OK so I'm just editing this video that is going really well, when just after the vows I notice the groom take off his lapel mic - look at it as if he didn't know what it was - and put it in his pocket!!!!!! I didn't notice at the time but If i had - would I have gone over, fished it out and put it back on? pretty sure I wouldn't - The final blessing at the high alter is pretty muffled after this point (audio from the church PA was hissy and poor as well) but I always put my Zoom at the high alter so I can use that thank god!

Pete

I would never interupt a ceremony unless it was a matter of life and death. This groom must be a complete moron becaue unless the lav mic sort of just grew out of his lapel I would have to assume you put it on him and told him what it was.

Hi Peter

I had just one occasion where I carefully checked both lavs for interference and the ceremony started...while the readings were being done on the left of the Church and I was filming them a musician (guitarist) came in to setup so he could play the exit song and turned on his gear and it killed the groom's mic (must have been the same frequency!!) The B&G were sitting on the extreme right so I grabbed a spare transmitter sneaked around the back of the pews and exchanged it without anyone even noticing!!

If it had been anything else I wouldn't have moved a muscle!!! I always explain to the groom what I'm doing and tell him not to fiddle with it!!! Obviously it pays to check your mics against the Church mics too!!!

Hence the need for having a backup for your backup!!! It usually pays dividends to hook a lav and transmitter to the priest even if you don't use it..that way you can just switch receivers if the worst scenario happens.

You definately wouldn't stop the ceremony half way thru the vows and say "Oops guys, sorry, I forgot to turn the groom's mic on!!!" My groom mic is put on and turned on at least 15 mins before the ceremony starts...what he says and discusses with the rest of the guys is fun to listen to anyway!!!

Chris

Well I don't use wireless because of interference worries and some churches are not happy with them, so i use Olympus digital recorders - I usually have 4 on the go as well as my Zoom but still - the groom's mic is crucial for those vows - I can only guess that he assumed once the vows were done it wasn't required!

Pete

That's incredible Pete! I can't believe a groom would do that. However I wouldn't loose any sleep over the audio and I would just deliver the dvd as it is. Its his problem especially when his new wife sees what he did!
If you had seen him doing that during the service, the feeling to shout stop! Would have been almost overpowering, however none of us would have done so I'm sure.
It must be the same feeling you get in your stomach when you think you haven't pressed record half way through a service.
John

John - I'm just thankful it got the vows - I'm very happy with the rest of the edit and so will the couple be I'm sure.

I've only been burned once by not pressing record (actually the camera was recording and so when I pressed to record I was actually stopping it) but I now obsessively keep glancing to see the timecode going round!

Pete

Hi John

That IS a great feeling...looking down at the camera half way thru the ceremony and all you see is the green paused icon on the LCD!

I have an extra LCD on top of the camera so I can watch the status and also I always make sure my rear tally light is running..when you are behind the camera with your 2nd camera the red light is great comfort !!

The really worst bit is when you push record and accidentially double press it!! My friend did it for not only the entire ceremony but also the reception speeches too!! He did say he was shaking when he pressed it (it was his first wedding) I have done that shooting cutaways with the 2nd cam..you pick it up to record the next cutaway shot and it's already recording (a great 2 min clip of the carpet down the aisle!!!)

Maybe something like a Yamaha C24 is a nice backup for the groom in his other pocket and a 2nd mic where he can't see it???

Chris

At a wedding of mine last year, the officiant at outdoor ceremony completely forgot to have the crowd sit down. As a result, my second camera had no view of the action (nor did many o the people. It also cut off any cool site lines for me and my regular camera and I had to stay parked at a single vantage point. I chose NOT to interrupt and did not tell the officiant. Later on, I asked the bride. She told me she would have preferred I tell the officiant. (Not just for the video sake, but for her onlookers on the day.)

Per the original question, I feel my job is to record what is happening, not to direct it. I do get involved during the cake cutting if needed, as the photographer will, etc, but as a videographer I feel it is impertinent to try and direct things. If I can direct something to help my video WITHOUT interfering with ANYTHING, than I will do that.

Personally I would never interrupt a ceremony for any reason short of seeing a fire break out in the church or someone having a medical emergency. Even then, I would tell someone else, and let them make the announcement, not me.

What about my scenario just above your post, Jeff? Would you not whisper to the officiant that the crowd should be seated? (If I had it to do over again, I would -- and the bride would have been happier, too).

My God no, I would never approach the altar during a ceremony, for any reason. I might consider telling a member of the family and let THEM do it, but here in Cincinnati, during a Catholic ceremony especially, you best stay away from the altar.

It's unthinkable to me.

By pointing out to the bride that you could have done this, but didn't, the bride can feel that you knew what needed to be done, and you didn't do it, and that makes you look bad, in theory. I would not have said a word to the bride until the edit was done and then let the officiant take the fall.

In the end, it's not your fault, nothing to be reasonably done but move your camera.

I have a tripod that goes up to 9' so the only thing to do would be for me to raise my tripod up high enough over the heads of the people, but that is easy to see in hindsight.

This was a rare case, hopefully and won't happen again.

I hear you. It actually wasn't a formal church ceremony with an altar. It was outdoors and more laid back. It's just that the officiant was nervous and/or inexperienced and completely forgot to seat the guests. The only reason I even considered (at the moment) approaching him and whispering -- between segments -- was that everyone was so crowded around the bride and groom that hardly anyone would have noticed my doing so.

But yes, like you, my inclinations are otherwise.

Chris, my second cameraman used to say I was too paranoid about Checking things. I double check things and then check again..until of course he got caught out with the button press! Now who's paranoid haha. Fortunately I have never come across a groom, like Petes who has done anything like that to me. I think words would fail me. I would love to see the footage of it Pete..

Hi - Here it is - you can clearly see the guy take a hankie out of his pocket - dislodging the lapel mic - looking at it and then stuff it back in his pocket!

https://vimeo.com/47183111

I've has a fair share of laid back weddings where the officiant forgot to tell the guests to sit. Sometimes they just sat on their own, sometimes not. Not my job to direct the ceremony. Some officiants around here WANT the people to stand I guess.:-(
I am so paronoid about pressing the red button that I continue to check the running time in the LCD even after I KNOW I pressed record just once. Can't help, must be my OCD kicking in. :-)

A few weeks ago the B&G asked me to record private messages to each other before the ceremony. I did that but during the brides I must have gotten really quick to stop recording after she got done becaue I looked at the running time and it wasn't. I thought about asking her to redo her message but decided to chance it. I got lucky. I just was to fast to stop reording before I looked at the LCD. Whew.

By pointing out to the bride that you could have done this, but didn't, the bride can feel that you knew what needed to be done, and you didn't do it, and that makes you look bad, in theory. I would not have said a word to the bride until the edit was done and then let the officiant take the fall.

Agreed - and that's what I did. But she was still annoyed I didn't whisper something. You can't always win. Even sometimes remaining unobtrusive doesn't win.

And Don, yes, I agree with you, too, about it not being our job to direct a ceremony. And yet, in the situation I described, I think there's some gray area between whispering something to an officiant who has neglected something pretty important and all out directing things. And yet I still kept it to myself. But if the situation came up again -- cool couple, laid back ceremony, officiant who forgets to seat people when no one but the first row can see anything, I think I'd whisper something. (The bride in this scenario at least would have thanked me!)

You could really piss off an officiant by saying anything to him, and then you would come out looking even worse, and you would look bad in front of a whole room full of people. "The videographer interrupted our ceremony, can you believe it?" Is what you would hear from most couples.

You can't go back and change this event, but it is not your job if someone else screws up to fix it. We are there to record. To speak to an officiant during the ceremony is an inappropriate crossing of boundaries.

That being said, there could be, during a relatively informal ceremony, an opportunity to speak to the minister about something like this. However, in my area, the chance to do such a thing would be so rare it's not even worth thinking about.

I can only guess that he assumed once the vows were done it wasn't required!
Pete
looking at the vid, i think he knocked the lav off, and was sort of looking at it and like wondering what the heck is this thing and where did it come from?
Unfortunately he didn't have the presence of mind to clip it back on, and maybe stuffed it into his pocket in a moment of panic, some guys getting hitched can be a bag of nerves!!
Note to self - make sure you rehearse the groom in replacing a lav should it become detached for any reason.

As far as interrupting the ceremony i'd be the same as most here - only in an emergency.

and i too was caught out a while back, admiring the clear, steady footage i was getting of a welcome speech at an event, only to realise the cam was not recording - bit of a red faced moment!!
since then it's check and check again :-)

One of my favourite things about magic lantern software is the big red cross in the screen when you are not recording..now if all cameras did that as standard life would be much less stressful .

Well, you still have to look at the screen :-)

But seriously, the only time I would interrupt an ongoing ceremony is for something like a fire. There was one ceremony where the officiant forgot to switch on the mike for the PA system. I was standing in the back, behind the guests, and could signal to the officiant by cupping my hand over my ear, but that was not interrupting the ceremony.

My job is to record what happens as it happens. If stuff goes wrong, that is what happened.

It's a very interesting debate here and am important one.

I just want to reiterate, Jeff and others, that's it's not always as black and white as you're describing. In my scenario (again, the scenario in which I did not intervene, much to the chagrin of the bride), there would have been opportunities to whisper in a word (to the non-clergy, inexperienced officiant) without actually interrupting the ceremony and bringing attention to it. (such as during the long pause as a reader came out from the standing audience). During a more formal church ceremony w/ altar and Priest? No, of course not (barring emergencies). But in this situation, we were all pressed up against each other (because of the crowd standing and the narrow outdoor confines).

Unobtrusive as we may be (and I pride myself and even err on the side of staying out of the action), we are still part a part of things, like it or not. And if it's a question of helping out the couple, and even the officiant and the guests, I think there are situations that call for nuance in our approach.

We have had, sometime a few years ago, a situation that simply had to be done otherwise the marriage would not have been legal. It wasn't me, but the bridesmaid actually. The Catholic priest was well past the retirement due date and got the couples names totally wrong..the bridesmaids loudly corrected him...he then did a vows and pronounced them husband and wife and started to shuffle off...the bridesmaid again needed to tell him he hadn't done the ring ceremony. ....Sometimes someone has to speak up otherwise the whole thing becomes a farce!!

Now, not too sure about other countries, but here the vows do need to be spoken loud enough so the guests (at least some) can hear them and they do need to be correctly said ... I have had a couple that were just a whisper and also some where the nervous groom has said his vows wrong BUT I have never corrected or interjected of course!!

I think it would have to be a pretty drastic situation before I stepped in...I would rather hoped one of the bridal party had done it....As far as convenience for us videographers we just have to make the best of a bad situation....going to the rehearsal also helps!!!

Chris

Go to the usher, tell him to tell the groom to take the mic out of his pocket. The usher will relay the message to the best man, and the best man, standing next to the groom, can whisper in the groom's ear to fix his mic.

At a wedding of mine last year, the officiant at outdoor ceremony completely forgot to have the crowd sit down. As a result, my second camera had no view of the action (nor did many o the people. It also cut off any cool site lines for me and my regular camera and I had to stay parked at a single vantage point. I chose NOT to interrupt and did not tell the officiant. Later on, I asked the bride. She told me she would have preferred I tell the officiant. (Not just for the video sake, but for her onlookers on the day.)

I also would not have interrupted the wedding. The wedding director / coordinator should have intervened.

Last summer we did a wedding in a fairly small room so there was no amplification for the two sisters of the bride who were each going to read something. We provided them with a wireless handheld microphone and told them it was for the video and for the first one speaking to hand it to the second.

Everything was going great at first. The first lady held the microphone perfectly and passed it on to her sister who also held the microphone perfectly until about halfway through her speech at which point she looked at the microphone kind of funny (like it just dawned on her she was not hearing her voice amplified) and suddenly put the microphone down by her side like it was not working. We mentioned it to the bride so she would not be surprised when the audio suddenly turned terrible halfway through the speech as we had to really crank it up. Thankfully clearly something beyond our control.

Thanks! I've now gained some extra check points for the rehearsals:

1) Ask when guests will be seated
2) Demonstrate to groom where the mic goes (and don't even mention there's a mute button!).
3) Put a "VIDEO MIC" sign on the wireless handheld mic.

I can't say I'd speak up, but I sure would like to know before setting up my tripods where my clear sight lines will be. A big fear of mine is that a nervous groom will hit mute on his wireless pack and forget to turn it back on. For that reason, my shotgun mic is usually on one of the closer cameras. The handheld issue bugs me as well. I don't mind re-directing them to speak into it. I don't think that I'd interrupt a toast though, haven't encountered that yet.


As for cameras, I turn all the tally lights on for peace of mind. I had a camera malfunction last year. Luckily it was a backup angle hidden behind the alter at a catholic wedding. As tempting as it would have been to go check why the red light went out, I resisted the urge. I knew not to count on that angle.

Not only do you not mention the mute button on the transmitter...put tape over it so it cannot be muted.

Alec Moreno
Wedding Art Films - Southern California - Los Angeles - Orange County - Video (http://www.WeddingArtFilms.com)

Glad I started this debate - it's proving useful to hear your responses - I was filming at a wedding last year and the priest pronounced the couple to be 'Man and Wife' and there was no kiss - suddenly a voice from behind me (loudly) said 'You may now kiss the bride' - it was the photog who wanted his shot!!!!!

Luckily for him the priest didn't seem fazed!

Pete

Here's one for you. And maybe it's a new topic, but "when would you intervene with a guest who was sticking out into the aisle taking pictues?"

I'm sure we've all dealt with the scores of people who have their smart phones dangled out over the aisle as the bride comes through. But just this past weekend, it was actually an uncle with his iPad (at all moments of the day) but particularly obtrusively so when his iPad was very noticeably protruding out into the aisle. I held my tongue and filmed around him (as best as I could) but almost said something. Again, in this scenario, he was very close to me. Would the mother have seen my intervention? Maybe. Maybe even the groom. Again, did not do it (but certainly wanted to!).

Tim,
to me that's a very different scenerio than going to the officiant. Over the years I've had a fair number of people do that, be it a camera or a phone or an ipad. I try to shoot around them but in most cases wasn't able to so I go to them and gently remind them that they are in my way and could they please move slightly left or right. I tell them which way to go. I've had a few instances where they either forgot or didn't care. One gentleman even said to me, "I don't care if I'm in your way." OK since I wrote the book on being obnoxious when need be, I simple moved my tripod foward right in front of him, slightly to the side he was on and stayed there for the rest of the ceremony. I think he got the message (either that or someone said something to him) because he stayed out of my way the rest of the day.
I've also had a couple of ignorant people that I've had to move physically. A gentle hand on the shoulder and a whispered "you need to move slightly" and a very gentle push in the direction I want them to go usually does the trick. Now please don't mistake what I'm saying. I'm not a brute, I'm not an a**hole, I'm not one of those guys that doesn't want anyone around me for 50 feet when I'm doing a wedding...BUT, I have a job to do and it's hard enough to do without every Tom, Dick and Harry getting in my way, so I ask once nicely, the 2nd time I'll help move them along and the 3rd time (if there is one) I might get a bit rude. That's only happened once or twice. For the most part people just don't realize they're in the way. Sometimes you just can't do anything and sometimes you have to. I'm not afraid of asking someone in a very low quiet voice to please move to the side. I can be very very nice when I need to be and am for the most part but don't keep pushing to see how far you can go with me. I can also be an outright SOB when I have to.
Oh yeah never touch my camera or me when I'm working. That's a sure way to incur my wrath! ;-)

It's fun to see how we all fear the man behind the altar :) Almost like a king that's conducting his speech with his fly unzipped, would you as a cameraman tell him or not if no-one else would notice :D

If I would see that happening I would not interrupt as long as the priest would speak but when they would be playing a song I would go over to the groom to fix it. Ofcourse if I see it happening when the couple is doing their vows I would not interfere and just come up real close with my own camera to capture his/her voice.

I can also be an outright SOB when I have to.


Ha! Love it, Don. You sure need to be when it comes to those dangling iPads!

Ha, no it's not really that. I think I've about run my course in the business. I've been doing weddings in one form or another (stills or video) since 1971 and honestly the older I get the less patience I have. I still enjoy doing them except for the long hours, short breaks, hurting body, idiot guests (a few, not all)....I could go on but why? Ha, maybe this coming year IS the year I'll finally get out. Don't let me be a role model for how to act in this business. My personality works for me, probably not for anyone else. (gotta keep smilin')

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It's fun to see how we all fear the man behind the altar :)

Much of what a priest says is prayer. In Christian, Hindu, Muslim and Jewish tradition, prayer is conversation with God. During the Catholic liturgy the priest acts in the person of Christ and the dialogue is factually between Jesus and God. What prevents the interruption of the man behind the altar is respect to all parties involved in that conversation. It is very important to understand what is going on when covering any event.

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/wedding-event-video-members-only/509789-stalemate-2.html#post1747283

Imagine interrupting a game at the Olympics because microphone #2 went offline. This would indicate a lack of understanding that some sort of sporting competition was in progress. Interrupting a priest during a prayer would show a different lack of understanding.

Interrupting a priest during a prayer would show a different lack of understanding.

I never do that and didn"t say I did.
What prevents the interruption of the man behind the altar is respect to all parties involved in that conversation

"rent a priest" is becoming very popular here, they are often "priests" that are not allowed to do ceremonies in Church but they have formed an own organisation to celebrate the marriage with focus on the couple and their values in life and much less focus on a non existing God. These people are much easier to deal with and they respect everyone in that room, whether it's the guests, the video-guy or the photog. it's also the only ceremonies where the couple are facing their friends and not like in a church showing their backs to everyone because they have to face the priest, to me that's lack of respect but that's a whole other story I don't want to go into. :)

Not only do you not mention the mute button on the transmitter...put tape over it so it cannot be muted.

well, it's taped now, since one of my last year weddings, when groom was playing too mch with the wireless,
but i didn't stop ceremony :)

Hi Don

Yeah right!! This coming year is going to be your last year?? I clearly remember you saying that in 2011 that after June 2012 you have a few weddings and then that's the end!!

I think that you, deep down, would really miss doing weddings on a Saturday, plus the wife is so used to you being out on a Saturday, you would probably just get under her feet if you stay at home.

I think it's much like quitting smoking..you have to cut down a bit at a time so even a wedding every other weekend shouldn't be too much ?

Chris

Ha Chris, you know me too well. I did however quit smoking 6 months ago and honestly, I don't miss it, so I'm kinda thinkin' the same about weddings. BUT......

Hi Don

I seriously miss doing weddings over Winter!! Then again I don't do them like you...this season so far I have 25 booked and my usual target is no more than 30 in a season ...Ideally I like one on a weekend..it's too much of a rush to get home at 1am ..charge batteries and be on site the next morning at 11am for the next bridal prep.

It's also a bit of a social occasion too and lot's of pretty girls to look at without the wife interjecting!!

Chris

Hi Don

I seriously miss doing weddings over Winter!! Then again I don't do them like you...this season so far I have 25 booked and my usual target is no more than 30 in a season ...Ideally I like one on a weekend..it's too much of a rush to get home at 1am ..charge batteries and be on site the next morning at 11am for the next bridal prep.

It's also a bit of a social occasion too and lot's of pretty girls to look at without the wife interjecting!!

Chris

Ha Chris, I tell my wife that just cause I'm on a diet doesn't mean I can't look at the menu. ;-)

IF (a big if) I do wedding next year I will cut back to no more than 2 a month-24 MAX! This year I cut back and still wound up with 40. It really is just getting to hard physically for me plus honestly, wifey and I want to spend some time traveling and doing things we weren't able to do when we were younger. Raising kids makes a big dent in the finances so now that they're raising their own and we have visiting privledges, we figure this is as good a time as any. We'll see. I'm so conflicted. ;-O

I also wouldn't interrupt the ceremony because of this. Keep this clip as blooper reel to show the B&G so they can't blame you for bad sound.

I have a similar situation.
Lav Mic Failed in Action - YouTube

I never do that and didn"t say I did.

The last sentence of my post was rhetorical and not directed at you. Sorry if it appeared otherwise. Actually, you were quite clear in your previous post that you would wait until the priest was through.

the couple are facing their friends and not like in a church showing their backs to everyone

You bring up an important point about the difference between a public announcement of marriage and a religious ceremony. Some weddings are more one than the other. This distinction affects the role of the videographer for the entire event and definitely influences when it's okay to interrupt.

Sorry that I misunderstood you :) Belgian churches are often not that bad, you can't interrupt a priest while preaching but you can walk around freely when they are playing a song, so if something goes wrong with the grooms mic you could fix it then. The only exception is for photogs who do walk around all the time and I have had occasions where the priest stopped the ceremony eyeballing the photog untill he got the point and sat down.

Worst are ceremonies in the Netherlands, I have not done that many there but some priest act as if they are God. had to film a 6 years old his communion in a small church, the parents had decorated the church with lots of balloons and put flowers on the altar and I placed my zoom recorder between those flowers.

When the priest came in he immediately ordered to remove the flowers and my recorder from his altar, "this has nothing to do with your son's communion and it's distracting, please remove it" he said, I then got clear instructions not to pass the altar but the problem was I could not get a clear view of the kid I was hired to film during that ceremony. I saw the mother looking at me but she didn't dare to say anything. When the ceremony started I stayed in my designated place but very slowly moved passed that invisible line the priest drew, just far enough so I could film the kid and I got away with it.

Now if the priest would have send me back when he saw me moving I would have packed my camera and just left the ceremony, it's no use standing behind the alter not being able to see the boy I was hired to film. Here I would then expect the parents to demand that I would be allowed to stand still on the side with a clear view of the ceremony but this is yet another example how people fear the man behind the altar, no wonder so few do go to church anymore.

Well I had the something of the opposite happen yesterday. During the ceremony the vicar asked "Who gives this man to be married to this woman". The bride said to him it should be the other way around. The vicar turned to me and said will you be able to strike that from the video and we'll do it again. I said yes but of course I won't, at least not on the bride's version, she was laughing so much.

So vicars are human after all and not infallible.

After that we were on first name terms, when they went to sign the register he turned to me and said "George we're now going to the side chapel if you'd like to go ahead you'll get them arriving there"