Does anybody offer the facility to give clients copies of their work on memory sticks?

A lot of new Tv's have this facility and lots of people view on laptops/desktops etc.

This year I have a few projects where I am required to turn around multiple copies of a project (wedding and charity golf day) quite quickly and their preferred choice was 'Memory stick' for speed etc

Just wondered what your thoughts were on this?

NB It would certainly reduce my time trying to get the footage from HD to SD looking good on a dvd.

For the rest of mine this year, I'm going to try to offer one USB and one BluRay only, and see what happens. I would rather that my work be viewed in HD, and BluRay also has the advantage that you can store a lot more info on each disc, which suits the physical packaging I'm supplying the videos to clients in.

I think you should deliver a dvd anyway, not everyone has a HD capable tv yet, often the couple takes the film to their parents or grandparents and there you could still find crt tv's. I have been thinking about delivering a usb stick as standard with all my wedding packages, just raise my prizes to include the cost for the stick and have an advantage over some competitors. I"m only not sure how to deal with warranty, there should be an enclosure on the contract you have with the couple that if the usb stick dies, and they failed to make a backup, that they cannot hold you responsible for the loss. Also if stick dies before warranty is over (2 years here) they probably will send it back to me and I have to send it further to the supplier I purchased it from. That also means extra time and sending costs getting it to the supplier and back to the client. I have had a few stick die on me within the warranty period so I"m not that sure how much extra work that would take if the clients would have the same problem.

I have had a few stick die on me within the warranty period so I"m not that sure how much extra work that would take if the clients would have the same problem.

Me too. I'd love to offer stick instead of discs, or digital delivery via download instead of discs because it would save the transcoding time, the authoring time, the case design time and of course the production time. It all adds up.

However, everyone still seems to want it on DVD as well, so I'm not sure how fast we can really transition things. I think DVDs are going to be around for a while to come yet - unfortunately.

Oh, and getting branded sticks requires you to buy a few (like min 25), and unless they are fairly small that's a reasonable investment to make, so you have to be sure you're going to use them.

Contrary to popular belief that a memory stick will outlast DVDs, it seems the life expectancy of a memory stick is 10 years or less because the capacitors that hold the charge for the flash will gradually decay.

Digital backups are not something people should be taking lightly, yet so many people assume it will all be around for ever.

I still find that practically all my clients want dvd as it playable by just about everybody. I also offer their wedding on SD card and/or USB stick for HD quality. I have rarely been asked for BluRay and consider it a PITA to produce and only likely to be a comparatively short lived format. All of my 3d work is also offered on SD card and USB.

Roger

Great as an option but remember the wedding is not about how stunning your resolution is but how stunning the bride looks. As Noa has already said you have to supply as the initial media, a DVD that will play on a domestic DVD player and a 15 year old CRT TV cos granny and gramps still have one and it's critically important to the bride that her "Nana" can watch her wedding.

By all means give her a USB stick with MP4 clips on it ..in fact a condensed version on USB is perfect for the bride to take to her girlfriends to show off her wedding and THEN resolution and creativity IS important cos they could be future clients. If she is going to "show it around" then you want a convenient media solution. However the bottom line still is that you MUST supply the wedding initially on media that even the oldies are able to watch..that will earn you brownie points.

Supply just one USB and one BluRay Adrian ?? Granny and Gramps won't be too happy with that!!!

Chris

I give them a Blu-ray disc whether they want one or not & tell them to buy a Blu-ray player if they haven't got one. I bought a great Panasonic DMP-BD75EB-K Blu-ray player the other day for just £60. However They also ask for DVDs for their parents & grandparents. Just be grateful that take up of DVD players has been so good otherwise we would be getting requests for copies on VHS tapes for their more Luddite relatives.

The reason that whilst the uptake of high def ready TVs has been extremely high and the uptake of blu ray has been extremely low is that most DVD players have for several years made a good job of up-scaling standard def material; more than good enough for the mass market where content and entertainment value trump technical bragging rights every time.

Add to that the proliferation of high def content via satellite cable and download and you've got to wonder whether recent marketing moves such as cheaper bluray and packaging standard def discs within bluray disc purchases is a death rattle from bluray.

I always supply standard def DVDs and always add to this MP4 files at 1920x1080 also on disc. Creating the MP4's is a rendering timehog obviously, but the extra work at the coal face is not that much.

As others, I would not trust memory sticks at this point in time.

And yes I do have a high end home cinema system for my own use :- )

Pete

I put a Blue-Ray writer into my computer, I still as yet have actually burned a Blue-Ray, DVD is certainly the common denominator. A photographer acquaintance went the Flash Drive route bought 50 fancy wedding ones with logo and all that, I think he has most of them left!
I offer Blue-Ray and Flash Drive but everyone looks for DVD,so it'll be around for a good while yet.

I also mention it in my contract that I hold the data for a period of time, but that the client should back up their media upon receipt.

Rob how do you recommend your clients backup their DVD? IMO any DVD backup application will involve some ripping and re-encoding which will degrade the quality.

Pete

usually that's done by supplying a iso file to the client.

Hmmm - I have never handed over the ISO as I make a small (but not insignificant) extra income from clients buying extra disks - the couple from a wedding last year ordered an extra 15 copies!

Pete

For wedding I never get any requests for extra dvd's, I even supply the prints for the dvd's. Since I don't keep the HD and iso files longer then a year they are better of being able to reproduce their wedding video even after 10 years IF they keep a back up of everything. It's also very easy to rip a dvd and make a new copy from it if they want to do that. If they don't want that hassle they would come back to me anyway and let me provide the extra dvd's printed, so I leave it up to them to safeguard all back up for their wedding.

I havent had to help anyone to backup their DVD yet, so it hasn't come up, I think more and more people are tech savvy, but as Noa noted, i'd point them towards the creation of an ISO which is an exact image of the DVD and as far as i know there shouldn't be any deterioration in quality. Most people have computers these days or access to one and almost all computers have the capacity to create disc images.
I include it as a bit of advice on the contract, in the end it's up to the client to protect their product or not

I supply the couple with 3 dvds so that they have the option of having one for themselves and one for each set of Parents with on body printing and printed sleeves and cases.. I also give them full copying roghts to make as many copies as they wish and tell them that I can also make copies for them if they prefer at any time.

I actually get requests for about 40-50 extra copies per year.

Roger

Roger
That's exactly what I also do. Supply them 3 copies of DVD. If the specifically ask me (during the negotiations) for a copy of blue ray than I charge them some extra money for that. So far nobody asked me for a blue ray (just as well).

stelios

I supply the couple with 3 dvds so that they have the option of having one for themselves and one for each set of Parents with on body printing and printed sleeves and cases.. I also give them full copying roghts to make as many copies as they wish and tell them that I can also make copies for them if they prefer at any time.

I actually get requests for about 40-50 extra copies per year.

Roger

How can you give them full copying rights to the soundtrack that required PPL and/or MCPS?

How can you give them full copying rights to the soundtrack that required PPL and/or MCPS?Roger could be composing bespoke music for them:-) Alternatively he could be using only royalty free production music.

Roger could be composing bespoke music for them:-) Alternatively he could be using only royalty free production music.

And the ceremony?

And the ceremony?To continue playing the Devils' Advocate:-) No licence is required if no recorded music is used & any other music is very likely out of copyright e.g. Mendelssohn's Wedding March or anything from Hymns Ancient & Modern.

To continue playing the Devils' Advocate:-) No licence is required if no recorded music is used & any other music is very likely out of copyright e.g. Mendelssohn's Wedding March or anything from Hymns Ancient & Modern.

It's not a problem provided no copyright music is used and no copyrighted words are spoken etc. All well and good.

Maybe Roger can confirm this is the case for all his weddings....and how I find such brides :)

It's not giving them copyright as that is something that I can only do on the bits that are my copyright or out of copyright. What I actually do as I said in my earlier post, is give them full 'copying right', which is not the same thing at all. Copying right gives them domain over their own wedding, which means that they are bound by the came copyright laws as I am, but are free to use the work that I have produced for them without needing permission from me. It simply transfers responsibility to them and they will need to obtain any approriate permissions from MCPS etc depending on the use that they intend to put any further copies to.

It also meands that if any past clients take it on their own back to make multi copies which I am sure many of your clients probably do, there is no come back on me as I have fulfilled my legal obligations according to the terms of license. The client has officially assumed the ownership of my work from that point and requirements of 3rd party copyright are made clear to them.

They can of course come back to me if they would prefer me to carry out further copies for them.

Roger

Thanks Roger. That sorta kinda clears up where you're at, and I don't necessarily disagree with your position, but it 'is' something we all need to be aware of.

I know several local videographers than don't pay the PPL or MCPS and their attitude is "don't care, they'll never come after me".

You are perfectly correct on copyright Dave and many people seem to think it simply does not matter.

With another hat on, I was heavily nvolved in the music business for over 30 years on the recording, releasing and management sides plus dealing with various writers and publishing companies. I have also written songs and backing tracks fior many years, sometimes for other companies and sometimes for my own use. Nothing major, but for corporate and sports and promotion work where copyright free material is needed. I have even written simple guitar pieces for weddings before now.

One thing tha I have found out is just how complicated copyright can be and how many grey areas of interpretation there still can be.

Roger

This topic has completely drifted off course!

Back to the original question: I find that most of my couples want at LEAST one blu-ray. The DVDs go mainly to their parents. I'm getting more and more blu-ray only requests.

This topic has completely drifted off course!

Back to the original question: I find that most of my couples want at LEAST one blu-ray. The DVDs go mainly to their parents. I'm getting more and more blu-ray only requests.

As far as I can tell, not one of the bookings I have this year want Blu-ray and none of them have opted for the USB stick either! They just want DVDs.

Go figure...

Oh, and on the topic of memory sticks, I don't yet see an option within the PPL and MCPS for distribution on USB memory instead of CD/DVD/Blu-ray. Does it yet exist officially?

Oh, and on the topic of memory sticks, I don't yet see an option within the PPL and MCPS for distribution on USB memory instead of CD/DVD/Blu-ray. Does it yet exist officially?A USB memory stick appears to be covered in the FAQ for the Limited Manufacture Licence http://www.prsformusic.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/LM%20FAQs.pdf
Formats:
CD, cassette, minidisk, vinyl, DAT, DVD, Blu-ray disk, HD-DVD, VHS, CD-Rom or any
other physical format.

Thank Nigel. They updated that document since I last checked.

I was actually discussing this last week with a friend of mine.

In terms of content delivery, based on what I've experienced in the past 2 years, I've only delivered one project in BD format. Everything else is SD DVD.

I theorized that for the tech savy crowd, they've maybe bypassed Blu Ray and gone straight to digital delivery as the preferred method. I'm thinking primarily of things like NetFlix, Hulu, and USB ports on the TV kind of thing.

Of course, I have no actual data to back that up, but I know what my friends and I are doing, and that's the route just about everyone I know has taken. I only know just a couple people that have a Blu Ray player.

I may have to amend my stuff to include delivery on a thumbdrive, maybe in lieu of a DVD if they want it.

I already give them all the original footage on the original media (SD Cards and miniDV tapes)

Sorry if this has been covered and I missed it - but exactly what file format, container type, file extension and codec are you using on the USB stick?

I tried several file types tonight, including MP4, MOV and a couple of others and my TV didn't see any of them!

My experience is that most recent tv's can read mp4 without an issue, even my mpeg2 can be read on some but there are still new tv's, like these philips ambilight that can only handle divx avi files. I think if you would convert to a divx avi file about every tv should be able to read that.

Sorry if this has been covered and I missed it - but exactly what file format, container type, file extension and codec are you using on the USB stick?

I tried several file types tonight, including MP4, MOV and a couple of others and my TV didn't see any of them!Time to get a new TV?

There is no need to muck about with a USB stick. The triple packaging that you see for some movies nowadays (Blu-ray, DVD & digital copy) don't have a USB stick for the digital copy they just have a download link. That leaves it up to the purchaser to figure out what they want to do with the digital copy & USB sticks are yesterday's technology when you can just click on the download link & import the movie into iTunes.

Time to get a new TV?

Well, the question for me is always why should I? Since we're still not getting everything in 1080p, the TV still exceeds what is being transmitted! :)


There is no need to muck about with a USB stick. The triple packaging that you see for some movies nowadays (Blu-ray, DVD & digital copy) don't have a USB stick for the digital copy they just have a download link. That leaves it up to the purchaser to figure out what they want to do with the digital copy & USB sticks are yesterday's technology when you can just click on the download link & import the movie into iTunes.

I totally agree. But we're trying to figure out how to streamline the post production workflow a little and offering a USB stick INSTEAD of DVD was one option I was considering, since it saves the MPEG2 compression time, loss of HD, building main menu, chapters, case design, label design etc etc. It's not a 30 minute job to make a DVD ;) While the raw cost of a USB stick and tin is more than the cost of some DVDs, the time to make them is worth something, so the USB stick could actually work out cheaper.

I'm seeing more and more people offering USB sticks, but I can't quite figure out what the best format would be. It seems my TV only plays USB sticks that are standard definition! Doh!

I guess we're stuck with the DVD workflow for now, unless some one can tell me how they actually make brides happy with USB only AND don't have to handle support calls when they can't play them!

The problem with the downloads (we do provide them now) is that untold number of people seem to have amazing problems with downloads. When I look at the sever logs they often have 5 or 10 attempts to download the files (from the same IP, so it's not multiple people) before finally getting it. that has to be frustrating for them, and any time they are frustrated (download, DVD, BD or USB stick), your reputation takes a hit.

I wouldn't rely on the TV being able to play the file off a USB stick. More recent ones may do a decent job but many older ones won't even have a USB socket. Many other devices e.g. Blu-ray players, Freesat PVR etc can play HD MPEG4 files of a USB stick but your best bet is a dedicated standalone media player like one of these for just £26.99 (equivalent of $40 including tax) Xenta Full HD 1080p Media Player | Ebuyer.com (http://www.ebuyer.com/284514-full-hd-1080p-media-player-a8-f10?utm_source=google&utm_medium=products)

The downside for the client of delivery on USB stick is that they lose the convenience of the menu & navigation possibilities available with DVD or Blu-ray.

The downside for the client of delivery on USB stick is that they lose the convenience of the menu & navigation possibilities available with DVD or Blu-ray.

I totally agree. I'm not sure if this craze will actually take here of or die a death one people realise they can only really play them on their computers reliably.

What about the guys in the USA? What are your experiences of this?

I've been offering USB and SD delivery options for about 18 months, and always have an example with me when I visit new clients. If they are interested in the formats, I try them on their TV to see if they run ok. If they do then they can have the final work in Mpeg4 so that they get a mich higher picture quality than with dvd.

I find as Dave said, creating menus, chapters, writing to dvd, artwork, printing etc is time consuming and a PITA! I'm not convinced on the download route, as it is only possible for those with a good reliable broadband download speed and the right package. Certainly on the UK outside main cities I can't see that being reliable enough.

Roger

Well, I've been looking in to this a lot more. Maybe I need to forget having the USB stick play in TVs at all. Some of them support HD, some only SD. Some need divx and can't play mp4, others want mp4 and can't play divx etc etc.

However, maybe it makes sense to just given the the HD files on the stick and be done with it. Even give them a link showing how to burn their own DVD from it if they want. It seems trivial in windows and for older macs with iDVD it's equally as trivial. Shame iDVD is no longer available and some macs don't even have a drive anymore!

Still, it's an option I think I'm going to offer, either as an alternative to, or as well as, DVD and Blu-ray.

You don't need a USB stick to give them the digital files as you can just burn them to a DVD labelled clearly as a digital copy.