I'm looking to get out of tape-based recording and move on to solid-state recording. Within a street price of $2500-$4000 (tops... really more like $3500), what would be a good option to replace my Canon XH-A1? I like both the Panasonic HVX200a and 170, but fear the low light isn't as good as my Canon and that the P2 format is not going to be supported for years to come. Suggestions?

I added a used hard drive recorder to my XHA1. It cost me three hundred bucks. Now I shoot tapeless. Well, actually I put a tape in the camera just in case. But so far, I haven't had to capture any of the tapes.

I really like my XHA1. Especially the three control rings. Until I can afford something like the XF300, I'll keep shooting with my A1.

If you're a Canon die-hard, the 300/305 is the ticket (even against all the other cameras under $8k IMHO)
The XF100/105 are in your price range and are also killer cameras but don't have the full set of manual controls like the 300 or your A1. All the necessary stuff is there but some things are buried in menus. I have used the 105 and if I needed a different broll cam, that would be it.

Sony AX2000 is in your range too. Along with the Panny HMC150. I owned a 150 and it's a nice camera but I don't think it's a step up picture-wise from the A1. Its advantage is being card based and avchd. Price is right though if you want to be on the low end of your range.

I'd do the xf100 if I was in your shoes...then when you can swing it, get a 300 and you'll have a great pair of cameras that match really well.

Have you looked at the Panasonic HMC-150?

If you're a Canon die-hard, the 300/305 is the ticket (even against all the other cameras under $8k IMHO)
The XF100/105 are in your price range and are also killer cameras but don't have the full set of manual controls like the 300 or your A1. All the necessary stuff is there but some things are buried in menus. I have used the 105 and if I needed a different broll cam, that would be it.

Sony AX2000 is in your range too. Along with the Panny HMC150. I owned a 150 and it's a nice camera but I don't think it's a step up picture-wise from the A1. Its advantage is being card based and avchd. Price is right though if you want to be on the low end of your range.

I'd do the xf100 if I was in your shoes...then when you can swing it, get a 300 and you'll have a great pair of cameras that match really well.
Thanks for the advice. What manual features does the xf100 lack? The Sony AX2000 limits its recording to 2gb at a time, resulting in a loss of about 20 frames when it 'changes' to the next 2 GB (that is my understanding anyways).

Wow...that's a bit silly with the Sony. Doesn't seem that they would release a camera like that.

In any case, the 100/105 only have one lens ring and an assignable knob at the front. There is no manual ND filter. It's electronic but works very well. In fact, when I used the camera, it was left in auto everything except color balance and we were very happy with the results. The face detection AF feature is extremely good. The image stabilization is awesome. Easily does handheld! The bottom line is the picture quality and it's superb for a camera in that price range. The codec is really nice and with dual CF cards, it's really reliable.

The one thing that took some getting used to was the size. It's just so small! Which is really nice for lugging around but gives the impression of a far less capable camera.
The 100/105 absolutely blows the hmc150 away. Don't let the size or fact that it's a single sensor put you off. It's the real deal!

Thanks for the advice. What manual features does the xf100 lack? The Sony AX2000 limits its recording to 2gb at a time, resulting in a loss of about 20 frames when it 'changes' to the next 2 GB (that is my understanding anyways).

The Sony AX2000 captures files in 2GB chunks just like any other AVCHD camera. If you are losing 20 frames between 2GB chunks you are doing something wrong in post. The simplest solution is

copy /b 000001.mts+000002.mts joined.mts

as described in this thread from 2008:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-vixia-series-avchd-hdv-camcorders/113083-canon-vixia-hg10-2gb-file-limit-headache.html

When I was in the same shoes, I decided there was no step up in that price range. I don't think the xf100 has the three ring lens. It's also 10x zoom.

A Sony z5 with mrc1k add on will give you a little better low light, has the 20x zoom and has an integrated solid state solution. FireWire addons aren't as nice.

A used ex1 is a stepup that is close to your price range. It's the best lowlight performer in this class and the image clarity is spectacular. It's a 14x zoom but the image is so good you can zoom in post more than you are used to in hdv.

I added a used hard drive recorder to my XHA1. It cost me three hundred bucks. Now I shoot tapeless. Well, actually I put a tape in the camera just in case. But so far, I haven't had to capture any of the tapes.

I really like my XHA1. Especially the three control rings. Until I can afford something like the XF300, I'll keep shooting with my A1.
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I think this is a great suggestion. Isnt the new Canon 300/305 a XH-A1 with tapeless recording added? Almost looks identical to the XH-A1.
Roger, which hard drive recorder did you buy for $300.

Jeff

The XF-100 is in your price range, and lacks nothing important that I can see. It would destroy your A1. 60P alone is nearly priceless at 50mbps.

I've been looking for a conventional videocamera, and it is absolutely the best available in it's price range, nothing else comes close, IMO. The Sony NX cam has left me completely unimpressed, and the kit lens is very slow, not even worth considering for my work.

Phillip Bloom goes on about the camera at his blog below, scroll down to the review.

http://philipbloom.net/2011/07/09/video-review-of-the-canon-xa-10-xf100-and-xf105/

The XF-100 is in your price range, and lacks nothing important that I can see. It would destroy your A1. ,,,, The Sony has left me completely unimpressed, and the kit lens is very slow, not even worth considering for my work.

There's been 3 different models suggested here as possible solids state upgrades. Not sure what you mean by "the Sony". You are right, traditional camcorders in this price range won't have the sensitivity of the DSLRs that you use although I think it's more the sensors than a slow lens.

The A1 is a nice camera....venerable even. It's three ring lens was specifically mentioned by the OP as desirable in a replacement. Since I had and A1, I also know how nice the 20x f1.8 lens was. The XF100 has neither of those but, as you say, apparently has a wonderful CODEC and picture that may offset those....I don't have one (yet :-)) so I can't really say.

Also, the A1 is not a low light camera (something the OP also mentioned) tho and the Sony Z5 is a little better according to this review:
EventDV.net: The Event Videographer's Resource (http://www.eventdv.net/Articles/Editorial/In-the-Field/In-the-Field-Sony-HVR-Z5U-53359.htm)

The EX1 I recommended is also better than the A1 and XF100 in low light plus it has 3 rings and a 14x.

@Jeff Hinson... pay attention to the model of any hard disk or flash attachment and research its compatibility with the A1. I used the Sony MRC1K compact Flash attachment on my A1....lots of threads about it on DVInfo and I posted a video on the sure-fire method for making the two devices talk when they fail to connect properly. For a camcorder, i'd personally, recommend solid state media over hard disk any day. YMMV.

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I think this is a great suggestion. Isnt the new Canon 300/305 a XH-A1 with tapeless recording added? Almost looks identical to the XH-A1.
Roger, which hard drive recorder did you buy for $300.

Jeff

Jeff, I lucked into a used CitiDisk HDV unit from being in the right place at the right time. Another videographer I know had a friend selling one.

The Sony card based system mentioned by other posters is excellent. Used Firestores are an option, but make sure it's a model compatible with your A1. If you buy something new, the DN-60 units have a good price.
The classified section on the forums here is where I bought my A1, wireless mics, pelican case, lots of stuff. There are recording units that attach to an A1 listed there from time to time.

The Canon XF300 is much more advanced than our A1s. If I had the money, I'd buy one. But I don't, so I'm waiting. What I want, what I need, and what I can afford at the present time are in conflict.

The CitiDisk is a stopgap measure until I can by the XF or something else with the 3 rings. One ring is okay on my B and C cameras, but not the main camera.

Of course, necessity sometimes steps in and plans have to be modified.

Les, I was confused and was thinking the NXCAMS were discussed, my mistake.

I highly doubt he's going backwards at this point with the Z5 or even EX1 which is not even close to his price point. If Bill mentioned needing three rings, I missed it.

Z5/FX1000 not bad in low light, but then your going backwards with what is now old school technology.

Again, 60p images are buttery smooth, motion is gorgeous, for the money nothing even close, except DSLR, and he's not going there. It will not have the rings, but he can adapt. At this price point you cannot have it all, but the Canon 100 comes close, IMO.

Edit: having missed Bills mentioned the AX2000, that would certainly be a natural camera to look at, similar in form and function.

Bill after taking a quick look, the AX2000 does have lot to offer, I admit I don't know much about it, but it did receive mixed reviews. I never looked at it seriously, but I know some folks do love it.

Does it shoot 1080 or 720 60p? The camera has some quirks or difficulties, I seem to recall, but can't remember the complaints I read about. It might be poorer in low light than some expected, I can't remember.

Yep. This price point is difficult coming off the a1. The AX and NX cams are modern and you are right about the z5 being not. But looking at a used EX1 is ballpark pricewise and definately a step up. I found many features of the EX1r addressed limits I hit with the a1.

Bill, I don't know about the EX1 much, great camera, but the batteries and cards are quite expensive, I thought. Nice chips though. Used I thought they were still expensive, but I would snatch one up if I had the chance.

Have you looked at the Panasonic HMC-150?

I would second this one. It is an improvement in low light performance. Currently I use two HMC150's, switched from my XHA1. Still have the XH, and use it in multi-cam shoots. Matching them has not been a problem for me.

Steve,

You mean to say that the HMC150 is a better cam than the XH-A1 in low light? Do you mean it's brighter, or cleaner, or both? I'm actually looking at an amazing deal on a HVX200a.

I am in the same situation. What to buy to replace my XH-A1's. They are getting old. I am really looking at the new Panasonic AG-AC130. It is to come out in November I believe. It has a 22x lens and can record to two cards at once, nice to have a back-up. The camera seems very promising. I have never bought a Panasonic camera before, so that would be a change for me.

Steve,

You mean to say that the HMC150 is a better cam than the XH-A1 in low light? Do you mean it's brighter, or cleaner, or both? I'm actually looking at an amazing deal on a HVX200a.

My apollogies for not seeing this earlier....
In my case it seems a little brigter and a lot less "noise" in very low light situations.
I believe the HVX 200a has the same chip set as the HMC150.

There are a lot of experienced shooters with much more skill than me that like the HMC150, and who tout it for low light ability.

But I got to say I've shot with it along side other cams, and I thought it was bad in low light.

I have an occasional shooter who is very skilled with his HMC150, and same thing; the footage in a church is absolutely abysmal in low light compared to the FX1000.

I owned the HMC-150. Mine was nearly new, I got it for $2400 less than six months after it came out. I sold it less than a month later. It looked sick to me compared to the FX1000, but that is just me. The HMC-150 can without question produce gorgeous images, and I suppose I never learned to use it properly. I don't know. I saw people debating the issue and I couldn't get past what I saw with my own eyes.

The XH-A1s that I've rented were equally poor in low light if not even worse. But all this is subjective, I suppose. Mark VonLanken uses the HMC150, and he's forgot more than I'll ever know about video. I still don't understand it though.

I came into the business using the Sony PD150/170 and VX2000-2100 cameras and I find that those cameras still shape my idea of what is acceptable in low light. You turned them on, and they performed flawlessly even in auto, they were phenomenal, as many of us know.

At any rate I shoot with the GH2 and while not a real video camera, at least I have the ability to shoot great images in low light again, which is great.

Possible alternative could be the AG-AC130 with SD Cards and a fantastic 22x lens. The only problem I see is the CMOS chips.

Bill, I don't know about the EX1 much, great camera, but the batteries and cards are quite expensive, I thought. Nice chips though. Used I thought they were still expensive, but I would snatch one up if I had the chance.


I just made the jump from my A1 to an EX1r this weekend. While I've got a LONG way to go to get used to it -- it seems FAR more capable than my A1 and equally more complex though familiarity has a lot to do with complexity -- it is a fabulous camera.

Batteries are expensive -- look for about $250 for a big 4-4 1/2 hour battery.

The cards, however, are not bad at all. While the original owner of my camera included 16gb and a 32gb SxS cards -- both probably worth over $1000 together -- I use a simple $60 adapter that uses the same SDHC cards that I use on my Canon 60D DSLR. So far, it's worked flawlessly.

While I got an incredible deal on a barely used EX1r, it still cost about twice as much as my A1 did when I bought it used a couple of years ago.

I haven't really tested it's lowlight capabilities yet at high gain. -9 looked a little grainy, but still a lot better than the A1. I read this afternoon that it's pretty good even at -18, but I haven't tried that yet.

Perhaps the best part is the incredible EVF. I can hold it with one hand and accurately focus with the other just using the EVF and the peaking function. Try doing that with the A1! The fold-out viewscreen is equally useful when it's on a tripod. (Don't have a rig to use with it yet.)

I was about to go for an EX1 when this EX1r became available. I really like the HDMI connection for a quick view on any TV including many hotel televisions. The EVF has proved to be more than worth the difference. Haven't used the recording cache function yet, but I know there are situations where it will be useful for me. If anyone's considering these two, watch Doug Jensen's 40-minute piece on Vimeo explaining the differences between the two to see if it's worth it for you.

This is one upgrade that I definitely am feeling good about, but even though I read everything I could about the EX1 for a couple of months while considering the purchase, there's still going to be a pretty decent learning curve for me. No buyer's remorse here with the EX1r.

Looks like I've got a lot of A1 gear that I'll be selling soon. :)

FYI ... The Vortex Media DVD on the EX1 has an extra section that includes the EX1R. It's well worth the money and will get you up to speed fast. I had to shoot a music video 2 weeks after I got mine and the DVD made that possible.