Hi Guys

I have put together 3 clips done in 1280x720 so you can see the EA-50 in action. Just bear in mind I shot this with the Sony as a "B" Cam and it full auto everything. I have also dropped in a clip comparing the Sony with my panny HMC82 that was the "A" camera ....The footage colourwise seems quite close using the PP3 preset unmodified. The biggest asset I found doing run 'n gun was total ease of use. Now, I also had no ND filters and everything was stock lens 18-200.

I feel maybe that the camera running at F16 sometimes might have degraded the image a bit???

Feel free to comment on the technical side ..(BTW: Only the reception clip has audio..I muted the others) EDIT: It looks like YT defaults to 360P so make sure you change quality to HD!!!

Chris

rawprep - YouTube

rawcompare - YouTube

rawindoors - YouTube

Just watched the wedding vows.

To be honest, I liked the Panasonic more, it looked slightly sharper. Where as the EA50 looked more smooth asif it's been recorded in Portrait mode of some sort creating that airbrush effect.

I think the EA50 will only shine when prime lenses are attached. So any one considering buying this camera is simply paying for the form factor and the option of being able to change lenses by the looks of it.

Hi James

That was my concern about shooting outdoors without an ND filter.. I think the footage does go a bit soft if the aperture is tiny...If you compare the same Panasonic and Sony during the nighttime speeches you can see that the Sony has a much better dynamic range and also looks sharper as the iris was a lot more open (F4 or F5.6 if I remember correctly)

The only way to really find out is to do it and see what the results are...The Panasonic was at F2.o plus it had it's automatic ND filters kicking in as well.

Chris

Thx a lot Chris for your time to put this online, guess it must not be easy doing all your weddings, editing and then prepare and upload something in between for us geeks to stare at :) The youtube compression is not really good to compare but from what I see the ea50 handles highlights better on the faces in those outdoor shots and the color on the indoor shots also seems very natural.

I did notice in the first video when you zoomed in on the dress (01:13) the autofocus shifted to the background so that is something to consider when having the focus in auto as the lens has a shallower dof inside when the iris is open and out of focus will show much quicker.

As with any camera the exposure on outdoor footage is key to get a good image, my preferred way of working is to always adjust exposure manually and I even do that on my small cx730's. Especially with these high contrasts scenes I found that underexposing a bit gives better results. The footage I made on that coalmine mountain did not have the same light intensity as a hot day in Australia but the sun was shining fully but lower to the horizon then in the summer, there where however some very bright surfaces and quite high contrasts. If I let the camera handle the exposure it would overexpose a bit which gives a "video" like look while when I underexposed a bit to better balance dark shadows and bright surfaces I got that look I am after.

I will try to go out the following days to shoot with my primes what won't be easy as it is getting a lot colder here and there is a snow forecast so that should be fun, see how long it takes before the camera freezes :)

Thanks Noa

Just remember this was raw footage, randomly picked so most will not even be used. I was using the Sony on shoulder (hence the wobbly vows footage) as I was also shooting cutaways as well.

Have you any idea at what stage the image will start to lose resolution when the F stop gets to small???
Being a newcomer to big sensors I have no idea but with 1/3rd chip cameras the sweet spot is supposed to be F5.6 and no more than F8 ... In auto the camera was closing up a lot more than that ...I'll do a few trails at home in bright sun with different shutter speeds and apertures and see if there is a visual difference.

BTW: I picked up an almost new SEL50F18 lens for this for $200 yesterday (better than my Sony Centre down the road who wanted $399.00) so I also have to get to grips with that.

Yes, you are right, I need to pay a lot more attention to DOF now that with small chip cameras one could ignore as everything was always in focus.

Chris

James,
It looks like portrait mode? Really??? Pretty strong slam coming from someone looking at raw unedited footage on you tube. Do you have any experience with this camera or evaluating it's footage? Sounds like you already have an axe to grind to me.

Steve

Thanks Steve

What on earth is "portrait mode" anyway...I was simply shooting cutaways of the guests to supplement the main camera and I decided to "overshoot" the main camera so I could get some comparison footage. At the distance I was away from the couple (way behind the main camera I simply zoomed up so the framing would be approximately the same and just shot it on auto. The whole idea here is to find out what the camera can and cannot do and also see what to avoid in terms of moire and such as well. As it turns out it was indeed useful to find out that running high apertures will degrade the image somewhat.

I still need to budget for a second EA-50 so for now I'm mixing with the Panny and I also wanted to see what the PP3 profile would be like. It's quite close actually and pretty much "video like" rather than "cinematic" so it will match well. Once I can shoot with two Sony's I can fool around with PP's

Chris

I think the EA50 will only shine when prime lenses are attached. So any one considering buying this camera is simply paying for the form factor and the option of being able to change lenses by the looks of it.

I think the stock lens is also quite good as it covers a large focal length, has a powered zoom and autofocus. 3 combined feautures that are unique for a lens designed for large sensor camera's, especially considering it's pricepoint. Basically it's a DSLR in a semi-shouldermount package which has many advantages over using a dslr but also several disadvantages.
For me it's a quite complete camera, it has all functionality you would expect from a more professional camera, something dslr's are lacking but unfortunately it carries some weacknesses (like moire and aliasing) the first generation Canon dslr's where plagued with.

Have you any idea at what stage the image will start to lose resolution when the F stop gets to small???
No I don't, I do think the large sensor allow much higher f-stops then what a 1/3 inch sensor camera can take before the image turns soft.

BTW: I picked up an almost new SEL50F18 lens for this for $200 yesterday
That's a great lens for closeups and for creative shots, autofocus, iris and stabilisation also function with this lens, no?

That's a great lens for closeups and for creative shots, autofocus, iris and stabilisation also function with this lens, no?

All three functions are available on that lens. It's a bargain.

"Portrait Mode" is a setting found on Sony's low level consumer camcorders. It attempts to create a shallow DOF by making the camera shoot in apature priority at it's widest apature. I don't think that is what James was referring to in it's truest sense. We responded nicely to his previous posts. There lies the truth behind his slam on the kit lens.

Steve

Chris,

You are baffling me by talking about lenses getting soft at small apertures? Please explain, maybe I don’t understand the relationship between lens and video sensors? I thought all of my traditional lens knowledge still applied:

1. There is no way to manufacture GOOD cheap glass. With glass, you still get what you pay for.
2. The smaller the aperture, the more depth of field, and generally the SHARPER the image. Exception to this would be zooms which are often sharpest in their middle range but that is manufacturing, not physics.
3. Big wide apertures. Shallowest DOF and usually softest spot on the lens. You are gathering light from the maximum amount of the glass surface. Needing the lens to be its best at the most difficult task.

Why would “chips” or “large sensors” vary from these basic rules? I do know that one difference between video and still lens manufacturing is that the low resolution of video images is taken into account to save manufacturing dollars. In other words, the lens only needs to be sharper than the ability of the highest resolution that camera can record. Could this be what you are referencing?

To me, a lens with an aperture range of F3.5 to F22 should look very sharp at F8 to F11.

When I first bought the “wide angle” lens for my old Canon XL1 I was disappointed but not surprised to see it fall apart at F2.8. The wide open aperture on a wide lens without detail in SD made it look terrible.

I believe it was a group of Ansel Adams followers that started a group called the F64 club. Those tiny apertures on their large format film cameras were how they got the landscape “look” of the day, Extreme depth of field. They could have the flowers in the immediate foreground be sharp and the distant mountain peaks in perfect focus too.

Please help me understand, I must be missing something.

Steve

On my Canon xh-a1 with a small 1/3rd inch sensor if you would film in a bright sunny day and did not use the ND's but closed the iris as much as you could the image would get noticeable softer, as if the image was unsharp, which is caused by diffraction. The camera performed best around f4 to f5.6.
The camera was capable to have f-stops between f1.6 and f9.5 but if you let it run in auto in bright sunlight without using the ND f-stop values appeared much higher then what the camera was phsically capable off which I think was an indication of what the camera thought the correct f-stop "should" be, in those cases you got noticeable unsharp images.

Wow ... no need to take offense from my comment regarding the kit lens.

All I said was judging from the panasonic footage and the sony. The panasonic seemed a littler sharper in my eye.

When I said portrait, I was referring to a picture style in DSLRs that create pictures/videos with a slight blur, as to make the subject look like they have a blemish free face, rather than one that is sharp showing all the defects - does that make sense ? :P

Not slating the EA50 at all. As a matter of fact I think i'll be buying one next week.

Chris,


2. The smaller the aperture, the more depth of field, and generally the SHARPER the image. Exception to this would be zooms which are often sharpest in their middle range but that is manufacturing, not physics.


Steve

Hi Steve,
Depth of field is maximised by a smaller aperture: However, sharpness is limited by physics strangely. Diffraction starts to encroach as apertures diminish. The technical term for the cause of this effect is called "airy discs". An understanding of this characteristic helps explain why this happens.

Have a look at any high quality resolution test on a still lens and you will always see optimum performance anywhere between f5.6 and f11. , never at f16-22. The Ansel Adams f64 was purely because of the size of the negative ratio to the focal length of the lens. The bigger the format, the shallower the DOF, hence a smaller aperture required.
This article explains resonably clearly, the relationship of aperture to resolution. I hope it helps. Resolution of camera lenses where are the limits – and why? (http://www.dantestella.com/zeiss/resolution.html)

edit: I just realised that you may well have been talking about perceived sharpnes via depth of field-and yes you are right of course, smallest aperture = largest perceived DOF:. This is different of course to resolution on the film face. I may be wrong (usually am!) but I think Chris was referring to a softness (ie lower resolution) rather than a depth of field issue.
Cheers!
Rod

Also some of his lenses were 128. I used to use 8X10 Deardorffs for catalouge pages back in the stone age and a few of the lense I had access to were 128 although the sweet spot was around 1/32. Imagine using something like that today for run N gun. Ha!

I have heard the Sony SEL50 prime not only is a great lens for the NEX-EA50 but it does it's best work at f/5.6. Sounds like a winner to me but then I'm half in San Juan right now so whadda I know?!

James, I don't get offended if anyone slams the gear I use. Each to their own. And as we say here there is no wonder camera that does it all. It sounded to me like you were completely blowing off the system based on a rough piece of video Chris put up for a rough comparison. Any HD footage mashed down to YouTube compression looks bad. So, I did think you were taking a SHOT at it. It reflected on you, not me. Sorry if I misunderstood.

Rod,

I will read the article. I laughed because your post reminded me how long it has been since I DID study charts and graphs. I guess the diffraction in my processing center is heavier that it used to be. I said it wrong, but I do know the smallest aperture on any lens is not the sweet spot!

Steve

Hi Guys

Even on my monitor in 1920x1080 the Panasonic with the tiny 1/4" chips still looked sharper than the EA-50 to my eyes. Why I have no idea..we were in quite deep shade so the Sony would have been no higher than 1/125 and F8 ..probably less... I was using AF so maybe the focus wasn't perfect but then again the background also wasn't that sharp either. I might just be fussy though? Next wedding what I will do is keep focus peaking on so I can see what the camera is actually locking onto...I did have a clip during bridal prep where the brides face (I was about 10' away) was decidedly soft!!

More experimentation is required I think ...has anyone else been testing the autofocus??

Chris

If you use the 8x magnification it's easier to check if your autofocus is off, until now I have not actually used the autofocus, I only will use it if I have no other choice, with my dslr's it's also all manual all the time and I got used to it, since focus is so critical on fast lenses manual focusing using the magnify option and as second option the peaking (doesn't work that well in low light) is a must.

This friday I"m filming a interview on a well lit stage, I"m going to test a few lenses and compare to my cx730 and I"m trying to get access to the "glass house" nearby where I live to make a second short but with primes only, the glass house is a place where they make all kind of glass objects, you are allowed into the place where they actually make the glass this but it's expensive (around 200 dollar!) but if you stay in the exhibit area where they place all the finished objects it's much cheaper (just 5 dollar to get in), this area is made almost completely out of glass so will be nice to film.

The only thing is that it isn't easy to get a permit to get in with a professional looking camera, hope they will allow me.

Hi Guys

Even on my monitor in 1920x1080 the Panasonic with the tiny 1/4" chips still looked sharper than the EA-50 to my eyes. Why I have no idea..we were in quite deep shade so the Sony would have been no higher than 1/125 and F8 ..probably less... I was using AF so maybe the focus wasn't perfect but then again the background also wasn't that sharp either. I might just be fussy though? Next wedding what I will do is keep focus peaking on so I can see what the camera is actually locking onto...I did have a clip during bridal prep where the brides face (I was about 10' away) was decidedly soft!!

More experimentation is required I think ...has anyone else been testing the autofocus??

Chris


Thanks for the post Chris! Much appreciated. Regarding focus, did you ever try using the focus distance readout that some cameras have? It's basically where on the LCD display it says how many feet/meters away is in focus. SUPER helpful. I'm not sure if the EA50 has it, but I read somewhere that it does. Can you tell me if this camera has that feature? I've found on my Panasonic cams that it's literally become my #1 tool to use all day as we stay manual for pretty much everything that we shoot on tripods and then auto focus for much of when we're handheld on the run. But it's most helpful during Ceremony coverage where you can basically find out where the couple will be standing ahead of time and measure how far away that is from where you think (or know) your cameras will be. Ceremonies are much more stagnant and predictable where people will be so you can get pretty accurate measurements ahead of time (I do it about 5-10 mins before the start). We do this for every Wedding and it's a HUGE help. During the day, we use a measuring tape or something similar, and during the evening or when its not in bright sun, we use a laser measurer and then adjust accordingly when the subject moves, etc. It's awesome. My Panny's have awful LCD screens so I HAVE to do this but I plan to carry this over when we upgrade cams this year. Even with my current 1/3" chip where it "appears" that much of the shot is in focus, I can always tell when it blows up to a 50" screen when the plants behind a couple are a bit more in focus than their faces which I would NEVER be able to tell on my low rez LCD. We shoot about 40 weddings a year out here in Los Angeles and I can't tell you how much that little feature has saved my life.

Thanks for the comparison footage. Nice to see people out there using this camera in real world situations now and then posting here so we can all learn from and decide if this is the "right" camera for us.

you can have the readout in meters but I found it not very accurate and it's pretty useless with fast primes, with dslr lenses there is no such thing as approximate guessing what distance you are from you subject, your focus has to be dead on and the only way to be absolutely sure is to use the 4 tor 8 times magnifier which can be used during recording and the second very useful aid is the peaking but that doesn't always show well when using primes in low light. I also found the peaking distracting at times when I wanted to double check focus as it covers fine lines that you might need as a reference to check focus. Now I have assigned peaking to a button on the side to quickly turn it on or off when needed.

You also have the touch focus and face recognition features which can be a great help setting your focus but even then you still need to manual check if the camera did right.

I think mainly anyone that have not worked with a dslr before will be in for a surprise when getting this camera because it's basically a dslr in a big body, the stocklens can be somewhat forgiving and used in auto as long as there is sufficient light. But don't think this is an easy camera to operate, the most tricky part is definitely keeping your focus once you start adding faster glass, it's like night and day compared to a 1/3 inch sensor camera. But the good thing is the camera has a few, like described above, useful features that help you getting the focus right.

James,

+1 on everything Noa said. He has it down. But the camera is so feature rich I disregard some of them but you might like them:

The camera will tell you in feet or meters what the focus distance is and you can even register focus points. If you are a nut you can even measure it down to the sensor plane marked on the body. There is a page and a half description in the manual on how to program an automatic rack focus. Are you kidding me? If you can't pull a focus from one point to another.........Oh well, each to their own :)

Another feature I turned off is GPS. It is there if I ever need it but why drain batteries. I try to know where I am at on a job site.

As Noa said, the LCD focus assist is awesome, as are many other focus tools.

Steve

Agreed Steve

My GPS is off too but it might be useful if I get really lost!! The AF isn't really bad at all but yes using focus assist at weddings is a good idea especially if the light is low ..I must get used to that .... peaking is maybe easier to use as it indicates what the cam has focussed on exactly in auto..if it's OK you can snap to manual and record, if not you can adjust where needed...cripes, I will have to get used to that!!!

To be really, really honest I only use manual on tripod mounted cameras ..wedding ceremony and speeches so I'm sure there is no drift ....for cutaways on my shoulder I use auto so I need to get out of that habit pronto especially with a super fast lens!!!

My other issue is below :


I have also been using my 50 for my Realty Property Condition Reports.. and I really prefer auto here!! Speed is of the essence!!!...For those who don't know, these are non-creative filming of rooms in a rental home with narration commenting on what's damaged and what's not damaged...The Panny HMC and Sony handle the focus fairly well but mostly lose the plot when I'm panning the camera over white bare walls and pure white ceilings. There is no contrast at all so the cams have nothing to lock onto especially is a lowish light empty room ... So what's the solution???? I was wondering if I would get away with locking the focus in a room to say 2metres and use a 16mm pancake ....If I keep my position then 99% should be in focus even at F2.8 as the DOF at 2 metres away from the wall would be between 1.5 metres and 3.7 metres so that would work UNLESS I get closer than 1.5m!!!

Any bright ideas here???

Chris

Yes. Your new best friend is going to be the Focus Lock/Auto button. I love that thing. I used it on my canons all the time. But they only went from manual to auto when pushed to pull a focus. On the Sony it works both ways. If you like auto, make sure it is in focus, then hold the button down when you pan so it does not search or change on the blank walls.

You could also put a piece of gaff tape on the blank wall to pull a manual focus then take it off when you shoot.

I'm afraid a 16mm might scew to much on a pan?

And just a reminder. When on a tripod don't forget to turn all image stabilization off or it will drive you crazy watching the whole image keep moving after your pan stops.

Steve

Thanks Steve

That's a great idea!! I'm off to do one now so I'll let auto focus then pan with focus locked ..I do walls at full wide (18mm) and a little skew is no real issue ..they are more interested if the wall is damaged!! Even at 18mm I should have plenty of DOF to play with.

Got my SEL50 a few minutes ago..it's a nice lens but here auto is really slow at at F1.8 the DOF is tiny so that's a definate manual focus ....I am using peaking and the yellow peak as I find it's easier to see than the white. Who uses other colours and why??? I also have my level high so it shows up to the fullest.

It's a mean lens ...in my dark office the stock zoom was F3.5 at 18db, the 50mm was F1.8 and 3db ..nice bright image!! This will be awesome for wedding receptions!!!

Stabilization should be off all the time..you should have no issues with a shoulder mount cam getting smooth and it better that it's off so when you are fixed you don't forget!!

Chris

Chris, I think Steven hit the nail on the head with his idea for you but you just got my juices going with your "review" of the 50. I can't wait to get my camera and that 50 with it.
I'm looking very closely at the Rokinon 85 as well per Noa's recommandation. I think that would be a good length for MoS and talking heads but first I'll try the 50. I got a feeling it will work out very well as well.

Hi Steve and Don

Steve you are a genius!! Focus hold works like a charm!! I used it this morning ..the big issue on Realty is ceilings..the pure white gives the cam nothing to focus on so I start in the corner (with peaking on) and then hold and "scan" the entire ceiling ..even at 18mm F3.5 there is plenty of DOF and the AF never hunts at all.... !!

Don, remember than the camera has a 1.5 crop factor so a 50mm is actually 75mm ... I thing a 50 would be perfect for talking heads...I'm using manual focus..the auto is way too slow!!

Now, apart from the Metabones adapter is there anything else that will allow auto iris with other lenses??

You mention the Rokinon ? Do their cine lenses (that are already e-mount) run the iris???

Chris

Chris,

Not a genius, just beginners luck!

Steve

You mention the Rokinon ? Do their cine lenses (that are already e-mount) run the iris???

No, you have to set the iris and focus on the lens.

I'm looking very closely at the Rokinon 85 as well per Noa's recommandation. I think that would be a good length for MoS and talking heads

I mainly use this lens at receptions and at the venue in the evening to capture talking heads, I can keep my distance and get sharp shots with a nice shallow dof, eventhough it's a f1.4 lens I prefer to use at least f2 or 2.4 when possible, I don't need extreme shallow dof but find it nicer to make a background a bit soft.
The minimal focus distance is quite large, I think around one meter and it's a very difficult lens to track anything that's moving as with the cropfactor it's around 135mm, for me it's mainly a point, don't move anymore and shoot lens.

Hi Noa

One of our local (well, over East) stores have a Sigma e-Mount 19mm F2.8 ....They claim it does everything so for me that might be a nice Realty lens as it's faster than the stock and most homes have darkish rooms too ... any idea if it works OK or would the Sony SEL16 be a better bet?? For homes I really do need AF but weddings I'll stay with manual focus.

It's also listed on eBay here : Sigma 19mm f/2.8 EX DN Lens for Sony NEX E Mount Camera | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Sigma-19mm-f-2-8-EX-DN-Lens-for-Sony-NEX-E-Mount-Camera-/400387435226?pt=AU_Lenses&hash=item5d38f36ada)

What do you think???

Chris

Hi Chris,

I have the Sigma 19mm and it seems to fill my need for a wide prime for landscape shots. It would seem to be ideal for your realty needs, esp. in cramped quarters. I need to spend more time with the Sigma, but have been busy.

I also have a vintage Nikon 50mm, 1.4 with adapter - very pleased with that also, esp. considering cost - quite a few on ebay.

Thanks Dan

I think I must get myself one..the extra stop or so will help greatly with Realty work. Does the Auto Focus work much the same as the EA-50 stock zoom?? I don't expect the camera or lens to be capable of focussing on white walls and ceilings so I use focus hold on those but because it's a quickie shoot the auto is pretty darn essential for other shots.

Chris

any idea if it works OK or would the Sony SEL16 be a better bet??
Sorry, have no experience with that lens, only tried my samyang lenzes so far.

Does the Auto Focus work much the same as the EA-50 stock zoom??



Chris,

I don't use auto focus much, so just did some quick tests here in the fairly dark office. In auto, the Sigma seemed slower to reach focus than the stock lens - .5 second +/- when refocusing. This could be a result of the low light. You might want to research this to be sure it will perform well in your application. I'll check this out tomorrow outdoors and let you know.

Thanks Dan

Appreciated!! a few seconds isn't a big deal with Realty ..nothing can run away ..I just figured that the extra stop in dark homes will assist me!!

BTW : Please add yourself to our "Who has an EA50" thread sinvce you are an owner!

Chris