So, I've been digging and struggling for about a week now. I can't seem to come up with functional Compresso settings for exporting my project. I've got a 2hr 20min feature in FCP that I need to encode and transfer to DVD in DVD Studio Pro. Can anyone tell me what my MPEG-2 compression settings should be? Why am I getting bit rate errors in DVDSP? Basically, I'm looking for a ball park group of settings for feature-length, high quality film festival submissions. I've been teaching myself on the fly since day one in FCP, and I think my brain's just done for.

Thanks in advance,

Chris

Try this Droplet (http://www.daveperry.net/compressor_drops) and see how it works for you.

Chris,
You have to answer two questions to get an effective answer. Are you compressing for single or dual layer DVD? Do you have stereo or 5.1 channel audio?

If you have stereo sound compressed to AC-3 at a reasonable bitrate (e.g. 192 kbps, which is what I use) and you are using a dual layer DVD then you should be able to encode your video in 2-pass VBR mode with an average rate of 6.5 or 7 mbps and a max of 7.5 or 8. This will be a high quality encode. If you have multichannel audio or you are using uncompressed PCM audio then your video data rate will probably need to be lower. If you are using a single layer disc then you will have to use much lower data rates; I don't think Compressor is well-suited to this. You can look at this site: http://www.customflix.com/Special/AuthoringNightmares/03/BitBudget.jsp to give you a ballpark range, but it won't do you any good if you're using 5.1 channel audio or a higher data rate for AC-3.

Or maybe Dave's droplet already did the trick for you. If not, post which type of disc you're using and what's on your soundtrack and you can get better answers.

It's 6:17am and I've been sitting and polishing the edits for what seems like three months. I happened across your responses while trying my best to pass out for a few hours, and I just wanted to say thanks a ton. I'll be trying both of your suggestions for sure, and I can't tell you how much I appreciate you weighing in so quickly.

For the record, I'm only running a stereo soundtrack. Also, my knowledge of DVD technolody is fledgling at best. The discs are around 4.7gb capacity if memory serves, so I'm guessing they're single-layer? Sounds like it would benefit me greatly to move to dual-layer, but does that affect my compatibility with players? Not to sidetrack, but, well, it's hard not to sidetrack.

If you have it in your heart to update your responses based on that info, I'd owe you all big.

BTW, if it affects anything: Dual 2.5ghz G5, 4.5GB RAM, source video on FW800 LaCie Bigger Disk Extreme 1TB. FCP 4.5HD suite (Compressor 1.2.1). QT7pro, overall lack of sleep/excess of nicotine.

Thanks again,

Chris.

Hello Chris,

If a disc is 4.7 gigabyte, it's single layer. Dual layer is 8.5 gigabyte, if I'm not mistaken.
I don't think it's a problem running a dual layer disc in a dvd player, the 'problem' is the price of an empty dual layer dvd. I heard prices here in Belgium of 15 euros, so it's kind of expensive.
Best regards,

Chris,
You're using single layer, so Dave's droplet should be great for you. If you have the time, try short samples with each droplet and see if the chroma noise reduction in the one improves your quality at all. There's a good chance it will. Make sure you compress the audio with the AC-3 codec. In your case, that means using A.Pack. This article should help if you're not familiar with the application: http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/a_pack_warmouth.html.

Dual-layer discs are expensive compared to single layer, but you could greatly increase your data rate if you used dual layer, which in my experience is usually a good idea when using Compressor or any lower-end MPEG-2 encoder. It shouldn't affect compatibility at all.

Also, you don't owe us anything except an update on how well the encode worked for you.

Zach,

You infer that compressor is a low end product. So far I'm finding it tricky to use for HDV 1080i to DVD. What would be a high end compressor?

Thanks

Lewis

___________________________
Fear is Faith it Won't Work Out

Lewis,
First, full disclosure: I have no experience with editing or transcoding any kind of HD/HDV. But I can say that Compressor is not anywhere near the high end of MPEG-2 encoders. BitVice and the MainConcept encoder will supposedly do better on the Mac, but I didn't have enough success with either of their demos to pay for them, and neither of them is truly high end. CinemaCraft is supposed to be the best software-based encoder, but it only runs on windows. It also costs quite a bit more than, say, the entire Final Cut Studio.

The other high-end encoders are, I think, hardware based. This thread will give you an idea: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=30601&highlight=sonic+toshiba.

This article might help too, even though it's not current: http://videosystems.com/mag/video_mpeg_encoder_shootout/. It claims that some people confuse Compressor's output with a $25,000 Sonic encoder.

I have had only good experiences using Compressor, though side-by-sides would definitely favour other software solutions.

Remember, 4.7 is what the DVD lists, but it is actually 4.27 gigs. You should definitely do your audio track as AC3 files either using compressor or A-Pack, which was included with FCP.

Good luck.

Kevin

My two pence here. I'm facing a similar problem with about three hours of event (Oxford Japan Festival) recording. I'm using a 4.7GB (actual 4.3GB) single layer DVD (my PB G4 1.5MHz with UJ-825 does not recognize 8.5 GB DVD+R DL).

What do I do? I'm not going to compromize on quality. Yes, the audio should be encoded with A-Pack (it's not advisable to leave it uncompressed). The video should be encoded to the level acceptable to the customer plus a little bit higher.

I will have to make more than one DVD. I don't see anything wrong with it. Another option would be to encode from FCP (I use QT), so that I have my .m2v and audio files and then to do the DVD authoring with a double-layer burner (perhaps even external).

All the best!

Hmm, looks like you answered your own question. :-) If you don't want to compromise the quality, you will have to go to multiple DVD's. The more compression = compromising the quality. Sometimes you won't notice the compromise, but it definitely is. To keep it very high quality, you may even have to have 3 DVD's, though you could get a decent look by doing 1.5 hr per DVD.

Good luck.

Kevin



My two pence here. I'm facing a similar problem with about three hours of event (Oxford Japan Festival) recording. I'm using a 4.7GB (actual 4.3GB) single layer DVD (my PB G4 1.5MHz with UJ-825 does not recognize 8.5 GB DVD+R DL).

What do I do? I'm not going to compromize on quality. Yes, the audio should be encoded with A-Pack (it's not advisable to leave it uncompressed). The video should be encoded to the level acceptable to the customer plus a little bit higher.

I will have to make more than one DVD. I don't see anything wrong with it. Another option would be to encode from FCP (I use QT), so that I have my .m2v and audio files and then to do the DVD authoring with a double-layer burner (perhaps even external).

All the best!

This may sound very naive to most of you who seem to have way more experience than I, but.....

Is it absolutely necessary to dump it to DVD? You say it's for a Film Festival.... can they only accept DVD? What about forgetting that and buying a MiniMac, drop the uncompressed (and presumably better quality? Anyone?) finished product onto that, and plug that into the big screen instead of the DVD player? Is it imporatnt that you have DVD menus, chapters etc? Or do you just want to show a film?

If it's a success and you want to go further, there must be studios around that will take the raw product and author it onto the right media at the best quality for distribution.

Then you can concentrate on film making and leave the other stuff to the techies!

Standing by to be put right.... !!

Uncompressed is certainly the best quality, but I don't think anyone is going to mail a Mac Mini to Sundance, not to mention the other 50 festivals you'll be applying for at any given moment. They mostly require DVD submission, I believe. For digital projection, that's another matter entirely, and media requirements will vary from one festival to the next. But submissions for consideration have to be sent via DVD.

Thanks Jaime.

It's a pity that mini DV tapes can't hold more than an hour, isn't it?

(Having said that, which is better.... 1.5hrs of LP miniDV tape or 1hr of DVD?)

Could've been the new VHS.

Hello, all. I'm also in the process of encoding a feature-length film, but it's for a Dual Layer DVD. The problem is that I can't get a high-quality encoding larger than 5.1GB using Compressor, no matter what bitrate and settings I use.

Here are my system specs:

Dual 2GHz G5 (Rev A), 1.5GB RAM
LaCie D2 DVD+-RW Double Layer 2.4x w/Lightscribe External burner
FCP 4.5 HD
Compressor 1.2.1
DVD Studio Pro 3
OS X 10.3.9

Here are the video specs:

1hr, 42min MiniDV feature film
Shot w/ DVX100 @ 24pA
16x9 aspect ratio
Edited on 23.98 timeline in FCP
Audio encoded as Dolby stereo AC3

I'm trying to get the highest quality footage on the dual-layer DVD that I can. So far, I've tried the presets for 120min High Quality Encode Widescreen, and the 60min High Quality Encode Widescreen, modified to 8.3 average bitrate and 8.7 max bitrate, best motion estimation, 24p, 16x9, and the maximum file size I've gotten is only 5.1 GB.

A dual-layer DVD holds around 8GB. Why won't Compressor make an encode that't at least 7.5GB? It's less than 1 hour 45 minutes of DV footage; I should be able to get a very good quality encode for Dual-Layer, but I haven't been able to make one larger than 5.1GB. Any help or settings suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Jaime,
File size is not necessarily a good indication of image quality. In fact, if you use the same bitrate settings with CBR and 2-pass VBR, the 2-pass VBR should produce a smaller file at the same image quality. If you use 2-pass VBR, an average bitrate of 6 or so and a max of 7.8, you're not going to get any better quality out of Compressor regardless of file size. It would probably take higher-res source than DV to improve it. Watch out for ultra-high bitrates too. You can cause problems with those, as there is a max total bitrate for DVD.

Also, are you encoding a 24p DVD? If so, your file size will be considerably smaller than a normal NTSC encode. Just worry about how it looks. Just because you have all that space on the DVD doesn't mean you have to use it for your feature.

Hi Jaime,

As I was never able to figure out how to use compressor, I can only speak for QT settings, which I'm using (export->using QuickTime conversion). I found on the web a very useful document here:

http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/fcp_to_studio_pro.html

Great thanks to Ken for the document. You might like to try and see if that works differently. Although compressor is using the QT engine, I think.

Presently, I'm working on the long footage but mine consists of parts not longer than 1 hour each (which I still yet to do). I do not have an explanation of why that is hapenning to you. One thing I can think of at the moment is that you may already be getting the maximum quality. Congratulations! Further, I read that normal 4.7GB DVD would hold around 120 min of video, which is about the limit for those DVDs.

By the way, we are talking about normal MPEG-2 encoding here. I know nothing about latest encoding process from HDV.

Cheers,

Also, are you encoding a 24p DVD? If so, your file size will be considerably smaller than a normal NTSC encode. Just worry about how it looks. Just because you have all that space on the DVD doesn't mean you have to use it for your feature.


Zach - Yes, it's going to be a 24p DVD. But I still don't understand. What's the point of buying a Dual-Layer DVD burner if I'm only going to use 1 more GB of space than a regular DVD-R offers? Should I try to return it? Plus, I've read reports on Apple's discussion boards about people being able to get 7.5GB m2v files from compressor, and also of people getting "spectacular" results with other encoding programs (Encore, BitVice...) but I can't get a measly 1hr 42minute video to look good on a dual-layer DVD?!

Something's not right. At the moment, the footage is being exported directly from FCP 4.5 to Compressor at maximum setting for everything. 9.0 average bitrate and 9.0 maximum, 2-pass VBR, best motion estimation, 23.976fps, 16:9 aspect ratio, no filters, GOP set to defaults (12, I think) just to see what happens. If anything, it should look the best it can, right? Even if it doesn't fit on a DVD, or even a Dual-Layer DVD, the m2v file that is being created with the above settings SHOULD be the best quality possible, because every setting is at its highest limit. Or am I missing something here? 9 average bitrate + 9 max bitrate = 9 mbps for every frame. Even if it won't play back well on DVDs, or cause them to crash, this SHOULD BE the highest quality m2v file possible with Compressor 1.2.1. It should finish encoding in the next few hours, and I'll post the results here.

This is getting very annoying. I don't expect it to look as good as the playback from FCP on an NTSC monitor, but it better damn well look at least as good as the test I did with iDVD!!!!! (The only reason I'm not using iDVD is because I need to put subtitles on the thing, and it's for dual-layer dvd, but the quality I got with it was REALLY good.)

Valery - I'll try exporting with the method you describe as well, and post the results here.

Jamie,

Zach is correct about file size as an indicator of quality. A sa point of interest, 2 pass VBR will give you a smaller file size that 1 pass and VBR gives smaller file sizes than CBR. CBR sets the bit rate the same for every frame, wasting space for frames that don't benefit from less compression.

I've found that there is much more going in in encoding mpeg2 than simply clicking the right settings in the software, much more than I understand and have the time to learn. I'v spent a fair amount of time comparing Compressor and BitVice aslo. My results favor BitVice even though it's slower. I'm using BitVice for G3 macs which doesn't take advantage of G4, G5 or duals but still uses the same encoding algorithms as the current release, 1.6.

Another thing to consider is that the hollywood feature movies on DL DVDs usually include many bonus features that take up as much space as the feature movie, so I'm not thinking that your file size is that small. As a matter of fact, I ripped a DVD to my hard drive last week that was from a dual layer disc and all the files including menus, main feature, and bonus features totaled 5.1 gigs.

One more thing to consider. If you like the iDVD encode and still have the project file, control click or right click if you have the mouse for it and choose Show Package contents. Go to the resources folder and you can get the mpeg2 and aiff files it created. The aiff files will need to be converted to AC3 to ensure better compatibility with set top players, but this might be something to help you out until you can get an encode from Compressor that you are happy with.

I'm not sure it's possible to get the same bitrate on a frame-by-frame basis with Compressor. NTSC has to have GOPs of 4-18 frames, which means you'll definitely have a minimum of 3 P and/or B frames per GOP, and those have to be smaller than I frames. I-frame only MPEG-2 is for authoring, not delivery (or at least not delivery in NTSC).

But I don't think it matters anyway. If your encode with Compressor looks worse than iDVD, something must be seriously wrong. I think you should export a Quicktime reference of 2 or 3 minutes of footage from your project and do a batch of encodes at different bitrates to compare. That should be much easier than constantly encoding the whole file. I doubt it will be 100% faithful to the encode you'll get with the whole file, but it should be close enough for comparison. I think iDVD uses CBR at a bitrate of 6 or 6.5 Mbps, so if your iDVD encode looked good then try that in Compressor.