tadaa, here's one for starters:

Sony nex ea50 moire and aliasing test on Vimeo

Shot with the standard 18-200 powerzoom, the lens was struggling at F3.5 with the very first shots as it was too dark. For those first shots the iso was at 3200+ (see below) and I used a very flat ITU709 Gamma preset as it increases dynamic range considerably and at very dark location shows much more detail in shadows. For most other shots iso 1600 was used and ofcourse lower iso when sufficient light was available. The footage has not been colorcorrected and shot at 50P.

I would not go beyond 3200 iso with this camera, grain is quite visible in shadows while 1600 iso seemed like the sweet spot. Moire is not such an issue like my Canon 550d displays, it is there but if you look at the rooftiles you hardly notice it in wide shots. 5000 to 6400 iso just looks ugly, the noise is very visible then, maybe for those "I need to get it shots" and fix with neatvideo later but not for general use.

Some of those very first shots I had the camera set to display gain values insterad of iso, as there are much more smaller increments for ISO values it can be that the ISO was at that moment more then 3200 iso because the noise was quite present. After those shots I switched to ISO and didn't go beyond 3200 iso.

I will post some more aliasing and moire shots where it shows a bit better how bad it is, my Canon 550d at least has worse moire issues then the nex ea50. In this video there was a lot of fine detail that could cause aliasing or moire and if you look closely you will see it here and there. I"ll also provide some raw footage of that for anyone that might be interested, then at least you get to see it before any form of compression is applied.

I also plan to do some low light camparison with my 550d and sony cx730, next week my adapter arrives so I can attach some faster primes.

... I thought I was about to watch a horror movie there for a second. LOL Creepy location.

Footage looks good to me. There are so many good cameras in the $4000 +- range that it's hard to choose these days!

Great demo. A great deal of work went into it I'm sure. Thanks!

A great deal of work went into it I'm sure

Not realy, I filmed it this morning (was about 1 hour in the casino) and just did a quick edit :) It has been raining all day, very light rain so couldn't do more outside recordings, I do have more filmed from inside through the windows (without glass) that show the moire and aliasing issue better, especially when using the digital zoom which enhances teh problem.

I got a second one, this one is interesting, in this sample you can here the noise from the power zoom as well as handling noise when you touch the camera body, I didn't use the shotgun but the build in microphone.

You here me babbling in Dutch but I was giving myself some reference points to know what was going on when I would do the edit, therefore I included some tekst to show when the powerzoom or when the digital zoom was active.

The first part looks ok, there is some small moire on the house roof at the end when zoomed out but in general I"d say that looked good, the second part however when viewing the rooftiles at a sharp angle you can see that the digital zoom is magnifying the moire in a very nasty way, I saw it while filming which is why I tried different focal lenghts to see what would happen.

Sony nex ea50 moire and aliasing test 2 on Vimeo

Hi Noa

Thanks for that very technical test. I really think in real life no-one is going to see any issues at all with moire or and slight resolution loss using digital zoom. For me the camera came thru with flying colours.

I have seen worse moire on my CMOS 3 chip cameras especially on roof tiles and usually don't worry about it.

Just for interest what settings does the camera have for a "default" picture pofile (if there is one??) The one you are using seems a little flat (as you want it) but any suggestions what to use for a nice bright and saturated picture that you don't intend to colour correct. Sometimes my wedding footage just needs top and tailing so a nice vibrant picture profile would be great as default.

I will shoot some actual wedding footage on Saturday... I did a wild 500++ guest wedding yesterday with brightly dressed Congolese patrons ..would have liked to see how the Sony did with that!!

Still patiently waiting for delivery

Chris

The camera has a few other factory default profiles that give a much more saturated and contrasty look plus you can dial in your own values. So yes, you can make those colors pop. I only used this very flat setting because for dark areas it does the same as the technicolor cinestyle preset does on my canon 550d, it gives you much more details in shadows. I do have a yuv preset in Edius that brings back the basic color and contrast for the cinestyle preset but I noticed it works well on the flat settings from the Sony. You only will see the grain better in the shadows at high iso's, what can be seen in the first video I posted but if you crush the blacks a bit the grain will be a bit less noticeable.

As soon as we have got a dry day here I want to go out and film in some brighter conditions as well, in that casino I"m actually showing the camera at it worst with that slow lens because you can't expect noise free, vibrant color and sharp footage at those high gains. Maybe a fs100 can do that but if you are used to working with a xh-a1 the nex ea50 does wonders in low light compared to that camera. I have not done a side by side comparison yet but I would say it performs the same as my canon 550d. As soon as I get my adapter (next week) I can use the same lenses on both cameras and see what it can do.

The aliasing and moire thing, if you can't live with that you shouldn't buy this camera, my cx730 also shows signs of moire but from what I see it's better controlled on the ea50 then on my 550d, I can film small brick walls without it going berserk. I only want to find an example what I would classify as unacceptable with my 550d and then put the nex-ea50 beside it, I will try to see if I can get such an example but again if it stops raining here. I never will get used to the Belgian climate and it's only getting worse, I might have to move to Australia...

I have also gotten a response about the zoom not being very useful because it's too slow, too noisy and not that controllable. If you plan to buy this camera for fast action sports where you would have to zoom in and out to follow the action and use those zoom movements in the edit I also would say this is the wrong camera. You can use this power zoom to choose a frame or to at least have some form of controllable zoom if you would need it, I would be able to use this zoom to zoom in on a bride walking down the isle and then slowly zoom out as she walks towards me, in the edit I would only use the part where I am doing the zoom movement and that at least would be nice and smooth, something that was not possible before on a large sensor camera with photolenzes. So it has it's place but it will never replace or even come close to even the zoom lens of my cx730 but it was also not designed for that purpose.

Only with the digital zoom you need to be careful as it does make the moire much worse on the stock lens, if there is no fine detail in the shot you can use it with the image getting a bit softer but I would never use it with the stocklens as it only impacts the image quality in a negative way. With some prime lenses it might come in handy to reframe if necessary but I need to see how it would affect the image quality on my 14, 35 and 85mm lens once I have the adapter.The extended zoom on my cx730 also looses quality a bit which for some users is unacceptable but I found it acceptable in some cases and useful if you need a 17x instead of a 10x zoom so that might be the same when using the digital zoom with the primes, well see.

Hi Noa

During weddings the only zoom I will do is a tilt and zoom into when the bride signs the marriage certificate and also when they cut the cake..otherwise I only use zoom for framing really.

I'm thinking (hopefully) that the low light performance will blow me away ..It looks like it's still quite adequate even with the stock lens .... Churches should be a big improvement too...On my little 1/4" chips I found the iris open on auto and grain already at 11db and that is during an afternoon with lights on in the Church too!!

I'll shoot a bit prior to my weekend wedding around and about with the default PP and see what it looks like first (providing our stupid National Carrier actually gets around to making a delivery!!)

I think if you were here last week you would have got on the next plane to Belgium after we had 7 days of temps between 38 and 42 (Celcius!!) Otherwise yes the weather is great here for wedding videographers ...mainly fine from August to the end of May!! I had two weddings with a bit of rain this season but in 2011-2012 not one single day was wet...and that includes 3 weddings in June too!!

Chris

Hi Noa,

I believe I have read every post you have made about the EA50 prior to your delivery. You seemed to have great concerns about aliasing and moiré the whole time. Is it safe for me to assume you are hyper critical about this? Now that you have the camera and I read your comments I am not clear on what you think about it because you’re making statements like “not useable”.

As a shooter and technician I appreciate all of the details us professionals discuss about the capabilities (or lack of them) of today’s technological wonders (that’s the way I see them).

Let’s say you skillfully nail the perfect follow zoom shot as the bride turns from the alter and exits the church down the aisle. Your latest post makes it sound like you would not use the shot because of zoom noise and picture noise. My reaction to that is “are you kidding me!” Is the camera that bad? Would you really not use it? I have not used a camera in years with zoom noise so bad it would prevent me from delivery to a bride.

First, I will remind you guys I am not a wedding guy, I am a corporate guy, so you know your clients better than I do. My experience over the last fifteen years of pro video shooting is that the clients have a much more realistic expectation of “video quality” than we do. Clearly, the vast majority of complaints I ever received from clients were about things within my control. Not the things I may have been stressing about in post. They have never once called me and said why are those bricks moving?

So….I ask:
Are you happy with the camera? Does it meet or exceed your expectations?

Is the zoom noise really so bad it is unusable?

Is moiré and aliasing so bad it is unusable in a dim church if you zoom?

What media are weddings delivered on? I am assuming DVD? In which case you give them a choice between HD and SD because, at least here in the states, many people still have a standard DVD player hooked up to their HD wide screen?

Noa…I am looking for clarification on the technical details you are giving us and real world impression of the camera please.

Steve

I'm happy with it! It's not perfect, but all of the cameras in this price range have some tradeoffs. Would love to have a faster zoom (f2.8 would be nice), but that's an expensive accessory. I use the supplied shotgun mic and not the internal microphones so zoom noise isn't an issue. As I noted in other posts, the servo zoom is not very good, even for this class of camcorder, and the digital zoom, while quite smooth is not lossless as Sony claims. For weddings and corporate this is an excellent choice.

Is the camera that bad?

Or you are misunderstanding me or I am not making myself clear enough :D

First you need to know I have very, very limited experience with the camera, I took it out for a day and shot with it in a abandoned dark casino. That's it, so I can't comment how the camera would do in a paid assignment, yet.

What I have experienced so far, from that one time use is the following:

Moire and aliasing, yes it's there and no, it's seems not as bad as on my canon 550d BUT I will go out this week to find a building, rooftop or whatever that will make my canon 550d with the wide angle lens go wild in terms of moire and then I will place my ea50 next to it and then I will know 100% sure.

So far moire or aliasing does not seem a problem for my kind of work which is weddings, events and a occasional company video, you can check the first video I posted where there are several scenes moire or aliasing could be an issue but for my first experience it's not because if it's there, you hardly notice it.

The zoom, it is slow and it is noisy but you can manually zoom as well which can provide you with a faster zoom and still quite smooth. For me that's not an issue, I only use zooms for reframing or in a very rare case to follow a bride when so comes down the isle, other then that I don't use it. Would the zoom be useless to follow fast action sports where you continuously need to reframe (like rally sports), I think yes, this lens is not build for that kind of fast action.

Would the noisy lens be an issue, again, I checked with the internal mike only, not with teh shotgun so can't comment yet how and if it picks up the zoom sound but for the inbuild micro, yes, it would be a problem if you have no other audio source then your camera and if it's a quite environment. Here also listen to the powerzoom in my second video, I think that's also pretty clear it's too loud.

Is it an issue for me, no, I mainly use external microphones, either connected through xlr to my camera or independent recorders like a tascam dr24, yamaha c24 etc. Since I only use the zoom to choose my frame and if I would use the internal micro I would not use the zoom when recording critical audio for sure.

Could the digital zoom be a issue, I"d say yes, with the stock lens at least, just look at the second video I posted and that should be pretty clear, the digital zoom seems to enhance the moire, if it's there. I guess you can use it with certain shots which don't display moire or aliasing but even then it looks like the image degrades, but I have not done any further test with frame grabs and magnifying them to see (and compare to a normal zoom at the same focal length) if it really looses detail or not, it only looks like that. Again next week I should have my adapterring to fit my primes because the digital zoom is really something I plan to use with those lenses and then I can say more about it.

Is it safe for me to assume you are hyper critical about this?
Yes, it's safe to say that :) I knew the camera had issues with aliasing and moire but as long as it would be anything inbetween my 550d and my sony cx730 (and preferably closer to my cx730) I would be happy.

Am I happy with my camera so far, yes, but "so far" has just been a day. :)

Also, take my opinion for what it is, it's just the way I see it and that might be totally different how someone else would see it and also depends on what your end client is, I do plan to do more company videos with it but less weddings because it's too big to drag along all day. I just got the confirmation I can test my camera at an interview on a well lit stage on the 18th of Januari (a colleague of mine had that shoot planned and said I could come in for a test) so I know how it performs in those circumstanses as I plan to cover dance performances with it as well. As soon as I can share more personal experiences I sure will.

What media are weddings delivered on? I am assuming DVD? In which case you give them a choice between HD and SD because, at least here in the states, many people still have a standard DVD player hooked up to their HD wide screen?

I deliver on dvd and blu-ray.

In the few weddings I have done in my career, I have to say that moire and aliasing are far from the brides mind and IMO opinion would only be mentioned by her or someone else connected to the wedding if it ws really horrible but since most weddings are slow and fairly static (at least the ceremonys) for me it is really a none issue. Not to mention that I don't think Siny or any other manufacturer out there is going to let a product out that is that bad. Now while I say this I realize of course and have preached that no one piece of gear, camera, audio, editing whatever is all things to all people and even at a price 2 times or 4 times or 8 times as high as this camera is something can always be found to criticize. Now having said that, one must determine if this camera is one that can be worked with, be happy with, produce quality work with and bottom line, make money with while fulfilling the other demands I jsut mentioned.
So far I haven't seen anything so bad as to keep me away from the camera. Do I wish it had built in NDs or had a fater kit lens or a faster zoom? Sure, but it doesn't so I either learn to work with what it has or I don't get the camera. Even an old dog can learn new tricks and I think I can figure out how to use the camera to it's best quality.
The only place I have any concern at all is at receptions and since I'm probably going to get the SELP50 to go with it even that's not a big concern, so as soon as I get back from my trip, my favorite dealer is going to get somemore of my money.

Noa, Thank you for the clarification. It was the term unusable that scared me. Especially since mine is due to arrive Tuesday. I can never imagine a case when I would use the built in Mic, and rarely even the shotgun. If the noise is not picked up by the shotgun then I am fine with that.

I have looked at your videos several times and like what I see. In the second one however, when you are shooting the roof tiles from a window, it seems your point of focus is in the foreground. The tiles beyond that are out of DOF so it was hard to judge those shots.

I came from the analog days. To me these cameras are digital wonders. Our old $30.000.00 BetaSP cameras could not match the image quality we are getting today for much less!

Chris, Good luck on your delivery.

Don, My VL312 arrived yesterday (ordered on Thursday) I think I am going to love it. The diffusion needs to be knocked way back, as you said. But that's ok, you can always go back but you can't add power when you need it.

Steve

Gentlemen,

Here is how I deal with moire and aliasing in interviews; I shoot a ton of them. I know it does not apply to weddings but you said you’re not limited to that genre. Few of us are limited to just one thing. I cover all kinds of stuff.

I could not make this up if I tried. Around 1993 I went to Alabama, USA to shoot a two person interview. A male and a female. When they arrived on set the man was wearing a plaid sport coat, a pinstriped shirt, and a black and red checkered tie. The woman was wearing a bright red “power dress”! I about died right on the spot. Nothing was going to save me from Bozo the clown, his attire burst into life and her red dress was bleeding all over the place. The final delivery was VHS dups. Lesson learned.

To this day I have a very simple word document I forward to every client to give to the on camera subjects. It is a list of Wardrobe Suggestions for a Successful Video Shoot. And I get it to them as early as possible because many people not used to being on camera purchase new clothes just because they are going to be interviewed. You can’t imagine how well received it is. I hear it all the time once I am on set, “Hey that paper you sent me changed everything I was going to do.”. A little education and prevention goes a long way. I find amateur subjects want our input and guidance. I won’t comment on professional talent! The color red still scares me as much as herring bone even though it is not much of an issue today.

Steve

(not to hijack this thread about the ea50, a camera i'm interested in as a possible b cam to my fs100 but...)

steve-

i read your response and smiled as i remembered my own omg-what-are-they-wearing moments.

one of my mantras i offer clients is:

"pre-production planning saves post-productions dollars"

perhaps you care to share your clothing info doc?

be well.

rob
smalltalk productions
nyc

Hi Guys

Thanks Steve for the delivery "well wishes" ..I just got an email and the delivery is "with the driver" so if the world doesn't end, it will be delivered today sometime so I can allocate today as playtime but Saturday will be a real test.

Forums tend to get over technical..it's just our nature as "tech heads" and believe it or not it IS useful to get over technical but just realise that Noa isn't trying to say don't buy the camera. He is simply giving a scientific analysis of the end result. The bride/client will just never see that moire...we see it too only because Noa has pointing it out to us. Shucks, I get moire on my wedding videos from my Panny 3 chip cameras so it's not only big sensors that have the issue. I have NEVER had a client say to me "what is this on my video"

I will however give my overall impression later today after delivery and in fact, I have a Realty shoot on Wednesday so if I can get the Azden transmitter hung off the back by then I'll use the Sony..these are houses so plenty of moire opportunity!!

Chris

Rob, I will be glad to share. Shoot me an e-mail address.

Steve

Steven, I laughed at your description. It does bring back memories or is it nightmares.

Every LED light I own has a piece of Tough Spun on the diffusion lens otherwise IMHO it's just too harsh but I really like the 312. Even at it's size it has worked well for me both on and off the camera. Now I can also use my 8 power LED light as well since the Tough Spun is on it but honestly I prefer the 312 on camera except outdoors. That's when the 8 LED really "Shines". Lots of light.
As for the NEX50-well like I said, I haven't seen anything to discourage me so very soon mine will be on the way. Maybe by then everyone else will have some nice PPs that I can "borrow"!
O|O
\--/

Hi Don

I am now a proud EA-50 owner..it arrived this morning and batteries are charging. Now, not to alarm you but the manual says regarding batteries that you can ONLY use the InfoLithium F770 or F790 so more than likely your PD batteries are not the "L" series ..My lights use generic F770's so I don't think that they have the chip inside that tells you how much battery time is left!! I haven't found any Generic Batteries either that claim they have the chip so you might have to bite the bullet and buy new batteries.

All looks good so far and I love the focus expan and also iris button on the grip..that's awesome. My only minor complaint so far is that when you lock the LCD (to stop it folding inwards) it also locks the tilt and I do like to be able to tilt my EVF ...maybe some type of little block or mod can be made so the LCD and combined EVF doesn't fold inwards on itself?? It's a pity Sony didn't add a little lock lever to the LCD so it can still tilt but doesn't turn on the spindle?

Chris

so more than likely your PD batteries are not the "L" series
My 7 year old original 970 sony battery (I used to have a sony vx2100) fits and works, only my lenmar batteries don't, they don't snap into place. It seems Sony engineering has been working hard to assure you can't use generic batteries :) The same applies with my sony cx730, generic batteries do work there but can cause the camera to stop recording just like that, only a quick warning on your screen and then the camera shuts down. Eventhough Sony batteries are expensive I"m only using originals now, just like Sony would have wanted :)

Just to keep this thread on track again, I've just done a quicky looking for moire patterns outside, the weather was turning so I had to be quick not to get caught in the rain but I think I have captured a few images that show the ea50 is a bit better then my canon 550d in reducing moire.

All shots where done handheld as I had no time to drag along my tripod.

In the first shot it looks a bit worse on the ea50 but the second shot the ea50 was better and the 3rd shot the ea50 was a bit better as well.

Often moire patterns in small bricks on buildings dissapear if you go closer, move position or zoom in, the first shot of that villa, when I moved a few meters to the left or right the moire patterns dissapeared so often it is a matter of changing your position. That doesn't doesn't count for all moire patterns you might encounter however, but in general I"d say the EA50 does better, not much but in some cases it displays a finer moire then the 550d.

Moire Aliasing 3 on Vimeo

Hi Noa

It seems to be distance related ?? I shot bricks today and not a single bit of moire but the roof tiles on the house about 200m away did shimmer a bit. I notice that the white building due to the fact that you are closer, is not as bad.

Is there any relationship between distance and how the camera show moire?? I really wouldn't worry too much about it, especially for weddings..the bride and groom are not going to be outside a red brick barn half a kilometer away!

Chris

I was not closer to the building but what you see is the difference between the 14mm samyang lens and 18mm stock lens for the sony.

Is there any relationship between distance and how the camera show moire?? I really wouldn't worry too much about it, especially for weddings..the bride and groom are not going to be outside a red brick barn half a kilometer away!

I have had very nasty moire on my dslr inside a venue once where they had very small kind of tiles in the ceiling so it doesn't appear only on small bricks.

Now you can't change the fact that the moire is there, it does however not seem to be so noticeable in most cases as on my dslr and that is a good thing, now I do worry about it and always try to avoid it when possible, I think if you are delivering to a client, whether it's someone getting married or someone needing a company video, you should always go for the best image you can get, otherwise you wouldn't need to bother to deliver in HD but just get a older 4:3 SD camera and stretch the image to fit 16:9 because most won"t even notice it as well. :)

Like the first shot of that villa, if that would have been a paid assignment to get footage to sell the building that would be unacceptable for me and I"m sure for the client as well, in that case I would move, zoom in or do whatever necessary to get rid of those wavy lines.

Hi Noa

The main object is to identify what the camera doesn't like and try ones best to avoid it, if that indeed had been a Realty shoot and the guy wanted a video to sell that actual property then certainly you wouldn't even think of leaving it like that.

As long as we know what to avoid then the problem can be avoided initially...!

Your hard work here is always appreciated.

I'm doing a Realty shoot in the morning for a 2 bedroom villa ... I'll see what causes any issues there and let you know if I find any bad cases of moire

Chris

Noa & Chris,

As Chris said, thank you for all of the hard work and information you are sharing with this brand new Sony that has so little real world testing. I am enjoying your threads very much. Don mentioned sharing picture profiles. Would you guys be willing to start a thread on that? As wedding shooters I am assuming both of you guys must be masters of exposure (something near and dear to me). I am a fanatic about it. Working constantly in low light and battling black and white subjects at the same time is challenging to say the least. I would love to lean from guys half a world away on how you manage that. For what it’s worth I would be happy to post mine once I figure out a few but I am sure I would have more to learn than contribute. Thanks again for the information and tolerating my intrusions. I will try to be more informative once I have camera in hand, hopefully tomorrow!

Steve

Sorry to go OT but I specifically wanted to address you two guys.

Don mentioned sharing picture profiles. Would you guys be willing to start a thread on that?

That would be great but I"m afraid I won't be contributing to that thread as I am awefull in creating or testing out my own camera presets. My xh-a1 also had 1001 available user presets but I always found that colors where often off. That's why I prefer to use a flat preset and make a color profile in Edius, preset 3 on the ea50 seems to do that trick but I certainly would like to try other presets as well.

thank you for all of the hard work and information you are sharing with this brand new Sony that has so little real world testing

I"m currently dealing with my last editing backlog on weddings and plan to finish completely in about 3 week. Since I have no deadline on antyhing right now and since I"m closing down on a busy season I can finally make more time availabe for personal projects, but also to test the camera before I use it in the field, I think it's not more then normal to share that experience.

I always have appreciated real life, and honest, feedback from other users as well as they can be a valuable tool in purchasing decissions. It's only difficult to know who to trust, maybe you have a user that is brand biased and they never will admit any real issues or you might have users that don't have the experience to do a "test" in the right way. I remember a user claiming his outdoor nx5 footage was soft and showed footage from it, later it appeared he didn't know what the ND's where for meaning the image suffered from diffraction because he didn't use a nd to compensate for a bright and sunny day so it's easy to be fooled.

I also expect other people to question my results as I view it from my experience so far and I certainly am no authority in video matters, I just try real hard but don't always succeed :) but I like to share information, it awlays feels nice if you are able to help others.

Hi Guys

I think profiles are also a matter of personal choice and your subject too...I guess my target would probably be to get skin tones looking natural and not to get the grass greener and brighter. If you were doing a promo for a golf club then you would need the grass to look as good as possible.

Maybe start on PP's by commenting on the presets and see what you feel each would be suited for??

A new thread would be the order of the day so we don't hijack Noa's thread here.

I have 3 Realty shoots today and tomorrow so I can "play" probably on Thursday and Friday??

Steve should also have his camera in a day or so too !

Chris

It kind of appears that either PP3 or PP4 is going to be the starting place. Man I can't wait to get mine. I have to sit on my hands to keep from ordering before the end of the month. :-(

I"m out shooting this weekend at a mining facility that has been closed down for about 20 years, you can't go underground anymore but they kept most buildings in their original state and it's open to public, there's also a man build 150 meter high mountain from all the stone that came from below the ground, you can go to the top of that mountain and have a great view (the cole mining activity was between 700 and 900 meter deep), it will be a weird feeling because my grandfather, my father and I have worked there, I used to be a coleminer in the eigthies...

This time I will take all my primes with me and try real hard to make a nice film :) No complaining about moire, aliasing, noise or whatever, just try to get the best from the camera and try to work around any problems I might encounter. I only hope it will stop raining because it almost has been raining constantly here the past weeks, the forecast is colder weather so that usually means dry wheather to. Will post if finished.

Hi Noa

That will be awesome!! Just purely for interest what age are you now? It's actually very interesting as you are talking to people and really get to know them well except you never know if they are in their early 20's or 50's or 60's!! I think Don and I are both around the same age (I'm 66 (rather would be 36 of course!!))

Hope the weather holds out ...I'll be using the 50 along with the Panasonics at an outdoor wedding in our South West so I'll most definately post some footage of that.

Chris

Wedding footage from the ea50 would be very interesting indeed and especially your experience with it during such a run and gun situation, I"m approaching 50, I actually was 17 when I started working in the colemines, a very tough environment for a teenager. The mines ruined my back and hearing, not a fun period but a experience that you never forget :)

Thanks Noa

At least I know I'm dealing with a more experience person who still knows what VHS was?? That's great .. I was brought up initially on film cameras and analogue video cameras so understanding basics is easy for me!

I am planning to use one Panny as the main camera at the outdoor ceremony and then use the Sony for cutaways but during lulls I'll also try to replicate what the Panny is shooting ..I think the Sony has proved itself so far with 4 Realty shoots and no issues so I'll use that for prep and reception too then the Panny again for speeches and the Sony for speech cutaways ...as you notice I prefer the Sony a LOT better for handheld stuff!!

Chris

At least I know I'm dealing with a more experience person who still knows what VHS was?? That's great ..
The tv series I clearly remember we recorded on the very first vhs recorder my dad bought was an episode from Buck Rogers and I remember how we gazed upon the fact that we could pauze the film :)

I think it will be interesting to see how the camera handle highlights and deep shadows in the same image, since you have so hot weather right now that should be quite a challenge with that glaring sun, how is it actually now, I can imagine people at a wedding (and you) having tough times to cope during the day with temperature above 40?

Hi Noa

The weather has settled down again and we are back to the mid 20's again..Saturday will be 32 but the wedding ceremony will be under some huge fig trees so we won't have a massive contrast to deal with.

I have a wedding every weekend for a while so you can sure that one of them will be a real hot one with severe contrast ... Again only the crazy people get married on the beach in Summer ...my next few are in the shade so that won't help... We had pretty bright sun today and suring my property shoot the auto mode went to 1/125th and F16 but the shutter didn't try for any higher...exposure looked good to me!!

Chris

Hi Chris,
best of luck with that. Is the auto focus going to be better for you than your 82's ? I have read here that it is slow. Also, are you hearing the same zoom noise as Noa?

And regarding age I am 67, so round about your neck of the woods. I cut my video teeth on the Sony cv2400 portapak in 1967 as a then young industrial engineer ( Ha!! the recorder weighed over 10 pounds without batteries!!) - half inch reel to reel tape - those were the days-- (acually they weren't- and editing was a nightmare!

Hi Rod

The AF is rock solid on these cameras ..it's a little slow doing Realty shoots when I scan white walls and ceilings in low light but the 82's were the same..can't expect any camera to autofocus fast on a blank white area. I still want to know why you need a camera with a huge zoom range and why it needs to autofocus fast at 23X zoom??? I would be looking at a manual focus there anyway. The Sony focus is overall pretty darn good and IF I needed a huge zoom I can simply get an adapter and put on something like a 800 mm vintage lens ... I could maybe see the reason if you are shooting wildlife from maybe hundreds of metres away but for normal shoots do you really shoot at 23X??

I think you will find that the JVC 650 will also struggle at high zooms with autofocus.

Hmmm you out-age me by merely a year but then again we both really act and feel like we are still in our 30's don't we?

Chris

Low light.....huge zoom power....AF? Surveillance. Just wondering???? Totally rhetorical....

Hi Steve

No, Rod doesn't do that sort of thing..his are mainly promos and commercial work. Sounds like fun though, leaning off the ledge of a high rise building trying to catch the unfaithful hubby in the act....Nope I don't think I would go for that.

Just to fill you in on the technical side, Rod was testing the Panasonic AC-160 indoors using max zoom and shifting pan from one object to another both quite far away and the camera initially was freezing after a few pans so Panasonic did a warranty repair but I still have no idea why Rod needs to do these autofocus at such a long zoom unless he simply feels that the AF should work at any zoom.

Hmmm I can see it now on the door of your office "Steven Digges - P I - Marital video surveillance a speciality"

Chris

Touche.....I deserved that...I am laughing....glad I did not offend with my remark. Video has taken me to a few exciting assignments....peeping or investigations is not one of them.....

Hi Rod

I still want to know why you need a camera with a huge zoom range and why it needs to autofocus fast at 23X zoom??? I think you will find that the JVC 650 will also struggle at high zooms with autofocus.


Hmmm you out-age me by merely a year but then again we both really act and feel like we are still in our 30's don't we?

Chris Heehee! I don't need it. But the fact that it could do it 7 times and fail on 3 just irritated me! I am an engineer and mechanical repeatability is just a thing with me. (especially when all sorts of BS comes my way telling me that I should accept it just doesn't work consistently!) I spent too many years working on six sigma performance projects to take it- In England it is called grumpy old git syndrome!

And yes Chris, on age- I have spent most of my long life trying to grow up but just can't get the hang of it, so stuff it! So, in the words of the song " forever young".

I'm really pleased that you are getting good results with the 50- I am watching this space for you further findings and observations- nothing like real data is there!
Cheers!
Rod

Hey Rod

Well at least Steve and I are relieved that you are not participating in video surveillance with your long range zoom. (I was of course only kidding in my previous posts!)

In the morning I'm heading into our South West for a wedding shoot..the main cam will still be the Panny HMC82 but I'll shoot cutaways and try to emulate the same shots as the HMC is getting in a few clips as well...The Sony is already balanced on my stedicam (to my delight I had to remove half the lower stage weight so the drop time was normal so it should be way easier to fly)

I'll also use the EA-50 for most of the events (except speeches main camera) with the stock lens so that should give everyone a fair idea of performance. You can be assured that I will report everything I feel is worth commenting on (both good and bad)

So far I have no idea what focal length fast prime to use so I'll use the slow zoom at the reception and see what I have got into the habit of shooting with ..I think it will be most wide on the Panny (equiv 41mm) so it will tend to be around a small amount of zoom on the Sony

Chris

A quick glimpse into Early Winter in CT on Vimeo

Here is a video I did with the 50 and NX 7U. The still was shot using the DZ in conjunction with a 40+ year old 300mm nikkor lens and sturdy tripod. The camera performs without question. One essental. Use the loupe in bright sunlight because accurate focusing is key when using the digital zoom. Peaking & expanded focus are also key.. The system is much bigger then you think. It's a beast but the shots one can get out of this system is remarkable as seen by the work seen on this site.

The DZ, in conjunction with fast primes, is a revelation, something seen in a video shot done for a Guinness world record for door to door caroling whereby much of the shoot was done at night using another ancient Nikkor, this time a 50mm 1.4.

12/12/12 - Carols on Vimeo

Cool Stuff Robert,

Love the moon shot. It is one of my favorite subjects over the years. So...would that be 300mm x2 (digital zoom) + 1.5 conversion factor?

Curious about why you added it on to this thread?

Steve

The DZ doubled the 300mm to 600mm and, as you correctly stated, the crop is 1.5/6, which makes the field of view equivalent to 450mm w/o DZ and 900mm with. The original is a 16m still down-sampled to 1920 X 1080. I use the pix as a thumbnail for the video and thought it appropriate as I shot the early winter piece right around the time of the full moon. :)

Age of yours truly, 67. :)

Hey Robert

We might be in the mid sixties BUT we act like we are still in our 30's and have the stamina to match too..I can still do a 13 hour stint at a wedding where many younger than us would complain and fade!!

It's just a number ... with weddings maybe the fact that most of the bridal party are 40 years my junior gives me an extra boost???

Chris

Age is MIND over MATTER...If you don't mind, it doesn't matter!

I love going into weddings and seeing the parents...I have kids as old or at least close to as old as many of them. THAT does make me feel a bit old. ;-)

Moved it to another thread.

Age really is mind over matter. I build websites and the competition I deal with are people in their 20's. Never stop learning new stuff is key as most of us old timers have have recreated their professions many times over. :)