Just returned from a Carribbean cruise up the Amazon River and I was surprised how many of the 270 passengers shot video and stills with their iPads.

I shot video with a Canon HV40, another guy shot with a Sony, unknown model, and a German guy used a JVC,
he was happy it uploaded direct to Quicktime. A few used Canons and Nikons for stills.

But about 30-40 other passengers employed iPads to shoot their stuff. I asked a few how they stored and showed it, the general answer was ..
'nothing, I just show it on my iPad, I don't even print the still shots, the display is good enough and I can send them to friends.'

They also handled their email and social media while relaxing around the Silver Cloud. A lot has to do with the size and weight of general luggage
requirements and allowances. The ship has 24hr IT help in your suite, and its internet room with 8 computers was mainly deserted. Signs of the times.

Cheers.

It sure is a sign of the times. P&S market is taking a huge hit because of cell phones with their cameras. There's numerous times when I would just take a pic with my phone. I wonder which direction the P&S industry & consumer video cameras will go next.

I connected with a college buddy over the weekend, we were comparing notes on our respective re-discoveries of the joys of still photography.

Me: "Have you been using Aperature or Lightroom for your pix?"
Him: "No, those are like photoshop, right?"
Me: "Kinda'... they do light image work, the most common editing tools are easy with them, but they also have integrated file management... collections, flags, sorting, print these, upload these to flickr, that kind of stuff. Way more of that than photoshop."
Him: "OHHHH... I'll have to check that out."

I'm thinking that's what your shipmates are getting out of their iPads that they don't with a still or video cam, built-in file management, AND the display device, like you said, an instant photo album.

I was quite amazed the past year how many emails I have received from my wedding clients that had a note in it saying "send from my ipad", I do however find it looks silly when someone holds a 10 inch tablet in front of them to take a photo or film something, good that it can't be used as a phone.

Very interesting. My grandkids don’t even do email; it’s all iPods and such devices, texting, Facebook, Twitter and so on while printing photographs does not even come into the picture. My granddaughter is taking photography at high school and I bought her a NEX 5n along with a couple of lenses but most of her photographs are taken with her iPod. Haven’t visited with her in a while but come Christmas that will happen and I’m interested to learn what she is learning in her photography class.

I believe pixel peeping is quickly going the way of the dinosaur and fuss-potting over DoF restricted to a few gear-sponsored cranks who are in it for the money. And if you raise the subject of the cinematic look and 24p blank stares and eye rolling will be the most frequent response outside of a few people locked into the rapidly disappearing past.

My EX1 sits looking somewhat forlorn, its lens cover closed and gathering dust, in the closet while my CX700v never leaves the glove box in my car (just in case). I should have already upgraded to the FS700 and/or the CX760v while my fantasy about the Blackmagic Cinecamera is rapidly loosing traction.

As you might have guessed I am not a professional; that is making a living (or not) out of this business but rather a retired enthusiast with tons of time on my hands. Right now I’m hanging out near Akaroa where the cruise ship season is getting into full swing and yes, not too many real cameras either video or stills to be seen but tons of cell phones and tablets.

Image capture among the masses is certainly changing and camera enthusiasts (gear-heads) are a dying breed. This is not to say such stalwarts as frequent this delightful place will cease to exist but Mr Hurd might want to think outside the box about what this community might look like 10, or even 5, years down the road. Well, there will always be the gainfully employed professional. Maybe!

OK, gorgeous day today and lots of people-shooting opportunities as the Sun Princess pulled into the harbour early this morning and the village will be swarming with life. Where’s my Samsung Galaxy 4?

Evolution of technology is nothing new, and often follows the same trend. A "new thing" comes along and a large section categorically states that it will never catch on. An equally large number of people predict that it means the end of what went before, period.

Good example was the first introduction of the telephone. The first camp tended to say "what's the point of getting one? Noone else has one, and what's wrong with telegrams anyway?" Second camp predicted letter writing would be dead within a couple of years.

Obviously, we now know that neither side got it right - what happened was that the telephone did catch on, but coexisted with letter writing for a very long time (and still does). Certainly in the early years, the telephone opened up new opportunities, it wasn't just a replacement for a letter.

And it's a similar story here. Yes, the use of camera phones, even iPads (clumsy cameras though they make) is seeing increasing use, but largely it's taking images that previously wouldn't have been taken. It's satisfying a demand for a transient sharing of pictures that previously didn't (couldn't) exist.

But will it replace (as opposed to supplement) "true" cameras, or "true" photography? I don't think so, and partly down to attitude, partly to technology. I've personally heard of several cases where somebody relied on his device as his "album" - and was surprised when a fault, accident or theft lost all their memories. Trouble is that the more photographs you take, the more difficult management becomes. Most people just leave them on the device that captured them. Coupled with changing technology it's widely prophecised that future generations will actually be left vastly LESS imagery from our era than from the days of film. Vastly more photographs taken, vastly fewer surviving very long.

So whilst I'm sure that camera phones etc will be increasingly widely used, I still see a place for the committed photographer. And yes, even for dedicated cameras for quite a long time to come. What is still missing from such as iPad cameras isn't absolute image quality, but far more versatility. A good camera doesn't make a good photographer - but it can certainly help!!

I"m not even close to as talented as most of the folks here, but I guarantee I come home with video 10x better than those folks who use their iphone or ipad on vacation. I, too, think it's ridiculous to see folks using ipads to video.

The difference, however, is that I want my videos to look better. Those folks are quite happy to just capture the moment and share it. Quality is not as important as convenience to them. If that's all they want, then that's okay.

largely it's taking images that previously wouldn't have been taken. It's satisfying a demand for a transient sharing of pictures that previously didn't (couldn't) exist.

David, you expressed what I couldn't put my finger on. Many people are simply happy to capture the moment and share it. Nothing more. They understand that the capture doesn't have to be perfect. Now, instead of describing in a phone call to your friends what went on last night at the office party, they will have already seen the video you posted on Facebook while the party was still going on!

Personally, I think it is making face-to-face contact (or even verbal contact) less and less important to a whole generation. That concerns me because I have no idea what that means for society in the future.

I wonder if you're right about how there will be less photos and videos in the future. I tend to doubt that simply because there are billions more than 50 years ago and digital storage is so cheap and convenient. Databases in Facebook, flickr, etc., will not disappear. They'll probably be transferred to storage media that we don't can't envision yet. I'll bet online management methods -- tags -- will make accessing media feasible for a long, long time.

My EX1 sits looking somewhat forlorn, its lens cover closed and gathering dust, in the closet while my CX700v never leaves the glove box in my car (just in case).


I bought a Sony HX30V for myself to take on my ski trips as being easier than taking my CX700. I normally use a NX5U with the little Sony's to shoot shows and for long format the video camera is going to be around for a while I think. However for a short 15min performance recently my wife used the HX30V and I used the CX700. The HX30V gave us both a shock as the picture was so good compared to the CX700. I am used to the CX700 making my NX5U look a little old at times !!!! The NX30V has the wireless upload etc like the tablets or phones but a much better lens and picture. I have not got used to them but my ASUS Transform takes nice photos and video as does my Sony Xperia T cell phone. I just haven't got used to using them in that way !!! Will wait and see what CES hold in a month !!!

Ron Evans

iPods, iPads etc are nice toys but I doubt they will seriously every cause the end of camcorders or still cameras ever. They complete lack any ergonomics, manual controls and are prone to break down after 4 years. Obsulescence. I mean the digital camera never destroyed the Kodak instant camera - you can still get them!

iPhone vs Hasselblad (and Nikon).
large print comparison on the street: 'It might be the same camera'

Weapons of Mass Production - iPhone 5 Review, Camera Comparison: Nikon DSLR and Hasselblad - WOMP - YouTube

IMHO, there's multiple forces at work simultaneously and trends don't always go forever or in a linear fashion... other forces come into play.

To break it down, there's acquisition and distribution. Since cameras were affordable to and operable by regular folks, consumers bought cameras, took photos and distributed them based on the technology. However, the the acquisition quality of consumer cameras was historically observably worse than those who had gear that could (with proper skill) achieve higher acquisition quality. This the pro photographer/hobbiest had value.

When better quality cameras became affordable and automatics made regular folks able to acquire better photos without skill, better gear was used by regular folks. Professionals benefited by the greater demand and technology drifted downward which caused more people to become more skilled. Acquisition quality was observably better and consumers suffered through the distribution headaches of digital because they provided sufficient value. The professional/hobbiest lost value.

All these things ebbed and flowed as print, acquisition, image processing chips etc evolved. I think there's a quality level at which if a camera can acquire at that level, it will satisfy regular folks and they won't suffer the extra space of bigger cameras/lenses, hip holsters, computers etc of "better" gear. So if iPads and phones take a picture that looks good enough on the screen and makes distribution easy, it sets the bar that other form factors have to break or distinguish themselves from. But it required technology to be able to achieve that quality level and easy of distribution. An iPad without affordable wireless data plans is an awful camera compared to a PNS.

Regardless, the effect of consumer demand for professional gear driving down costs simultaneous with technology driving down costs was a nice afterburner boost.... while it lasted.

I suppose it depends on what perspective you look at it from. Maybe there has been a big hit to the camera market by mobile phones. I know I purchased a Nokia N73 purposefully because it incorporated a decent pixel sized camera in it several years ago now and I’ve watched how IPhones, etc. have evolved to be relatively capable over the last decade.

For me though; I would never have gotten into ‘photography’ at all with film. The cost of film and development just made it something that I might have liked to pick up as a hobby, but would never have gotten involved in.

I’m sure there are market experts that know exactly where it is headed, but I might guess that with all the people exposed to digital photography on their IPhones and Ipads it introduces more people to taking photos than might have ever been likely to have been involved before digital. Some might take their interest more seriously and want better results than what their device offers and some will be perfectly happy.

How that breaks down in helping or hurting the dedicated camera market I wouldn’t speculate, but I would guess the overall trend being more people/market exposed to ‘photography’ being a good thing = more innovation, less expensive, etc.

With that said, I took a gander at Flickr to see if anyone uploaded what they shot with the DSLR’s they were lugging around over the weekend shooting the same things I was taking pics of with my ‘point and shoot’ Canon G1X. I thought maybe I would see some really artful photos compared to my talentless snapshots. Wow! Not really and some of the junk they uploaded from their camera phones was pretty sad. LOL Barely recognizable.

Maybe the trend will swing back when they figure out the trash they are getting as memories of their precious babies in comparison to the other mommies and daddies that bought a real camera. LOL

With that said, I took a gander at Flickr to see if anyone uploaded what they shot with the DSLR’s they were lugging around over the weekend shooting the same things I was taking pics of with my ‘point and shoot’ Canon G1X.

Jason do you post in the flickr G1X group?

The end of consumer video cameras.....yeah right.
I remember not that long ago that when we all got computers, it was said to be the end of paper.

Mike

Jason do you post in the flickr G1X group?

I have in the past, but I did not post my pics from this last weekend. I can add them. They aren’t spectacular, but they turned out as well as most any I’ve seen of what I shot. I LUV my G1X though!

To be fair – I have loved the Canon G Series for its compactness and portability and I know if you handle your IPhone well you can capture some decent photos with them, but I wouldn’t trust anything *special* to one of them personally. I’m not going to leave my G1X behind on vacation in favor of the IPhone being easier to carry.

I actually shocked myself with an IPhone pic of my Starbucks with a little Rodarte cup thingy they sell that I Instagramed the other week. It came out with bokeh background and looked pretty cool lol.

Rodarte Starbucks | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/34465297@N00/8263218832/)

iPhone vs Hasselblad (and Nikon).
large print comparison on the street: 'It might be the same camera'
Errr, that's only a part of the conclusion, and really only refers to comparisons when they were trying to give the iPhone best possible chance - good lighting, average angle of view, no difficulty focussing, etc etc.

It's a pretty good video (better than I was expecting, well worth watching) and it makes very clear at the start that what a camera such as a DSLR has over the typical phone camera is versatility. There may not be a vast quality difference with a straightforward subject in good lighting, but in low light and a variety of other situations the iPhone loses hands down. Same with angle of view, response time, focussing on moving objects, lack of flexibility regarding lens angle etc etc. Conversely, where the iPhone has the clear advantage is that the size means you are far more likely to have it with you - better any camera than none on occasions.

To Phil Murray - when I made the reference to current images being unlikely to be around in the future in the same way as photographic prints have lasted, then whilst the technology may be there to preserve, will anybody bother? In film days, the expense meant you really thought before hitting the button - hence less images, but a greater "value" to each one - collections tended to be of more manageable sizes. Now, when thousands can accumulate on such as an iPad drive, the majority tend to be repetitive and often downright poor. (Through technique, not technology.) There may well be some nuggets - but they just get swamped by the dross.

The real change is the difference between what is called passive or active archiving. "Passive archiving" typically means leaving on a shelf and rediscovering decades later. Maybe a bit faded, but still viewable. Active archiving means what it says - you have to manage the archive. Forget about putting a hard drive full of files on a shelf and coming along after 30 years. Don't expect it to be much good for anything other than a paperweight.

Then come a technology change, it's all too often too much trouble to spend hours sorting and saving the ones that are really worth it. That's why I say that if "photography" means something transient to you, then such as camera phones are great. If the word means art, it's a different story. Horses for courses.

I would suggest that's possible to create art on an iPhone, just as you could with a Polaroid camera. Although, perhaps to be art there has to be something about the piece of art which is uniquely about the nature of the iPhone.

However, the dedicated camera will be more versatile tool with a broader range of options.

Ha. yes, i am definitely not arguing that an iPhone is better than a Hasselblad (disclaimer: i have neither!). but for the average person, even a large print (well shot) is indistinguishable between the two. that is a humbling thought for heavily invested professionals...

of course sports photography, or low light shooting etc etc is a nightmare on an iPhone, but this technology will keep getting better. even now, if a Hasselblad and an iPhone were the same price, i think most average consumers would opt for the convenience and versatility of the iPhone...
while i don't think consumer cameras are dying, it is interesting to not only see the evolution of the technology, but of culture along side it. i've lived in technology poor (and everything else poor...) Africa these last 6 years and visit Canada once a year and the speed of evolution is striking. suddenly i'm at a cabin at the lake and eveybody from kids to the elderly have iToys that they don't put down! it is quite strange and face to face communication is a real casualty. evolving from letters to emails to texting and now people have whole conversations with PICTURES on instagram. i kind of get it, the immediacy of sharing experiences with your friends and family (and likely the government agencies storing all this data, but that's another topic...) and it can be somehow artful and witty, but it also seems pretty disposable and often banal...

anyway, the average person is more likely to upload video blurbs and instagrams than actually edit, color correct, photoshop, transcode, etc etc... so i think if the quality is 'good enough' (which it seems to quickly becoming MORE than good enough), consumer cameras will become more and more a specialty item- especially as the iTechnology overcomes the technical inadequacies.

#1 - it's the imaging device you have with you that counts - no device, no chance to "capture the moment".

#2 - quality is always important, but again, if you aren't capturing the content, at ANY quality, well, refer to #1.

#3 - there will ALWAYS be a demand for "high end" toys that do a better job, but when the low end is scuffling with the latest phone or tablet, and the quality difference is minimal to the "average" user, it's very easy to see how "consumer" video cams and P&S's (most of which alsot take passable video now TOO) are a "vestigial tail". Multi-function devices that take "good" stills and video (as well as keep your calendar, messaging, and take your phone calls...) are where the market is at.


Just recently picked up a Sony RX100, first reaction was it is almost TOO small, but after playing with it, looking at the pictures AND 1080 60p video... I quickly realized it's pretty impressive. Still "testing", but more and more impressed. It's quite pricey for a "consumer" model, yet you know the technology will only get cheaper, better, and more available.

As far as "archiving", as long as one backs up on a regular basis, the odds are good the "1's and 0's can be preserved indefinitely. My main reservation is at last count the "media" files were well on the way to a six figure #.... and with 4Tb of storage starting to feel a bit "tiny"... well that's probably an entirely different problem! Have a "consumer" friend who last count had well over 80K of just pics... and is getting into video now, so maybe there needs to be a new mental condition "diagnosed" for this new media age?

the future is no camera at all.
for a while, people will still play with smartphone and instagram.
Then, all these pictures downloaded to the cloud wil be in a database.
and in near future, you will just point your lens to something and receive by mail the best picture available on the net .... for 0.5 cents....
The only pictures you will still take are your family.

........but when the low end is scuffling with the latest phone or tablet, and the quality difference is minimal to the "average" user, it's very easy to see how "consumer" video cams and P&S's ....... are a "vestigial tail".
But as that video Brian David Melnyk linked to demonstrated very clearly, then whilst the quality difference may be "minimal" to the average user in good light etc, it's a very different story in low light, or where fast response etc is needed - when a dedicated camera will show a far from minimal difference.

Or maybe what we may all agree on is the increasing demise of LOW END consumer cameras? Which may well have little advantage over such as camera phones. Whilst higher end cameras - both consumer and professional - will still keep a market share. They may not offer much difference for straightforward photographs in good light - but carry on in conditions far too challenging for the average phone or tablet, and offer features such as zoom lenses etc.

iPad shooters drive me nuts... while I'm shooting civilized from the back of a venue not to disturb, they stand up from their seats to capture video... and cover the subject with their iPads...

I help with audio and video at my church; this past weekend while the kids were preparing for their Christmas program, gal comes to me and asks me for the WIFI password. I said I don't know. OK, I admit... it was not the truth. Turns out, she needed that to stream the program via Skype to her mom overseas.

I caught up with her at the end of the program while collecting the wireless mics from the kids. She says it was OK, she used her cell phone as WIFI hotspot and still did the live streaming, all she missed is the last few minutes - her cell phone battery died.

That's the kind of world we're living in today. Video camera? Who needs that? What for?

a great example of the evolution of technology and creation is one given by Daniel Lanois, an outstanding artist and producer (he produced with Brian Eno a little known band called 'U2'. they have enjoyed moderate success in some obscure regions...).
He envisions an album recorded with just Zoom H4ns, praising both the quality of their recording (he actually likes the sound of the on-board compressor!) and the immediacy of being able to easily throw a bunch of H4ns in front of a band, anywhere at anytime, capturing the unique sonic attributes of various spaces, and enjoying the freedom of spontaneity.
Will H4ns replace Neumann mics running through API preamps into a ProTools system with Rosetta converters? Probably not, but they can offer some unique high quality recordings that would be impossible or unlikely with a boatload of gear...
there is an obvious appeal and demand for affordable, portable, quality devices that allow for the democratization of creation (even though they are often only used to create mountains of inane crap). The fact that Zacuto was testing an iPhone against an Arri Alexa speaks somehow to the quality of these devices, if not their relentless ubiquity...

Six months ago I shot a personal 'talking-head' vlog post with my iPhone 4S and was surprised at how good the sound and video quality was. I wouldn't say it rivalled the Canon XA10 I had, but it was easily equal to any consumer-grade camcorder costing less than $1000.00, if not better.

The high quality of output from the iPhone gives me the idea that devices like it could eventually replace consumer and even some prosumer camcorders once the problem of how to fit in a fully functional zoom lens (the iPhone has only a fixed lens) with full AF, manual focus and iris/aperture control is solved. All without adding any significant bulk to the existing form factor. And adding high-quality stereo audio acquisition capabilities too, without killing the battery in a hurry.

One major stumbling block is that most of the aftermarket add-on lenses designed to work with the iPhone are designed to work with the iPhone's built-in lens, with the end result that image quality is sub-par. That's because the iPhone was never designed to handle anything more than casual, on-the-fly video and audio acquisition and wasn't designed to accept add-on lenses.

That said, I don't think that the iPhone/iPad will ever fully replace all camcorders/video cameras in existence. The laws of physics are such that they tend to dictate lenses with lots of high-quality glass, and relatively large sensors, if image quality is to be maintained.

We had a camera club field trip at the weekend. A tourist couple asked how to access the river, and as that is where two of us were going they followed. The best shot was way over some serious rocks, and I clambered over with big CF tripod, and Canon 1DsMK3 plus backpack, and the tourists followed. Once across the rocks I duly started putting up tripod etc. and tourists suddenly whipped out an iPad and started taking pictures or video.

It was kind of ridiculous. I can see why folk would use their phones for that purpose, but this blooming great iPad with its pink protective cover, looked so incongruous. Bottom line is that conditions were terrible, and I bet their pictures were no different to mine. One of the club members did manage to find a winning shot despite the conditions, which does make you think twice about how you take pictures.

I'm referring to the yellow leaf three in from the left.

Marlborough Camera Club :: 2013 Field Trips (http://fraiser.hosts.net.nz/~marlboro/index.php/galleries/field-trips/2013-field-trips/)

I took the guy jumping after seeing the action and rushing back to my truck for my 1DMK4 and longer lens, but I mostly took shite pictures.