OK, so we've had the GoPro (2) for a while now, and just have not put it to good use....so for our first wedding of the season, this past weekend, we decided to give it a go. Either we did something wrong, although I am not quite sure how, as the menu/settings are pretty straight forward...or my expectations were just too high.

Now I know they do not perform well in low light...however, I feel like this chapel was very well-lit...big, wide open spaces, light cream colored walls,and lots of sunlight coming in (albeit through stained glass windows, but still a lot of light!) And the attached screen grab is what we received. Super disappointing, considering it was just dropped off to the side in hopes of getting a good shot, and turns out we DID get a good shot!

Now I'm not relying on this for anything...we shot with two other cameras, like i said this was just our first time trying it out. Is this "noise" what I should expect to see because I'm shooting indoors? To me it almost looks pixelated, and not like noise...

We shot in 1080 / 30p, and this grab is from the MP4 file. I did convert it to Apple Pro Res for use in Final Cut, and that looks maybe a TAD better, and it seems like Neat Video can clean it up a little bit too...but i doubt I will get anything useful out of this one.

I guess I just wanted to see if you all thought this was normal? Or if there might be something wrong? Just have seen a lot of great video, and heard soooo much good stuff, this was NOT what we were expecting.

pretty bad result ok!
I was going to get a GoPro 3 but instead spent a few more euros and got a 2 prosumer cams that just blow the GoPros out of the water as far as IQ is concerned, as far as i can see, all they have going for them are as adventure outdoor cams, they just don't seem to do too good indoors, I did read somewhere that some people were having some luck with taking the protective lens and that off, dont know how true it is tho!

Rob, this was shot with just the camera...no case or protective gear on it...so no extra "layer" to see through!

Hey, Rob, I'd be curious to know what prosumer camera(s) you purchased. I'm looking for 1 or 2 modestly priced cams that I could discretely place in the wedding venue and just let them run. Like you, I was sad to hear Katie's report about the GoPro indoors. It would be really cool to stash 4 or 5 of them around the venue, though editing all that multi-cam footage would present challenges of its own!! ;-)

Thx! ~TRW

Why not try something like an LX7. Small, complete manual control in video mode, amazing 1.4 Leica Summilux lens, stunning video quality. And it costs less than a GoPro. I used mine at Saturdays wedding, I will be using it a lot more in the future, it takes truly stunning photos as well

hmmm maybe the GoPro 3 is better?? That footage is disappointing, what a shame!

My initial plan was to have my main cam, a Sony NX5 and a B cam a smaller Sony that my partner would use and then something small like the GoPro maybe two or more of them static. However i found it difficult to see many examples of indoor footage, especially in low light conditions.
Also at the time i was researching them there was just way too many complaints which put me off them.

So what i have now (and yes at a good deal higher price!!) a Sony CX 410 like what they have here
Sony 32GB HDR-CX430V HD Handycam Camcorder HDR-CX430V/B B&H
and a Sony PJ760E Sony HDR-PJ760E Flash Memory HD Camcorder HDR-PJ760E B&H Photo
Couldn't get one without a projector!!! I do have a Canon G11 but i dont actually know if theres a time limit for video on it? Is there a limit on the Lumix? That might present a problem if you wanted them to run unattended.
Even though they are pretty small the PJ 760 is reasonably specced camcorder and could in an emergency act as the main cam. I'm sort of paranoid when doing events so usually will have a Canon 5D Mk III on hand too - just in case!
I'm happy with the low light capabilities of these small cams, not as good as the 5D! but these do fine on full auto with face detection, scene selection, spot metering/focus even has peaking and zebra

It looks like chroma noise to me & Neat Video or Red Giant Denoiser will remove it. You have little or no control over the GoPro settings as it's just auto-everything. Using the ProTune option gives much more control in post for adjusting WB etc

The beauty of the GoPro is that it's about the size of a box of matches & you just press one button & it's recording. Consumer camcorders are much larger. This shot from a GoPro clipped up in the Chuppah at a Jewish wedding in Finchley Synagogue would not have been possible with a consumer camcorder.

Nigel...I am going to try and clean it up with Neat Video...so far I only did a quick test with the demo, but have been meaning to buy the Neat Video plug-in for a while now.

Curious, what format were you shooting in for in that shot?

Hi Katie

My GoPro does a good job for me but you do need to keep it away from seeing any windows so I normally have my as a semi-aerial view camera. Just remember it exposes to what it sees and in your sample it "sees" a bright window in the back there. A really handy tool is a cheap tablet and the free GoPro app so you have a visual idea of the footage...Smart Phones work too but something like a 9" tablet gives you a nice big image to adjust the camera with.

Dunno about Nigel but I get better results with ProTune off as amongst other things PT also disables the noise reduction software in the camera...I shoot everything at 1080 25P and use the medium POV angle.

Chris

That shot is not typical of my results with the GoPro 2 either. I agree with Chris you appear to have been affected by the bright light in the composition. The Gopro can do much better than that but you have to be careful with its placement. Perhaps in future try to find a composition requiring less dynamic range.

I've also been using Protune but I'm starting to think its more trouble than its worth for my requirements. It makes for big files that are even bigger when you convert them to AVI-medium in Cineform. Then you will need to apply sharpening and possibly noise reduction both of which may substantially increase render times. Since the Gopro footage is only ever a few seconds at a time for establishing shots etc in my coverage I think I'll live with the standard rather than the Protune output.

The Gopro also works well sitting on a cheap ebay friction arm attached to one of your tripods or such like for an alternative view. You don't necessarily need to stick it on its own lightstand.

For comparable wide angle coverage the Canon 15mm fisheye works extremely well. I guess similar offerings from Sigma would do so as well. You could use a cheap small dSLR like the 650D and probably increase the HD recording time with Magic Lantern (i think a 650D version is imminent).

I've tried the Gopro app with a 10" Ipad and a Galaxy S3 smartphone. I find the S3 preferable because the Ipad can be rather unwieldy when you're trying to do other stuff at the same time.

The Joby Griptight mount works very well with smartphones:

GripTight Smartphone Mount for iPhone, Android, and Windows (http://joby.com/smartphones/griptight-mount)

It actually does er grip tight :- )

And I use one with one of these Hama suction arms in my car. Much better than the usual fragile stuff:

Hama 00004371 Traveller Flex and Suction Pro Bendable: Amazon.co.uk: Camera & Photo

The suction arm is good for a dashcam - so you can for example shoot a horse and carriage in transit.

Pete

I had heard all the chat about GoPro's for wedding backup footage and bought one once. i sold it again the next week I was so disappointed.

Instead I use a Nikon P310 which is a compact point and shoot camera that shoots HD video. I know it seems ridiculous to shoot video on a point and shoot camera, but I raerly ever use the footage from this camera.

I felt that this camera well out-performed the GoPro in anything less than full outdoor daylight.


Also, they come in at less than £200

I must confess that I have never used ProTune at a wedding. In my tests at home I can get a better image using ProTune then adjusting in post. As someone commented earlier you are only ever going to use a few seconds. I like it as a special effect 'Wow!' shot from an unexpected angle.

Sorry Katie but I can't recall what the settings would have been except 1080 25p. It looks like the medium wide rather than full wide.

I must admit I seldom use the GoPro at ground level ...it's always at least 8' up in the air or up on the balcony at Churches. Sometimes I don't even use the footage if the other two cams give me enough but I always have it running! It has got me out of trouble a few times already with MOB's and photogs blocking my main camera view and for me it's brilliant at Church weddings to cover people walking up to the lectern and walking back, a shot that my other two cameras miss.

Brides, bless their hearts, love an occasional wide view of the wedding as it shows the entire setup which they seem to love... so that often is cut in too just to make them happy. If I'm just working around the ceremony then I have a lighting stand in the aisle next to my A-Cam and hoist the GoPro up into the air angled downwards and brides seem to love the semi-aerial shot. Let's face it they will never replace the main cams but they can get shots (like Nigel's) that nothing else could and I always say with my Hero 8' in the air, let the photog try and block that camera!!

Chris

@ Clive -

Not silly at all IMO to use a P&S if one chooses carefully! Main thing is there usually is a 29 minute limit on clip length, so you have to watch your free run time, and battery life can be a tad dicey with a small camera (speaking for the TX100's I've dound useful!). I was impressed enough with the 1080/60p output from the (now older) DSC TX100V that I collected a few when they could be picked up cheap (REALLY cheap in some cases). The TX100's match up well and look very good, as long as they are in close range to the "action". I've also been fiddling with the RX100, although it seems to have a very different "look", and I haven't had the time to try to dial it in.

The cost advantages of some of the P&S cameras out now, along with very light weight (so it's easy to "rig" or set them up without a lot of "support"), small size (think "discrete"), and quite often very acceptable image quality open up possibilities! Sure, they shouldn't be your main cam for MANY reasons, but for a "fill" or cutaway... just one more "idea" that's worth consideration!

I'm going through my kit getting things ready for the upcoming concert season, and readying the GoPros for a hard life being clamped to mic stands shooting up between the tom-tom drums, or onto the end of a keyboard. I built power cables for the camera and Wi-Fi BacPac, and I'm leaving them in their cases because...you know...drummers.

I have yet to decide if I'm going to shoot them in standard or ProTune mode. Although with a 32 gig Class 10 card, both have plenty of space for a show, I want to fiddle with processing the video as little as possible, so even though ProTune can ultimately deliver better image quality, how much time do I want to spend processing it to achieve that? In my situation, folks will be overjoyed just to have the shot.

Chris, can I ask why you haven't simply put the wifi bacpac on the back of the Gopro and enclosed it all with the alternative back housing that comes with the bacpac; and used multiple batteries rather than power cables? The bacpac draws power from the cams battery once it has exhausted its own supply. also using just a Gopro tripod adapter and friction arm might make things quicker and tidier - especially if you find you need to change the shooting position at short notice.

Protune does not have to be difficult. You simply use the free Cineform Studio to convert the native files to easier to digest AVI's for editing in NLE's. The medium setting is fine. Cineform Studio talks to the NLE and the default appearance of the AVI's will be as if you had not used Protune. You can then go back in and kill those settings if you wish so that you are dealing with files that have no noise reduction sharpening etc or edit entirely in Cineform and output MP4's or MOV's as a final product.

Make sure though that you test for lockups in shooting as there seem to have been endless problems experienced by many users especially when using the new app with Protune and the Hero3. I have had the occasional lockup with the Hero 2.

Pete

Chris, can I ask why you haven't simply put the wifi bacpac on the back of the Gopro and enclosed it all with the alternative back housing that comes with the bacpac; and used multiple batteries rather than power cables? The bacpac draws power from the cams battery once it has exhausted its own supply. also using just a Gopro tripod adapter and friction arm might make things quicker and tidier - especially if you find you need to change the shooting position at short notice.
I do have the Wi-Fi bacpac and the alternative housing on them. I cut holes in both for access to the USB/power port.

I shoot concerts exclusively, and avoid using batteries wherever possible. These cameras are on stage, and running a power cord to where the keyboard or guitar or bass amp is plugged in is not a hassle. I'm shooting at least one two hour show at a time, occasionally two in a row, with no access to the stage cameras, and would never want to rely on any battery pack for that amount of time.

My biggest issue at a show is getting all the equipment packed back up. Battery packs have proven to be very prone to loss.

Protune does not have to be difficult. You simply use the free Cineform Studio to convert the native files to easier to digest AVI's for editing in NLE's. The medium setting is fine. Cineform Studio talks to the NLE and the default appearance of the AVI's will be as if you had not used Protune. You can then go back in and kill those settings if you wish so that you are dealing with files that have no noise reduction sharpening etc or edit entirely in Cineform and output MP4's or MOV's as a final product.
My market demands fast turn-around. Last season, I shot four two hour concerts in two days in two different cities, and finished four 5-camera edits in a week. So I pretty much just drag'n'drop from the SD cards directly onto my hard drive and into Edius. Sync, color-correct and start cutting. Grass Valley's slogan for Edius is "Edit Anything" and it is true. I can mix different formats easily.

I'll probably try ProTune on a date where I only have a single show, and not where I have two shows in a row. I can't wait for the version of App that supports a WiFi network, as I really need access to both cameras at once.

Make sure though that you test for lockups in shooting as there seem to have been endless problems experienced by many users especially when using the new app with Protune and the Hero3. I have had the occasional lockup with the Hero 2.
Lockup when shooting? When the Hero 2s enter service, they will be cameras #6 and #7 at one of my shoots, so hopefully I'll have plenty of other options. Were you monitoring the GoPros at the same time, and did you see the lock-up happen?

Ah, interesting.

I'm tempted to cut into my housings as well as i resent how much they charge for the skeleton housing. However the onboard audio is likely to be much better with the skeleton; not that you would use it but having a fairly clean audio track can matter sometimes when doing a sync with Pluraleyes. PE works great most of the time, the only times I have had problems with it is with some music tracks - for example it couldn't cope with some quite repetitive trad jazz on one occasion.

The initial conversion of Gopro Protune files to AVI using Cineform can be time consuming but it is of course something you can set up in the background. Straight out of the camera the files are likely to choke the computer especially when editing multitrack.

I have had occasional lockups with the Hero 2 but thankfully only once in the heat of battle. I was using Protune and controlling with a Galaxy S3. Tried rebooting, removing battery etc but no good. Then bizarrely it started working again. However the ambient light was too low to get usable results. Oh well!

Pete

Ah, interesting.

I'm tempted to cut into my housings as well as i resent how much they charge for the skeleton housing. However the onboard audio is likely to be much better with the skeleton; not that you would use it but having a fairly clean audio track can matter sometimes when doing a sync with Pluraleyes. PE works great most of the time, the only times I have had problems with it is with some music tracks - for example it couldn't cope with some quite repetitive trad jazz on one occasion.
I haven't shot any concerts with it yet, but I have edited footage, and the audio from the cameras on the drums was more than good enough for me to manually sync. If I have a problem and wish to drop the audio level, I'm sure a little bit of cloth tape over the mic will do the trick.

The initial conversion of Gopro Protune files to AVI using Cineform can be time consuming but it is of course something you can set up in the background. Straight out of the camera the files are likely to choke the computer especially when editing multitrack.
All my multi-cam edits are done on Edius, using its "proxy" mode, so I'm playing multiple SD files in the programs preferred format. The way its set up, I can switch back and forth between HD and proxy any time. And I've never had a problem getting full frame rate when I'm playing the edited version back in HD with multicam off.

I have had occasional lockups with the Hero 2 but thankfully only once in the heat of battle. I was using Protune and controlling with a Galaxy S3. Tried rebooting, removing battery etc but no good. Then bizarrely it started working again. However the ambient light was too low to get usable results. Oh well!
I suspect that ProTune pushes the hardware to the limit.

This shot from a GoPro clipped up in the Chuppah at a Jewish wedding in Finchley Synagogue would not have been possible with a consumer camcorder.

Hey Nigel, would you mind terribly if I stole this idea? Seems like a great angle for stamping on wine glasses.

What perplexes me is how to fix it up there so that there's no risk of it falling on the bride and knocking her out during the ceremony.{1}

Is yours somehow pinned to the actual fabric? Gaffer taped? Gorillapodded to a beam? Or are you using some sort of scissors clamp? (Avenger C1000 Drop Ceiling Scissor Clamp C1000 B&H Photo Video)


(Note 1: Jewish ceremonies seem dangerous enough in other ways. At my last one, the bride's veil somehow choked itself around the groom's neck when she circled him.)

Hey Nigel, would you mind terribly if I stole this idea? Seems like a great angle for stamping on wine glasses.

What perplexes me is how to fix it up there so that there's no risk of it falling on the bride and knocking her out during the ceremony.{1}

Is yours somehow pinned to the actual fabric? Gaffer taped? Gorillapodded to a beam? Or are you using some sort of scissors clamp?
Look at my pictures earlier in the thread. I have the GoPros in their cases and use three of their mount joints connecting to the tripod mount adapter. (http://gopro.com/camera-mounts/tripod-mount/?utm_medium=shoppingengine&utm_source=googlebase&cvsfa=2093&cvsfe=2&cvsfhu=313033&gclid=COyOwbKzprYCFdE-Mgod3HsAqA) That enables me to twisted it into nearly any position. I screwed a very short length of 1/4" threaded rod into the adapter and thread a Nano-clamp (http://www.manfrotto.com/nano-clamp) onto that.

I used a bit of blue Lock-Tite on the threaded rod going into the tripod adapter, and have the sort of knurled nut commonly found on flash shoe mounts between the adapter and clamp as well.

It is as rugged as all get out and is intended to clamp onto a drum kit. It should work for even the most enthusiastic wedding party.

Hi Adrian

As far as I can remember Nigel showed all the details on another thread here and I have an idea he used a Gorilla mini tripod and simply twisted the legs around a pole to set up the camera.

If I'm wrong, I'm sure Nigel will jump in and correct me ...If you search either here or in the POV cam forum you might find the thread and there is all the footage there too!!!

Chris

Chris is correct. I use the smallest Gorillapod I could find & then wrap the legs round the fabric & cross piece of the chuppah. It is a great angle for a shot of stamping on the glass. I don't have the WiFi BacPac nor do I connect up a monitor so framing the shot is a mixture of luck & guesswork but I have used this technique at several Jewish weddings now & always got a great shot.

This is the highlights video that still was taken from. It's actually in Finchley Synagogue in North London & the reason the shot looks so good with the GoPro is that the chuppah is under a large skylight so there is plenty of natural daylight. When there is plenty of light the GoPro footage is great but it can look pretty crappy if it isn't bright.

Jen and Neil on Vimeo

The go pro range are a one box, auto device that costs small change and capable of amazing pictures. Sure - they don't like low light, they don't like hotspots, but what are people expecting for budget money?

Only a few years ago we were shooting pro video with equipment that didn't like low light, and could manage on a good day 240-50 lines or so? We broadcast it, and used it to great effect - and the material is still out there in the high number sat channels. I seem to remember my Betacam kit costing HUGE amounts of money. The picture quality from the go pros - and I'm looking at the overhead Jewish wedding one in particular by comparison with 15 years ago is stunning! What do people expect from a pocket money camera designed for simplicity and good results?


My Gopro has (or had, because I've lost it somewhere) amazing picture quality for PoV purposes - I mount it on all kinds of gizmos, and rarely have a conventional angle out of it. If you want controlled images, and properly exposed pictures I'd suggest it's the wrong product - but a damn good one.

Chris is correct. I use the smallest Gorillapod I could find & then wrap the legs round the fabric & cross piece of the chuppah.
Is that one of those little things with the legs made of plastic ball joints? If so, I tried one once, and found them to be utterly untrustworthy. I'm going to stick with something that can actually clamp down onto a pole or cross-beam.

Just a follow up to my original post...Nigel mentioned Neat Video may be able to help...and I had always been meaning to get the plug in, just never have...until now. WOW. It's a dramatic difference, for sure. Probably not usable this time around, but that plug-in is great! Just wanted to share a before and after...

FWIW, If you really want to FIX some pretty ordinary GoPro (or any other budget cam) footage,
Try this technique-
Canon DSLR Footage 10-Bit Color Space Up-conversion Tutorial on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/19908622#t=3)
The results are truly amazing.

Just a follow up to my original post...Nigel mentioned Neat Video may be able to help...and I had always been meaning to get the plug in, just never have...until now. WOW. It's a dramatic difference, for sure. Probably not usable this time around, but that plug-in is great! Just wanted to share a before and after...Neat Video can rescue footage that looks unusable. You have to be careful not to overdo it or the image ends up far too soft & people look like marshmallows. The downside is that it takes hours to run. I haven't thankfully had to use it in a while & their latest version may be faster but I wouldn't choose to use it unless I was desperate. The version I have is for Final Cut & now that I am using Premiere Pro I would need to buy another licence for that. have been using Red Giant's DeNoiser as it's part of the Magic Bullet Suite that I already own & appears as effective as Neat Video plus it's licensed for Premiere & FCP. I just had an email that the latest version (1.4) is up to 3X faster as it offloads work to the graphics card.

Neat Video can rescue footage that looks unusable. You have to be careful not to overdo it or the image ends up far too soft & people look like marshmallows. The downside is that it takes hours to run.
And how! I took some footage, a 2 gig file from one of my Canon HF-S100s and it has been running for an hour, and has another four hours to go!

I guess it would be fine if I do a multi-cam edit, then select and process only the clips used after editing (which would be a major pain.) But as part of my regular workflow, it is pretty much unusable.

Chris is correct. I use the smallest Gorillapod I could find & then wrap the legs round the fabric & cross piece of the chuppah. It is a great angle for a shot of stamping on the glass.

Thanks very much for the tip.

Sorry to revive this old thread, but I have an update on this, and wanted to share in case anyone else is experiencing the same problems with their GoPro.

We had purchased ours last August, but never really gave it a good go until I the wedding I posted this original still from. Well, giving it the benefit of the doubt, I attempted two more weddings with it, one inside, and one outdoors, and even the outdoor one looked AWFUL! so I wrote GoPro and attached some sample clips for them, and the service tech helping me immediately responded that he would begin the process of getting an RMA and a new camera for us.

The camera was over compensating with the ISO, even when it didn't need to be...sounded like that's been a common problem, and he knew it immediately when he saw our footage.

Anyway, I was just glad I asked, I was thinking maybe my expectations were just too high, but turns out I'm not crazy after all :-)

Just wanted to share, if you're having similar problems, contact GoPro!!

That's awesome news! Thanks for sharing Katie!

Did you receive your new unit yet? If so, let us know if the footage looks any better now.