I will most likely order the VG-20 when available. I own a XH-A1 and shoot events. Id like to try my hand at movie style shooting, and the VG-20 is in my price range.

Question:
Would the VG-20 18-200mm lens model take care of most of my needs, or do you think I should order the "body only" model? What lens would be a "must have" starter lens for movie style shooting wide close ups.

Jeff

Actually, I have the same question. If you seek out reviews, you'll find users tend to either love it or hate it. Photozone gave it a fairly good review, as did Ken Rockwell. PZ praised the build quality (better then most in this price range) and didn't hate the optics. Ken pointed out that on the long end it's great for portraits - better a fixed lens at 50mm anyway.

It has positives - great do anything focal range, decent build quality + optics, and it's the only big zoom that will totally communicate with E mount cameras.

Negatives - it's slow - real slow. Optics, while good, will never match even a decent Nikon or Canon prime, and certainly can't touch higher end glass. Because it's a an E mount, there's going to be less potential for it keeping it's value upon resale (simply a much smaller potential buyer pool then if it was a Nikon or Canon).

Intangibles - I personally think it's a sweet looking lens. Which goes a long way in convincing people you're a "real" movie maker on a low budget indie, or if you're a first time feature maker, or if there's a skittish bride-to-be.

It's slow lens, but all the NEX cameras released this year seem to be very good in low light - even the inexpensive 5n. And being slow isn't always a negative - it relieves at least some of the need for a mattebox/filters when shooting outdoors.

That said, $600 can buy a lot of lens that, other than the full connectivity to the camera, are technically better (Tamron 17-50mm, The Tonk, lots of Nikon glass) - but again, they won't autofocus and the like - and you have to buy an adapter. Canon compatible glass in particular will be a bi#$@ to use because you won't e able to change the F-stop.

And of course, there's a good chance that Sony will be coming out with another huge range zoom next year.

Long response I know, but here's my bottom line: If you're going to be shooting a narrative film or video I'd think primes are a better bet. But if you're run and gunning, doing event work, or weddings, I'd think the 18-200mm is pretty much a no-brainer.

A big sack full of primes would be super for "film-making", but is going to be expensive.
I have found that the 18mm-200mm E lens with a Vari ND filter, plus a single fast (f-1.4/1.8) prime in the 24mm to 50mm range specifically for low light shooting will cover an awful lot of bases.
IMO, it's a good starting point- you can always add additional lenses later.

Thanks John and Robert....

Yes,..seems the VG 20 with zoom and a prime is the way to go for my money. I will wait 'til January or longer before getting the cam....by then maybe Canon or others will one-up Sony's VG-20. : ?)

Jeff

Or RED....

The RED and Canon cams are likely to be above the $2K price point of the VG20 -- but we'll see on November 3rd ;-)

On lens choices, I'm leaning away from the $800 SEL 18200 and towards the $400 LA-EA2 Alpha mount adapter (http://www.adorama.com/ISOLAEA2.html), which opens the door to the wide range of Alpha-compatible lenses and (at least according to Sony) full auto exposure and PDAF.

With a $200 Sigma 18-50mm f2.8-4.5 with quiet hypersonic focus motor and a $170 Sigma 70-300mm f4.5-5.6, I'll spend about the same amount of money, gain an extra f-stop at the wide end, and cover most of the 18-200's zoom range.

Cheers,

Bill
Hybrid Camera Revolution (http://hybridcamerarevolution.blogspot.com)

Well, the lens is "only" $600 when purchased as part of a kit, while the body only version will cost around $1,600, so it's not quite so bad. For what it's worth, I just did an ebay search and didn't find any used ones - meaning people who get them with a kit tend not to be selling them.

The $400 adapter will be slower to focus then a naitive E mount lens, you can bet on that. Personally, I'd wait a bit linger and see if Birger is coming out with a Nikon/Canon electronic mount. Also, Sony itself has hinted it may be doing just that.

Either way, the adapter is a piece of gear that will likely not maintain a decent resale value for long given all the facts (this is already Sony's 2nd attempt at the mount, the possibility of Sony & 3rd party mounts coming down the line soon, and better E mount glass).

That said, the A glass is good and (previous to these new cams) could be gotten at a good price.

Just in case you'd like to see some examples of images with that
lens, you can take a look here:

Summer 2011 on Vimeo

Now granted, this is with the FS100, but it is the exact same lens.

Just in case you'd like to see some examples of images with that
lens,

Which one is that lens? Several have been mentioned in this thread.

Sorry I didn't make it more clear. I was referring to the lens the OP
asked about....specifically the Sony E mount 18-200 lens that comes as
a 'kit' with several of their cameras.....in my case it was with the
NEX FS 100, so it isn't a 'apples to apples' comparison (since the camera
has a lot to do with the image quality as well) but thought it might
be a little helpful. On the FS 100 anyways, the lens seems to produce
pretty decent looking images, I would guess the same would be true with
the VG 20......

...and with the NEX 5n and the NEX 7 perhaps, do you think Gabe? Not apples to apples but the same codec and bit rate, I believe. (Pardon me if I veered off-topic slightly but it surely is an interesting unfolding)

Great video, Most enjoyable. Well done. Much more than a camera and lens choice...

John,

You are absolutely right....I forgot about the NEX 5 and NEX 7, mostly
because I'm not as much of a stills guy (although now that I have a
FS 100, I may just have to get one for my 'running around' stills
camera with the bonus that it can be my 'B' video camera). I would
guess, that they too would produce pretty decent images with the
E mount 18-200 lens. I know it gets a bad rap, because it has
'funky' focusing, and variable aperture, but I am really impressed
by the quality it can produce. And one more thing I will be
posting soon......the OIS is just amazing on this lens. I did
a test shoot today, with the OIS on, and tried a handheld shot
to simulate a 'slider' move. Now I'm sure it is not as good as
what you could get with a real slider, but that being said,
you may be surprised. I'll let you decide for yourselves
once I get it posted (either tonight or tomorrow.)

Thanks to all of you for posting...

Gabe, thanks for the video, really a nice job. I will most likely order the "kit" VG 20 with the lens and get another wide angle lens for real wide closeups. Movie type shooting is new to me, so I have a lot to learn about lighting etc. My goal is to make low budget music videos for fun and hopefully a little profit. ha

Im wondering if the Canon 5dmkII might be a better choice for music videos over the VG20. Camera audio is not an issue, since the band or artist will be lip-syncing to pre-recorded material. Any input to compare the two will be appreciated.

Thanks again,
Jeff Hinson

I don't know much about HDSLR's as I don't use them. I think the 5D
would give you quite a bit more of the 'shallow depth of field' look...
that is one reason it is so popular, it is a full frame sensor, which
is even bigger than the 'Super 35' or 'APS-C' types. There is a lot
of things I don't like about still cameras trying to be motion cameras
though.....one of them is time limits on my takes. Then there is audio,
moire, aliasing, batteries that run out quickly and countless other
things. However, lots of people get very good results with the HDSLR's,
so you have to look at what works best for you.

So the one more thing I was talking about with this lens is the OIS.
It stabilizes the shot VERY well! It's not as good as being on a
tripod or anything, but it's pretty good. Just for a lark today,
I tried doing a handheld 'slider' type move with the FS 100. Now
I don't know that the VG20 will have the OIS, but I thought I had
read that this was something that would only work with this 18-200
lens, which made me believe the OIS was a lens thing. Anyways,
it's not as good as a dolly/slider move, but it looks pretty
decent considering it was just a handheld walking shot.

Handheld 'dolly' move - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpF8m4Xoo_A)

Thanks for posting the OIS demo...looks great.
I dont know if I could hold my breath that long though...haha

Id like to have both, an interchangeable lens camcorder and a dslr that accepts the same lenses. The VG20 and a mid priced Sony dslr may be the route to go. I could sell my XHA1 and get a dslr.

I cant afford to be in a hurry. ha

@gabe

Nice video and nice music - unfortunately I can not identify it. Can you help?

And just to be on topic. A standard 28-300 mm in full frame terms is indeed a very nice thing to have as a cover-the-lot optic. Useful, but slow. I like my Panasonic 14-140, as it ensures that I do not get caught with the wrong lens for a job. It stays in my bag no matter what.

I sort of wonder if a lens of that type with a T2.8 or a T3.5 aperture would be extremely expensive. On the other hand the amount of other lenses you would need would be limited for a lot of people.

Cheers

Jeff,

Yeah, I didn't hold my breath, but I was trying to move slow, and
avoiding any 'jiggling' moves. Obviously, the better/smoother
you can move, the better it will work. I didn't really succeed,
but the OIS smoothed out my mess ups quite a bit. It can make
handheld stuff look pretty decent.

Jos,

Stock 20 is a royalty free music provider. They sell stuff by the song
which is nice when you have a specific project....you can demo the music
and then just add in the price of the music for your client (usually
about $20 a song or less.) Quite often they have sales, where they
will sell entire volumes of music (like 5 DVD's worth......over 1000
songs) for $70-$100. I bought one of those volumes, and just
started listening to music until I found something that seemed to
work. I think the track was called 'Perfect moment'.....it may
have been one of the alternates. Each track comes with like 10
versions, a full length cut (around 3-5 minutes) a 1 minute version
a :30 version, a :15 version, and a :10 version as well as 1-3
alternate full versions, where it is close to the same, but a couple
instruments are removed, or added, or there may be vocal elements
or something else.

As for lenses, I doubt you are going to see any still lenses with that
range (18-200), that are fast, say F2.8. You can find cinema lenses
like that, but you are talking over 50 grand for the lens easy. So having
a lens with that kind of range is useful, then you fill in around it
with other lenses, in my opinion. But for all it's shortcomings, it still
can produce very nice images, it's not like the lens is a 'dog' or
anything. Which I guess makes sense as it is kind of a hybrid 'still'
lens and still lenses have to worry about MUCH higher resolution than
HD video.

...and with the NEX 5n and the NEX 7 perhaps, do you think Gabe? Not apples to apples but the same codec and bit rate, I believe. (Pardon me if I veered off-topic slightly but it surely is an interesting unfolding)

Great video, Most enjoyable. Well done. Much more than a camera and lens choice...
__________________________________________________________________________________

John...........and others,
Regarding your mention of the NEX 5...
Id like to have a DSLR cam, but cant afford anything near a 5dmkii or equiv. The nex5 is in my price range. I see you have one. Will you tell me what you think of the Nex5, as to video capture, and would it match up with VG 20 video? I know I could use the e series lenses with it.
Since I have a XH-A1, soon a VG-20, do you feel the Nex 5 would be a good addition for high rez stills and video clips?

Thanks,
Jeff

Jeff,

You should take a look at Mike Kobal's blog post here:

Sony Nex 5n compared vs. Sony Nex FS100: ungraded/graded clips 1080/60i Mike Kobal (http://www.mikekobal.com/blog/?p=2187)

To me, it looks like the NEX-5N would be great for exactly what you
are looking for. Furthermore, anyone who owns a FS 100, or a VG 10,
or is planning on purchasing a VG 20, you will have the benefits
of being able to share lenses.

GABE...thanks so much.

Amazing how good the 5n performs! ...and at $600 would be a great addition for video B and still use.
I love the way he had it mounted on the shoe mount of the 100..ha

Who would have thought that so small a cam could produce that quality.

You've been a great help to me. Keep the advice coming. :?)

Jeff

Oh, no, sorry, I don’t have one. My comment about ‘great video’ was in reference to the vid posted by Gabe. But I certainly am looking very closely at that camera, along with the NEX 7 and the VG 20. I have the Sony HX100v and the Sony CX100v and the video quality continues to astound me. Footage shot at 60p works well on the time line with footage shot with my EX1. As Steve Mullen suggested quality of the footage shot with the new Sony cameras is all good so it’s down to ergonomics and functionality, and if you want DoF, as I now do, then a larger sensor seems to be required. I would pick up a NEX 5n in a flash were it not for the imminent arrival of the NEX 7 which is one step up again and includes a mic input. Yes, more money but the mic input is handy and the photographic capabilities are said to be right up there with the best DSLR’s, more or less, so that camera has my attention.

I’m not in a hurry and so I’ll wait and see how things unfold with the NEX 7 and the VG 20 but if the budget was really tight and I needed a cam today I would grab a NEX 5n, for sure. Everything we hear about the NEX 5n (other than the clicking thing which no doubt Sony will fix) is positive and video quality nothing short of remarkable. If you search at Vimeo you will find footage shot with the NEX 5n which should be helpful however a lot of it suffers from macro-blocking due, I imagine, to the very low bit rate used.

John,
Sorry I misunderstood you...but no matter..you sent me down the right path I believe. I think the nex5 will be a great poor boys dslr. I like the idea of being able to swap the e series lenses between the vg20 and nex5. Im impressed with the nex5 video Ive seen so far, and hopefully the VG20 will be as good or better.

Since I always record audio on a separate recorder, Im not worried about the audio problems on the nex5.
I want to shoot mainly music videos, short films, and docs. The nex5 clips Ive seen look great and adequate for my needs. I still have my XHA1, which has good audio for run and gun shoots.

Thanks for your input, please keep it coming.

Jeff

GABE...thanks so much.

Amazing how good the 5n performs! ...and at $600 would be a great addition for video B and still use.
I love the way he had it mounted on the shoe mount of the 100..ha

Who would have thought that so small a cam could produce that quality.

You've been a great help to me. Keep the advice coming. :?)

Jeff

I don't have a 5N myself, so I am going off what I have seen from it.
And it looks pretty good, especially when you consider the price.
That's the crazy part, it cost about 1/10th of what I paid for my
FS100. Talk about a good price/performance ratio :-)
I think your idea of a VG20 and a 5N is something that will work
great for you. And sharing lenses is always good, buy one lens
and be able to use it with either camera! I have to say, I was
a little skeptical of the whole 'E-mount' system, but it seems that
Sony is going to actually develop it, and not just abandon it.