I'd guess that if the capabilities are there in the 5N, they could be "hacked into" the VG20... those should share imaging blocks and the majority of circuitry, at least that's what I'd suspect (remember, haven't opened up these particular cameras, just familiarity with how Sony does things... and had a few open on the bench along the way!

That service manual looks like it's for the earlier 5's, and IIRC there are some things that ONLY work with the 5N (that fancy VF for one), so you'd need the latest version of the SM, just to be sure.

And yep - the "simple" hack is to take the existing Sony mic, crack it open and interface another different mic to it... but as long as one were popping it open ANYWAY... probably would be possible to figure out the interface, but you'd still need a sacrificial mount, since that's proprietary...

Yes, in the case of the VG20, the simple thing would be for Sony to supply updated firmware - they DO release feature updates, as they did to add a lot of the "new" features to the A33/A55. It would be a good selling point to update cameras to better specs whenever it was possible, and if it's just a user update-able firmware "patch" the cost would be nominal.

I think it may be too simple to assume it's a passive interface. If they have a chip that uses a serial-protocal that responds to commands from the camera, and sends data to the camera -- you'll need a chip.

So Dave's right, the simplest solution is buy the mic, pop it open, and pull-out the mic. Now you can drill a hole in the face and run a cable to XLRs or mount a jack. There are iPhone to XLR cables available.

PS: there is not other hot-shoe on the 5n. And, you can't use the VF and a mic. Seems simpler to get a 7.

As soon as one can actually GET a NEX7, I expect it will fly off the shelves... for that very reason... it seems to check all the boxes pretty well. The 5N is not bad, but has its limitations.

Until one cracks open one of the mics, no way to know if it's more "tech" than simple...

I tried to get the Service manual for the SONY NEX Series but no chance to get it. Did anyone know how to open the NEX microphone want to hack it for external mics...

I know this thread has been dead for awhile, but I thought I'd share my experience. I currently have both the Nex7 and the VG20.

I'm finding the Nex7 to have an overall superior picture. I didn't think the newer sensor would help the HD video in the 7, but something apparently something does. Perhaps it's just the processing since you only need 2 megapixels for HD.

The bottom line is that although the VG20 produces a beautiful picture, there is a bit more detail and what I am finding, better color in the Nex7.

BTW, what's up with the disparity in Sony's advertising and the reality of the cam. Unlike my Nex7, there are no adjustments for color, contrast or brightness. Additionally, there are no picture profiles. If any of these are there, then I must have missed them...and trust me, I looked for them.

Some would call that false advertising.

Ken,
I sold both my NEX5N..and XH-A1...went with the Canon XA10 and the Panny Lumix GH2.

My NEX 5N...took great video and stills..Im sure the NEX 7 is even better. I chose the GH2 because of the unlimited time limit for video. Does not overheat and you can record video without restarting. I need a camcorder for my events and the XA10 is perfect...matches with the GH2 identically.

Good luck,
Jeff

Thanks Jeff. Ironically, I too have both the GH2 and XA10. My XA10 has been my go to camcorder since it came out. I dont use the GH2 that much since the only setting that wows me is the 1080 24p mode. I don't shoot in 24p, so that forces me to use either 1080i or 720p which doesn't knock my socks off. The 24p on the GH2 though is stunning, I'm just not a fan of the motion of 24p.

I'm finding the Nex7 produces a sharper, deeper picture with better exposure latitude and color than my XA10. I never expected that. The bigger chip just seems to produce a picture with more 'wow'. Yes, there are a few artifacts from time to time (roofs, some brickwork etc), but the overall image is just gorgeous. That OLED viewfinder on the 7 is just amazing. You feel as if you have more involvement in the scene you're shooting.

I'm not using the Nex7 for event work and I'll never shoot clips in excess of a couple of minutes, so the overheating issue should be no problem. I'm sure I couldn't trust it for that kind of work.

So I will end up selling my GH2 and possibly my XA10. I'm still evaluating the VG20, but I really wish it had the adjustability of the Nex7. If it had the features that Sony says it has, I'd be fine.

Yeah, the NEX-7 and VG20 are two halves of an almost perfect camera.

Sony should stop crippling the VG series with lack of manual controls - and should also stop crippling the NEX still cameras with time limits on video.

I've shot stills and video with the VG20 and like it a lot, but I couldn't get past its limitations - especially at the $1500 price point. I might have stretched the budget and bought the VG20 instead of a TM900, though, if it had manual control of color, contrast and brightness.

And I would have been far more likely to trade in my GH2 for the NEX-7 except for the time limit on video.

Maybe they'll get it right at some point. I really like Sony's superior low light performance and dynamic range.

Jeff - it sounds like you have the perfect setup with the XA10 and GH2 - I really like the XA10 and its pro mic inputs, but $2000 was a little too much for me.

Cheers,

Bill

Thanks Jeff. Ironically, I too have both the GH2 and XA10. My XA10 has been my go to camcorder since it came out. I dont use the GH2 that much since the only setting that wows me is the 1080 24p mode. I don't shoot in 24p, so that forces me to use either 1080i or 720p which doesn't knock my socks off. The 24p on the GH2 though is stunning, I'm just not a fan of the motion of 24p...

Ken do you have the v1.1 firmware update (http://panasonic.jp/support/global/cs/dsc/download/fts/dl/gh2.html)? The new HBR mode is a smooth 30p. Should intercut very well your XA10's 1080/30p.

Cheers,

Bill
Hybrid Camera Revolution (http://hybridcamerarevolution.blogspot.com)

BILL AND KEN...

I wasted a lot of money bouncing around from Sony to Canon to Panasonic...

Like you said...each has its good points and limitations....maybe all the companies are working together. haha

I love the XA10 for video...and the GH2 video (hbr 30p) matches up perfectly together. and easy to edit etc.

I like photography too, and the NEX 5N I had/sold, beat the GH2 on stills IMO.

I need to get a better "still" cam. I torn between the NEX7 and the Canon 5Dmkii. I think the NEX 7 is as good or better than the 5D...........but the 5D is definitely the most popular still cam out.

What do you guys think....price excluded, the NEX 7 or 5D ??

jeff

Ken do you have the v1.1 firmware update (http://panasonic.jp/support/global/cs/dsc/download/fts/dl/gh2.html)? The new HBR mode is a smooth 30p. Should intercut very well your XA10's 1080/30p.

Cheers,

Bill
Hybrid Camera Revolution (http://hybridcamerarevolution.blogspot.com)

Yeah Bill, I did do the firmware update. But I still can't get motion issues even with 30p. Let's face it, a 60p frame rate gives smoother motion than 30p and certainly 24p. But yes, if the GH2 had 60p with the PQ of its 24p/30p frame rate, I wouldn't be selling the GH2.

I really think the Nex7 is pretty close to the GH2 in detail, but I still give the edge to the GH2. I do like the Sony color better and that together with 60p, makes it a real winner in my book. The same goes for the VG20 which I'm still testing.

Jeff, I haven't really played with the 5D, but from reviews I've read it seems the 7 gets the nod in most aspects.

@Jeff -

I think the first Q I'd ask is what if any "system" you have a committment to... sounds a bit like you've bounced around, and with all the "accessories", that can get expensive!

I'll admit some frustrations with Sony cameras, but since for the most part I've stuck with them, I "get" how they are designed to be used - and in general, they are designed to get the best results possible with minimal user intervention... but that's not to say they don't provide lots of possible "user" input, you just have to learn to use what they provide the best you can (I understand the frustrations voiced with the VG20 "missing" things it was advertised to have, no good excuse for that).

I suspect because the emphasis is on "ease" of user experience, the menus are simplified, with the idea you can adjust in post if you really feel the need.- increasingly, I don't "feel" that need, as the cameras seem to produce pretty good results "out of the box", with minor tweaking.


As tempting as the NEX7 was (and still is, darn it!), I ended up getting the A65 - already had lenses (old MInolta A mount), and a couple batteries from earlier Alpha cams, and the price was right for a slightly used one. The A65 uses the same 24Mpixel sensor as the NEX7, the results so far for both stills and video knock my socks off - and it's a very "fun" camera to shoot with. IF you're considering the 5D2, and you don't have a system committment, AND you liked the 5n, I think it'd be worth looking at the full size Alpha cams - if not the A65, the A57 just released, and Sony tweaked the 16Mpixel sensor (same one as the 5n), seem to have squeezed out even sharper still results!

Because the Alphas are larger bodies than the NEX cams, so far heat issues seem to be minimal (knock on wood), there's a boatload of A mount lenses out there for cheap, and I added a shotgun (with a shoe adapter for the Sony flash shoe), which helps reduce any autofocus noise.

I've had the VG20 now since November, and its still bugging me about the misinformation that led me to buy the camera. I think it would be an ideal camera with the saturation, sharpness and contrast adjustments opened up, as was promised in the advertising.

To be fair, however, Sony seems to have dialed the camera lower in saturation, contrast and sharpness, than you might expect, and I have been able to tweek a lot of shots in post to make them look like what I want. Its still tougher in high contrast shooting situations than it should be, but they seem to have left room in the saturation and sharpness hard settings on the camera to play with.

I have the 5D2 and have just added the moire filter, and its seems to be an improved carmera as a result. but in run and gun and event shooting situations, the VG20 is a true video camera making it much easier to operate for those purposes. It also has more detail than the 5D2 for nature and scenic shooting.

What do you guys think....price excluded, the NEX 7 or 5D ??

Jeff - My vote would be for the NEX for stills, price excluded. Here's what a professional photographer thought after a week in Cuba with both cameras: Sony NEX-7 – A Week in Havana | Peter Sills Photography (http://petersills.wordpress.com/2011/12/08/sony-nex-7-a-week-in-havana/)

Another pro photographer whom I respect, David at soundimageplus, liked the NEX-7 so much he bought two of them: The SOUNDIMAGEPLUS blog -: My other cameras a Sony (http://soundimageplus.blogspot.com/2012/03/my-other-cameras-sony.html)

Cheers,

Bill

For what it's worth, I shot a Vietnam Veterans ceremony with the VG20 on Memorial Day for about 3 1/2 hours.

It was blazing hot (we set a new record here in Michigan, 95 in the shade), and the camera was directly in the sun for the entire event. And the Memorial was black - just about the worst possible conditions for this part of the world - and the camera performed flawlessly. After coming from Canon DSLRs, I was very worried about over heating...

But nope - ran like a charm. Looked at the footage, and it turned out fine. Simply put, considering that the camera had to have been at least 105 degrees, I'm shocked (in a good way).

Am I disappointed that Sony removed some very basic features? Yup. But in terms of performance and form factor, I couldn't be much happier. It's quite a little video camera.

I post the video as soon as it's done.

I was debating between the VG20 and the Nex5n/7 after wanting something different than my 3.5 year old 5d2. I was most frustrated by some of the workarounds/hassles while shooting video - specifically overheating and audio. I bought a Nex7 to tinker with and liked it so much for stills and video that I decided to move to the Nex system and invest in E/A mount glass. Its been a PITA with the overheating - it wasn't bad at first, but it seems to have gotten worse over the last month. I live in Florida and my camera is constantly shutting down. I can't get more than a minute or two in 1080/60p before it craps out. Grrr.... Then you have a mic jack, but no control of audio levels so you have to monkey with dual audio. I looked at the VG20, but the lack of XLR's kind of turned me off. Ultimately I unloaded my 5d2 along with all my EF glass and my ZE's and bought a FS100 - and I couldn't be happier with the decision.

First you get real audio, 2 nice XLR inputs with full manual adjustments and a headphone jack. No more dual audio, no more forgetting to hit record or stop recording on two separate devices, no more splitters to get synced audio into the camera and no more time wasted syncing audio in post. I'm a total run-and-gun shooter and I stop recording after every shot. So I get dozens and sometimes hundreds of individual files from every shoot. I came from the PD170 then a Z1u, I like on board audio. I'm never running dual audio again.

Then you get 6 picture profiles with the ability to fine tune every nuance to your liking - I've been using the Frank Glencarin (sp?) and the Abel Cine profiles - they're fantastic. There's the noise issue - the Nex7 at 1600 is noisier than the FS100 at 6400, and the Nex7 video is terrible in low light - lots of noise and you really lose detail. With the FS100 there are no recording time limits and no overheating issues - just hit record and go about your business. I really like the Nex7 for stills, but I'm selling mine to get a 5n for stills and a "B" cam to mate with the FS, the 7 is overkill for my needs. I use the Nex on a modded steadicam smoothie, so I need a small/light camera to do steadicam shots.

I'm now using the SAL16-50/2.8 with the LAEA1 adapter and a Singh-Ray vari ND filter and its damn near the perfect FS100 combo IMHO - its on my camera about 75% of the time. I do wish the lens had IS, but its so much faster/sharper than the 18-55 or the 18-200, its parfocal so recomposing with the zoom is cake - you don't lose focus. I also have the 18-55, the 50/1.8, 24/1.8 and some MF glass. The 16-50 is so good I'm selling the 24/1.8, I really don't miss the extra stop and the 16-50 looks as sharp and contrasty to my eyes as the Zeiss (a bit of a disappointment for a $1000 lens with the big Z on the side) in both stills and video. I'm keeping the kit lens and the 50 for the OSS and because they're obviously lighter and more compact and looking into more Alpha G lenses or some adapted ZF's.

Chris -

I think most of us would rather have the FS100 over the VG20, 5n/7, etc. - but there's a huge price difference between those choices. The FS100 is still holding it's value, currently selling for $5,000 (while the AF100 has dropped to $3,495). The VG20 is going for $1,600.

That's a relatively huge difference in pricing. At this point, I don't think any 8 bit camera is worth that kind of dough, excepting perhaps the FS700 for it's slo-mo capacity (although not the $7K it's going for).

Far as XLR inputs go, I'd like them, but in reality I rarely want audio cables hanging off the camera (and the mic on the VG20 is quite good).

$3,500 seems to be a price closer to reality.

Ultimately I unloaded my 5d2 along with all my EF glass and my ZE's and bought a FS100 - and I couldn't be happier with the decision.

Great mini-review Chris. I'm thinking about the FS 100 for my news/doc work so great to hear how someone who came from PD170/Z1 is so enamoured with it.

Too bad there weren't more "native" lenses to choose from. Might send you a message down the line when it's closer to buy-in time.

John - I agree with most of what you're saying, but even though the FS100 is only 8-bit, its 8 damn good bits. I bought the body only - no lens - for about 80% of what it sells for new. I scored a great deal. If you factor in audio/mic setups on something like a Nex7 and various rig add-ons most use, the price gap is narrowed a bit. Factor in time spent monkey-ing with the workarounds, both in the field and while editing, and the gap narrows a little more. That's just where I was when I pulled the trigger on the FS. I'm parting with a lot of the gear I was using to shoot video with DSLR's and a couple other cameras, so I'm going to recoup the cost of the FS. The workflow for me is now so much more streamlined. I shot a commercial a couple weeks ago with little time or planning for a local non-profit and the FS100 was a blessing. The form factor and controls are a big plus as well, for instance I can turn peaking or zebras on/off with the push of a dedicated button instead of navigating menus. I'm going to stick with Nex for at least the next couple years so it was worthwhile to invest in a dedicated video camera.

Dave - Sony is obviously slow to bring many fast lenses to Nex, the 50/1.8 is a bargain and the 24/1.8 is a disappointment, the 18-55 & 18-200 are ok and I haven't tried any others, that's why I went body and just bought the SAL 16-50/2.8 with the Sony adapter, its a brilliant lens that IMHO outperforms Canon's L zooms in the same focal range. The only hindrance to a perfect run-and-gun camera (some will say ND's, but I love the Singh-Ray) is the placement of the LCD. After 15 or so years of LCD's swinging out from the side of the camera, its on top. That's great when its on the sticks or something like a slider, but a little awkward at first when handholding. You have to cradle it with both hands and keep it stuck in your gut or chest - if its bright out the bazooka viewfinder makes it slightly more awkward. There's a record button where your right hand rests, next to the lens on the lower/front part of the body, so at least Sony engineers got that one right. It makes all the difference. Feel free to hit me up if you decide to go the FS100 route. I only have a few weeks with the camera right now, but I'm really happy with its performance.

Didn't mean to hijack this thread, back to normal programming....

Chris - please don't apologize for hijacking the thread, this is a great post and definitely contributes to the discussion. Thank you for sharing your first-hand view of the FS. I'm sure there are many of us deciding whether to sell all of our DSLR/DSLT/DSLMs and their workarounds and get a used AF or FS, especially since there's likely to be downward pressure on prices with the BMC (http://www.adorama.com/VDBMCC.html?kbid=66297) and FS700 coming out. I could just about afford this used FS (http://www.adorama.com/US%20%20%20%20496995.html?kbid=66297) if I sold everything!

Bill

Here's the aforementioned Memorial Day video shot on a record hot (for Michigan any way) day:
2012 Memorial Day Ypsilanti Township on Vimeo

I about died, but the camera did fine...

I am curious about the similarities in video picture of the NEX7 and VG10/20 series of cameras.......are they very similar?

I'm actually about to walk out the door to buy a NEX7 and stopped on in here to get a mental "picture" of the video capabilities of the NEX7 as I've read glowing reviews of it...I'm loving it's small form factor, quality build and mic input.

Here's a couple things I shot with the NEX 7 before returning it to B&H. I returned it because the random overheating made it almost unusable for video.

Subiesport TV - West Coast Subaru Show 14 - YouTube

Summer Afternoon on Vimeo

May give you a flavor for the video. Both were with the Konica 40mm and the car one also uses a Canon FD135.

After an exhaustive online search for information on this NEX7 overheating issue, I've found out a few things.

It appears 90% of the thermal warnings/shutdowns are occurring due to a premature triggering of the program parameters that invoke this warning......in most cases the camera is not actually too hot or in thermal danger.....some information has been posted which seem to indicate the warning is triggered by SD card use and the use of high iso's which cause a slight higher temp reading inside the circuit bands that route to the internal SD card slot.....many people have posted this warning goes away completely if a Sony 32GB Memory Stick PRO-HG Duo HX (or 16GB) is used as the MS slots bands route on the opposing side.....another quick remedy is to simply swap the battery for another battery causing an internal system reset of the warning.
There are quite a few threads with success stories utilizing the simple battery swap (use a different battery- not the same in and out).......but the most successful threads are pointing to the use of Sony 32GB Memory Stick PRO-HG Duo HX cards.

I have bought an NEX7 today and will be using the Sony 32GB Memory Stick PRO-HG Duo HX and see if the warning appears.....I will post soon to inform you guys.
Cheers~

What have you found out about Nex-7 overheating in regards to using a Sony card?

I got my answer for Steve via Email. Thanks Steve.