got tarred and feathered on this very FCP forum for asking some questions about why you cannot edit/revise a title easily in the timeline. It was like "hey old man" Avid editor, this software rocks. That was an actual response. Revising titles was and still is something I do with a large amount of frequency. I was just learning FCP, but i had been editing on Avid for a decade so i wasn't a novice. This is one very basic function that I cannot believe isn't there yet. I wasn't attacking anyone FCP editor personally. Just asking why you can't do it. Instead they acted like I was calling them bad editors? They're great editors, but calling out "holes" in software is important feedback. So I thought!

It was like some guys thought FCP was the best editor ever without asking or challenging the Apple progrmmers to improve the whole experience. At one time, Avid became arrogant from its success, but we called them to task. Management did listen and they changed. But, we "yelled" and told them to lower prices and make the whole experience faster. And they did.

In all honesty, I think there are some amazing FCP editors out there. But once you stop holding the three A's accountable, then you get complacency and even arrogance from them. They're your tools. Tell them what you want. Don't just say, well we will get there someday. Tell them now,,or tell them now by switching to another app. That will get their attention. Just like Avid editors moving to FCP got Avid's attention.

Don't fall in love with them or worship them. Peace.