I had a chance to "play" with the new Panasonic AG-AC90 Camera at DV Expo. Jan was nice enough to sit down and talk about the camera.

Panasonic AG-AC-90, First Look at DVExpo West 2012 on Vimeo

Things worth pointing out are:

(1) The image stabilization system is amazing, walking with the camera or holding it on a subject are very smooth. At maximum telephoto I was a bit too shaky for it, but at a lessor zoom, it can deal with my shake.

(2) The wide end of the zoom is much wider than the Panasonic HMC40, the AC90 is equal to a 29.5mm lens on a 35mm camera.

(3) The LCD is 3.5" (8.89cm) and has 1,150,000 dots.

(4) XLR with phantom power on/off is built into the camera.

(5) It has 2 slots for recording; you can (a) Only record in one. (b) Record the exact same thing to both slots. AND (c) When one slot is full, have it switch to the other. There will be a short 1/2 second drop out during the switch over.

(6) It uses the exact same battery as the 170 camera.

(7) Has an SD (480/60i USA, 480/50i Europe/Asia...) recording mode.


On the flip side there are some other things that may or may not matter to you:

(1) No 720p recording mode; you can record in 1080 mode and down-convert to 720p. I find it interesting that it has a 1080/60p USA, 1080/50p Europe/Asia... recording mode.

(2) No Waveform monitor; the camera does have a histogram. You can set up an IRE spot measurement like you can do on the HMC40.

(3) The lens hood is fixed into place. The space is very wide, so you should be able to fit a "fat" wide angle or telephoto adapter in there.


The camera comes out in the USA in October and I believe the price is around $2,200 (USD).



Bob Diaz

Here are several videos I posted in VIMEO taken at the show. The camera was set to iA (Intelligent Auto). The files are direct from the camera, so if you are a member of VIMEO, you can download the source file.

Hand held shot:
Panasonic AG-AC-90, Hand Held Sample Video Taken at DV Expo with this camera on Vimeo

Walking with the camera:
Panasonic AG-AC-90, Walking with the camera taken at DV Expo on Vimeo

Rapid Auto-focus test:
Panasonic AG-AC-90, Rapid Autofocus test taken at DV Expo on Vimeo

AC90 & HMC40 Side by side:
Panasonic AG-AC-90 & HMC40 side by side, taken at DV Expo on Vimeo

In the last video I hand held the two cameras side by side. The test is not perfect, but it should give you an idea of the difference in the image between the two cameras.


Bob Diaz

One last video to share, here's a walk about the show floor at DV Expo.

DV Expo West 2012, walking around. - YouTube


It's not my best work, but should give you an idea what the booth part of the show was like.

Shot with a Panasonic HMC40 with a 0.5x Century Wide Angle Adapter on a mono-pod.



Bob Diaz

Thanks Bob

I was wondering when you would get your videos over on the DVInfo side...I have already commented extensively else where so it is sufficient to say that for run 'n gun stuff like weddings this is the answer in both size and price...it has all the features that the AC-130 has without all the nasty issues that forced me to sell my 130's .... It's pretty hard to fault at this stage so I'm looking forward to having one in my hot sweaty hands when the PAL versions arrive on this side of the planet (ours will be AC-92's) .... !

The update and all your hard work is much appreciated

Chris

Thanks Chris,

Things have been VERY busy at work, so I've had to delay posting this until I got some free time.

I'd expect the AC92 to support, 1080/50p, 1080/50i, 1080/25p, & 480/50i.

The AC90 supports, 1080/60p, 1080/60i, 1080/30p, 1080/24p, 480/60i.



Bob Diaz

Hi Bob

1080 50P will be very welcome!! Because we lose 5 frames on PAL ..25P is a wee bit slow and fast pans can end up a little blurry sometimes...I still have 720 50P but 1080 will be really neat.

When they arrive I will grab one initially and hopefully if I'm happy (see no reason why not with the awesome tests you have done) I'll grab a second one and either sell or retire my HMC82's ...Last year I got the two 130's and immediately sold my previous HMC82's and had to end up losing bucks on selling the 130's and buying another pair of HMC82's ...that was a bit of a pain!!

I'm getting to the stage where old age (well 66!) is taking a toll on my arms with 8 or 9lbs of camera almost every day so a lighter cam will surely be welcome.

Hope things quieten done just a little for you!!

Chris

Did I see right that there are no ND filters build in?

Hi Noa

There are no switchable external ND filters ..the same as the HMC40 and 80 ..it has an auto ND built into the camera that comes in when it needs to..so in auto your exposure is controlled with iris, shutter and ND. Despite the marginally smaller chips than the HMC40 the lens is faster and the chips are backlit.

Bob reports that the image is clean even at 18db gain which is awesome so low light will actually be better even though the gain is high..even 24db is still usable whereas on my hmc82's I can only just scrape by at 18db and already video noise is present....the chips resolve a very respectable 2.1 million pixels .... compare that to the old 1/4" CCD's that struggled to get to 460K!!!

Chris

Berry Green should be credited for the +18dB looks good comment.

/// His Statement ///
At 0dB of gain, the AC90 is absurdly sharp. It's really quite fantastic. I think it's sharper than the HPX250/AC160 series, and that's saying something. Sharper than an EX3? Maybe. Now, when you start cranking up the gain that advantage gets mushed a little, but at 0dB it's super hyper sharp.
...
In terms of base sensitivity, it isn't any more sensitive than the HMC40. They're about the same in that regard. The sensors are a little smaller in the AC90, which lowers sensitivity, but they're backlit illuminated chips, which enhances sensitivity, so the net effect is that they're about the same in terms of basic sensitivity. Where the AC90 pulls way ahead though is in gain performance. I was testing last night, trying to evaluate the noise profile, and there basically wasn't any noise, I had to go to 30dB of gain to get any appreciable amount of noise! Even at +18, it was really clean. Cleaner than I remember the HMC40 being at 12dB. As I recall, the limit of where I was really comfortable with the HMC40 was about 9dB, and 12db in an emergency, but I set the gain limit at 12db, and never let it go higher. With the AC90, I'm happy to let it go to 18db, and I'll say this, I wish I had them side by side because I think the AC90 is probably cleaner at 24dB than the HMC40 is at 12dB. And if that's the case, it means a real-world two stop advantage vs. the HMC40.

I love the HMC40, it's a great little camera, but the intervening three years has indeed brought some technical benefits, and the AC90 is sharper, cleaner, with an absolutely gorgeous 4:2:2 output (recording the Wringer on the NanoFlash from the AC90 gave the best results I've seen yet from any camera I've tested!) It does get softer/mushier/noisier at 30dB, but ... that's 30dB! You should expect it to be soft and flat and mushy at 30dB. I think 24dB is usable, and I think 18dB is just fine, and I'm shocked to say that, because man, back in DVX days, 18dB was an unholy hailstorm of noise and grain and ugliness, but the AC90 just laps it up like it was nothing.
/// End Of Quote///


When shooting at 1080/60p, the recording rate increases to 28Mb/second, just a bit higher than the regular 24Mb/Second of the regular modes.


It's too bad that Barry Green lives across the country from me, IF he were in Southern California, I've be begging him to let me come over with my HMC40 to do a side by side test.


Bob Diaz

Bob, what I'm seeing so far has pretty much made up my mind about changing my cam to something I feel will give me more flexibility doing my video work. I'll probably sell my HMC-80 and purchase the new AC90 so I can mount it up to some sort of steadycam rig a little easier than the shoulder mount.
I still love my HMC-80 and continue to be impressed by it's picture quality on all types of projects. A couple of years have passed and new technology is allowing smaller sensors to perform well on lower priced cameras which is more in my price point.

Thanks for the input!

Hi Bob

My apologies to Barry..checking back, yes, it was Barry but I'm sure you feel the same about better IQ at higher gain.

One the PAL units come out here I'll grab one and do a side by side comparison with the HMC82's ..still love my shoulder mount cameras though so yes, a rig and loupe would be somewhat essential...I still have both my Hoodman loupes that I used on the 130's (the buyer never wanted them)

Any actual dimensions been released as yet??? All I know so far is that the camera is "around the size of a DVX100" ...I won't quote a name as I'm not sure who said it.

Chris

Thanks Steve.

NOTE: To Jan Chrittenden Livingston, Panasonic USA, I hope you saw Steve's message. Now doesn't that make you want to send an evaluation unit to Bob during the month of January so he can do a side by side test? (El Camino College is closed for Winter Break in January, so I'd have lots of time to do a great test.)

;-))

-------------------

Chris,

Sorry, but I didn't hear or see any dimensions. I do know it's a bit bigger and fatter than the HMC40. I think I heard it weighs around 3 pounds (about 1.4kg), but I'm not 100% sure on the weight.

I'm kicking myself, because after leaving the show there were all sorts of things I thought of to check. Pity I had a class that night, otherwise I'd have gone back. (Work always gets in the way of fun.)



Bob Diaz

the ac90 can be ordered in a Belgian store here for the price of a Canon xa10, that's cheap! It's even 500 euro cheaper then the Sony nx30 which makes it a "no brainer", compared to both the small handicam type Canon and Sony camera's you are getting much more in return for your money in terms of controll. I might have to let go my xh-a1...

Hi Noa

Darn, that's quick! My supplier hasn't even listed the 25/50 PAL models yet. When I'm not sure but they haven't even got it under Preliminary Products.

In Europe is the camera called an AC-91 or AC-92 ????

Then again I would still be very wary of letting my two HMC82's go at this stage..they do everything I ask of them and produce outstanding footage.... I love the shoulder mount too...When I bought my two AC-130's I spent hours (weeks actually) converting them to shoulder mount and they still had flaws and were not nearly as ergomonic as my HMC's ...If I get an AC-90 I'll still keep both HMC cameras and use the AC-90 for Realty shoots (lots of handheld work) and at weddings on my stedicam....After my disasterous 3 months with the AC-130's I will test the 90 out VERY VERY well and check for any issues from other users first before considering them as replacements!!

You might be wise to hold onto the Canon for a while while you are absolutely sure the 90 can replace it!!


Chris

No, here it's called AG-AC90, it's not in stock yet so only pre-order.

I only read some comments about the camera from people that have used a preproduction model but I also found a video today with some sample images where the gh2 was compared with the ac90. The dynamic range was not that good but probably to be expected from such a small sensor camera, one image in particular with shadow and sun it appeared the camera was not that good dealing with highlights which more panasonic camera's seem to suffer from. It has somehow tempered my enthousiasm a little bit but I will be looking out for early adopter video's anyway.

I have mine a few days now....lots to learn. Different than my AG AC-130 due to the touch screen menus.



Check out a very fast test....look at the lowlight capability....no electronic grain.


Panasonic AG AC-90 Test - YouTube

How does it compare to your ac130 Lou? Does it have less noise at higher gains and can it produce a cleaner image in very lowlight?
The youtube compression doesn't show it that good but how is the highlight handling, I saw that in the snow recording the highlights in the snow seemed blown out.

Hi Noa

The big difference with this camera is the backlit sensors and a very efficient noise reduction!! The image is actually remarkably sharp at 24 db gain (which on my HMC's would be full of noise) and according to Barry Green who is writing the AC-90 book and has done tests (obviously) on the camera the image at 30db is quite usuable ..it's still noise free which is amazing but the image does go a little soft at that gain.

I don't think I could even use footage that I shot on my HMC's at 30db gain (I start getting unacceptable noise from 18db upwards) so the low light is going to be a big selling point.

When the PAL models come out I will definately grab one and use it for my Realty shoots as it's less tiring than the shoulder mount cameras and then I can also try it at a dull and dingy wedding reception. As you already know receptions are the pits for low light so I think the 90 with an LED light just to brighten the highlights will be pretty magic. So far all that have one have had no negative comments at all which is brilliant.

It would be interesting to see how it performs against your little Sony (there has been rumours that they use sensors from Sony but that's only a rumour!!)

Chris

The 130 appears to be sharper in higher gain but the AC-90 has No visible grain in the lowlight conditions albeit somewhat softer. The 130 is not menu driven like the 90. Personally, I will probably use the 90 more due to the size and form factor. However, I think the 130 is a more pro camera. Both cameras compliment each other. It is really a tough call.

The snow blew out as I had it on auto while trudging through the snow. I am a manual shooter and use my zebras. I also think this camera may need an external ND filter by virtue of the small chips vs. contrast.

Btw: No time stamp for legal use. No way to save scene files to a SD card. No way to write the name of the scene files either. Basically. This camera is the little brother.

Panasonic AG AC-90 Field Test - YouTube

Hi Lou

Brilliant fall footage there!! I do notice that the background trees in the wide shots seem to look "smudgy" and the big expanses of lawn also look the same...I'm assuming that on original footage they are sharp as a tack and the effect is simply YouTube compression???

The stabilizer certainly works well doesn't it?? I could almost ditch my stedicam and just handhold the camera for walking movement shots..on a rig it would probably be even smoother as the OIS wouldn't need to work so hard!!

Nice test!!

Chris

LOL! I knew someone would pick the smudge. My fault. That was my fingerprint on the ND filter. I saw that during editing. With that said. I think half of visual issues is associated with YOU TUBE compression.

I also deinterlaced the 60i. I will try to post true progressive in the future @60P.

lol I thought it was my 10 year old laptop.

Hi Lou

Were your scene files set at default or did you tweak them first? I found using the 130 on F1 (at default) with everything set to zero as the camera is shipped the image is really awful!!!

The thing that still concerns me greatly is recording live music that's LOUD!! With the AC-130 set on ALC the level is simply kept high and the audio board just clips the top of the waveform ..All the HMC cams actually reduce the signal without clipping set on auto level. On ALC the 130 audio really sucks big time and at weddings trying to keep a manual level with constantly varying ambient and music levels is almost impossible. If the 90 uses the same audio ALC as the 130 then it's a no go in my books as I don't want clipped audio during the dancing!!

Chris

I used STYLIN. A custom setting located on the Panny website or the 130.

The first scene file or the default setting is muted to allow correction in post.

Hi,

Can anyone tell me when you set the AC90 to Standard Def, what type of file is created? Mpeg2? etc.

Thanks
Rob

Hi Rob

I looked on my suppliers site and it just lists the format as 9mbps AVCHD ..surely that's not correct??
My HMC82's do SD and the files on the card are AVI and they are huge ..a lot bigger than the AVCHD files

I think Sony tend to use MPEG for their cameras that shoot HD/SD but so far Panasonics all should be AVI files ..then again the AC-90 might be different!

Chris

Robert, I thought it was mpeg but I just looked it up in the manual and the way it reads it's AVCHD.

Tim

Thanks Tim. I thought that might be the case. Im basically looking for a camera in the $2000 range that can record Standard def wide screen to an mpeg2 file. And has two SD slots. I currently use a Sony nx5u and need a backup for it. All the Sony cameras in the $2000 and under record in mpeg2 but have only 1 sd slot

Thanks
Rob

Hi Guys

After speaking to Chris (on another forum thread), I am really liking the look of this camera. Am I to assume that my Rode videomic pro cannot be used with this camera (or can i use a converting connector to xlr)?

Also, will I need to purchase any accessories i.e. the suppliers website has 32gb SDHC cards at £135 which seems a little expensive to me?

I need a quick purchase and turnaround as I may have to use this in 2 weeks time for interviews (indoor)

Thanks

PS forgot to say, I have a zoom H4N so maybe I could use that on the camera to record audio and sync it with internal audio in post edit?

Phil,

Sandisk SDHCs are on Amazon UK for £23 or so for 32GB. You can save your pennies.

You can use your Rode mic with an XLR converter. It won't be a balanced mic (so it may be prone to interference in some circumstances), but it'll work. I can't see camera mounting your Zoom giving any advantage over using the camera's internal stereo mic.

You'd be better putting the zoom somewhere near your interviewees and using it as a second audio source, evven better if you put a lav mic on it for their voice.

It's a good, basic camera that will probably do everything you need for interviews.

the suppliers website has 32gb SDHC cards at £135 which seems a little expensive to me?

30mbs class 10 sdhc cards are fast enough for your camera, I bhought a sandisc 64gb sdxc card (30mbs for under 100 euro) for my sony nex ea50 and it has worked fine so far. The cards you mention are probably 95mbs which is overkill.

Noa/Mic, thanks..

yes you're right they are 95 mbs. I will look for some 30mbs class 10 sdhc cards or the 64gb sdxc card

Should I look at an alternative shotgun mic? For interviews i have a rode lavalier altho I was looking at the Sennheiser EW 112-P G3-Gb to keep me wire free.

Should I invest in a camera mounted LED light for this camcorder or maybe a lighting kit for my interviews?

P

Phil, do you need wireless?

Maybe this is a question (or a search) for the Audio forum instead. I would maybe try the Rode lav mic (and maybe an extension cable) wired in to the AC90 for simplicity, or plugged into the Zoom if you don't mind synching in post and not being able to monitor audio (eek!).

An on-camera shotgun is no good at all for interviews. If you're just doing interviews, I would save my pennies and use your existing lav. Only go wireless if you have longer distances to cover or if it is a real problem.

Thanks Mike

You're right, am unsure. I have just posted a thread on the audio forum as you have suggested.

The last time I did an indoor interview I went directly into the zoom and sync'd the audio in post edit, hopefully the other thread will help with this.

Is it wise to get any filters or additonal batteries for this camera Mike?

Phil,

You may need an ND filter for the AC90 if you are shooting outdoors in bright sunlight. If you are shooting anywhere where you might get dust, grit or water on the lens, you may want to consider a clear UV filter as well.

Some people swear by the clear filters, some swear at them... I always use one on my cameras, with the logic that I'd rather replace a £60 filter than get the built-in lens repaired. The risk is slight degrading of picture quality and possible flaring under certain lighting conditions. Get a quality filter, such as B+W, if you go down this route.

Batteries: yes. The supplied battery will probably not run for very long (an hour or two) so plan on at least one high capacity battery to go along with it, that will probably last all day. You can test it yourself and see how long it runs for before deciding whether to buy more or not.

Mains power can be problematic in some cameras, as it can induce hum or interference in the audio, so it's best not to rely on it.

Thanks Mike, invaluable advice there.

Think I am going to go with the camera, 4 or 8hr battery, 2 x 32gb (or 1 x 64) card, Filter kit and case.

Hopefully will let you know how i get on :-)

Hi Phil

I just rewired my Rodes for XLR ...if you are handy with a soldering iron it's just a matter of some new cable (the twisty cable is a pain anyway) and a male XLR plug..the mic is simple to pull apart and all you do is unsolder the existing 3 connections and solder in the new cable. You need a cable with two conductors and a screen ...Also easy to put the Videomic back together again...If soldering makes you nervous find a friend who can do it.

You can get mini jack to XLR adapters too but I would only use those until you have a proper cable from the mic to the XLR plug ..it will work fine as a temporary solution

Chris

Hi Chris

I am completely useless at soldering but what a great idea :-)

Im trying to find examples of where the ac90 has been used in an interview type scenario, dont suppose you know of any?

Hi Phil

Do a YouTube search for "Panasonic AC-90" and you will find quite a few clips that might give you a better idea of what to expect.

Chris

Thanks Chris

Had a look, not too many reviews out there just yet.. looked at some pro's and cons etc.. All in all, whilst I would love the ac160, I think I could certainly capture everything I need for a while (hoping capturing live bands and the odd wedding will help pay for the ac160)

ordered my ac-90 on saturday morning, quoted 2 week delivery, phoned up today and they are saying end of feb/begin of march..

can't be right that surely?

is this really an Ac90 as the film shots are very impressive??

Video Promocional AG-AC90 - YouTube

I would guess so... seeing as it's an official Panasonic video. I'm not sure if they've colour graded that or not, but it is a very capable camera when handled properly.

I"m sure it's the ac90 but they where smart when to film with it, as you notice most of the video is shot with a overcast sky so the camera doesn't have to deal with extreme highlights and or shadows.

ahh i never noticed that to be fair, this video seems to look well in bright sunlight

Test of Panasonic AG-AC90 in the Dominican Republic on Vimeo

Any small sensor camera will have a hard time dealing with harsh highlights, I think for the price and controls the camera has and it's performance it's about the best you can get at this moment. Like Barry stated it had one of the sharpest image he had ever seen, you only need to be sure you are the right f-stop for the best performance.

Absolutely.. at £1300 UK, it's unbeatable. The competition at that price is the Sony NX30E and the Canon XA10... the Panasonic gives a lot of bang for the buck.

Interesting video tips for the ac90

AG-AC90 AVCCAM Camcorder -- Tips to maximize your use - YouTube

I'm looking all over for the Barry Green's review of the AC90. I've seen this reference; "Barry Green Panasonic AC90 DV Expo" and also what I posted below, grabbed off of another site. Can anyone help?

Thanks,

Steve

"It's intended to sound impressive while ignoring that fact that they're (HD Magazine) dead wrong about the results they got -- if they truly understood what they were saying, they would have made a much more responsible statement in their review. To just say the AC90 has "poor resolution" is so wrong that it's absurd. The proper statement should have read something like:
The AC90 is impressively sharp. Incredibly sharp, and in fact sharper than many other cameras we have tested that have much higher price tags. However, those results only come with apertures that are relatively wide open. All sensors are subject to their imaging softening up due to diffraction, but because of the small sensors and how many pixels are crammed onto those sensors, the AC90's diffraction limit happens quite early in the iris range. Any iris deeper than f/2.8 can show softening of the image due to diffraction; the red channel starts to be impacted by about f/2.8. Panasonic has worked around this by creating an integrated ND filter that keeps the iris in the "sweet spot" much longer than you would otherwise expect; because of the way the ND filter works, the physical iris actually stays in the sweet spot up until the iris gauge reads f/6.4. So we can report that you will have crystal clear images and razor sharp resolution at any iris between wide open (f/1.5) and f/6.4. And even then, diffraction will be of minimal impact to the image up to about f/8.0. We don't recommend using irises deeper than f/8.0, but you should get sharp images at f/8, and crystal-clear razor sharp images anywhere from f/6.4 up to f/1.5."

That would have been a responsible, informative, and useful description. Saying it has "poor resolution" is just irresponsible and factually inaccurate." Barry Green - DVXuser.com