Hi All,

Pulled my FS700U out of the box today and set it up and immediately experienced an issue I haven't seen reported - a severe lag in the on-board monitor.

The monitor's image goes to fudge when using the expanded focus rendering it almost completely useless as a focus assist. I'd expected this and planned on adding an EVF. That aside, there is a split second delay in the image generated by the display. The image goes completely to jelly with a little back and forth movement. Is this a defect or have other's had the same experience? Is there any way to know if the lag issue would extend to an EVF?

Tim

Update: Steadyshot is greyed out and a full reset haven't changed the condition.

I cannot say I noticed the lag on the monitor, but as soon as I attached an evf (new alphatron). It was hugely noticable. This is irrespective of full output with data, or just clear out.

I held off evf's for dslr, so it's my first in years and assumed it was a factor of all evfs. I tried sdi as well as hdmi in different framerates as well to check.

As far as I know the expanded focus button (zoom in), doesn't work via the out anyway, its down to your evf to render you up a zoom in. There is one on the alphatron and it seems to work.

I'll put the alphatron on my dslr and confirm if its any different.

Thanks Kieran. Yesterday I took the camera back to the dealer and tested it against their demo camera. Both camera's LCDs showed a noticeable lag between movement and display. They told me they hadn't received any feedback from other clients on the issue but would pursue an explanation from Sony.

Is it that other camera's haven't exhibited this effect or people are accepting lag with in lieu of the price point/features?

I shoot a lot of documentary so reacting with the scene is vital. Sorry to hear the lag is amplified when attaching the Alphatron EVF. Part of me had hoped the on-board lag issue might've been circumvented with an EVF on SDI.

Waiting to hear what Sony has to say and will post the results.

HDMI will typically add a 1 or 2 frame delay due to the way the signal is processed. Any external LCD or EVF using HDMI will exhibit lag as a result. The Alphatron exhibits a little over 1 frame of delay when used with HDSDi, more when using HDMI.

You'll only get stedishot when using an E-Mount or A-Mount lens.

I find the slight lag on my FS700 barely noticeable and the expanded focus function works very well.

Thanks alister for chiming in. Hopefully it's just a setting then.

Tried the alphatron with my d7000 dslr and almost zero lag. So it's not the evf.

Must be a setting or format or something on the fs700. I get super jello in comparison. Didn't really notice it onboard though.

I brought the camera in to the dealer, where they compared it side-by-side with their rental model. Both exhibited the same amount of monitor response lag. The dealer has acknowledged the issue and contacted Sony. Sony, they say, have brought an FS700 into their facility for testing. Waiting to hear the results of their inquiry.

The FS100 had significant lag both onscreen as well as to an external monitor in my experience as well... I talked with the rep at NAB who claimed to have no idea of what I was talking about and several people hanging around chimed in and said they had noticed the same thing but though it was "just them".

At LEAST 2 frames on camera and at least 2 more via HDMI, in my experience in 1080P30.

Just followed up with the dealer, who is still waiting to hear back on Sony's test results. Will update when the information becomes available.

I'm told the Sony lab is understaffed and they won't be able to look into the issue until next week.

Yesterday, I flipped the camera into stills mode and watched the monitor lag issue disappear. This gives me hope that the issue can be resolved.

Most likely the processing of the image into 24P and 30P is taking longer than you would like. Lots of digital converters add delay and this can be very noticeable. I first noticed this problem on my Canon XLH1 way back when and it doesn't surprise me at this price point with the FS700. When i was at Abel Cine the other day it looked like the on board LCD was a bit better than the HDSDI output.

Here is a photo that will show the approximate frame delay between the incoming image and the monitor on the FS700.

Looks like its about 3 frames.

I've noticed it only at 24P. All other frame rates have very little noticeable monitor delay. The SDI out is a frame ahead of the HDMI out on all frame rates.

Love the camera - already missing that TC out port though.

Here is a photo that will show the approximate frame delay between the incoming image and the monitor on the FS700.

Looks like its about 3 frames.

Hey Chris,
Good visual demonstration of the issue. What settings did you use for frame rate? If you had an external monitor hooked up it would be interesting to see if the delay on the output is the same for the internal and external monitors. Either way I bet it is built in to the architecture and hard to eliminate.

That was 23.97fps 180deg shutter.

I assume there is a similar delay with audio. Sounds like same issues all the way down the the VG20. When I am shooting my VG20, the audio delay is noticeable when I have headphones on, and talk. I try to slow down my conversation with talent and others as I want the camera to catch up with me.

Someone has posted on another forum they beleive it to be fixed at least externally by outputting 1080i instead of 1080p.

Doesn't seem so for me. Same on sdi between 720p and 1080i, maybe a frame less on hdmi vs 1080p.

Incidently the alphatron unless I am missing a setting doesnt like 1080p over sdi. In 720p it blanks the output when you hit record. 1080i on sdi seems to be fine though.

Anyone notice using 1080i reduces any issues?

Another incidental. DO NOT set 576 on hdmi at 50p for output to an alphatron. Results not good, barely got it happy again. Presume though the camera tries to output it, 576 at 50p is non standard. I saw some 25p pulldown settings were set but assume unrelated.

25/30p over 1.5G HDSDI is not a valid SDI configuration. Some non-standard devices can work with it but not many. Normally you must use PsF for 25/30p over HDSDI, that is format that complies with the HDSDI specs.

For 3G HDSDI you set the output to 60/50P and turn off PsF.

Update. I haven't forgotten this post. No response now from Sony in two months for all my chasing up answers. It's become clear that the monitor lag is an issue the FS700 has processing the progressive signal. No answer from Sony tells me they have no answers to give. The monitor lag is significant enough that it puts the operators reflexes 3 frames behind ball when capturing and reacting with live action which is largely the production environment I intend to use the camera. I'll continue to press Sony and will update this thread as soon as more info becomes available.

Tim

I expect a slight lag from the progressive signal but find the delay just too large on the FS 700. I've heard from Sony on the issue:

"The delay in the viewfinder you see is normal, 24p looks worse because 1/24th second is slower than 1/30th."

Not satisfactory but good to know this is a non-issue to Sony!

Hi guys, I am fresh here on the forum.
Recently purchased FS700 and love this camera. Nicely handled it perfectly fits its niche of below $US10.000.00 camera.
I amusing only external monitior - TV logic.
Lag is The problem.
Well, this lag dirves me crazy. I spoke with Sony, raized the issue and only later bumped into this forum...
Any news ideas how to overcome/dinminish this lag?
I normally shoot at 30 P or 24P.

Unfortunately the answer is no, not at this time. The progressive signal lags 2-3 frames while the interlaced signal does not.

Shoot interlaced or 'don't be so sensitive and get used to it" are not acceptable solutions nor is the price point of the camera an excuse.

I also just got an FS700 and am annoyed at the lag. I'm still get 2 frames of latency even on interlaced frame rates and outputting interlaced signal. Anyone have any suggestions?

On Sdi and hdmi? 1080i?

Sorry yes, SDI, 1080i. I've tried every combination(I think) of recording format and output format.

I was disappointed with the lag as well, though I am getting used to it. I recently found a way to improve it. This coming from the folks at Kinotehnik. I use the Kinotehnik LCDVFe. It's a lovely VF. The guys at Kinotehnik told me to set the OUTPUT of the FS-700, NOT the record mode but he output of the camera to 60p. It indeed smoothed it out and and reduced the lag by as much as half, not perfect but much improved. I'm thinking that maybe the Kinotehnik may be the only VF to accept 60p. I hope this brings some relief to those who can utilize it.

I was disappointed with the lag as well, though I am getting used to it. I recently found a way to improve it. This coming from the folks at Kinotehnik. I use the Kinotehnik LCDVFe. It's a lovely VF. The guys at Kinotehnik told me to set the OUTPUT of the FS-700, NOT the record mode but he output of the camera to 60p. It indeed smoothed it out and and reduced the lag by as much as half, not perfect but much improved. I'm thinking that maybe the Kinotehnik may be the only VF to accept 60p. I hope this brings some relief to those who can utilize it.

Hmm! Very interesting! Would it possible to see a quick mobile phone video of the lag in action? Side by side with the Kinotech and the FS700 monitor. I've held off bying any evf so far because for me the lag is a no go especially for handheld work.