Anyone else heard about this?

Canon's New Videocamera Launch!, Neil Moreno directs new Camera Spot
http://www.cinematography.com/forum2004/index.php?showtopic=8623&hl=

Canon Expo 2005 in New York
www.NYExpo2005.com

Password: ExpoSeminars

Well, now!

You know, I have this strange gut feeling that Canon is going to kick everyone's a*s with what they announce.

The seminar schedule looks intriguing indeed. Interesting that they start off with a Professional Camcorder Technical Seminar. Looks like all the Canon hounds will have their day! Then the agonizing wait to see it to fruition.

Patience... smatience!

Where is everyone on this? Where's the flurry of activity? Maybe it's still too early... hopefully they haven't given up on Canon.

Good things come to those who wait...

And even to those of us who already bought an xl2!

Aaahhhhh.... I see. Everyone's out using their XL2s and are too busy to care. That makes sense, maybe I should be out shooting as well.

Very exciting, though I really, really, really hope it's not HDV. I have a feeling that it is, though. Hopefully it will be 24p, but I would love it if it were closer to the panasonic camera rather than the SONY's. Ugh...it's the waiting that's the hardest part. Sounds like a song...

Kevin

It would really bite if that expo ends up being Aug. 22 all over again. :-(

But being the optimist, I shall wait.

The link no longer seems to work. Maybe Canon's just toying with us.

So what's the news? Can't access either site (the password provided doesn't work).

the fact that the password no longer works is making me think there is something to this (I was able to use it earlier!).

Well, I'll wait but I'll believe it when I see it.

Here 'tis. You cannot defeat me post-pullers! :-) KW

*plonk*

(dreadfully sorry, but if it can't fly there, then it can't fly here... my apologies! -- Admin)

You guys are killing me. What the heck did the site say?

Thanks Kevin. I guess we were typing at the same time.

I gotta tell ya guys, I just reread this thread, and had the image of a bunch of teenaged girls giggling around the locker in junior high...

We sound pathetic!

An accurate description, Richard!

Sorry I had to pull the quote from Kevin's post above... our policy is that we will not copy material from other message boards... if you weren't the original author, then it's an infringement, even if it was deleted. We can link to such material, but we can't copy it in full. Oh, wait -- that link is broken, isn't it? Well, what does that tell you.

I agree that the fact the original post has been purged speaks volumes about how reliable this is. But this is Area 51. Perhaps someone can at least paraphrase the contents of that post? Anybody who wasn't lucky enough to catch it the first time around is going to be extremely agitated over it, more agitated than should be warranted. People should at least be able to judge things for themselves, otherwise rumors just expand, inflate, and morph into even more bizarre conclusions. It seems counterproductive.

The copied comments that Chris rightly deleted were absent any real specifics; they just paraphrased our speculation: Wunderkam! (See: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost.php?p=349393&postcount=74) The implication was that Canon's new offering(s) will knock our socks off, but how so was left unsaid. Whether it is merely Canon's solitary opinion of their own camera, or we are truly about to see a Wunderkam...I guess we'll begin to know the answer in about mid-September. ;-)

Marco:

"...otherwise rumors just expand, inflate, and morph into even more bizarre conclusions..."

Behold, the impetus behind Area 51. That's what this board is for.

Seriously, I had to yank the quote that Kevin left because it's our policy. We can't allow a discussion from some other message board to be transplanted into this one... especially if it was deleted. It wouldn't be fair to that other board, you know, in the political scheme of internet message boards that would be rather dastardly if I allowed that sort of thing. That's no reflection on Kevin at all for posting it; it's just a one admin to another kind of thing. I wouldn't want some other message board doing that to us, so I'm certainly not going to allow it here. Sort of like the Golden Rule, do unto others... you get the picture.

If anybody is upset about not seeing the content of that original post, then please take it up with the message boards at cinematography.com, since they're the ones who deleted it in the first place. That's where it originated, so it's an issue between you and them. Hope this helps,

I couldn't imagine how Canon could possibly top Panasonic's offering. I mean, at Panasonic's price point, most people are already drooling for the HVX200 and have been for a very long time (since I saw that super 8 looking mock up even). I guess if I HAD to complain about something, it would be the 1/3 inch chips. But for 6 grand compared to 70 G's for Varicam, I find it tough to complain. Hmmmmm, I suppose Canon could keep the XL-1/2 form factor which seems to have a cult following. Pop some 1/2" chippers or maybe even a new advanced CMOS chip (or 3!!!!) in there. Interchangeable lens? Keep the price just under 10 grand? Maybe there is a little room for improvement after all. Wrap THAT camera up with a bow and I'll take it. Of course, if I even remotely smell the scent of HDV... no dice... already been down that nasty route. Anybody want to buy a camcorder?

No problems with that, Chris. I guess the post-pullers CAN defeat me!

I'm fine with your take on it and it is your site. I also can see the other side that once something like that is posted, it's sort of in the public domain. Maybe I shouldn't have copied/pasted, but surely it's okay to pass on information. Unfortunately, people, there wasn't much. Just the date of the supposed announcement (9/22) and that something is coming...but we knew that already, didn't we? It really gave no information of value.

I gotta get out of Area 51. You guys are scaring me in here. :-)

Kevin

Thanks Kevin,

"once something like that is posted, it's sort of in the public domain."

Maybe so, but the exact words that were used in that post are very much the property of the message board they were posted on. That's where the ugly head of infringement begins to raise itself.

The good news for you guys is that it turns out this post wasn't deleted, it was simply moved, without the benefit of a re-direct. So if you still want to check it out, you can find it located at:

http://www.cinematography.com/forum2004/index.php?showtopic=8622

Canon's part of the HDV consortium, right? That makes me sad.

How could a new Canon "revolutionize" anything when an HD XL2 already exists in the JVC? It may be hype, it may just be a GL3 that's affordable and great, but hopefully it's something CMOS-related and genuinely innovative. I know Sony has the most advanced CMOS technology when it comes to video, but Canon's dSLRs are amazing. Two things have stopped them from brining this technology to video, though: the need for large photosites and the fact that the thing can't dump data fast enough to do 60fps. The large photosite issue is also why none of their point and shoot cameras are CMOS.

Oh well, I'm REALLY curious. But I still think the HDX will be the best of the next generation.

Canon's part of the HDV consortium, right? That makes me sad. . . . How could a new Canon "revolutionize" anything when an HD XL2 already exists in the JVC?
If indeed Canon's HD offerings are HDV (nothing says it can't support multiple standards), there's probably a lot more to the HDV spec that it could implement. After all, everybody thought and said that 24p wasn't supported, and then JVC came along and said that it had been part of the spec from the get-go. Canon could offer higher bit-rates, 24p, and 4:2:2 color sampling. It could offer usable uncompressed output. It could offer half-inch imagers. There's quite a lot that Canon could do.

I think we spoke about this for our wish list with the xl2 but I'll throw it in there for this new cam, if canon really wanted to revolutionize the camera they would build in a mini 35 adapter, that way it would be the first 1/3 inch ccd (or cmos or lmos or almost or whatever) camera with a 35mm imager. I jsut wonder if they could still have thier famous backwards compatability between lenses. If they did do that those EF adapters would be worth their weight in gold. (actually with the rate that gold is going for these days it's possible it already is worth it's weight.) I don't know that's just my two cents.

On a side note birns and sawyer is getting the first production models of the jvc hdv cam today, they got the decks in yesterday which appear to be pretty cool.

But is it going to have a cup holder? That was also on the XL2 wish list....

I've wondered if we'll ever see an integrated mini35 type ground glass system as well. Hard to believe that would really be cheaper than just making a great big CMOS chip.

I only think it would eb cheaper because so many dvi-ers have been able to make thier own mini 35 for so cheap, the only problem was flipping the image, I imagine if you built the camera the flipping image thing wouldn't really be so difficult. But i guess you'd have a lot of issues with the whole lens size thing. But I still like the sound of that cup holder...

It's unbelievable in this day and age not to have a cup holder.

I'm glad this thread has finally gotten down to reality!

Yes, but can that cup-holder do both hot and cold beverages, that is the real question?

Ugh... wait and see....wait and see........I'll be in my trailer.

Guys, it's not going to have a mini35 built in. First of all, there are really no "cinema" cameras out on the market--even the dvx/hvx/jvc are prosumer 1/3'' general-purpose cameras. If you're doing news gathering, weddings, etc. the depth of focus is just way too shallow and telephoto lenses are too expensive (the XL2 is equivalent to what? a 800mm lens?)

Also, mini35s are horribly constricting in terms of what settings you can use, and you'll lose auto-focus and all sorts of stuff. It's just not happening--it's a specialty tool and it will remain one.

A big CMOS might be reasonable, though. A single 2/3'' chip might be nice and single CMOS chips seem to be where cameras are headed. Look at the Sony HC1 (also, Bill Kennedy of Panasonic told me that single chips may be the future for them as well.) Plus, Canon knows how to make these things super cheap. If it were compatible with the EOS mount and had an APS-C sized sensor, that would be interesting. As in, "I'll-sell-everything-I-own-to-buy-one-now" interesting. But it won't happen.

My guess: Gl3.

Good point... who likes to drink warm beer while filming??
Anyway, I got to thinking, I've been quite impressed with Panasonic's public relations with the independent filmmaker crowd (a.k.a. Jan). Obviously they've been listening with regards to 1080p and such. Does Canon have that kind of relationship with the indy filmmaker? Does Canon have it's own "Jan" who participates in these forums? No offense to Jan! She's invaluable. And do you think Canon would create something as innovative as a built in mini35 type device? I guess what I'm trying to say is, does Canon give us any love?

Matthew I don't like to base my wild predictions on things that are practical, I like wild wouldn't-it-be-cool-if ideas. So yeah you're probably right it won't have a mini 35 like device, but I think it would be great if it had some sort of switch that would move the 35mm device in front of the 1/3 ccd or out of the way (for run and gun whatever). But if you must be practical I would say that there would have to be some sort of neoprene spill guard next to the cup holder so that it would keep hot beverages from adding access heat to teh camera and cool beverages from causing condensation. (because it would be rough to have condensation on your built in mini35)

But back to real life, no idea what the canon will have.

That's a good point on the neoprene Nick, I wish more people thought the same way. I just hope someone from Canon is paying close attention to this thread.

Neoprene for a spill guard and to stop condensation? This is high-tech equipment here so be serious -- how about an actual de-humidifier built in! No more condensation warnings when moving between cold to warm areas AND with a good filtration system you're looking at fresh, potable water waiting for you right there in a drip bag. :-)

but if we have a drip bag why not just have two cupholders, one to hold the warm beverage then the other for the fresh potable water that you've created through condensation...

Truth be told john, I have alterior motives as my family owns a neoprene production plant and I'm vying for the contract from canon. (no more d*** wet-suits!)

I can't think of a reason why there couldn't be auto focus and OIS with a built in mini35. That would be a big part of the reason for having it built in. But I agree, it's wishfull thinking anyway. Indie film makers are probably the second or third biggest market for these camcorders, but the top is surely wedding and industrial videographers. Despite the prosumer name, I don't a significant number of consumers are buying any camcorder over $1,500.

As long as it has a built-in ice maker, I'll be satisfied. Central Texas summers can be a tad warm and tend to last for nine or ten months of the year. I need a camcorder that can keep my Shiner Bock chilled while I'm out shooting in the Hill Country.

Now here's what's *really* funny... remember what spurred this whole thread, was Brian's link to a post at another message board. Then that original post disappeared, until I found that it had been moved to another location on that other site, and I gave you guys the new link. *Now* it seems to be gone again.

Personally I think we're being played. Or should I say *you're* being played, because *I* know better than to believe something that didn't come from DV Info Net in the first place... know what I mean?

As long as it has a built-in ice maker, I'll be satisfied. Central Texas summers can be a tad warm and tend to last for nine or ten months of the year. I need a camcorder that can keep my Shiner Bock chilled while I'm out shooting in the Hill Country.

Now here's what's *really* funny... remember what spurred this whole thread, was Brian's link to a post at another message board. Then that original post disappeared, until I found that it had been moved to another location on that other site, and I gave you guys the new link. *Now* it seems to be gone again.

Personally I think we're being played. Or should I say *you're* being played, because *I* know better than to believe something that didn't come from DV Info Net in the first place... know what I mean?

Well Chris, I would ask for your input, but I know how darn restrictive those NDA's can be;-)

-gb-

NDA? What NDA. I am blissfully free of any NDA, and loving it!

No NDA here either, but I'll be Nearly Drunk on my A** before dinnertime. :-)
Still, there IS a Canon Expo in mid-Sep, AND that message was short on specifics but gave a generic "you'll be happy with our announcement at Expo" message. Maybe we're being played, but then again it could be Canon who have the last laugh. I still feel ok sticking to my May '05 guess that Canon will announce a Wunderkam in Sep/Oct. Don't know if Canon Expo really will bring us that announcement, but still see no reason why my guess was an unreasonable one.

Maybe they'll announce that all of their camcorders will include cupholders in the future. That would make a lot of people happy.

Maybe they'll announce that all of their camcorders will include cupholders in the future. That would make a lot of people happy.

... And I think to myself... what a wonderful world...

Canon will toss out some form of GL3 HDV cam, because it has to compete in that market, but what we all want to know is what is der vunderkam?

"Will not disapoint" indicates some form of HD, perhaps with a chip larger than 1/3. They could have licensed something from someone else, or they could use some of thier amazing cmos chips they have developed. I'll have to make a call and beg for some info.

ya know boys, this is wreak havoc on my predictions of when the new GL3(Fall'06)&XL3(Fall'07) will come out. ah well, in these days and age, i dunno if even Canon can follow their own strict guidlines.

"Will not disapoint" indicates some form of HD, perhaps with a chip larger than 1/3. They could have licensed something from someone else, or they could use some of thier amazing cmos chips they have developed. I'll have to make a call and beg for some info."Will not disappoint" means nothing to me, nor should it to you. The Panasonic HVX is certainly a revolutionary camera, but it disappoints along several lines: (1) third-inch CCDs, (2) fixed lens, (3) no on-board hard-drive controller; and that's without even seeing footage from the camera. My point is, Canon -- or any manufacturer -- can't help disappoint. Sure, you could say, "You're being unrealistic." And I'd say, "Screw that. Let the burden be on the manufacturers." Until there's an HDCAM Senior-quality camera with variable shooting speeds through 60p for well under $10,000, there will be disappointment -- and even then, someone will quibble. Such hype as "will not disappoint" tells me only that Canon thinks it has something great -- or, conversely, that it has a PR fiasco (like what happened with the Sony Z1) on its hands.

Such hype as "will not disappoint" tells me only that Canon thinks it has something great

It's too tedious to follow the origins of this thread, but I'm pretty certain that Canon never said anything at all. I believe that quote came from someone on another website who claimed to have inside knowledge. I don't think Canon comments on unannounced products.

While it's entirely possible that there was no official announcement from canon, I spoke with one of the retailer's out of L.A. and he told me that canon was announcing something in the middle of the month as well. On the one hand that's super cool, on the other, he probably was looking at the same websites we were. (note: meaning the rumor didn't originate on dvinfo so why trust it)

Also I think that Lawrence has a good point, When ever any camera comes out people are always comparing it to a bigger better camera. SD? why not SD 24p? SD 24p? why not HD? HD? why not HD 24p? HD 24p? Why not 1080 24p? 1080 24p? why not 4:2:2 like an f900? F900? why not a genesis? Genesis? It's too big... etc etc