The Panasonic DVX100 24p

I went and spent an hour with the Panasonic DVX100 at SMS a film and video rental house (and a Panasonic dealer). My conclusion:

In my opinion the DVX100 is the best way for a filmmaker to get the film look without time consuming software questionable filter processes or special lighting set ups to get the film look. Before I continue let me explain where I’m coming from. First when I say the “film look” I don’t mean the professional look and most indie filmmakers don’t mean this when they say it. If John Woo used a basic 3 chip video camera and shot like he generally shoots his movies you’d have a very professionally done movie shot on video, but you’d still know it’s video. With John Woo’s name attached to it it maight mean more but we’d still know video when we see it before it’s treated with some kind of film look technique. So I’m not talking about a shooting style I’m talking about a look. This camera has proven to me without a doubt that it is the camera I will chose to save money to buy. The GL2 is nice and at this point remains second choice to this Panasonic powerhouse.

Somethings to take into consideration. I shot out doors and when I was inside I shot in basic “store” type lighting, so there were no special set ups for my test.

The Modes

Now I played with the Pana in 24p basic, 24p Advanced, and 30p. I didn’t see much of a difference between the 24p settings but I understand the difference of one being used for straight to video use while the other is being used for film transfer (that being advanced mode). In 24p this camera reacted like film to colors and movement. Is it perfect? It’s still video, but does look it. Is it better than Canon’s frame mode? Yep, because of the cinegamma. Fast pans will cause a blur, and fast movement is picked up without the heavy strobing some cameras have. The 24p modes look film-like even without the cinegamma which some may choose to shut off to keep control of other camera functions but this is a user choice and doesn’t have the same exact look as 24p with the cinegamma on but by no means does it look bad either. I also did 30p with the cinegamma on and it too looked awesome, so those unsure about 24p don’t truely have to use it. Try 30p with cinegamma and see what you think. In normal mode this cam shoots a warm picture with sharp details that can be controled (there’s a control called “detail”). In 24p -30p this cam is perfect for low budget indie filmmakers. In normal mode this cam is perfect for pro camera operators of most types and low budget indie horror film makers. (I like the video look for horror flicks but many people will just flick the cine-switch>.

Colors

Absolutely vibrant. Saturated reds like some cams saturate greens. I like this (I’m thinking of a particular scene I have planned of a woman in a red dress) but some may not. Play with the Gamma. Colors are warm and accurate. I didn’t see any fringing but I hear you need to be in high contrast situations for that to happen. I was in an urban sprawl but there wasn’t a ton of high contrasty things to go by.

Focus Ring

Some complain about it feeling to loose. It got the job done. Personally I would’ve wanted it to feel more snug myself but it’s not a enough to detract from the value camera.

Sound

Many people complain about camera sound. These guys have put an awesome mic on this thing comparable to the one on the GL2. Plus manual sound controls.

16:9

I like to do everything in widescreen mode. The 16:9 is hot to death. I've heard it was native and I've heard it was just a special effect, either it's bomb. I’ve gone on about this before but you get to see exactly what you’re recording. No weird stretched picture just beautiful 16:9, especially when shooting in normal mode 16:9 ads a little something.

Gamma
There’s a lot of things you can do color wise by playing with the gamma. Saturation, desaturation, the whole nine. You have to try this for yourself to get the look you want.

Controls

Very easy to operate, it took me no time to figure out the controls. (I glanced at the manual about twice). The button you operate the VCR fuctions with is the same you control the on screen menus with. Nice. Camera to VCR mode is done by pushing a button versus clicking that dial from VCR to CAMERA to OFF. The dial is there but it’s just CAMERA and OFF. This baby has two zooms ( a ring and the handle). Didn’t really work with the handle zoom, I used the ring. In a film situation I’d probably be more likely to use handle zoom while turning the focus rings. I didn’t test the manual iris.

Style

Several people asked me what I was shooting. If you’re not looking to draw attention this cam may not be for you, but then again the VX1K or VX2K don’t exactly look like tourist cams. This is more the GL2’s place because it’s smaller and lighter.

Close

If you’re interested in seeing a tape of this email me at artstar@jps.net and I’ll tell you how to get one. If not just go down to your local Pana dealer and get one. I should warn you my shooting is shakey and sporadic. I was specifically interested in the film look. Sadly I taped over my pevious stuff so you won’t get to witness my martial arts mayhem. Peace out.

-Vinson

Thank Vinson -- very informative,

Thanks Artstar.

Re: "In my opinion the DVX100 is the best way for a filmmaker to get the film look without time consuming software questionable filter processes or special lighting set ups to get the film look."

Actually, lighting is very important with getting good results, as is shooting technique and the tools such as stabilizers. Also, you will want to get a better mic, such as a Senn ME66 or ME67 at the very least.

This "film look," do you mean shooting in 30fps progressive? The film look or looks, which are many, are achieved with many things: such as lighting, stabilizers and shooting technique. The cam is important but not as important with what I just mentioned. Just my opinion.

I get neat looks or film looks---if you want use this term---with any cam. Personally, I think filters are often ignored as well for this "film look." Check out Cokin's Sunsoft. That's one for a neat, film-like effect. It softens and brightens things up!...you often see it's use, or a similar filter, in movies and TV shows. Example, Stargate SG1 when they go to a planet with a bright sun, and sunny scenes with that warm-warm look. Andromeda seems to use this filter or a similar one a lot also.

Thanks Vinson,

Good information, it will prove helpful.

Jeff

<<<-- Originally posted by Frank Granovski : Thanks Artstar.

Actually, lighting is very important with getting good results, as is shooting technique and the tools such as stabilizers. Also, you will want to get a better mic, such as a Senn ME66 or ME67 at the very least. -->>>

True, but that's what cool about this cam. In natural lighting you're still getting the film look we indy filmmakers so desire. I started filmming in the store then he let me take it outside. But in the store the image was no less filmic than outdoors.

<<<--This "film look," do you mean shooting in 30fps progressive? The film look or looks, which are many, are achieved with many things: such as lighting, stabilizers and shooting technique. The cam is important but not as important with what I just mentioned. Just my opinion.-->>>

Nope totally different. I'm talking the look of 30p but with film's gamma curve if you can picture it. Think back to that whole MTV award thing. It looks like that only we all know it's not HD.

<<<--I get neat looks or film looks---if you want use this term---with any cam. Personally, I think filters are often ignored as well for this "film look."-->>>

I don't think so. Everyone knows about the Promist Black (I mean it was even my first attempt at a film look) and other filters like them. This isn't to say there's anything wrong with those methods either. When your Pana dealers get the DVX100 check it out and do this; shoot in 60i and 30p and play with the gamma. I bet you can get some of the same looks you get with filters. Do this too, play with it in 60i with the cinegamma on. Being a video pro I don't think anything will knock your socks off but I think you'll be impressed by what you can do. And take some time out with it. I took an hour and was pleased as punch. (Pleased as punch?)

-Vinson

Thanks. Yes, even in Vancouver, the Tiffen Black Pro Mist 3 is the most sought after video filter. But for a different film look, the Sunsoft or something similar is used often (for film and video). So both these filters are useful. I use the Sunsoft, so I easily recognize it's use when I watch TV. Or, maybe it's a Vancouver secret?

Maybe. It could be the best kept secret in Canada.

-Vinson :)

No, that would be our women. All you need is a cam, and they all come running!

Here are some Vancouver shot TV shows which I noticed use the Cokin Sunsoft or something similar:

First Wave
Andromeda
Stargate SG1
Smallville
The West Wing
The old X-files

They shoot Smallville in Canada? I hear the "Left Behind" television series is being shot there too. I think Chuck Norris is in it. I know he's one of the producers.

-Vinson

>>Left Behind" television series is being shot there too. I think Chuck Norris is in it. I know he's one of the producers.
<<

Chuck Norris doing Christian themed work? Now that's a laugh. That tells me the original authors have totally sold out.

I think the DVX100 does not have native 16:9 CCDs. I have always wondered if the DVX had a built in anamorphic lens.

<<<-- Originally posted by Frank Granovski : No, that would be our women. All you need is a cam, and they all come running!

-->>>

Frank have you ever been to Texas?! <ref: our Women> :)

<<<-- Originally posted by Nathan Gifford : I think the DVX100 does not have native 16:9 CCDs. I have always wondered if the DVX had a built in anamorphic lens. -->>>

No that's a mistake. As you say the 16:9 isn't native it just a special effect. My bad on that one.

-Vinson

Too darn bad it doesn't have 16:9 anamorphic. I was hoping that someone would either include 16:9 CCDs or anamorphic built in.

If you check around the net, you will find anamorphic lense adaptors coming out for it. Check out some of the sponsers for dvinfo.

The DVX100 is sure a cool camera. But the lack of manual lens option really sucks. I'm just hopping canon comes out with a XL2 with better chips , 24p and keep the modular form factor. Can't wait for that.
As for Texas women being the most beautiful women on earth, they sure are hot, I've been there. But not the hottest on the earth. The brazilian and spanish (not mexican but really from Spain) are the hottest in my opinion. The italians come right next. I've been in those countries and believe me, the women are very HOT.

Traditionally, Canon prosumer cameras use Panny CCDs (that where FRAME mode came from). IF Panasonic sells out the DVX100 CCDs, they may end up in the XL2... (I believe the DVC10 and DVC15 CCDs are in the GL1.)

Even if that were to happen, I highly doubt that the Canon camera would have the same great image controls as the DVX100. Gamma, Luminence-level-detection, matrix controls, chroma phase, and Chroma level, are all features that are usually lacking in other prosumer cams.

You can be assured that any Canon camera would have AF and GAIN control though. (even in faux progressive) And if you NEED those features, maybe you don't need the other image controls anyway.....

Panasonic raising the bar to the level of the DVX100 forces the other players, Sony and Canon, to at least improve their features sets to the level of the DVX100. If they don't, they will certainly lose market shares, or worse, leave the market segment. Canon, having traditionally been the poster child for the DV indie film maker market, will have to beat the DVX100 or give up the segment. I'm sure Canon will up the ante and produce the DVX100 killer. But if they don't, Sony certainly will.

I think they both will announce new cameras in the first half of next year. They can't afford to give the DVX100 too much of a lead. PMA is in March and NAB is in April. Either, could be possible targets for announcing new cameras. So, stay tuned.

Jeff

Sony will probably not come out with anything soon (first of the year) at the price range of the DVX100 because that would totally destroy their sales for the PD150 and VX2000. As long as they are still making money off those they would be dumb to bring something out that would kill their own product. They would only do it if they really had to...which probably would lead to a quick send off of a faulty cam. Now Canon on the other hand...maybe they will release an XL2...but still you have to imagine that it will have its tradeoffs too (won't be significantly better then the dvx100...it will just draw the canon followers). Remember...some functions were left off because of money issues. Panasonic could of added a lot more the the camera but they wanted to keep it under $4,000 (Which I am glad they did!!!). The camera also has the ability to be upgraded through the internet meaning that some features (ie, pushfocus on progressive) may be enabled down the road. If you wait for something better you are taking a risk when you have a definite winner right now.

Just my thoughts...

This camera is already affecting pd150 sales. The problem for Sony and others, even if they announce at NAB it will be another 5 to 6 months before shipping, unless they have something up their sleeve. They will probably discontinue the PD150 if they announce a product similar to the dvx100. Personally I think Sony has been screwing over everyone for quite some time. They have the largest, best funded R&D on the planet. Why they don't already have a good affordable progressive camcorder is anybodies guess.
IMHO Sony got arrogant and lazy and are riding on their reputation. Be interesting to see how they respond.

I agree. I personally don't think Sony or anyone else will come out with something (that will stand up to the DVX) until this summer at the earliest. And when they do put something out, everyone is going to be speculating on when they 'next' state of the art camera will come out (who knows...maybe panasonic will keep the lead). This is why I didn't hesitate to buy this beauty (DVX100). By the time they come out with something better I will have a few short movies made and have a lot experience shooting and controlling the camera in 24P (makes you more aware of your pans and shots).

So how much is the Panny VS the VX2000/PD150 and XL1S?

I currently have the XL-1 and still is a good camera for what I use it for, however now with the DVX100 it will give me more options to choose from. :)


Oh and Canadian Women are also very good looking, because you have a vast culture mix that produces awesome looking women!!
And that's a fact :)

Thanks,
Shlooky

I think a number of people are probably wondering if native XLR on the PD150 is worth it. The other thing I think Sony was thinking would happen is the adoption of HDTV. That would have put both the VX and PD150 which can support 24p (in PAL) in pretty good position.

The question about the XL-2, I think would be at least a year off since the S is just barely out of the blocks. It would not surprise me that a XL-2 prototype exists in the inner bowels of Canon, but I bet only a few people know about it.