Crocolis HD - 1080P Full HD Extreme Sports Action Camera (Waterproof) (http://www.chinavasion.com/sports-action-camcorders/crocolis-hd-1080p-full-hd-extreme-sports-action-camera-waterproof-n1/)

Techmoan - Techmoan - The Crocolis HD Extreme Cam - Longest reviewever. (http://www.techmoan.com/blog/2011/9/18/the-crocolis-hd-extreme-cam-longest-review-ever.html)

I bought one of these and it is excellent value for money.
A few things that the Techmoan review gets wrong or doesn't cover.
The charge indicator does work as expected, it takes a bit more than 2 houra if the battery is fully discharged, you just have to be patient.
Althought the audio is only useful as a sync reference the internal mic records to the left channel and the external to the right channel.
The clip on attachments are a bear to get on and off at first. They have a small amount of slop in them which can make vibration issues worse. This is easily fixed with a rubber band, or a bit of packing.
The auto exposure work as well as any of these cameras but I've found setting an Ev offset of -0.3 can help avoid blown out highlights, maybe even a higher value negative offset would help more.
The camera as far as I can see only records 1920x1080 at 29.970 fps. If you select 1080p25 then it records 1440x1080. Hardly a show stopper but the way it flags the pixel aspect ratio might mean your NLE needs some help to get it right.

Things that impress me about this camera:

It has an LCD screen and a functional menu system.
The battery can be easily exchanged, more batteries and a charger are cheaply had from eBay.
It has a standard 1/4" tapped mounting hole.
It comes with a decent range of mounting kit in the box, nothing to buy for most people.
A HDMI output.
It is very easy to use.
So cheap no one would cry if it got run over or lost and yet it neither looks or feels cheap.

I have one of these as well and I'm impressed. As a still camera it will work in very low light indeed - it simply ups the gain and slows the shutter speed. The wide-angle view is impressively sharp corner to corner and you can use the camera either way up and tilt the v'finder screen through a wide 90 degrees.

The little waterproofing front 'window' (uncoated as far as I can see) causes a bit of flare into bright lights but for a camera so cheap I forgive it. The audio is not good, but it's there if you just want screams or wind noise. Seems odd that the camera is supplied with all sorts of brackets, clamps, straps, cables, instructions - but no lens cap. No matter; the top of a small can of WD40 fits perfectly.

tom.

I too bought one, and am entirely satisfied with the value for money equation ...

One very odd thing about the audio -- the microphone is not where indicated in the manual, the mic is behind the o-ring sealed back door ... so audio is actually ok if you leave the back door wide open during shooting. Shut the door and the sound is muffled into unusability. Near as I can figure, the microphone is actually at the bottom of the mic jack ..?

Ordered it on a Tuesday direct from China, it was in my hand in Canada two days later. Watching the delivery through the supplied tracking link was an amusing lesson in how the world has changed ...

Cheers,
GB

I downloaded and viewed the clips from the review. They looked quite good.

RGB, you're the man with the initials as well as The Man! How amazing, and you're perfectly correct - with the rear door open the audio is immeasurably better than when it's shut (though the s:n ratio is still pretty dire), and I shall use it with the back door slightly ajar whenever that's possible. Thanks for the find - a good one.

So what's that tiny hole for forward of the tripod socket and (useless) little screw? The hole appears to be exactly where the chip (focal plane) is situated, so I wonder if it's for an end-of-line tweak? Odd - I don't like the thought of a waterproof camera having little holes in it.

Which brings the ask - have any of you dunked your Extreme cam yet to test the waterproof claims?

tom.

Off to Mexico in a couple of days, I'll post some underwater shots when I get back ... assuming it's as watertight as promised!

GB

I've just this minute dunked mine in the bathroom sink, chatted away to it while it was filming the plug. No ill effects at all. Will take it to the pool on Friday.

Off to Mexico in a couple of days, I'll post some underwater shots when I get back ... assuming it's as watertight as promised!

GB

Have fun and remember, Mexican water is for swimming, not drinking!

Picked mine up a week ago. Took it to the beach in Guatemala but the waves were a bit rough for swimming. However, the crocolis fared well in the pool, and at the Xocomil water park (where you must go if you ever visit Guatemala).

Max depth maybe 5 feet.

More findings about the Extreme cam. Firstly it's completely watertight down to at least 2m and the little mic works surprisingly well. Here's a few seconds in the local pool, shot in the 'full HD' mode of 1080/30p:

Sarah & Faith in the water - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EiDeoSnTEU)

This mode loses you a lot of wide-angle coverage, but looks slightly better than the 720/60p mode to my eyes. The GoPro has a faster lens (f/2.8 vs f/3.6) so handles this sort of lighting rather better, with less gain and noise. The GoPro is generally sharper too, though not when submerged.

Next - don't forget to format the SDHC card in the cam before you go out shooting. In my excitement I simply popped in a card I'd been using in the 60D Canon and went out shooting on the Extreme cam. I could replay all the movies and stills on the its tiny screen, but I couldn't find any computer that could access the files, either using a card reader or connecting the ExCam via USB.

tom.

Hey Tom. Just editing a bit of footage shot with the crocolis. While I'm pretty impressed by the quality of the cam I'm wondering how much sharper images are from the Gopro (original or 2). How noticeable is the difference? The crocolis looks a little blocky/pixellated (but maybe I'm spoiled by footage from my hacked Panasonic GH2).

Ideally I'd like to mix the footage with video from my GH2 (underwater or POV/action stuff).

It's gunna be blocky if there are high contrast areas, lot's of motion or insufficient light, it only records at average 7mbps in all modes even in ideal conditions so not much bit rate to record good motion detail. I would limit this cameras use to light motion or static shots.

You're right Ian. The top whack it's 7.83mbps (1920x1080/25p and 720/60p), dropping to a lowly 5.62mbps when in the 720/25p mode. What does the GoPro record at, Mk 1 and Mk 2?

The biggest difference is in the 'smoothness', the GoPro having a definite edge here, and it's due to the Extreme cam's blockiness when the action gets going. Under water though the Extreme cam wins, simply because it's sharp. Or have GoPro fixed this with the Mk 2?

tom.

Gopro2 has double the data rate (15 Mbits/sec) for 1080 or 720p60. It drops to 8 Mbits/sec for 720p30. Where did you guys see stats for Crocolis?

So for motion does the Gopro2 look that much better (not talking bitrate comparison but actual viewable quality) than Crocolis?

From reviews I read it sounded like image quality (sharpness/saturation/dynamic range/etc) were pretty comprable for the two cameras. And I found it impossible to judge from youtube/vimeo videos that have already been compressed ....

Thanks guys.

Dave, click on the Techmoan review in post Nr 1 for the bit rates. The GoPro does look better for motion, but 3x better? No.

Techmoan, don't mention bitrates in their text review and i didn't see it on the 25min video but admit i didn't watch it all. But 4 different bitrate reporters i tested all show max 7.5.

Dave, download the original files out of the camera listed on the Techmoan review and see the bitrates and pic quality for yourself.

The GoPro bitrates are all around 15 and reported as constant codec in all video inspectors. For high motion bit rate is very important but even GoPro's 15 is not quite enough, 24 would be excellent, that's what makes the little canon point and shoots like IXUS 110S so good, constant 24mbits per sec bitrate.

I wish Gopro would come out with a camera with bullet type shape, was the first thing i asked for when i visited ceo at GoPro HQ in Aug, 2nd request was exposure lock.

Thank you gentlemen for the info. Have a great new year (though my sister has reminded me that it's already 2012 in Oz).

And talking of low bit-rates, pause this little film anywhere you like to see the blockiness that this brings to the party. In these days of cheap flash storage,why have a 7.5 mbps rate when you could have 15?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJg7JdWtWWo

Good question Tom. If I had an idea how to email the manufacturers of the Crocolis I'd send them a note asking them exactly that.

Panansonic GH1/2 was hacked and sent data rates soaring ... and the camera has become a mainstay of indie filmmaking.

My concern is that I wanted to use the Crocolis for, among other things, some POV footage from a bus drivers helper climbing around one of the "chicken buses" down here in Guatemala. I planned to use it with interviews and other footage filmed with my GH2 and sell to a news channel I do work for. But not sure how bad the POV footage will be when broadcast HD. One good thing is that there'd be so much motion that that'd take away from the quality of the Crocolis vision ...

And talking of low bit-rates, pause this little film anywhere you like to see the blockiness that this brings to the party. In these days of cheap flash storage,why have a 7.5 mbps rate when you could have 15?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJg7JdWtWWo

I'm locked out of your link -- it says I need permission.

Though I would never put my Crocolis up against a high-end camcorder, or even a modest consumer one for that matter, I haven't encountered 'blockiness' -- I'll link to clip soon as I've shortened one down.

(and QT reports the data rate at 7.5Mb/s, a rate that seems to be fixed)

Cheers,
GB

Sorry Geoff - I see I put up that clip as 'private'. It's now public.

Looking at the clips I've got up on Youtube, I see that if I go to 'edit' under the 'video manager' mode, one of the options I have is to select 'public' or 'private' under the 'privacy' option.

The only clips I have up so far are from my Sony Bloggie, exploring the rather unique 360 angle of view -- the Sony does a decent job but is not an extreme cam by any stretch.

If you are looking at these Bloggie videos, be sure to choose an HD full screen view -- the panorama rather falls apart otherwise.

http://www.youtube.com/user/RGeoffBaker/videos

Cheers,
GB

It suitable for static shots in good light or wide shots with little motion in the foreground, that's about it.

Here is a link to a Crocolis 1080 30p shot -- it is a mixed above & below water shot, with some quick adjustment to the light & some indication of skin tone. Not a bad example of what this camera might be used for. I see far less blockiness in this shot than the other posted, but the other was maybe the hardest test of an encoder -- a random ripple pattern filling the entire frame.

Crocolis_1080_30p_test.MP4 - YouTube (http://youtu.be/YfYr-OqgHoc)

Cheers,
GB

It suitable for static shots in good light or wide shots with little motion in the foreground, that's about it.

So honestly Ian, how much better is the GP2? Are we talking head and shoulders better (for motion footage)? I'm not thinking pixel peeping here but what the layman might notice.

Thanks a million!

HD1 vs HD2 - As far as the image quality of motion video goes, the biggest difference is the speed and smoothness of the exposure and white balance and the low light performance. Period.

HD1 1080 is sharper than HD2,
HD2 has sharper 720 than HD1

Both are still great cameras.

I won't post the comparison video as this is the crocolis thread, but it is in the other thread.

Thanks Ian. Good to know how the GP1 and GP2 stack up to each other.

I was also wondering how much sharper the GP is compared to the Crocolis (especially with motion - ie. strapped to the top of someone's head).

Cheers!
Dave

GoPro has the big advantage there with 15mbps vs 7.5mbps, you need plenty of bit-rate for motion recording or the picture breaks up with artifacts etc. Even the Gopro could do with 24mbps to help with this.

Tom - UK, Thanks for the tip on WD40 lens cap. I also lost mine from the ROAM about an hour after I had it and simply stow the cam in the nice plastic box Contour sent it in.

BTW... the Crocolis is selling for as low as $170 in the US. I bought mine for about $200 from an agent on Ebay - took about 2 weeks to arrive.

Jim

Well here's proof that my Extreme cam's waterproof - at least down to 2 metres. These three minutes were snipped out of about 30. Shot mainly in 720/50p for the greatest wide-angle (172 deg in air, so very nearly a FFFE - full frame fish eye).

The cam struggles in low light, and under water you must lose another 1½ stops or so. Footage looked underexposed and the GoPro did better in the same conditions. The 7.8mbps is borderline for fast action as you'll see. It's so-so hi-def, but clicking the 720 or 1080 buttons may make it look better your end.

The Well Done Team.mpg - YouTube

tom.

Just done a quick test between the Extreme cam and the Canon 60D with the Tokina 11 - 16 mm fitted. Shooting from the same position I notice both field of views are almost identical (apart from the barrel distortion, natch).

Another 3½ mins to show the Extreme cam's waterproof. This time I shot at 1440x1080/25p (for the best performance in low light) and bumped the EV by +1 stop in the menu because of shooting into the blue LED lighting. As the pool's a bit shallow I might have been better off using the 720/25p setting to get the wider field of view, but the low 5.6 mbps bit rate at that setting puts me off somewhat.

Tom & Sarah swim.m2t - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKlPBcCKkfQ&feature=youtu.be)

tom.

I used the Extreme cam under water again this week. I wanted the best low light performance (the pool's hardly bright) and the widest field of view (the pool's hardly deep), so I set the camera to 720/25p. The resulting footage (action swimmer) is horribly staccato, but a plus point is that every frame is sharp so stills are easily lifted from the timeline. To restore fluidity to the finished film I simply imported the cam's footage into a 1280x720/50i timeline and let the computer invent the in-between frames.

...compared to the average kiddy pool video this is very artistic. The blue lighting and bubbles add somewhat of a SloMo effect where the rest of the image is in realtime - like swimming in gelatin. Cool.

Jim

The Extreme cam is much more light-sensitive in its 25p modes but action footage can look a bit jerky and staccato at this low frame rate. So with this little 5 min film I shot at 1440x1080/25p and used +1 EV for the shots looking up from the bottom. Poolside shots were done mostly using a Panasonic SD900, the 20x zoom contrasting nicely with the Extreme cam's fixed super-wide.

I pulled all the footage into a 50' Edius timeline and let Edius 'invent' the in-between frames. It's smoothed the film out nicely.

Brentwood School Pool.m2t - YouTube

tom.

Just wondered if anyone has seen this problem. I'm thinking it's a rolling shutter issue but not sure if the Croc is using a CMOS chip.

CROCOLIS HD CAM ISSUE - YouTube (http://youtu.be/vsDQfqxUIiQ)

Just wondered if anyone has seen this problem. I'm thinking it's a rolling shutter issue but not sure if the Croc is using a CMOS chip.

CROCOLIS HD CAM ISSUE - YouTube (http://youtu.be/vsDQfqxUIiQ)

High freq engine vibrations transmitted through the mount generally cause this especially if chassis mounted. Isolation is the only fix or use a CCD based camera.Vibration wise, body mount is the best place for a POV cam.

You nailed it...Thanks!