Pro 3D Handheld Camcorders Comparison Review at DVInfo.net (http://www.dvinfo.net/article/acquisition/3d-pro-handheld-camcorders-comparison-review.html)

Excellent article! Thank you!

Hi Tim, good review and aligns with my experiences with the Z10000 and 3DA1. One point I would add about the 3D display mode on the Z10k not having a dedicated button is that this is easily accomplished using one of the 3 user keys - I always have User 1 set as a toggle which goes round 2D/MIX/3D on the LCD display.

Although the low light performance of the 3DA1 is not as good as the Z10k I have to be honest and say that if you can control the lighting and keep the camera in it's sweet spot (up to about 3-6dB of gain max) it creates by far the best looking images. The best pictures from the 3DA1 are really a lot better than the best from the Z10k although the useful range of the latter is wider.

As usual we are left wishing for an "in-between" model, with the lens range & IA of the Z10k but the IQ and SDI out of the 3DA1, for perhaps a similar price to the wonderful HPX250, around $5k?? And P2?

I terms of NLEs, the view is oriented to the mac - and gives not the complete picture for the windows world. Edius 6.5 has not been launched yet. It can edit both the Z10K, the Sony and the JVC footage, even if we do not yet it Edius 6.5 will have an MVC encoder (so it is not sure if you can create 3D Blu-ray with Edius 6.5). The JVC footage can be edited in addition in Cyberlinks Powerdirector 10, but also in Magix Pro X4. The Z10K and Sony footage, but not the JVC footage, can be edited in Vegas Pro 10/11 but also in Vegas Moviestudio HD Platinum 11.

I would also not argue that the small IO of the Sony is the "best solution" because I think that there is no "best" solution for the IO. Given the lower depth bracket that one can achieve with 31 mm, the 42 mm of a Z10K can be an advantage too - depending from the situation and the distance to near- and farpoint.

The idea to have a separte output to L and R for the Z10K is great, but not foreseen. Maybe in a Z10001 if that will be available sometime. A firmeware update where one could store the files separate to the two cards - maybe that could work, I do not know. But would be a fine possiblity. At the moment the capturing to the Ultrastudio 3D or Decklink HD extreme 3D is the best solution maybe - or somone may also take the Cineform products. Ultrastudio 3D is limited to the Mac world at the moment, given the focus to Thunderbolt what is not available for Windows yet.

I thought the overall review was good, but also felt the MAC angle was a bit heavy, giving camera's negative feedback because OSX can''t handle their files appears lopsided. Rather give Apple a thumbs down for failing to keep up!

As Wolfgang rightly points out, there are actually a plethora of platforms which handle all these files natively, not least amongst them, Edius 3D or Edius 6.5 as it will be known.

Several Z77 motherboards became available last month with Thunderbolt, as the year long exclusivity deal between Apple and Intel is now over - so, UltraStudio 3D becomes available for the PC!

MSI, and Asus have boards available now.

Paul :-)

I am aware that there are new boards - but not new windows laptops up to now. And the use of Ultrastudio 3D makes sense for laptops mainly. Ok, one can use an Apple.

If someone would only produce an HDMI1.4a frame-packed to twin HD-SDI convertor many of these issues with smaller 3D cameras would disappear. It would then be possible to use two off-the-shelf external recorders (Samurai/Nanoflash/Shuttle) to capture separate left/right files at full resolution.

I did try this with Aja (for a sort of "inverse Hi5-3D") but had no response. Maybe Matrox or Black Magic might be more amenable? :)

I used the trial version of Edius when it was available for editing the Z10k footage and it worked very well indeed. As Wolfgang says it's not available yet but it is due to be out in either June or July, so very close. There was no blu-ray support in the trial, don't know if that will appear in the final product or not, but there are other inexpensive ways to burn blu-rays.

Ultrastudio 3D is able to capture two streams using thunderbolt - it would be great to use that with compact camcorders like the Z10K or even a TD10. I do not know if the two streams are splitted up but I think so.

I would like to see a unit like Ultrastudio 3D with two hdmi inputs - since then we could use the unit also with two consumer camcorder and a side-by-side rig to capture the footage. And maybe use Ultrastudio 3D also to preview the streams. But since they stick to thunderbolt I will wait anyway since I do not want to use a Mac. Maybe similar that others do not wish to use a PC.

So funny, the solution with the Ultrastudio 3D should work with a Mac by now. But that is not discussed in the paper.

Tim, nice comparison of the three cameras. I only have one disagreement which is that having owned all three cameras it's been my experience that the Absolute Worst Performer In Low Light Award goes to the Sony NX3D1U. It is without peer in this group for it's ability to deliver the noisiest images in even decently lit interior scenes. It is so atrocious that after loaning it out to a friend to do some sit down interviews in 3D - all very well lit, I did a bit of transfer for him and was so appalled at the noise level throughout the pictures - even on well lit faces that I listed it on Ebay that day and am no longer an owner of one.

Outside in daylight, it performs on par with the others though.

Very important piece of data. Thanks Bruce.

I only have one disagreement which is that having owned all three cameras it's been my experience that the Absolute Worst Performer In Low Light Award goes to the Sony NX3D1U.
Seconded. After shooting with the 3DA1 and NX3D1 side-by-side on my brightly lit greenscreen, it's amazing how much more noise is in the Sony footage.

Matt, so how did the 3DA1 green screens hold up in post? Also, can you even pull a key on the Sony footage?

I've shot a few green screen days with the 3DA1 and even with a lot of light poured in there it had some degree of noise in any shadow areas. I didn't do any of the post on those but got no complaints from them either.

Matt, so how did the 3DA1 green screens hold up in post? Also, can you even pull a key on the Sony footage?

I've shot a few green screen days with the 3DA1 and even with a lot of light poured in there it had some degree of noise in any shadow areas. I didn't do any of the post on those but got no complaints from them either.
Hi Bruce! The 3DA1 footage looks great, is very clean, and creates an excellent key (using AE's Keylight). I used it as the CU camera, because I figured the larger IA would fit better with the longer lens. I used several lights, but they were lower wattage, so I had to use the +3dB gain, but there's still little perceptible noise in the image.

I didn't have any problem pulling a clean key with the NX3D1, despite the noise. But it's distracting, how much noise crawl there is in the keyed image (especially since I'd like to make this projection-friendly). I'm experimenting with denoisers, both pre- and post-key, to see if I can minimize that. Also, the matte edges are much crunchier, more granular, than the 3DA1 footage.

I have a video sample, if you'd like to check it out, on Vimeo. It's one of the interviews, cut-down, and keyed (in 2D) over some youtube footage (my way of thanking the interviewee). It has both cameras' footage. The keys are somewhat rough (I'm sure I'll spend more time on the final). Oh, and you can see how rosy the 3DA1 makes skin tones.
Neil Theise, M.D. - Complexity Theory & Panpsychism on Vimeo

Matt, good choice in camera angles per camera. I some green spill on the face and I think you could apply some spill suppression filter to it to eliminate that. I'm not sure what's used now, but in the olden days (1990's) we used Ultimatte a lot. It's an expensive plug in but it works magic. I know there are comparable plug ins now like Primatte and others too. Green spill is more annoying to me than a hard edge on shoulders and arms.

Nice work and a worthy project too.

I some green spill on the face and I think you could apply some spill suppression filter to it to eliminate that.
Yeah, I agree. That's one of the short cuts I took on this one, but there are tools in AE's Keylight to deal with it, as well.

May I suggest testing Robuskey? I find it far far better than any of the AE tools - very fast and very clean - available for win and mac and supports many applications such as AE, FCPX etc .

Paul :-)

There is a big difference between a chroma key and a matte. Chroma keys are subtractive processes and mattes are additive. What that means in practice is that a chroma key is either on or off at any given point and cannot reproduce subtleties like transparent articles or smoke as well as an additive process like a matte can. Things like fine hair detail always have a cut out look with a chroma key - it's what they used to use on the weatherman for local TV. Nowadays, the two terms seem to be used interchangeably though.

Here is a link to the Ultimatte white paper about this, I'm not recommending Ultimatte but it looks like on their download page you can still download and try it. To carefully select your compositing tool is an important step in achieving a truly organic composite. Look for one that uses this type of additive process and you will be happy with the results.

Ultimatte vs ChromaKey (http://www.ultimatte.com/UltimatteMain/Ultimatte_vs_ChromaKey.html)

Nice comparison, but I would like to see a little more attention to user abilities to control the image while shooting.

My experience is very limited with the JVC but an early version I saw at NAB 2 years ago showed that all functions had to be accessed from the touch screen which meant changing anything including iris was difficult . I might be wrong about that now. The Sony had way to little control which you mentioned. The Z10000 while not ideal by any means still offered the most user control for a professional shooter. It was enough to get the job done and I agree that its smaller IA makes it the best choice these days for a low priced 3D professional shooter. My biggest questions about it are of course editing ( that's kept me away so far) and image quality. How does it compare to the 3DA1? Better in low light but how much worse when the 3DA1 is at its best? Is it OK on a big TV?

I was surprised when you said noise was important in 3D as it seems to me that noise often cancels out in 3D and you can get away with surprisingly high levels of gain when you need it.

Quality differences between the TD10 - or here called the 3DA1 - are minor to the Z10K, at least if you do not consider the tools you have to adjust the Z10K. I am talking about both the control that is offered by the Z10K, but also about the possibility to build your own scene files and generate your own look.

I agree that noise tends to cancel out in 3D - that is also my eperience from using both the TD10 and the Z10K.

Editing - well, I see not really an issue here. I use Vegas Pro 10/11 and that is fine, also Vegas Moviestudio HD Platinum is fine yet. For the Mac world it may be another story.

May I suggest testing Robuskey?
Ultimatte vs ChromaKey (http://www.ultimatte.com/UltimatteMain/Ultimatte_vs_ChromaKey.html)
Thanks Paul and Bruce for your recommendations. I will look deeper into both solutions.

Bruce, you inspired me to go back and finesse the key, to remove the green spill. These 2D cuts of the interviews are just part of my thank you to the interviewees, rather than anything I'll show to a distributor, but I spent enough time on them, that I may as well do the key right, and practice these solutions for later, when it really matters. Thanks again!

Interesting article.
One sidenote: 3D-ONE Professional 3D camera systems : Home (http://www.3d-one.com/) introduced their full HD CP 31 camera before Panasonic did.
It was even available before Panasonic announced their AG-3DA1.
But somehow they didn't get the news out as effective as Panasonic later did...