Hi everyone, I have a wedding tmrw and originally bride wanted me for 8hrs, she paid deposit and rest should be paid tmrw, BUT, yesterday I received email where she want me only for 4 hrs due to financial difficulties...
Did you had this situation?

Hi Edgar

I have had a similar situation but not at such short notice..mostly my brides will take a smaller package and a month before the wedding they will want me for longer!!

4 hours??? I would do a bridal prep..go to the ceremony and shoot the complete ceremony and congrats afterwards then at the venue do a short video shoot with just the couple and go home!! She surely cannot expect you to go to the reception !!! My "mini package" is actually 3 hours max and covers from the arrival at the ceremony venue until the photog takes them elsewhere for the photos.

You will find that she is over budget and simply cannot pay you the extra so at least do the 4 hours and essentially the ceremony and a few "frilly bits" but don't go to the reception at all!! You can always do the 4 hours and remind her how important the speeches are etc etc..she might re-consider or even daddy might pay the extra!!!

Chris

Thanks for reply Chris,
I will go to reception anyway, because I start filming at the Church, and might offer her a little discount to film the rest of the wedding as I'm sure she really wants that. I did that on my last wedding but people there was with more money....
What I'm saying is that when they booked me, on the same day I had another enquire but for 6hrs. And I went of course for 8hrs. contract. Of course I'm disappointed now and asking you guys, is it normal when brides do this things?

Hi Edgar, such is the nature of this business at this time, at least she hasn't cancelled altogether as one couple did to me last year with only a week's notice. Chris's suggestion seems sound.

It depends on your attitude to your business (and your personality) as to whether you try to enforce the contract (if you do have a signed contract). You could stand your ground and say your contract is for 8 hours so it's that or nothing, or follow Chris's suggestion and cut a smaller package for her.My thoughts are better half than nothing and trying to pursue someone for money they haven't got is a frustrating and in the end a futile exercise, and not doing anything on a point of principal only looses you money.
I'd just say I understand the situation and tell her just what she'll be getting.

I know it'll be maddening when you get to the wedding and find two photographers, a stretched limo and vintage Roller, a room full of balloons, turtle doves, chocolate fountain and all the other 'essentials' that there must be at a wedding. Video is often the thing they think they can do without or drop.

Personally I wouldn't show up to film the wedding at all with such short notice. We are paid a 50% non-refundable deposit to secure the date and the remainder a week before the wedding if the money doesn't clear in time we don't film the wedding. I've had too many problems getting money out of clients after the wedding, people will walk over you if you allow them. It's my experience that the client that undercuts you will give the most problems, if they don't respect your business they won't respect your product. You don't order a king size burger and then tell the cashier you don't have enough money please cut away half the beef patty, do you?

Hi Nicholas

Even as a fellow countryman (from Durbs!!) I have never done that and never would...it could be really bad for business!! At least do your 4 hours and get paid for it and come out as the nice guy ....to not show up and keep her money might even be a breach of contract from your side and even if it's not she certainly wouldn't recommend you to anyone else.... honey is sweeter than vinegar!!! These things happen and if she is broke you shouldn't really insist.

Chris

I agree with Chris. Kindness often costs, sometimes a lot, at least in the short term. However, it's been my experience that good people appreciate acts of kindness and remember them for a long time. In business, as in life in general, a short term loss can lead to long term rewards. There's no telling just who the bride, groom, and their families might know, and what kind of result might come later from your act of kindness.

Sure, business is business. But kindness is a good thing even in business. Kindness generates positive responses from people, and we are very much in a "people" business.

Personally, I can't help but remember all the times in my life some other business person cut me some slack. You can bet your life I did everything I could to reciprocate. Have you heard those marketing consultants talk about "raving fans?"

I've had too many problems getting money out of clients after the wedding

I work with a deposit and final payment on delivery, that means the client has to pick up the dvd's at my place, if they don't have the money with them they don't get the dvd's, simple, never had an issue since I started working like this.

If the client says they have financial issues I'd say take their proposal, at least you will get paid even if it will be less, otherwise you end up with their dvd's and an unpaid bill. I often have people take extra paid options (like interviews) at first but change their minds later on, I just take it out then, no use of going into a discussion, I get paid a bit less but end up with happy clients that will tell others about their experience and that's a good investment as well.

Awesome, didn't know you're from Durbs! Thing is Chris I've done too many favors for people in the past & never received a kind word or referral for all my hard work and many times they would be the one's bad mouthing or give us no food or seating. The clients that takes you seriously and pays up are the most courteous people the rest try to use and abuse you. I would be more forgiving with two months notice for a Friday or Sunday wedding but I wouldn't reduce their package selection I would work out a payment plan. I could have booked another wedding for their date I'm losing money and my contract is very clear and extensive on that subject, don't book me if you can't afford me. This hard lining comes from letting it slide and being disappointed, a few clients owe me money, I recently decided no more.

Hi Noa

I do much the same...1/3rd on booking, 1/3rd 2 weeks before the wedding and the final 1/3rd on delivery and never an issue!! Edgar's bride has at least come to him before the big day and said "I'm short of money" so she seems genuine!!! What if poor Edgar dis shoot 8 hours and the bride said.."I'm short I cannot pay you all your money...only half" .... as already said half a loaf is better than none...do the 4 hours and have the evening off......less editing too!!!

Chris

Edgar here's the reality. The friends will never hear she was running short on cash toward the end. What they will hear, if you would stiff them or just give them kinda crappy coverage etc, is what a crappy videographer you are. So I agree with Chris, give them some "selective" 4 hours of coverage and create something from that, that you are proud to present. Who knows you might even find a "new package" if you find you like this "selective" shooting, that you could offer to others.

I work with a deposit and final payment on delivery, that means the client has to pick up the dvd's at my place, if they don't have the money with them they don't get the dvd's, simple, never had an issue since I started working like this.

I've delivered amazing production before getting payment because I was so excited to get it to them then never got paid. I refused delivery the other day and low and behold they found a way to pay me in record time, so holding back the product does work. I'm all for giving & kindness after all weddings are a celebration of love but when it's the end of the month and bill are stacking up it gets my blood going to think people are willing to abuse my kindness so much.

I think my approach would be two pronged:

1 Find out how many "essentials" (George's definition thereof) and the fewer of them she's cancelled, the tougher I'd be, ie don't let video be the soft touch.

2 Offer them a deal eg shoot the whole wedding as per the original contract. Accept the 50% she's offering now as down payment and tell them you'll edit and deliver the contracted programme when they can afford the other half even it's months or a year away.

That way you'll get most of your money (less the interest you'd have earned on the second 50%), she'll get the programme she wanted and you'll be the good guy for making it all possible. The more they're making video the soft touch, the shorter the time I'd be prepared to wait for full payment.

Now that's why you are a successful business man Philip. A very pragmatic approach.

I think my approach would be two pronged:

1 Find out how many "essentials" (George's definition thereof) and the fewer of them she's cancelled, the tougher I'd be, ie don't let video be the soft touch.

2 Offer them a deal eg shoot the whole wedding as per the original contract. Accept the 50% she's offering now as down payment and tell them you'll edit and deliver the contracted programme when they can afford the other half even it's months or a year away.

That way you'll get most of your money (less the interest you'd have earned on the second 50%), she'll get the programme she wanted and you'll be the good guy for making it all possible. The more they're making video the soft touch, the shorter the time I'd be prepared to wait for full payment.

Philip, I like your approach! Will offer this deal to them tmrw.
Thanks again!

Here what happened at the wedding....
At the end of the day I filmed for 9hrs, Yes! not for 8hrs originally booked and then reduced to 4, but 9! I did made some discount for them, but at the end we both were happy....)

Here what happened at the wedding....
At the end of the day I filmed for 9hrs, Yes! not for 8hrs originally booked and then reduced to 4, but 9! I did made some discount for them, but at the end we both were happy....)

That's wonderful Edgar. Very often, I find myself staying longer and doing more for the couple than I originally agreed to. It gives me a great feeling to know I've gone over and above the expectations, and that perhaps I've made their big day even better. And when you enjoy doing it anyhow, it's not even work.

This will be the reality: She cut your pay in half but when you arrive, you'll see a $10,000 dress, expensive flowers, expensive limos, Surf n Turf served to the guests, a desert menu that is out of this world, etc etc. Why do you think she is out of money?

You won't find out the truth...but that wedding was quite "posh". Reality is that they think photo is more important then video, and that's what most couples think...(

I guess that if you're really serious about consistently making a big money from weddings you go into one of these businesses: dressmaking, cake-making, limo hire or become a minister, or one of the many other services that bride's will happily pay for before they book or drop a video. It was ever thus and I guess will be.
Nice one Edgar, you did work you were happy to do, earned from it and made a bride happy, isn't that what passionate video making is all about. I think that we sometimes loose site of that once the idea of making 'big money' gets involved.

I don't do weddings, but when faced with a budget cut, I put the entire decision in the clients hands, asking them to make the decision on what to cut. So I'd simply have asked what they consider most important - as in "Would you prefer me to shoot the getting ready and the wedding itself, or the wedding and the reception?" Then they make the choice, and you've remained friendly, helpful and responsive.

I've got a current project on hold, while they decide if they really need to include both factories? I've suggested doing a little more at the main site and ignoring the extra days shooting at factory two - this does mean the storyboard has to be savaged, but it can be done. Now the company are fighting internally about it, and I can just sit back and wait. Doing two shooting days at the price of one is NOT on the agenda. I'm a service industry, and not a charity. The freelance people working for me want paying per half or full day. Although I could use a few favours up and do more work myself, why would want to? Drop your price once and you have to do it again, and again and .......

I think the wedding industry must be the same. Clients talk, and always get referrals. Do you want to be known as good and worth the money, or just cheap? (or worse, some kind of 'do a deal' trader)

Hi Paul, I agree that the two business models are different.

With commercial work for businesses there is usually an assigned budget (even though it may be modified) whereas weddings tend to work to a notional budget that is very elastic and variable. I don't think that many couples really sit down and allocate specific amounts, rather they shift and shape there budget in the light of what they've spent and what they've got left.

With commercial work there is a realistic expectation by the client of what will be involved and the cost, on the other hand
with weddings the couples usually have no idea what is involved and base their expectation of cost by looking at websites, asking friends what they paid or ringing around, and anyone who has done that will know that price vary to such an extent that most couples cannot accurately know what to expect to pay until they make some deeper enquiries.

With commercial clients there is a realistic possibility of developing an ongoing relationship with repeat work, with weddings the best that can be expected is that they pass your name on to friends (then hope that you're not already booked on the date and have to pass it away).

Commercial jobs may require additional equipment or personnel be brought it at additional cost, most business would understand that and expect to pay for it, wedding clients just want it filmed, they're not too concerned with the nuts and bolts of how it will be achieve.

Most people doing weddings are 'one-man-bands' or work with a spouse or friend (I know that there are exceptions), but I think Edgar is a solo shooter. As such a wedding day feeds into a substantial part of the following weeks' work (and income). To turn away even a reduced amount of recording is throwing away all of that income.

My final comment is that commercial work tends to be a fairly straight forward commercial transaction based on achieving a targeted goal in an efficient way, whereas, on the whole, there is a lot more personality, and dare I say artistry invested in wedding work and as Edgar demonstrated even though he had negotiated a smaller production for the reduced fee, his own ambition and pride in his work caused him to go over and above the expectations, I don't think that many would be so obliging, or be expected to, for a commercial company project.

Well said George. Wedding videography is unlike any other form of video production -- a whole different beast.

I think as an individual or company, you must have a long contract with terms and conditions. In our contract it clearly states, that any reduction in hours or date change is subject to 8 months prior notice and as far as cancelation, once the contract is signed , it's 10 months. The whole argument to that is that we could have booked another date which happens and since we turned them around we need to partially make up for that.

And as Michael says, no one is out of money. They just like to try to pay you less and frankly speaking there is nothing going wrong with going above and beyond for couple but if you start sticking around for an extra hour or two one then the word will spread. Your time is valuable, get paid for it. I understand loving what you do and that's true but if this is your full time business, you should have an overtime rate. We always tell our couples during booking to get extra hours as it will cost you half the rate it will once the contract is signed and this year we have 50% of our clients go over at least 2 hours.

So I guess the bottomline, you are not worthless. Make people pay you, you are not a slave but a professional

I guess I'm a special case among most of the forum members here. Wedding videography isn't my full-time business; it's done on the side from my regular 50-hour-a-week career. I don't incur any debt from doing it, and I love being paid for something I really enjoy doing.

I also believe that people are indeed out of money at this point, in general. The majority of what people spend on weddings is on credit -- money they don't have. Being that the economy is in the state it's in right now, I'd much rather people not hire a videographer, thus not spend money they don't have, than to go deeper into debt.

I am indeed a professional, and not a "slave." I make good money doing this, but also love to serve others with what I'm able to do.

Corey,
I wasn't suggesting that you take advantage of people's debt. The point I was trying to make is if anyone for that matter does stuff for discount and less money or no money, people will expect more and those are the people that will give you hard time.

I agree with economy and all but we as professionals including yourself have a responsibility to make video production a valuable service. In the very beginning about 4 years ago few weddings we did, it seemed people didn't have money but when you go to reception and what else they booked, they were over 100,000$ wedding. Yes in these tough times it's wrong to spend that much but at the same time if people have the money or credit to spend so much on everything and when it comes to us they have no or little money left, that's what we need to change.

Hi Jawad.
It's all very well have such terms and conditions but the situation that Edgar was put in was with only a couple of days notice, and in general terms that was the situation I was addressing.

What would be your action be in that circumstance?

As I see it if they contact you with just days to go and say they haven't got the money to pay you have a few options. Stand firm on your contract and say there is no get-out and if they break the contract you will pursue them for the balance owed, or accept their situation and negotiate a new deal as Edgar did?
Not necessarily the one they are asking for, maybe delayed editing and extended payment terms .

As I see it with option one you spend time and possibly legal costs and end up with a distressed and angry couple who will go out of their way to blacken your name but with the second you'll have a couple who will be very grateful and happy to tell their friends how helpful you have been. If those referrals arrive with expectations of a cheaper deal at least it will be before the booking and you can either convince them of your full worth or decline the booking or ask for full payment before the wedding. I don't think many people make a booking months ahead of time thinking 'we'll beat him down days before the wedding'.

Unlike Cory, weddings contribute 50-60% of my business income, video production is my self-employed job, but I have a similar ethic as Cory I don't want to be party to people getting into deep financial trouble. Anyone who contacts me before the day and negotiates a new deal is fine, I don't encourage it or like it, but I'm a realist. I'd much rather that than they tell me afterwards when I have done the work for them. I take half payment as a booking fee which they loose to me if they pull out so it's to their benefit to negotiate something for that money and I really don't want to take money from someone with no return. Okay so it may mean that I turned down the possibility of another wedding but that's the nature of the business. If this was a regular occurrence, or I discovered that there's a website which lists those videographers who are a soft touch and that was where they were getting the idea from I may revise my position.

Having read your second post I'll just add that if I did turn up at the wedding on a smaller deal and saw that I was the only service they'd cut then they would only get a bear minimum production with staying over and above. In the end it would be a matter of how I felt there attitude was.

Jawad,

I know what you're saying. You're right -- we should all be working to make video a more highly-valued commodity.

I think a lot of the problem is that unlike a lot of the other things couples spend their money on for their weddings, video doesn't really add to their wedding party/guests' enjoyment of the celebration (neither does photography). The things like food, drinks, flowers, decorations, DJ's, bands, limos, etc., all bring more enjoyment to the day itself.

Video and photography generally don't contribute at all to the celebration (in a lot of cases they can hinder the enjoyment). They are of value to the couple only, and maybe their immediate family and some friends. The rest of the people at the wedding couldn't care less about whether or not there's a video.

I think a lot of couples see it as a luxury item, which it is to a certain extent. Convincing them otherwise is part of our job.

In my long experience this sort of situation is quite rare, I'd be interested to know how many people really do have this sort of thing happen to them on any sort of regular basis. We may be getting the whole thing out of proportion.

I've just totted up and to the best of my recollection in over twenty years I had about five cancellations, and a couple of postponements and if I remember correctly I was able to re-book all but two.

George,
We have had 3 cancelations and 1 postponed. But I was referring to bride calling and saying now I need you for four hours last minute. That's just trying to pull out after her budget which went up and I am sure video wasn't the only service she contacted and the fact it ended up 9 hours someone must have given her discount.

I guess I'm a special case among most of the forum members here. Wedding videography isn't my full-time business; it's done on the side from my regular 50-hour-a-week career. I don't incur any debt from doing it, and I love being paid for something I really enjoy doing.

I also believe that people are indeed out of money at this point, in general. The majority of what people spend on weddings is on credit -- money they don't have. Being that the economy is in the state it's in right now, I'd much rather people not hire a videographer, thus not spend money they don't have, than to go deeper into debt.

I am indeed a professional, and not a "slave." I make good money doing this, but also love to serve others with what I'm able to do.

Corey, I'm your neighbor here in NJ and the economy has not hurt the wedding business at all. My #'s have grown steadily the past few years. No one is paying me with credit cards..always a personal check.

Corey, I'm your neighbor here in NJ and the economy has not hurt the wedding business at all. My #'s have grown steadily the past few years. No one is paying me with credit cards..always a personal check.

Hi Michael,

I was talking in general terms, not just the wedding business. This is my first year back into weddings in about 10 years, so I really have no comparison at this point. So far this year, I've had about half credit cards and half checks as payment . . . back in the 90's, I saw a ton of credit cards.

George,
We have had 3 cancelations and 1 postponed. But I was referring to bride calling and saying now I need you for four hours last minute. That's just trying to pull out after her budget which went up and I am sure video wasn't the only service she contacted and the fact it ended up 9 hours someone must have given her discount.

It seems that some are fortunate to work in a market where the economy is not driving customers to look for discounts or smaller productions. In every area there will be those who are not really effected by the larger economy. My take is still that I'd rather have half a cake than non at all, I know others value their time so much that they rather stay at home and earn nothing than feel cheated by a customer.

If I was getting 110 full paying clients a year as some on here are, I wouldn't be offering discounts.

Frankly speaking Economy hasn't hit us at all. There is always talk and people tend to spend more on anything than video. That has been reality but slowly many others here, somewhere else, us are all trying to change that.

From what I have been told by couples is that most of them hold video last because they have this perception of big huge cameras with lights and crappy product but now that's changing. And it's not about rather sitting home and doing nothing than getting discounts. I do understand in the beginning you have to offer discounts to get your name out, believe me, we all do, I did as well but if you continue to offer that than you are undermining your work and if you don't value your time, no one in the industry will or your clients. It's not an argument but sheer reality.

I bet you there are 80% of those on this forum who charge half of what they should be charging. Not because they like giving discounts but they are afraid that couple will say NO. And honestly there is nothing wrong with that. NO doesn't mean end of the world. People will come to you if your work is good and like I said there are a lot of people on this forum who's work is good.

No offense but based solely on posts 22 and 23, George and Corey don't appear to know much about the REALITIES of commercial video production. The ASSUMPTION that every commercial video is for a deep pockets corporation with willingness to spend money to increase production value is ludicrous.

I work mostly alone and have for 12 years, bringing in freelancers as necessary and we have EXACTLY the same sorts of discussions with our clients as you do. Especially around conventions and conferences: "we overspent on catering so we need you to do more for less now".

As discussed previously, a negotiation takes place about what is proposed to be cut and/or where the additional resources need to come from.

I understand that a wedding is more PERSONAL than a best practices, training or promo video or convention multicam coverage but to suggest that we are free of financial constraints, often last minute, is untrue. In fact, I often deal with event planners (not unlike folks planning a wedding...) who are MAJORLY stressed that they have overspent and have "run out" of money and that THEY are worried about THEIR reputation if they can't deliver what they promised. Often these folks see the "pie in the sky" world of video production as the area where they can save. Sometimes I'm able to help, sometimes they NEED to find more cash. Which is why I TRY to engage clients in discussion as EARLY in the process as I can... Which almost never happens! <laughs>

The only thing I can EXPECT from a lot of my clients (who are often sole proprietors or small entrepreneurial businesses) in the way of ongoing business is a referral.

There are far more similarities than differences.

No offense but based solely on posts 22 and 23, George and Corey don't appear to know much about the REALITIES of commercial video production.

Hi Shaun,

No offense taken. However, I've been in the commercial video production field for over 15 years now. I've been a part of about every imaginable form of commercial video production -- events, legal, corporate, TV, movies, web, documentary, etc. -- and I quite understand the realities of the field.

When you're working solely in the wedding video market, you've got to use a much different business model than most other kinds of video. Most likely, you're dealing directly with Joe off the street. He's much different in his expectations and willingness to spend money than, say, a corporate or legal client.

Wedding video production is unlike any other.

To add to that I do think weddings and corporate are different in many ways but not much depending on your skills. I have been in production for 10 years...both wedding, corporate and whatever else you can imagine. I find that in the beginning, I was a slow shooter and always took forever to set up a shot and believe me people who do that are awesome and there is nothing wrong with that but after doing 100 odd weddings, I always know exactly what I want, whether it's a music video, concept, corporate, short film. Yes planning is always there but you have to make quick decisions in weddings and I find that has helped me become a better director, filmmaker, editor etc.

As far as discount is concerned, it depends on your target market not industry. As a starter I used to be asked by small companies and not so high budget wedding clients for discount. Now that both our businesses are established, there are handful who ask for discount and that's because they are oddly from the wrong market that we target.

Bottom line in my opinion, who you targetting. Is it 20 Big fishes a year or 50 small fishes a year?

Edgar,

That's why I require the balance 10 days prior to the wedding. I have then sign a contract stating the amount at the time of the deposit and if that is not the amount paid, I reserve the right to cancel and keep the deposit. I've actually done it twice where they wanted to do to me what they did to you.

Edgar, you kindly responded that you were going to put my suggestion (which would have left you with the same original price/contract but with production and payment spread over a longer period) to your clients. In the end you compromised and worked longer for slightly less.

I'm not questioning your decision but I would like to know what your clients objected to in my option.

Finally with 30 years of commercial and corporate production experience I think Shaun is dead wrong; there are fundamental differences. Weddings are one-off and retail. Commercial/corporate is (hopefully) repeat business (I had one blue chip client for almost the entire 30 years) and funded on a business basis. Those two characteristics alone make a huge difference.

It's clear there are big differences in the business models. In one, we do the work and they invoice and sometimes they pay within the 30 day terms, but frequently 60 days is too common. The wedding people seem to get their money up front, before they've even done any work. This is great for them, and I wish I could do the same - but it does seem to be a cause of the bollshiness we often read about. They pay a fair sum up front, and wait a fair while for the product, which they may like, or not. This does sort of give them permission to make changes. It causes bad feeling, and tension. However, with the business model of money in the bank before work, I guess you can live with it. It's better than my business model where I work for free for two months and then hopefully get paid!

Once again I find that the responses are making this a lively debate with some passionately held views. The way that some of the arguments become polarised goes to show that the diverse community that contributes to DVinfo cannot provide a panacea for a sound business model.

Different goals, resources, markets, skills and even personality makes defining the correct way to conduct business impossible. It all too quickly turns into 'camps' who delight in gainsaying others' experiences or business ethic, I recognise my own compliance in this.

Hi Guys

I do both and my wedding business model demands 2/3rd's up front and the balance on delivery..maybe this is because it's a one off job and if they never get to pay you there is no "I'll never do any more jobs for you cos you didn't pay for the last one" Hence the upfront terms.

I do regular Realty shoots for two Realtors and I'm lucky as they usually pay me within 7 days but then again this is all repeat business and I'm virtually doing weekly shoots for them (I think I was close to 160 shoots in the last tax year which equalled my wedding income and it's still ongoing so even if I had to wait 30 days I'd be pretty happy.

My feelings on wedding payments are much like Philip...they must show a decent amount of faith by paying a substantial amount upfront and I do the same and shoot their wedding, but as it's a one-off with no chance of repeat business (from them) I do need them to pay the balance on delivery!!
I haven't ever been let down yet!!

Chris

George, don't beat yourself up about your principles or the way you express them; I know we're friends but I don't think anyone reading them would consider your postings "gainsaying others".

What I would be prepared to add to my other comments on this thread is that very few if any commercial/corporate programme makers are amateurs - they simply wouldn't be able to service or supply the market.

The fact that there seem to be so many amateurs or hobbyists in the wedding business is what gets it its bad reputation. For example, that guy swearing when the camera fell over simply wouldn't get paid if he was working for a corporate client. It's hardly surprising the wedding clients think of video as a low priority and that they can press us on price.

And that's where this business of getting paid comes in. I'll go so far as to say it's unconscionable greed to demand full payment before doing a stroke of work. Half plus a deposit is more than enough security before the date. To say that it's standard practice is no excuse and doesn't make it any better.

George, don't beat yourself up about your principles or the way you express them; I know we're friends but I don't think anyone reading them would consider your postings "gainsaying others".

What I would be prepared to add to my other comments on this thread is that very few if any commercial/corporate programme makers are amateurs - they simply wouldn't be able to service or supply the market.

The fact that there seem to be so many amateurs or hobbyists in the wedding business is what gets it its bad reputation. For example, that guy swearing when the camera fell over simply wouldn't get paid if he was working for a corporate client. It's hardly surprising the wedding clients think of video as a low priority and that they can press us on price.

And that's where this business of getting paid comes in. I'll go so far as to say it's unconscionable greed to demand full payment before doing a stroke of work. Half plus a deposit is more than enough security before the date. To say that it's standard practice is no excuse and doesn't make it any better.

I agree. I wouldn't pay any service in full until the work was completed.