Sunday, I shot the VG20 for first time in a productions setting. I havenb't yet started any extensive editing, but I can say a few things about the camera:

1. Monitoring: With most of my mini hdmi cords trashed from shooting the 5D and 2ti, I contected the component cord to my 7 inch Marshall monitor. The color was way off, and I think it has to do with a setting on the camera or the monitor which should change or fix that color problem. Since the HDMI cord problem just popped up, as I started to shoot, I didn't take the time to track down what had to be done, I just switched to composite.

2. Image: Though the missing capabilities of adjusting saturation, contrast and sharpness make it feel like you are trying to drive a car while the steering wheel is locked, I was able to get some pretty nice images. A lot of what I was shooting was for green screen, and I generally try to shoot a bit lower contrast with green screen, so it will be interesting to see how the keying comes out. So far it has been a bit of a fight in Vegas.

3. Sound, Glorious in Camera sound. Though I needed more work on setting the camera up better, it sure is nice to have in camera sound. I probably had in put at camera set to high, as I was getting a little hiss, so I will have to play with settings more. But not having to sych everything sure is good.

4. Focusing: Nice to have the focus aid to work with the camera. I did use a Nikon adapter and therefore manual focus for most of the shoot, and manage to screw that up a couple of tiems. But it should all work good together.

I will post some grabs as I get rolling in the edit.

"Though the missing capabilities of adjusting saturation, contrast and sharpness make it feel like you are trying to drive a car while the steering wheel is locked, I was able to get some pretty nice images."

Boy, that about sums it up perfectly, no? Too bad Sony is unlikely to "unlock the wheel," 'cause I think this camera would appeal to many buyers. As it is, I'm guessing most will simply wait for Canon to come out with a sub $5K camera/next gen DSLR.

Look forward to the finished product Chris.

Enlighten me please....

All the "fuss" about not being able to adjust the VG20, is this really a big deal?

Cant you do "all" you want in post? Would you really want to adjust "each" clip of the production differently "while" filming?....or wait until all were on the time-lime to adjust the overall look of the production.

So would not focus,exposure, white balance be all you would need for filming?

Jeff

I agree with this, Jeff. I set the contrast, saturation and sharpness on my GH2 once, when I set it up a year ago, and haven't touched it since. If I don't like the contrast or color in a shot, I change it in post. Manual control of audio gain (with a headphone jack), WB, ISO, shutter speed and aperture are my bottom line list of must-haves.

I'm renting the VG20 from borrowlenses.com this weekend to make 100% sure it suits my shooting style before making a buying decision, but I won't dismiss the camera out of hand for its lack of profiles and color control.

Bill
Hybrid Camera Revolution (http://hybridcamerarevolution.blogspot.com)

I think that's a smart thing to do Bill. I can't do that without paying shipping,tax,deposit etc....

Please let us know if the VG20 fits your needs.

Thanks,
Jeff

exposure, focus and white balance is all I'm concerned about during the shoot as long as in camera s harpening is not offensive. I prefer wysiwyg to flat that has to be graded for every shot, but that's just me, And I'd never trust a camera screen to tweak kelvin by a couple of degrees.

I think the main issue is that the camera is advertised with features it doesn't have in video mode, while being marketed as a video camera, which leaves everyone uneasy. I'm still interested but wouldn't buy without having the opportunity to test first. Either by taking a memory card into the store, or Ideally renting for a weekend. I think my local dealer will apply the rental price of the demo towards a purchase, so that is cool.

Also we still need to find out if it can be made to match the 5n, which would be Ideal. There is no reason why they shouldn't as they are the same chip and processor, but if they use different firmware they might not be even close.

My last few films have rolled 2 cameras most of the time, usually using the method of medium and close on the same actor as is often done on big shoots. This makes things go faster, which is a big benefit with amateur actors, and also helps with matching performance. On the same angle I only need one sound recording so the 5n would be a perfect cheap b roll cam.

I can't afford one 'Pro' camera, let alone 2, which is why the VG-20/5n combo had me so excited in the lead up, and why I'm feeling confused and let down now. They may well prove to work well together, but need to get into the hands of a qualified reviewer at the same time.

I agree with this, Jeff. I set the contrast, saturation and sharpness on my GH2 once, when I set it up a year ago, and haven't touched it since.
Hybrid Camera Revolution (http://hybridcamerarevolution.blogspot.com)

Yeah, but you got to change it once. I agree, I rarely change a camera's setting once I have it where I want it, but on the other hand, I wouldn't be caught dead using the settings out of the box either (at least
for the Canon DSLRs).

And face - those features are available on every single new camera w/ video capacity costing over $500 (including cheaper Sony cams). Beyond the horrible customer relations false advertising creates, those are features that should be on the camera regardless.

If I am shooting event stuff, I would shoot this camera without hesitation. With autofocus on the kit lens, and the low light capability which I consider on a par with the 5D, if not better, it is great for that purpose. I don't shoot event that much, and the big issue is getting the maximum latitude fpr narrative shooting, so you can get detail as much as possible at both ends of the spectrum. Then in post, you adjust setting for the look you want. Thats how I shot the 5D for last three years.

To be fair, this camera appears to have a lot of latitude, but I am not sure if it reaches the 5D capabilities when you shoot the 5D in Cinestyle set up. I would like something near that capability in this camera, and I would probably buy 5 for a rental business I am contemplating.

This camera has one automatic setting that may be instrumental in helping with adding a bit of stretch to the range, . Its the on/off backlighting button. It is in auto, if you turn it on. Hardly professional. But that same button that appears on the other NEX camera, but with adjustability, is probably the missing Dynmic Range Optimizer.

Actually, when you really think about it, using this camera is mmore like shooting with film, where you have limited film stocks and film responses, and you just have to shoot accordingly. Sometimes I wonder if we just have to much adjustment on video cameras that makes it difficult to get a consistent product out of the camera.

I have started editing now. One of my green screen shots was from inside a car. Lot of green spill into the interior. Very hard to key as a result. I've ended up learning to use Rotobrush in After Effects (just bought it) as a result. That is a good thing.

Hey Chris.

I've been following your posts with great interest. I work as a video journalist in Guatemala, but have started to put together more long-form pieces as well. On paper the VG20 looked nearly perfect (aside from XLR input) but now I'm not so sure.

I have the Panasonic GH2, hacked for higher video bitrates and PAL/NTSC framerates (handy as I shoot for clients in both NTSC and PAL land).

Any idea how the image on the VG20 compares?

Thanks Chris.

Dave

Dave - I don't mean to answer for Chris, but I will be doing a side-by-side of the VG20 and my unhacked GH2 this weekend. I will post the results as soon as I'm done with the edit.

Bill
Hybrid Camera Revolution (http://hybridcamerarevolution.blogspot.com)

Great Bill! Look forward to reading about it!

Me too...

GH2 (esp with new hacks) a very interesting alternative to the VG20/Canon DSLRs.

Excuse my ignorance...

What exactly do you mean by the GH2 hack?...is this a firmware update, or something a "hacker" can do for you?

I too am interested in the GH2, but would like to have 60p capability and the extended recording time. Who/how is the hack performed?

Thanks,
Jeff

How to hack the Panasonic GH2 *Updated* | | OSGFilmsOSGFilms (http://osgfilms.com/hack-the-panasonic-gh2)

Allows for much higher bit-rates for video and a higher setting for audio quality. Newest hack allows for extremely high ISOs (which look surprisingly good).

Do you feel the GH 2 with the hack is as good
As the VG 20 or Canon 5D?

Jeff

What am I missing here ?

It seems the GH2 with hack, is the answer for those of us that would like to shoot with a DSLR rather than a large camcorder.

The GH2, hacked, has.....
140mins record time (still dont see why other DSLRs dont)
60p,60i,30p.24p ??
interchangeable lenses
large sensor...and on and on.
A good price !

So what's the down side??

jeff

Dave - I don't mean to answer for Chris, but I will be doing a side-by-side of the VG20 and my unhacked GH2 this weekend. I will post the results as soon as I'm done with the edit.

Bill
Hybrid Camera Revolution (http://hybridcamerarevolution.blogspot.com)

Bill:

So how did it go with the two camera comparison ? I had hoped the VG20 would put us behind this hacking requirement, but I find myself looking for the original hacker Trammel Hudson on the VG20.....I worked heavily with the group on the original 5D hack and then in early days of T2i hack.

As far as all the DSLRs, the sound issues have been my major problem always. I had resorted to dual system. With the film I shot last week, It was a XLR adapter, a boom pole and NTG3 mic, a field mixer, and the camera. no synching is making the edit so much easier so far. I think sound will record just fine, but I don't think I hit it exactly right, and experience so his in situations where I should have paid more attention. It was so nice to monitor, though there is certainly a bit of a delay on the earphone monitor. I found that when I had phones on, and was giving direction, I would unconciously slow my speech to try to let the camera catch up.....a bit irritating.

I don't pooh-pooh any of this. l was heavily involved in initial hacking of the 5D, it was a necessity then.

I never got to the GH2 because I was heavily invested in the EOS line, and the level of quaility I was getting for the narrative films I made was more than adequate. If I was shooting event stuff, I would definitely have considered. I still feel that getting back to the camcorder form factor is the answer, but many will disagree.

GH2 has been great for me too. But like you Chris I'd prefer not to use dual system (which I'm doing now). I also like the idea of the camcorder form factor.

Chris - what's the OIS like on the VG20 stock zoom? How's it handheld (balance, etc)?

Looking forward to the comparison!

What am I missing here ?
So what's the down side??

jeff


Well, there's a couple:

1 - It's a hack. I have a hacked T2i, and while it's decently reliable, it does seem to want to go on the fritz just when I really need it not too. Hacks are never going to be as reliable as actual, legit, firmware. Also, you have to load the firmware onto the memory card - which is always a wee bit stressful and time consuming.

2. It's a DSLR. Meaning, no built-in NDs, no XLRs, some sort of Franken-rig to make it usable as a full time video camera. In short, all the negatives (and positives) of using a tiny, non video dedicated, camera.

3. It's a micro 4/3s sensor. Some people (like Barry Green) will swear up and down that the difference between a 4/3's sized sensor and a S35 sensor is small. But lot's o people feel different. The difference between APS-C Canon sized sensor and the 4/3's is on the magnitude of 25%. Sony's S35 version is a bit larger then Canon's, so the difference is even greater. If you compare it to the Mark II's full size sensor, then a micro 4/3s sensor looks truly small.

Bottom line is that if you're already heavily invested in expensive glass, you'll prolly wince when your $2,000 Canon EF 14mm f/2.8L lens becomes a 28mm on the Panasonic GH2. In other words, double whatever the focal length your lenses are when you strap them on a Panasonic. Seeing how good, fast, wide angle lenses are particularly expensive, this turns off many a potential buyer.

Still an interesting option for sure.

Bill:
It was so nice to monitor, though there is certainly a bit of a delay on the earphone monitor. I found that when I had phones on, and was giving direction, I would unconciously slow my speech to try to let the camera catch up.....a bit irritating.
__________________________________________

Chris,
There should not be a delay if you are monitoring the cam audio out bus. I assume you are monitoring out of your mixer that has a compressor or limiter in the loop...that's causing the delay most likely.

Jeff

Nope. Right of the camera headphone jack. I normally would have no issue if listening on the mixer. ( I have SignVideo ENG44. One to the issues is there is an automatic limiter in this camera. Don't seem to be able to turn it off. I think I mentioned it before, but this appears to the first problem with it.

Bill:

So how did it go with the two camera comparison ?...

Sorry, Chris. I'm still shooting it. Picked the camera up late Saturday and did some still JPEG comparison shots at the beach just before sunset. On Sunday, I shot some studio stuff and exteriors. Tonight after work, I'll do some low light interiors. It will take a couple of days for the edit, but my immediate impression is that these are both great cameras.

The GH2 -- even without the hack -- beats the VG20 on moire and image quality. The GH2 also has multiple picture profiles and the ability to adjust color and sharpness, which the VG20 does not. The 2.6x Extended Tele Converter function on the GH2 is also a real advantage for the Panasonic.

But the VG20 has real advantages too. The headphone jack and high quality in-camera audio are big deals for me. With the GH2, if I want decent sound, I have to go dual system, with all of the challenges that poses during shooting and in post. I also like the VG20's performance in low light (a lot) and (this is a nitpick) I like the fact that, with the VG20, you don't have to go into the menu and switch settings to use a non-Sony lens. With the GH2, I have to drill down in the menu and switch a setting every time I change from a Panasonic m4/3 system lens to one of my old Canon or Nikon manual lenses.

As an old film guy, I also like the camcorder form factor.

I'm going to try to write a quick preview over on my blog tonight, even before I post the video, so you should be able to take a look at it tomorrow.

Bill
Hybrid Camera Revolution (http://hybridcamerarevolution.blogspot.com)

EDIT: Here is my blog post - Hands-on with the Sony NEX-VG20: http://hybridcamerarevolution.blogspot.com/2011/12/gh2-and-vg20-compared-first-english.html

Bill,

I've got my finger on the ORDER button for the GH2, awaiting your final comments on the GH2 vs VG20.

Please let me know which of the two you would chose to shoot video.

All advice welcomed.

Have fun, and thanks.

Jeff

Is this side by side video available to see please?

With the GH2, if I want decent sound, I have to go dual system,

Not if you use the very nice pana unidirectional mic.

Is this side by side video available to see please?

Sorry, Jalan. I didn't post the link here because Jeff H. no longer needed the help with his decision - he bought a GH2. Didn't realize that others were waiting for it too. Here it is: Hybrid Camera Revolution: Sony NEX-VG20 and Panasonic DMC-GH2: Side-by-side Comparison (http://hybridcamerarevolution.blogspot.com/2011/12/sony-nex-vg20-and-panasonic-dmc-gh2.html?m=1)

Hope you find it useful.

Bill
Hybrid Camera Revolution (http://hybridcamerarevolution.blogspot.com)

Not if you use the very nice pana unidirectional mic.

Steve - I use a decent unidirectional Azden external mic (arguably better than the Pana DMW-MS1) - and even with the audio level set on "low", the GH2's AGC produces a hissing noise floor in quiet rooms. I love my GH2, but it cannot match the sound quality of a 24 bit 96kHz recorder with full manual gain control.

Cheers & Happy New Year,

Bill
Hybrid Camera Revolution (http://hybridcamerarevolution.blogspot.com)

Sorry, Jalan. I didn't post the link here because Jeff H. no longer needed the help with his decision - he bought a GH2. Didn't realize that others were waiting for it too. Here it is: Hybrid Camera Revolution: Sony NEX-VG20 and Panasonic DMC-GH2: Side-by-side Comparison (http://hybridcamerarevolution.blogspot.com/2011/12/sony-nex-vg20-and-panasonic-dmc-gh2.html?m=1)

Hope you find it useful.

Bill
Hybrid Camera Revolution (http://hybridcamerarevolution.blogspot.com)
_________________________________________________________________________________
Hey Bill....
Great job Bill..thanks a million for taking time to help us all out.

I decided to get out of the Sony line entirely. I sold my Nex5N, purchased a GH2 plus a Canon XA10. I found I needed a real camcorder with power zoom more than the ability to change lenses. I feel you've proved the VG20 and GH2 are both good products...and one must just go with fits his shooting style and experience level. Happy 2012 and thanks again for your hard work....JEFF HINSON

Hey, Jeff
I've had the XA10 from when it was released & I'm sure you are loving it.
It is an extraordinary little cam- particularly for run n' gun, ENG, low light, pro audio, etc.
It's the first cam I've had that gives so many pro features in a really small package.
IMO the VG 10/20 is a fun camera and really good for "special" projects requiring "cine" sort of looks, DOF control, etc.
But, I find for most things I seem to grab the XA 10 as I head out the door...