Something lovely happened yesterday. Lorinda Norton offered to take the reins of UWOL.

Now the undisputed Queen of Online Production Contests, Lorinda is gonna make this easy for us all.

UWOL will now be run according to rules more similar to the DV Challenge. This will streamline the process for her and for everyone. It'll also make it easier for cross-contest entries, I hope, if we all play by similar rules.

She'll post a write-up soon of how it is done "up there" for us "down under" and we'll make it a sticky, so you can refer to it.

Stay tuned. And a big thanks to Lorinda for jumping in and keeping the UWOL flame alive at DVinfo. You are in good hands. And she is about to make a whole new pile of friends, all over the world.

Hey UWOLers! I was thinking about how embarrassing it is that my last time here was a few weeks ago...admitting defeat in getting an entry submitted for the UWOL fun challenge. :) But I did complete one a few years back so at least I have an inkling as to how difficult they can be. And several of you have joined in the fun of the DVC/UWOL Charity Challenge so we already know each other.

As Dylan Couper is still master of the DVC so Meryem is still mistress of UWOL; I'm just going to be riding herd on things for her so she can devote her time to tending her many irons in the fire. Rule changes won't be a big deal so no worries there.

UWOL 21 underway...check! Birds, fish, reptiles, amphibians...check! Have fun shooting!

Lorinda, a big thank you for taking over uwol!

Lorinda, thank-you very much for assuming the reins. “Rule changes won't be a big deal so no worries there”? Since we are changing horses in the middle of the stream (literally changing the rules in the middle of a contest), I would appreciate a statement of the new rules now, that is, as early in the production process as possible. I never play DVC because some of it’s rules are unacceptable to me. Many worries here, ma’am.

Hi Mike,

I haven't had time to get anything in writing for Meryem to view yet, so if you would be so kind as to send me an email (found in my profile) about the DVC rules that you find unacceptable I'll make sure and address them with you right away. Chances are pretty good we can leave most things the way they are for this round. Thanks.

Mostly what will change about the contest is a long-overdue overhaul of how we compress, upload, and judge. We have three weeks to sort it all out, so there is no need for pre-suffering.

Your worst-case scenario is that you succeed in making a short film, in that time.

Hi Lorinda.
Welcome as the new leader of uwol.
It's very kind of you to take on this role, and very much appreciated if I may say so.

All the best from Norway :)

Yes, and it was wrong of me not to have expressed my concerns off-list to begin with. I don’t wish anyone to misconstrue any of my comments as nonconstructive. I was also remiss in not pointing out that there are some of the DVC rules that I like very much, indeed. I hope everyone understands that I am quite confident that we are in very good hands going forward.

Meryem- “Worst” case? Finishing is never a given around here, is it?! Swimming with the sharks is a real Rule 11 breaker. ;)

Lorinda! Our new ruler has arrived!

Thanks, all you guys. Most kind. Markus, your comment gave me a good laugh! :)

Got your email, Mike. Thanks--we're workin' on it!

Hi Lorinda

A big thank you for taking on the huge task of running this challenge!

Uploading, compression, hosting, storage etc. for UWOL will be provided to all contestants free of charge via DV Info Net.

....And with a tip of his hat, the good guy on the tall horse rides on...

You are the best, CH! :)

...and just ask him nicely, and he might even shoot your entry for you, too!

We don't always appreciate exactly what is involved in having an opportunity to compete in a challenge like this and that someone has to pay for us to have this privilege, so on behalf of the players "A very big thank you!!" to all involved for your generosity both over the years and now and for giving us a place to archive our films!

Lorinda,

Thank you so much for taking the responsibility to let the UWOL challenge move forward.

I was just thinking about the upload rule changes that are to be announced, and thought I would offer a suggestion.

How about setting up a designated UWOL Channel on Vimeo? Participants would upload their videos to their own accounts and then add the videos to the UWOL Channel. This would minimize compression mishaps, and centralize the videos in one place. It would also create more awareness of the UWOL challenge to the public (possibly).

Just an idea!

Simon,
Every film from UWOL 1 to 20 are already centralized in one place. If you go to uwolchallenge.com you can watch every film submitted.
For as much trouble as we had with compression and upload issues, it's pretty damn impressive to have such a library of nature and wildlife films all theme based to see how other filmmakers approached the challenge.
I always worry with Vimeo, YouTube, ExposureRoom that the terms of service will change, people will delete their videos and we've lost a lot of good assets.

It's amazing to look back at the early challenges and see the progression of the filmmakers as they learned from their peers work as well as the constructive criticism they received.

Ah yes that's true; good points.

I guess this suggestion was partly because I'm having real problems trying to get my video out on the previous UWOL compression guidelines - its just not happening. I'm going to keep at it for another day, after which I'll have to throw in the towel as I have to head off to do work elsewhere.

The problem I'm anticipating is that even if I get to grips with the old guidelines and have something presentable ready by tomorrow, then the new guidelines will come out and I'd have to start over. Oh well.

*edit* - ok, I managed to get a reasonable version out which should meet the old UWOL guidelines; it came in at 47mbs. It looks a bit washed out, but should work if I cant get anything better!

... I managed to get a reasonable version out which should meet the old UWOL guidelines; it came in at 47mbs. It looks a bit washed out, but should work if I cant get anything better!
I'm relieved to hear that Simon! If you can believe it, we're still trying to work out a solution that will benefit and be acceptable to anyone who wishes to participate. Kevin is invaluable in this process. Stay tuned...

Chris is slammed and hasn't had time to set up our account yet, but with three days left before the deadline I thought we'd better have some things in writing for all of you. Much of the wording is exactly as it was, with the main changes being length of time for completion (#1) guidelines on uploading (#7 with attention to #8) and the judging (#9). Many thanks to Meryem for her helpful suggestions!

1. Timings – The UWOL Challenge will run 4 times per year: March, June, September, plus the annual DVC/UWOL Charity Challenge every December. With the exception of the varying dates and rules of the charity challenge, each one will begin on the 1st of the month. A sign-up thread will be posted on DV Info Net in the UWOL forum one week before the challenge begins. Contestants are required to sign up for each challenge separately. Once the thread closes on the start date for the challenge, no new players will be admitted for that challenge. Players have one month to shoot, edit and post their videos online. This gives at least three full weekends for participants to travel to new and difficult-to-reach locations with their gear.

2. Signing Up – You must sign up for a free account at DV Info Net. You will need to do this so you can access the sign-up thread in our dedicated “Under Water Over Land” forum on DV Info Net.

3. Contest Topic – On the first of the month, a theme will be posted into a new thread on the UWOL forum at DV Info Net.

4. Production – Submissions should be 2-3 minutes in length. Entries exceeding the 3-minute limit can be posted on the site but will be disqualified from judging. Credits are excluded from the 3-minute limit.

5. Material – Material must be original and shot for the purpose of being judged in the current contest. Previously shot footage, as long as it is just a clip or two for educational or illustrative purposes, was shot specifically for UWOL (not stock footage) and does not exceed 10% of the total is permissible. The use of effects templates from Motion and After Effects, Livetype, etc. is permissible, without limits. You retain the rights to your video.

6. Music – All music must be fully licensed. If you use copyrighted materials (music or other copyrighted works) be prepared to show us proof that you own the right to use it. Without proof, we will remove your video from the site. You have the option of providing us with an image-only version, in the event we are forced to remove it, since our goal is to enable players to make beautiful images to develop good production practices.

7. Submissions – All finished videos will be uploaded to the UWOL Challenge account on Vimeo Pro, an account provided by Chris Hurd of DV Info Net especially for the UWOL Challenge. There will be no charge for contestants. Details of the Vimeo Pro hosting service may be found at http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/digital-video-industry-news/499075-vimeo-launches-pro-service.html. Players are also encouraged to post links to additional copies of their videos from their personal Web sites in their feedback threads, if desired.

It is your responsibility to be sure that the Challenge coordinator has your most up-to-date e-mail address so that the challenge coordinator can forward you the Vimeo password during submissions week. If you don't send the e-mail, you won't receive the required upload clearance. At the deadline, the password will be changed, submissions will be locked, and no new submissions will be admitted. Please send your email information to uwol@dvinfo.net.

8. For players concerned about possible usage of their material by Vimeo, as outlined in its TOS, a watermark, such as © Jane Doe, 2011, may be displayed throughout the video and would not affect the judging of its content.

9. Judging – All players who submit a video automatically become judges in that round, with the exception of the DVC/UWOL Charity Challenge, where donors to the charity pool also vote. Videos will be available for viewing and feedback after the deadline. At any time after that, judges may send their votes for the top three videos by email to uwol@dvinfo.net. In your email, include the player’s name and title of video along with the placement (#1 #2 #3). One vote per judge/team, and no voting for your own video. Videos should be judged 50% on best use of theme and 50% on overall production value.

10. Winners – On rounds with high numbers of submissions, 1st, 2nd and 3rd place winners will be announced, along with honorable mention for videos receiving three or more votes. In the event of lower numbers of submissions, fewer rankings may be posted as a courtesy to lower-ranked videos. When available, prizes will be awarded to winners.

11. Fun – Oh, and last but definitely not least, all participants must have fun!

These guidelines are subject to revision without notice

About rule #1, because of the current challenge, obviously, we won't be having one in September this year. So be ready to have a blowout in December with the charity challenge!

Overall, the new rules look good. Many thanks to everyone that have worked so hard behind the scenes to bring this about. I’m still completely at a loss how to go about posting video to what is, in essence, someone else’s Vimeo account (Pro or otherwise). When the time finally comes I will need explicit instructions, please. Might I suggest you append this Compression Guidelines on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/help/compression) to Rule 7?

It would have been nice to know about the changes outlined in Rule 5 earlier. I, for one, could have made a better video this time. Oh, well.

For the record, I am not in the least concerned about possible usage of my material by Vimeo, nor the attendant increase in my liability. I don’t think it will happen. I simply feel that the policy is exploitative and don’t like having to imply my approval. I will watermark my video. I just don’t think that doing so, in any way, addresses the underlying problem. Oh, well- them’s the breaks. It seems I will have seven long months to think about it.

Thanks Lorinda and Chris. A very interesting turn of events.

So a 3 minute video could have up to 18 seconds of previously shot footage, assuming it had been specifically shot for a previous UWOL entry?

I'm also not clear on how we will upload to the Vimeo account? Will Chris Hurd release the password to us closer to the time, or do we email him the videos and he uploads them himself? Bear in mind that if a Channel was set up then we could just link in our videos directly from our own accounts.

Either way I think the new rules will make everything a lot easier when it comes to compression, so I'm glad to have joined your group at this juncture!

Looking forward to see what everyone came up with.

So a 3 minute video could have up to 18 seconds of previously shot footage, assuming it had been specifically shot for a previous UWOL entry?
Yes, that's about it. This plus the use of effects templates was added to the rules because of (as I understand it) previously-granted requests in prior UWOL challenges.

Instructions for uploading to the UWOL Vimeo Pro account will be provided as soon as the account is set up. Chris will be hands-off once that is done (he's got way too many other irons in the fire!). It is my understanding that we'll all have access to the password and just upload directly to it, but let me find out for sure. Should be pretty straightforward--you compress your video as you would for a regular Vimeo account and then upload directly once I get the word and pass it along to all of you.

Well I have finally finished my entry, just awaiting further instructions. I got very lucky, last week I had to go to Jacksonville, Florida for a few days. This provided my with the opertnity to take a little detour and finish my project.

I want to throw this out as an idea, how about next time we do a challenge, as a ringer, we are allowed to include say 20% of our footage as existing stock footage that we shot for past challenges. Just a thought. Bob

I’m still completely at a loss how to go about posting video to what is, in essence, someone else’s Vimeo account (Pro or otherwise). Hi Mike, basically it's going to be a generic VPro account available to all UWOL participants. It's billed to my credit card, so I guess you could say it's my account, but it's for everyone here to use. I suppose we'll change the upload password each round, and email that password to the participants.

For the record, I am not in the least concerned about possible usage of my material by Vimeo, nor the attendant increase in my liability. I don’t think it will happen. I simply feel that the policy is exploitative and don’t like having to imply my approval. I will watermark my video. I just don’t think that doing so, in any way, addresses the underlying problem.We're practically neighbors, Mike, and I'm in the San Antonio area frequently. I'd be happy to meet you for lunch sometime soon to discuss your concerns in greater detail. I know most of the key folks at Vimeo, including their general manager. I've known their marketing director for a very long time before she worked for Vimeo. They're great people, honestly. I can probably get a better idea of how you feel about this if we can meet in person and talk it over.

I’d love to meet you anytime, Chris, if for no other reason than to shake your hand and say thank-you for DVI.

Because of Chris and his generosity, UWOL Challenge has a new home on Vimeo Pro. Thank you so much, Chris!

He brought up a crucial point that I missed including in the rules about emailing the password to each participant, so now would be a good time for all of you to shoot an email to uwol@dvinfo.net in order to receive it.

Bear with us, folks. We're getting there!

Hi Lorinda.

1) As I read the rules, I read them as there are no limitation on format/size of the video file.
Is this correct?
Do we have to upload to the Vimeo Pro or can we use our own Vimeo Plus account?

Or...

2) Do we have to use the Vimeo Pro account to upload the video being judged and then we can put a link in our feedback tread, from our own Vimeo account?

I have another question about rendering, but I'll take it in the "wonder and woe" tread :)

Geir Inge

We're going with #2 in your post, Geir! :) That way all the videos will be in one place. I'm still trying to figure out Vimeo Pro but it looks like you all will upload your videos just like you would in your other Vimeo accounts, then I'll move them into the portfolio dedicated to UWOL 21. If there is a way to upload them directly to that portfolio I haven't found it yet. Eventually, I will try to make portfolios to accomodate prior challenges, but that will be a huge undertaking, involving uploading every past video. The plan is for the winning video to be the "portrait" video for that challenge.

And yes to your first question--no file size limit for uploading to the Vimeo Pro account. I did follow their recommendation and not request that the source files be saved. So yes, again--those of you with Vimeo Plus and your own Web sites are encouraged to post videos from those on your feedback threads if you'd like.

Lorinda
Thanks for the answer and fast response :)

Regarding rule #7

Caveat: As the subject of Vimeo T&Cs has been raised as a problem may I raise yet another, perhaps more important problem that all players here should be aware of?

It is a fact that even if you set your video on Vimeo to “not downloadable”, it is NOT protected at all. (Nor, incidentally, is it protected on any other website including personal ones.) There are many free software packages (including screen capture software) designed to override this ‘protection’!

Now this is only important in view of the fact that many of us are understandably keen to put up the best quality – the cleanest, sharpest footage possible, but unfortunately it is open to abuse by unethical, dishonest people. It has been stated before on this forum that two players have had some of their footage actually broadcast on TV without their prior knowledge or permission!

It is for this reason that I personally made the choice some time ago to upload my work highly compressed and plastered with a copyright watermark. Quite frankly, for me “Soft and mushy” is just fine. As long as I have the original footage safely stored and it is crisp and clean I am not too worried about how it looks on the Uwol Challenge website or on Vimeo as long as it is reasonable enough to be watched and judged. To me it is far more important for us as amateur videographers to get the technique of movie-making right without having to worry about the absolute necessity for crisp clean compression. While this is obviously a personal choice I believe that we should strive to get the story, filming and editing right first. In the end it really boils down to how much you value your footage. I for one won’t be uploading high quality compression for these challenges.

Hope this helps

Good point, Marj. While I don’t really worry about Vimeo using any of my footage, I just assume that it will be stolen by members of the public- mostly without intended malice. I started watermarking (lightly I hope). More even than limiting quality, for me it means filtering which clips I will use. For example, some of the clips from last time I would not have used under the new rules. Even though I only ever linked to that video from my feedback thread somehow it got out. I have been contacted four times asking permission to use the cave salamander footage (without compensation, of course!) and, no doubt, eventually I will see it used somewhere without permission. I think that is just the nature of the internet, unfortunately. If it had been on Vimeo (or to be fair any other similar service) it would have just been worse!

Quite frankly, for me “Soft and mushy” is just fine.

I hope no one took offense at my suggestions earlier. It wasn't my desire to force you to change the way you do things around here, only offer advice such that no one had to be stuck with lower quality output than they wanted.

I can't say I agree with the idea of intentional compression artifacts (or watermarks) as a way to try to protect your content, but if you do it that way it should be a choice, not something you're forced to live with; I'm sorry if my remarks seemed confrontational, that was never my intent.

I think I can safely speak for Marj and anyone else in saying your earlier remarks weren't taken as confrontational or offensive. The idea is to keep a pristine copy safe while putting up a "less than desireable for pirating" version online.

On another note, anyone who wants to put up a feedback thread early is very welcome to do so, and I'll just lock 'em up until Sept. 1. :)

Lorinda,
I think the new rules seem fine. (With the #11 as the most important one of course)

Regarding the file size:
I see there is no limits to the file size or image size we can upload. Does this mean that we can upload anything from SD to 1080p?
I can see a potential "problem" with the 50GB yearly limit if enough players upload big "full hd" videos 4 times a year.

There is that "happy" potential, Trond. Too bad we can't roll over storage space from this year to next, since we're barely going to put a dent in it this year. We'll see what Chris wants to do for 2012.

Robert
No there is nothing offensive in what you said at all :) . . . just needed to make sure everyone here knows what they are getting into when putting up pristine footage.

Mike
It was those girls I tell you! :) . . . bet they are very proud of your film!

Trond
Re Rule #1 – guess you’ll be organizing another fun video before December hey? :)

Lorinda said that she has it set so Vimeo won't save the source files. So even if you upload a two gig file, Vimeo is going to compress it and dump the source file. I think 50gig will do us for a while.

*slaps forehead* Well, of course. Thank you for clearing that up, Kevin! :)

As for a fun challenge between now and December, I think it's a great idea, especially for shooters who get to enjoy the distinct four seasons. Sure would hate to miss out on seeing the colors and wildlife antics that can go along with the change in season.

Trond
Re Rule #1 – guess you’ll be organizing another fun video before December hey? :)
You never know what might happen :)
(But due to my workload the next 2 months, I am not sure if I will be able to participate or organize anything before late October/early November, which will be (too?) close to the annual DVC/UWOL charity challenge in December)

I was just wondering about the UWOL website ( The UWOL Challenge - Wildlife & Outdoor based film competition (http://www.uwolchallenge.com) ) - will this continue to be the main hub for the competition with videos hyper-linked through to the vimeo account?

I noticed that the Film Vault there only goes up to Challenge 20 and the Winners Circle only goes up to Challenge 19 (I figured I'd mention that last one as I need a place to direct people to make use of bragging rights - I don't win too many competitions so I need to make the most of it)!

Simon, I believe we're just going to put links on the UWOL Web site and gravitate more toward the Vimeo Pro account. Thanks for making me move on this--I had *ahem* kind of forgotten about it. :)

UWOL 21 entries have been moved to the portfolio. I think the portfolio looks kind of cool...let me know if you agree! UWOL 21 (http://vimeopro.com/user8310268/uwol-21)

I was really hoping to see the UWOL Challenge site morph into something that looks kind of like this:

Videoworks Showcase (http://www.videoguru.co.nz/)

That's DVi member Josh Dahlberg's site -- made with Vimeo Pro, and done entirely on his own domain, no Vimeo branding anywhere.

See his feedback about it here: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/digital-video-industry-news/499075-vimeo-launches-pro-service-2.html#post1674385

The concept I had in mind was to use the Vimeo Pro account to flesh out the UWOL Challenge site and to embed clips right here in the forum -- not to drive traffic to Vimeo. They're great folks and all, and the V Pro account is a wonderful thing, but the whole idea behind using Vimeo Pro is to keep eyeballs where they belong, which is here, and to build up the UWOL Challenge site.

Toward that end, what I'd like to see for the next UWOL Challenge round is all entries embedded in their own players right here on the forum. No need to click away to Vimeo or anywhere else. That's one of the main reasons why I bought the V Pro account, to build up the UWOL / DVi brand -- not Vimeo's. Thanks for understanding and please take a good look at Josh's site, linked above. That's what I had in mind for the UWOL Challenge.

Hmm...okay, I get what you have in mind. What I'm not understanding, yet, is how to make it happen. I'll study Josh's posts and do some research, then if things still don't click I'll get a sharper mind involved. Your wish is my wish, CH. :)

Holy Canoli! Josh's site is just the type I want to create, with extra pages etc. but I had no idea VimeoPro was the key.

Hi Lorinda, thanks for that - I will direct people to that link for the time being (looks cool). It will be interesting to see what you and Chris come up with for the final site; I'm sure it will be grand once all the inevitable teething problems of setting up the new format are sorted out. Thanks for all your hard work, it is much appreciated!

Wow, it was amazing to find I hadn't visited the site since August 2nd, and then to find so much has changed with UWOL. Mostly for the better, I think. I am really impressed with the UWOL portfolio on VimeoPro. I haven't had time to watch the entries yet (didn't have time to finish my own entry, either - I still need two more clips and some editing time) but I know I've got something good to look forward too - the visual quality is so much better than the UWOL archive now that compression isn't such a problem.

Congratulation to those who did get an entry in, and thanks Lorinda for emailing me about the extended deadline - unfortunately circumstances were against me this time.

If you've noticed that nothing has been done on the Vimeo page yet it's because there was more to it than meets the eye. As soon as Chris gets time to do some admin stuff I'll get busy trying to revamp the look. Thanks for your patience.

In the meantime, for those of you who have been wanting to shoot something again, get ready for the charity challenge! We're running it a lot earlier this year (Nov. 10 through Dec. 10). Stay tuned for details. I'll post the sign up in the charity challenge forum very soon and then run a notice here on UWOL.