View Full Version : Information on the new JVC GC-PX100


Pages : [1] 2

Steve Mullen
June 4th, 2013, 04:20 PM
Chris, this is a new "GC"series. Seems like it would fit here with JVC's new single chip SD card cameras.

Last year's PX10 had the most detailed video I have seen. JVC has updated it to the PX100. Much more a "pro" camera.

Review, Hands-On Review: the JVC GC-PX100 Full HD Everio Camcorder | BH inDepth (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/indepth/video/hands-reviews/hands-review-jvc-gc-px100-full-hd-everio-camcorder)

Review, with videos, at: JVC GC-PX100 Video Camera Hands-on Review (http://www.thelongclimb.com/2013/05/13/jvc-gc-px100-review/)

Does 1080p50/p60 H.264 at 35Mbps. MOV wrapped has LPCM audio. MP4 wrapped has ACC audio.

Also does 720p50/p60 at peak 16Mbps (MP4) --OR-- I-frame (no P or B frames) at 35Mbps!

AVCHD 2.0 at 27Mbps for 1080p50/p60 available too. (17Mbps for 1080i50/i60.)

Also WIFI stream at 640x360 to phone/tablet.

Terrible PDF manual at: HD MEMORY CAMERA GC-PX100 Detailed User Guide | JVC (http://manual3.jvckenwood.com/c3z/lyt2615-002en/JEAWSYezlaodkr.php)

JVC Brochure at: Procision | HD MEMORY CAMERA GC-PX100 | JVC (http://procisioncam.jvc.com/#HOME)

I may buy one as I'm not into 24fps (although 24p can be obtained from 60p) or RAW.

Steve Mullen

Sareesh Sudhakaran
June 6th, 2013, 05:01 AM
This reinforces my belief that JVC makes the prettiest video cameras on earth. Thanks for sharing!

Steve Mullen
June 6th, 2013, 09:59 PM
I agree! May be why I ordered one. :)

I think the slo-mo is little of value to video folks, but after watching some sports videos on Utube, it really is useful.

I'm looking forward to running tests because most -- if not all -- the sample videos I've seen were not well shot.

Steve

PS: Looks like I-frame 720p is 25p or 30p. Must be designed for iMovie which can't do 50p/60p. But, the softer 720p and the lower frame rate could make a nice film look. Great for the web.

John Nantz
June 10th, 2013, 11:52 PM
Just came across this new JVC model and it looks rather interesting. While everything I've read about it talks about it being a "sports camera" or that JVC is "targeting coaches and players", I can see other uses for the fast frame-rate capability. Slow-motion can provide interest to regular speed videos as well as fulfill the need for when there is fast moving subject matter, such as waves on the water (I'm thinking video taken from, or of, a boat for example).

The f/1.2 lens is nice, especially coupled with the large back-lit CMOS sensor.

The wi-fi capability is another interesting feature. For non-sports users, what can this be used for?

The versatility of the camera seems like it would be a good profit-center for a professional. By the time I figured out how to use everything it is capable of they'd probably be coming out with a new model.

Waldemar was looking for a HD7 replacement camera - maybe this could be it?

Steve Mullen
June 13th, 2013, 03:00 AM
Just got mine.

Best looking $900 camcorder -- ever.

At +12dB gain with 100W lamp -- recording is at the same brightness as one's eye sees the room. It can go to +18dB.

AWB renders flesh EXACTLY as it looks. No super saturation or red push. (Some might not like this look.)

Need to check how much ND filtering is needed in bright sun to keep shutter-speed under 1/60 with aperture at f/5.6 -- which like the 4K2K JVC is the limit. Same chip.

JVC, however, doesn't put a manual on the CD! :(

More later.

Steve Mullen
June 13th, 2013, 03:38 PM
Notes:

In brite contrasty light, PROGRAM mode chooses 1/2000 at f/4.5. To limit to 1/60th, a 5 stop ND filter is needed.

IDEALLY NO 100% ZEBRA SHOULD BE VISIBLE BECAUSE MAX. SIGNAL IS 108%, but your NLE may cut to 100%. Seems like -0.3 to -0.7 is needed to keep image from being recorded over bright.

Need 64X (6 stop) to "reduce" 100% zebra, by cutting an extra stop of light, creating a too dark picture at f/4.5. Thereby, allowing you to dial exposure to f/4 -- which is still a 1/2 stop too dark.

-----------------------------------------

Record Setup:

Format >> .mov (LPCM audio) / .mp4 (.mp4 audio) at 35Mbps (1080p60) or 16Mbps (720p60) video-only (H.264) or .mts (Dolby stereo audio)

Quality >> 1080p60 .mov (LPCM audio), 1080p60 .mp4 (.mp4 audio), 720p60 (.mp4 audio), I-frame 720p30 (.mp4 audio).

When AVCHD, (H.264) >> 1080p60 or 1080i60

MP4 / MOV is HP@L4.2 (H.264)

Industry compatible at 1080i60 AVCHD (.mts) or 720p60 (.mov). Camera can burn 1080i60 17Mbps to a DVD using a burner.

----------------------------------

MP4 audio is 48kHz ACC LC at 128kbps.

LPCM = 16-bit at 96kHz!!!!!

----------------------------------

Operation:

Set MANUAL mode.
Set shutter to 1/60th. Locked.
Press Exposure button.
Adjust exposure for minimal zebra. Locked
Zoom-in while in AF. When focused, press MF/AF button. Locked
Shoot

--------------------------------------

Motion FX:

Press Time Control to select Slo-mo and Fast-mo rate.
Slight delay before recording.
Slo-mo and Fast-mo rate. Slo-mo and Fast-mo rate always .mp4 (H.264) with no audio.
To return to normal >> Press Time Control to select 60fps rate.

Serious aliasing because sensor lines are skipped to reduce amount of data read from chip in Slo-mo.
H.264 MP@L3.0 at about 4Mbps (360p) and 500kbps (176p).

Fast = 1080p60 at 31Mbps

Makes no difference what is defined for standard video recording.

------------------------------------------------------

FCP X:

Best to not analyze during import, but remove SILENT because silent .mp4 audio is recorded with Motion FX!

Slo-mo clips rendered to 1920x1080 or 1280x720 in background.

Frames of 1080p60 and 720p60 dropped on playback with i7 2GHz MB Air. I need to make and use Proxy for perfect playback of p60. For a project with scaled-up slo-mo I need to use Optimized PR422 at "Better Performance" for Playback.

------------------------------------------------------

Working with 720p30 .mp4:

HP@L4.1 at 35Mbps with audio at about 128kbps.

1 Ref frame -- all others formats have P and B frames with 2 ref frames.

NONE has CABAC encoding.

Plays fine.

Perfect for iMovie. Slo-mo is RT up-scaled to 720p.

------------------------------------------------------

iMovie accepts both 720p60 and1080p60 .mp4 and seems to export both 720p60 and1080p60 ProRes 422LT.

Steve

Steve Mullen
June 15th, 2013, 02:32 AM
Discovered that the Exposure Control dial -- in Shutter Priority mode -- can set a shutter speed (1/60th S) and also set exposure compensation. Why is this important? Because max signal is 108% one might like to bias the exposure darker so the max is 100%.

The adjustment is made to the aperture.

Also found that in User mode -- the maximum gain can be set. For example, to +12dB. In other cases, it seems AGC is used. The on-line manual is totally useless!

Tom Van den Berghe
June 15th, 2013, 02:39 AM
Hey Steve,

I hope you can show use some footage soon. I'm also interested in this one.

Steve Mullen
June 15th, 2013, 01:10 PM
You may notice I haven't said anything about image quality. That's because I've been puzzled about some soft images. Not what I expected. Seems JVC shipped it with digital zoom turned on!

So now I need to wait for a sunny day in MN. Hopefully this week.

My 64X ND filter should also arrive this week. I want to shoot at about f/4.

Getting used to the natural color after years of SUPER color.

I have yet to notice ANY jello! Even in slo-mo you can see none. This may make it a keeper.

Also see no edge sharpening -- which if confirmed means JVC's consumer division has learned a lot from the pro division.

Photos seem fine -- I've set USER mode to ISO 400 although ISO 800 may be OK too.

How does one check 96kHz PCM stereo audio other than to assume the audio will have less aliasing. Wonder why JVC did this? Utube does support 96kHz, but do all players? And, does anyone know if Utube supports 1080p60? Not a word on 1080p60, although they do support 720p60.

As far as slo-mo -- the JVC marketing push -- it looks fine with humans and animals. (But it's soft by the time you upscale to HD. Perhaps better to put in into HD as a PIP FX.) Objects like cars -- don't waste your time. Line-skipping, like Canon does for it's DLSR video, simply creates ugly aliasing on hard edges. Fast motion looks great!

Remain surprised that iMovie imports 1080p60 and 720p60 and passes it through as p60. Because it's H.264 and not AVCHD I suspect. Don't know what it will do with motion FX. Cut it to 30p? Of course, 1080p60 is useless for the web (except, I think for Utube) and BD. However, Toast will take 60p and make it 60PsF for BD which makes it 30fps. Toast sadly doesn't burn 720p60 -- at least not my version. Must check FCP X.

Ask any questions you want answered.

Steve

Mark Watson
June 15th, 2013, 04:52 PM
I found a demo model at BIC Camera yesterday and spent a few minutes checking it out.
It's very small and lightweight. I kept accidently hitting buttons with my fingers while just trying to find a proper way to hold on to it. Also, it's very plasticy.

Shot some 600 fps high speed video and it looked decent when played back on the LCD except for some weird orange fringing which might be from the fluorescent lights and the WB not set up right.

You can zoom while recording in high speed but image stabilization does not work. With such a light camera, I found it difficult to get video that wasn't shaky when zoomed out to 10x.

Would like to see how this compares to the Panasonic DMC-FZ200 ($500).

Steve Mullen
June 15th, 2013, 06:30 PM
I have the FZ100 and I too am curious about the FZ200.

Slo-mo and Fast-mo really requires a tripod.

I re-shot with no digital zoom. Much nicer as expected. Crisp, but edges are not sharp. Sort of a slight film look. To my eyes not as detailed as the PX10. From a new review: "The PX100 is capable of resolving 700 lp/ph horizontally and 750 vertically under full studio illumination. These results are worse than JVC's own last-gen PX10." Hmm!

More: "... when we brought the camera closer to the chart (thus zooming out and opening up the f/1.2 aperture), the sensor only required 1 lux."

Wish I knew which Gain mode they used. You have a choice of AGC and AUTO.

Like the first JVC HDV camera it has red chroma noise. Since bright red flowers are too saturated -- I suspect were the reds less saturated the noise might not be there. (The review does show REDs a bit over-saturated.) Could one live with it? I'm uploading a clip I encoded at 50Mbps to Utube. It will take all night from rural MN.

From the review: "Noise levels under studio illumination average 0.5%, which is competitive with Panasonic's X920 but inferior to Sony's PJ50V. The Canon G20 can only manage 0.65% noise."

Hmm again. Guess I've spent to much time with $6000 to $15000 3-chip pro camcorders. I expect no noise at all.

I lived in Tokyo about 20 years ago -- loved it.

Steve-san

Tom Van den Berghe
June 16th, 2013, 04:24 AM
thx for the update Steve!
But what is CA?

So the low light is great in your 52 inch LCD? I hope you see the video soon you made.

When you record audio in a loud environment? IS the audio still ok?
Loud audio like a music band on stage. Maybe put your radio or TV very loud to test it?

Because stage events is something I film reguraly.

Steve Mullen
June 16th, 2013, 09:35 AM
AhHa! I was watching ProRes Proxy which has higher noise level than the original. More noise is added compressing to h.264. Compressing to ProRes 422LT yielded slightly less noise.

So the camera is better than I first thought in the noise dept.

It still has shadow noise and lots of Chroma Aberration (CA).


UPDATE: after dark I watched what I shot today on my 52" Sony LCD via HDMI from the PX100.

WOW -- it all looks great! No noise and much less CA. Perhaps Apple's H.264 decoder is not so great?


PS: I noticed that during import into FCP X the 96kHz PCM audio is converted to 48kHz PCM. I also found the full 108% is passed through to H.264.

Steve Mullen
June 16th, 2013, 11:36 AM
Try this link: JVC GC-PX100 Project - YouTube

Set player for 1080p if you go to YouTube. "www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLFLuR6qDIo"

The 60p is converted to 30p. The 50Mbps to only 6Mbps so it looks soft.

I was shooting much with my left hand so some shots a full of camera jitter.

Tom Van den Berghe
June 16th, 2013, 12:02 PM
Hey Steve,

I watched the 1080p footage on youtube. I liked the sharpess and colors. Looked good to me. I bit shaky but you filmed with your left hand.

Could you please answers my 2 questions from before?
1) the low light was good? If you have time could you post a short sample of this with zooming in if possible.
2) Is there sound distortion when filming in loud environment?

Thanks again.

John Nantz
June 16th, 2013, 01:33 PM
Steve - I've got a few requests too.

First, if it isn't too difficult, could the clips be annotated with any information about the camera settings? The handheld, that is, not tripod, is pretty self evident :-) but some of the other settings would be interesting to know when we're viewing the clips. I can't say which settings because it would depend on what one is trying to show. Having it in the audio works too as at one point you said something like "this is with optical zoom".

For myself, I don't need the "sports" capability with 600 f/s but I might be able to use something a little faster than ~ standard. For example, I want to take some video from a boat and the wave action is a real moving target. Not that I want detail of the waves but that I don't want a lousy rendition of them, either.

This is from a couple weeks ago. Just had the boat out for the first time getting it's bottom painted and the topside waxed. My return trip was based on the poor wind forecast so I expected a motorboat show but this is what happened. The silver tarp is over our inflatable dingy as it is kept over the winter. Weather forecast was 8 to 12 knots and actual was 28 knots over the deck (but not in this clip as that came a little afterward while I had to hand-steer because the autopilot couldn't maintain course). The second clip was after the wind had moderated. 20130528 Boat return from PT on Vimeo Taken with my iPhone (see, they're good in certain situations. Wouldn't want to get my camera splattered with salt water!)

The above is not necessarily an example of what I want to film, although it could be. Mostly I'm looking for benign conditions (not white knuckle) that involve a range of lighting from severe blue sky to overcast and, of course, our normal rain. Lighting conditions from before sunrise to noon and "indoor" (for example, down below in the cabin). The deck is white gelcoat (~ nearly like snow), with shadows, waves with whitecaps, dark water. Essentially, the video conditions are absolutely extreme and I haven't even touched on the audio as that's a whole new story.

The viewfinder on the PX100 is of interested because I'm going to be taking the video from a moving deck and most likely holding on with one hand while holding the camera in another. In normal to bright light the flip-out viewfinder on my HD7 is hard to see and using the eye-level viewfinder that I thought would be good is like asking to go overboard because it is very easy to lose your balance. The flip-out one, on the other hand, works good in that regard - just that it is hard to see!

The light-weight aspect is very nice because I fly a lot and with the luggage/carry-on allowances (restraints) the light weight is good.

Cinematic effect: Would the f/1.2 PX100 lens be good for that? Speaking of lens, who is the prime manufacturer?

This PX100 appears to be a good bang for the buck.

Steve Mullen
June 16th, 2013, 04:04 PM
I shot some audio, but first I'm trying to get 60p via the internet.

Putting 1920x1080p60 into a 1280x720p60 project yields a 720p60 movie -- which can go to a BD. The downscale looks VERY good.

Also found exporting to uncompressed 10-bit 422 yields a movie without noise.

Now trying to upload to Vimeo. Then I'll try Utube.

Then I'll try to answer your questions.

UPDATE: Neither service supports 60p for free. Only 24p and 30p. YouTube re-encodes using H.264 but the audio is only 44.1kHz. Vimeo re-encodes using AVC and the audio is correct at 48kHz. But their re-encode data rates are terribly low at about 3Mbps.

Interestingly, both Utube and Vimeo recommend uploading using 30Mbps to 50Mbps for HD.

A short 720p30 video: "http://vimeo.com/68498600" AND "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykw6M5waixY" New Project - YouTube

Steve Mullen
June 17th, 2013, 11:52 AM
JVC GC-PX100 shooting 1080p60 at 35Mbps with 96kHz LPCM 16-bit audio in a MOV wrapper. During import into FCP X 96 is converted to 48kHz.

FCP X Share via a defined two Compressor presets. One downscales 1080p to 720p and reduces 60p to 30p. The video is encoded as H.264 at 35Mbps while the audio is 48kHz 320kbps ACC. Then the file is uploaded to YouTube. Plays at maximum 720p30.

The other takes 1080p and reduces 60p to 30p. The video is encoded as H.264 at 50Mbps while the audio is 48kHz 320kbps ACC. Then the file is uploaded to YouTube. Plays at maximum 1080p30.

This is alternative to simply Sharing to YouTube and/or Vimeo. This easier procedure creates only a 10Mbps 720p30 encode. A 1080p30 alternative is available.

Blu-ray is created directly from FCP X via a Share.

For playing on a computer, a Share via a 8-bit 422 uncompressed provides the cleanest video with 48kHz PCM audio. This will provide 1080p60 video.

More videos coming.

PS: Turns-out the loss of quality as frame rate is increased really begins at 300fps. I'm going to retry 120fps and 240fps.

Steve Mullen
June 18th, 2013, 12:40 AM
I can't say which settings because it would depend on what one is trying to show.

I've been thinking about settings after the review gave the PX100 bad marks for its menu system. The primary set-up is done once -- I only shoot 1080p60 MOV.

There are manual controls for selecting PASMU. In S, another knob dials in a shutter speed 1/60th. (I use a 64X ND filter in bright light.) This enables the camera to set the aperture.

Alternately, to control DOF, in A, a knob dials in aperture. This enables the camera to set the shutter speed. (I use a 64X ND filter in bright light.)

And, in PASU I can also dial in Exposure bias.

The auto gain works fine but I have User Mode set to +12dB were I need to set a fixed reasonable gain. To lock exposure, I use M mode.

The AF is great as you can see in my examples. But, I will soon try the MF RING -- a rare feature!

I trust the AWB. The audio has a limiter and I have "VU" meters to watch.

The only menu item I need sometimes is Wind Filter, but with the optional mic that has a muff I wouldn't even need that.

For photos, I set the primary settings once. User is assigned ISO = 100 (wish there was a 200) but I may find 400 is fine.

Remember the camera has very high native sensitivity. S control motion blur. A controls DOF. So far I leave Flash in Auto.

Then there is the Time control button.

I do use the menu to format a card.

So what I'm getting at, is that for gun&run I really don't use any menus. On a tripod, I might feel free to use more -- like to enable Focus Assist when using MF. But, I have chosen the color and see no reason to change it.

I was always a fan of Sony's One Touch AF. So on the PX100, I leave it in AF, zoom to subject, and press the MF/AF button once to lock focus.

I love the articulating LCD, but wish it had a top mounted Start/Stop button because I like to hold the camera near my body and shoot low -- like I did with the NEX. And, the NEX didn't have a power zoom.

Steve Mullen
June 18th, 2013, 08:08 AM
List of four YouTube Movies -- explanation provided with movies.

JVC GC-PX100 1080p60 via FCP X SHARED plays as 720p30 -- long Project
JVC GC-PX100 1080p60 via FCP X SHARED plays as720p30 -- long Project - YouTube



JVC GC-PX100 1080p60 via EXPORT from FCP X -- long Project
JVC GC-PX100 1080p60 via EXPORTED from FCP X -- long Project - YouTube



JVC GC-PX100 1080p60 via SHARED from FCP X -- short Project
JVC GC-PX100 1080p60 via SHARED from FCP X-- short Project - YouTube


JVC GC-PX100 1080p60 via EXPORT from FCPX -- short Project
JVC GC-PX100 1080p60 via EXPORTED from FCPX -- short Project - YouTube


UPDATE: This is alternative to simply Sharing to YouTube and/or Vimeo. This easier procedure creates only a 10Mbps 720p30 encode. A 20Mbps 1080p30 alternative is available.

John Nantz
June 19th, 2013, 11:56 AM
Steve - thank you for all the great details and the test shots. While I look at the one video with the red Begonia I'm puzzled as to why it appears to be either out of focus or over saturated with color. The one bloom that is the least distinct does appear to be closest to the camera while the other blooms and their leaves behind it appear to be more detailed.

Is that what we're seeing, a depth-of-field effect? Or is the red color over emphasized? Or both?

Steve Mullen
June 19th, 2013, 01:55 PM
Over saturated in the YouTube compressed footage.

After much experimentation I realized that 1080p60 is a lot like 4K2K -- what do you do with it?!?

I decided to put 1080p60 into 720p60 Projects. It will be down-scaled to 720p60 -- which is legal on Bluray discs. YouTube will then convert 60p to 30p. This is much easier to stream than 1080p30.

Also, 1280x720p fits on more computer screens.

For playing on computers I'll export to uncompressed 422 8-bit. VERY low noise -- essentially a copy of the original.

But, what about the full 1920x1080 pixels?

Please read: Shooting Quad HD for HD projects | Cameras & Lenses content from Broadcast Engineering (http://broadcastengineering.com/cameras-amp-lenses/shooting-quad-hd-hd-projects?page=1)

Instead of 2160p60 video think 1080p60.

Both FCP X and iMovie do these FX very well. Look at the final zoom in on the video I'll soon post. It's a Ken Burn zoom.

http://youtu.be/rWQ45HxWk8A

Steve Mullen
June 20th, 2013, 10:26 PM
Could you please answers my 2 questions from before?
1) the low light was good? If you have time could you post a short sample of this with zooming in if possible.

2) Is there sound distortion when filming in loud environment?


Max. sensitivity is 1lux so it's very sensitive.


If you look at the sound test video I did at +6db -- there was no distortion.


My ND filter arrived. In bright overcast, in Manual at 1/60th second, the aperture was f/2. Exactly what I wanted. Should be about f/4 to f/4.5 in bright sunlight.


So far I've been using OIS. There are two additional modes:

AIS (video mode only): Reduces camera shake more effectively when shooting bright scenes on the wide angle end.

ENHANCED AIS (video mode only): The area of correction is greater than that in “AIS”. Camera shake can be reduced more effectively even when recording is performed by zooming from wide angle to telephoto, or moving together.

When “AIS” is set, the angle of view becomes narrower. In “ENHANCED AIS”, the angle of view becomes even narrower than “AIS”.

So these two modes add EIS to OIS. Will test whenin stops stemming in MN.

Steve

Mark Watson
June 22nd, 2013, 04:52 AM
Steve,

Thanks for all the play-by-play reporting on this camera. I went to a different store to test out this camera some more and got some good help from the staff. First thing was to switch the menu to English. So anyways, we figured out how to turn on the image stabilizer and that made all the difference. I also found that the display models don't have the battery installed and that was why it was feather light. I couldn't decide whether to get the JVC or the Panasonic DMC-FZ200, so I went back a third time and decided to get both. Unfortunately, the Panasonic model they had does not have any English menu system, but I found I could go to their Yokohama branch and get one. So, today I got the JVC and tomorrow, I hope to get the Panasonic, even though they really gouge me for that version, about $720 USD. I had to pay about $1200 for the JVC. I got an extra battery and a ND2 filter. Didn't get to do any side by side testing with my other high speeds (Casio EX-FH25 and Nikon P510) as the daylight ran out. Now, what kind of bag to put this in???

Steve Mullen
June 22nd, 2013, 10:58 PM
Hi Mark,

Glad you got both cameras. Please join in the reporting. I can report a huge storm with trees down and power out. Unfortunately, all occurred in the middle of the night.

Today, late, we got sun so I could check 64X ND filter. Worked perfectly. 1/60th@ f/4.5 to f/5.0 was perfect.

Also reshot @120fps and 240fps. Still looked bad upscaled to 1280x720. I think slo-mo must be kept in a PIP FX at its actual resolution..

PX100: 720p60 with 60fps-120fps-240fps then 64X ND filter; plays at 720p30 - YouTube


Here's a clip where the slo-mo is not upscaled. No better.

http://youtu.be/un-i0o8VRWA


Sports analysis yes -- HD slo-mo -- no way.

John Nantz
June 23rd, 2013, 01:49 PM
Hi Steve - that's some informative testing. By the way, you've got some pretty good-sized trees around there so it's no wonder there are power outages when storms roll through.We get our share here, too. Electrical power and trees with wind storms don't mix very well, hence the generator in the garage.

What is the chance of getting a photo posted of the red flower so we can see what it looks like without the YouTube processing involved? I'd really like to know what it looks like in real life without their digital re-processing.

With regard to the slow motion, this is something that could really add in a certain situation. For example, maybe in wedding videos for a few seconds when the bride walks down the aisle, or maybe when the ring gets slipped on her finger, the kiss, ..... One would need a B-roll camera though. Instrumental videos - guitar player plucking the strings, that sort of thing. There would have to be a balance between the slo-mo speed vs the quality of the video but in some cases a lesser quality could be acceptable.

It would be interesting to know how much of the cost is due to the slo-mo capability. JVC doesn't list a model "below" the PX100 that uses the same body. I really like the shape and control features of the camera and of course the price. The 60p is something that with boating videos that show wave action would be very desirable.

The viewfinder has a built-in shield but it is not rotateable so I'm not sure how the tradeoff would be. I often rotate the flip-out viewfinder so I can see it better but if there is a shield then maybe that would work just as well.

Just rambling on here .... thanks again for the informative test shots.

Mark - $1200 for the JVC in Japan??? How does that happen? Geeze... you'd think it would be cheaper!

Mark Watson
June 23rd, 2013, 05:02 PM
Electronics are more expensive over here. I bought my Canon 70-200mm F/2.8 L IS in Thailand for $1800. Five years later, it's still priced at $2700 in Japan, where it's made. I didn't want to go the third-party route this time and have someone else repackage my camera and ship it to me. If it has lithium-ion batteries, it can't be shipped over here. I've just been doing some testing of the camera yesterday. I got it because the zoom can be used while recording in high speed mode. That works fine. The LCD shade can be removed, but it's a nice feature to have. One thing against the camera is that if you shut if off and then back on, the high speed mode you were in is not retained and it will revert to normal speed video.So you have to press the time control button, rotate the little wheel to select the frame rate, then press SET. Even though the resolution is the same at 120 and 240fps, it looks to me like there's some image quality loss when going up to 240. Not sure yet, need to do some more testing. I'm about to go on a long trip and will have limited internet. I'll post some footage when I get a chance. Wish it had a LANC remote connection.

Steve Mullen
June 23rd, 2013, 06:33 PM
NOTES:

FCP 6 does not support 1080p60 Sequences. MP4 audio must be rendered -- and not in background. The 96kHz audio is accepted. Bottom-line shoot 720p60 MOV. Because it uses YCrCb it cuts signal above 100%.

Avid Media Composer 6 does not support 1080p60 Sequences. The 96kHz audio is accepted. Bottom-line shoot 720p60 MOV. Because it uses RGB it does not cut signal above 100%. AMA (native MP4 editing) works for both MP4 and MOV. But, playback is not good on an AIR because of MP4. Transcode to DNxHD works fine and plays fine, but takes lots of time.

iMovie 11 does not support officially p60. Video at p60 will be passed through, but during an FX the frame rate drops to p30. FX look fine, however, The 96kHz audio IS accepted. Because it uses RGB it does not cut signal above 100%.

FCPX is the winner. Shoot 1080p60 or 720p60 MOV. Create and view Proxy. Export 1080p60 or 720p60.

FREEZE FRAME OF FLOWER:

Steve Mullen
June 23rd, 2013, 07:14 PM
Avid Media Composer 6, because it supports 720p60 Sequences, 96kHz audio, and has AMA, is my second choice NLE for a fast computer. Transcode of AMA clips to DNxHD clips takes lots of time, but can be done at night.

=======================================

iMovie is still wonderful because it's so fast. Shoot 1080p60 and, when needed, Pan&Scan, to 720p60. Remember, there is NO rendering -- ever! (Of course, going to YouTube requires an encode, but not to 8-bit 422 uncompressed -- where you can define the frame rate to p60.)

Steve Mullen
June 24th, 2013, 01:09 AM
WOW!

120fps and 240fps can be made to look OK!

Minimal aliasing. Still a bit soft, however.

"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zh1xTzf4wO8" to view a 720p version.

120fps-240fps Project - YouTube

Steve Mullen
June 24th, 2013, 11:33 AM
WOW AGAIN: Slo-mo can be made to look less soft. Compare this 120fps with the previous sample.

http://youtu.be/LfgXNYHJ_VY


Also see: GC-PX100 Sports Coaching Camera - YouTube



========================================

Video gain -- AGC vs AUTO:

AGC > shutter-speed can go to 1/60th. (If already set to 1/60th, no change.) Gain is auto-added to +18dB.

AUTO > shutter-speed to 1/30th. Gain, if needed, is auto-added to +18dB.

=========================================

WHIP PAN -- None, or very little Rolling Shutter in frame grab.

Steve Mullen
June 25th, 2013, 01:39 AM
After my outdoor tests, the PX100 is a keeper -- especially now that I know how to coax much better slo-mo from it.

Will now do indoor and low-light.

And, more slo-mo and time-lapse.

==========================================

Then WIFI: DOUBLE WOW.


2013 JVC Everio Wi-Fi: Overview - YouTube

JVC Tutorial: Setting up Direct Monitoring - YouTube

2013 JVC Everio Wi-Fi: Setting Up An Access Point - YouTube

JVC Tutorial: Setting up Video Email - YouTube

2013 JVC Everio Wi-Fi: Monitoring & Scoring - YouTube

FANTASTIC TEK: 2013 JVC Everio Wi-Fi: QR Codes & Home Detection Monitoring - YouTube

WIFI XFER OF SD CARD CONTENTS: 2013 JVC Everio Wi-Fi: Transfer & Storage - YouTube



Could A/V port -- video out pin -- be LANC during recording? Bet not. But, on some JVC cameras it controls a Pan&Tilt base. Probably using audio tones.

Sent my first video mail -- anyone traveling needs this camcorder. See pix below.


Steve

Steve Mullen
July 3rd, 2013, 10:20 PM
I've checked out all the WiFi modes and work as they should.

Very much the same technology of the pro HM150. The only thing missing in the PX100 is live streaming--which from my experience with the 650 requires a solid LTE connection.

Switched to iMovie for PX100 editing from FCP X because the clarity of the slo-mo seems much better.

Slo-mo isn't just for sports! Here's how slmo-mo can be used with birds that simply have some fast movements:

2nd July Project - YouTube



Here's a link to the new pro 2160p camcorder with the Nikon F-mount.

Google Translate (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww3.jvckenwood.com%2Fdvmain%2Fjy-hmq30%2Findex.html)

Steve Mullen
July 10th, 2013, 10:09 AM
By accident I found iMovie to produce better quality slo-mo (image upscaled to 720p) than FCP X. This got me to using iMovie again after a year with FCP X. Surprise -- with the "pro" functions added to FCP X it has gotten more complicated and it doesn't play H.264 as well (unless you background render a proxy) as does iMovie (which is always realtime). Specifically, iMovie plays 1080p60 fine on a MBP AIR!

Once again I found iMovie simpler, faster, and easier editing. But, I missed the precision Mark IN/OUT trimming and the JKL functionality of FCP X. And, from the Media Composer, I missed EZ 3-point editing.

After much research I was able to document ALL these functions for iMovie. Therefore, I added this material to my "iMovie 11 Editing Guide."

If you use iMovie -- and especially if you have become less enchanted with FCP X -- try the new version of my eBook. Then, please send email with your feedback to me.

PS 1: iMovie supports placing the Viewer on an HDTV via HDMI which provides much more editing real-estate on a laptop.

PS 2: With the PX100 be sure to shoot H.264 video with ACC audio -- not 96kHz LPCM for use in iMovie.

Thank you, Steve

Steve Mullen
July 11th, 2013, 11:43 PM
Finally my "low light" tests:

ALL SHOT AT 1/60th Second.

0dB gain, +6dB gain, +12dB gain, +18dB gain,and AGC which I assume is +24dB when at max gain.

The remaining 5 shots are AGC with 200W of light:

1) Pan in kitchen at wide.

2) CU of bottle as noise & chroma check since AGC would be at maximum.

3) Zoom out showing light gain at full Wide.

4) Zoom in showing light loss at full Tele.

5) Final kitty shot at wide.

LESSONS:

A) Do not shoot with low gain in low light.

B) Underexposed shadows have horrible noise.

C) Add light to dark shadows -- letting them go to black as one might with other cameras is not a good idea with the PX100.

D) Strangely, noise becomes lower as gain is increased to be adequate for the light level.

E) Simply always have AGC enabled. The camera will set gain to appropriate level -- nice feature.

F) Noise at +24dB is not too bad.

G) Shoot FULL wide in low-light.


Lo-lite Project - YouTube

Steve Mullen
July 14th, 2013, 11:51 PM
CORRECTIONS:

1) Using FCP X I can't remember what I did to get bad results and better results. :-(

2) I'm now not sure iMovie yields better slo-mo quality. But, it got me to rediscover iMovie!

3) iMovie cannot accept 96kHz audio. Shoot MP4.


ADDITIONS:

1) Because one can't set Project resolution when using iMovie, the first video clip of a project with slo-motion must be 1280x720.

2) The "noise" in my video at low light levels and at low gain is not "video" noise. I've seen this type of black crud noise when I mess with a gamma curve. I don't know what JVC was trying to accomplish. Maybe force dark shadows to full black to minimize noise and blocking. It certainly didn't work for me.

AGC, on the other hand, seems to actually control gain in proportion to the need to generate a signal that meets a MIN & MAX standard. By using what I assume is +24dB gain, shadows generally do not go dark and so they aren't converted to black crud. BUT, if you watch closely, using AGC as the lens zooms in, video noise and blocking does increase. (The darkest areas become crud.) Likewise, panning to a darker area in the kitchen causes video noise and blocking to increase.

Thus, the overall scene must be evenly illuminated for AGC to work. And not only must you stay Wide you must remember never to zoom in. The former I suspect limits creative lighting, i.e. mood lighting. OK -- it doesn't really! You must light the "dark" areas like film so noise and crud are never introduced. This becomes the shadow tone. The highlight tone must be about 6 stops brighter.

3) There is an instant Menu that works while shooting. Gain, however, is NOT on it!


TO DO:

1) AVCHD 1080i60 to YouTube and to both 1080i and 720p60 BD.

2) Time-lapse.

3) 240fps triggered by hummingbird coming to feed. Will the tiny bird be able to trigger the PX100?

4) I will take the camera up in a light plane to test the two stabilization modes: OIS and OIS+EIS. Can I fly and shoot?

Steve Mullen
July 22nd, 2013, 03:58 PM
Only have had time to shoot additional 240fps video. Putting it in an iMovie PIP works nicely as does panning with moving subject. Still soft, however, as one would expect. TIP: increase contrast and saturation of slo-mo video.

Share as 720p:
(15) Slo-mo in 720p Project - YouTube

Share as 1080p:
(16) Slo-mo in 1080p Project - YouTube


Back to 1080p60 -- An out of tune band and my `84 Bertone X1/9:
Freeport MN Parade 1080p30 (PX100) - YouTube

Fairly accurate, for those who live in MN, AWB skin tone.

VERY little rolling-shutter on speeding car:

Mark Watson
August 3rd, 2013, 10:00 AM
Steve, it sounds like you are satisfied with the camera's performance. My experience has been the opposite, unfortunately.

First off, my ONLY reason for getting this camera was for the high speed, and specifically for the ability to zoom while recording. I couldn't care less about any of the other modes of this camera.

Now, I have shot some comparisons, literally side-by-side on a special tripod adapter, with my Casio EX-FH25 and also the Panasonic DMC-FZ200. In short, it's crap. The footage is just so muddy looking. Like you said, it could be acceptable for PIP, but that's not my intended use. So I have absolutely no use for this thing. I hoped to get something comparable to the Casio, but this really comes up short.

I have fiddled with the settings and have even tried different rendering settings to see if there was hidden quality in the footage. No joy - made no difference overall. I have not one single clip I wouldn't be embarrased to release on the public from this camera.

I think I paid $1,200 for it in Japan. It's the version without WiFi (model number GC-P100B), but identical in all other ways. It appears to me that the reported resolution in HS mode is not what I'm getting.

Not too happy with the Panasonic either. It is supposed to have higher than SD resolution at 100fps (I got PAL version). It doesn't look as good as the Casio (640x480) either, but I need to test a little more to see if I can squeeze out some more quality or not. I think it's pretty much all locked in settings once you go to a HS recording mode. The Panny looks better than the JVC, but that ain't saying much. How the JVC can get a 4.5 star rating out of 5 is a mystery to me.

One thing I have yet to test, is the JVC is supposed to do HD quality at 1080-60P. If I drop that on a 30fps timeline, I should get decent -2X slow-mo. Need to check that before I put it up for sale.

So, once again, I'm back to searching for the next step up in high-speed cameras. Casio had something going there but sales weren't high enough and they dropped the EX-FH20 and EX-FH25 models.

What I'm seeing from Sony is the NEX-FS700, the PMW-F5, and then the dedicated HS cameras like the ones from Fastec. But we're talking $20,000 - 25,000 now.

Steve Mullen
August 3rd, 2013, 02:10 PM
From the footage I've seen of the Pana at 120fps, it is far better and more useable for creative work.

??????White-tailed eagle?FZ200 Hi-Speed(120FPS) - YouTube

The JVC seems best only for sports shooting. Which is its market.


But the real problem for the JVC is pricing. At $999, without the necessary $200 VF, it is more expensive than a BMPC. Of course, they don't meet the same needs -- the BMPC is low frame rate while the PX100 is high frame rate (which I prefer), but the image quality of the PC plus native ProRes 422HQ is substantially better.

And, with the BMCC now only $1999 -- there is yet another camera to choose from. Plus, the FZ200 at only $500.

All the Japanese companies may see the prosumers who bought their $1000 to $2000 high-end consumer camcorders move to other products.

The BMPC, which I'll soon review for Broadcast Engineering, can shoot 1080p24 and 1080p30 -- both of which YouTube supports as does BD. (60p distribution remains a problem -- so 60p typically becomes 30p anyway.) The BMPC offers 13-stops of DR via log into ProRes -- and DR is where most consumer/prosumer camcorders fail. Of course, you'll need to buy an M43 zoom lens, but that need not be too expensive.

Steve Mullen
August 5th, 2013, 01:59 PM
"Steve, it sounds like you are satisfied with the camera's performance."

Generally, yes. But, when there are dark shadows the camera fills them with what looks like black mold. In the photo below, the person's face has has a "beard" of this artifact. (He doesn't have a beard at all.)

It doesn't seem like simple noise. To me it looks like the gamma curve at the low-end is too low forcing dark shadows to black. "Dark" is in relation to "bright." So the artifact is not only present in low-light situations -- it can be seen in the very dark shadows of bright outdoor scenes. Thankfully, I've only seen it in bright light a few times. Note, this may not show-up when the camera is directly connected by HDMI to an HDTV. But, it does once in an NLE.

In all other image aspects, the camera is great -- unless, you really need slo-mo. The FZ200 has 120fps nailed. (You can use 1080p60 as slo-mo in a 30fps track -- if your NLE will support this.)

PS: Until distribution supports 1080p60 if you want to work with progressive video, you either work with lower spatial resolution (720p60) or lower temporal resolution (1080p60 that becomes 1080p30). With the PX100 it might be better to shoot 720p60. Smaller files and easier streaming from YouTube.

Mark Watson
September 1st, 2013, 12:53 AM
I shot some more comparisons with the JVC GC-P100B. I went out to a baseball park and shot some high speed clips with the JVC, Panasonic DMC-FZ200, Casio EX-FH25 and the Nikon Coolpix P510.

I found a few good things to say about the JVC.
The HDMI outputs clean video in record mode. Besides being able to zoom during record mode, you can also adjust the exposure level; over a range of +2.0 to -2.0. It shoots 1080-60P (but no 24P or 30P modes).

The DMC-FZ200 and the Nikon have an HDMI port but don't output during record. The Casio only has an A/V port, which I didn't test. The Nikon does not have a cold shoe or hot shoe. There's a GPS antenna on top where a cold shoe would be. So, mounting a sound recorder, monitor, etc is not possible.

I have reviewed the footage and can see where it might be possible to squeeze a little more image quality out of the JVC, but I feel like the resolution at 240fps is what's hurting it the most (640x360, 1Mbps bit rate). My better shots were possibly due to having the camera locked down on a tripod and not relying on any image stabilizing (which seems a bit weak in this camera), fine tuning the exposure level (use the dang zebra stripes and not the LCD), and make sure the subject is well lit.

NOTE: for some reason I don't get yet, the JVC has to shoot at 240fps to get 4x speed, while the other cameras get 4x at 120fps. Another JVC quirk or something with a technical explanation?

I wonder if it's possible to get anything better out of that HDMI output. I don't have a recorder, but if someone else can give some input here, please do.

I would think the Nikon, with its 1280x720 resolution @ 120fps would clearly outshine the others but I'm not getting any wow factor yet. Can't rule out operator error. (that white-tailed eagle looks very good) I might upload some test footage from this last slow-mo round-up if I can get something put together in the next week or so. I'm busy doing a non-paying project but it came with a nagging deadline.

That new release from JVC, the GY-HM70 had my interest. It does high speed at a set 300fps (so for JVC cameras I guess that's about 5x). Now, unless I go back up to the JVC Kenwood showroom in Tokyo and get a good play with one and can use my own memory card. I think I'll pass. The search for affordable (under $2,000) 4x slow-mo continues....


Mark Watson

John Mitchell
September 19th, 2013, 09:51 PM
Here's a link to the new pro 2160p camcorder with the Nikon F-mount.

Google Translate (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww3.jvckenwood.com%2Fdvmain%2Fjy-hmq30%2Findex.html)

That is a very strange decision by JVC - to use a nikon F mount that is..

You will not be able to use many other lenses on this camera as Nikon has one of the longest flange distances. Meaning any other adapter is going to place the lens to far away to achieve infinity focus. eg canon EF uses 44mm, Nikon F 46.5mm - you physically can't get the canon lens close enough to the sensor to achieve infinity focus.Moreover they made it a dumb mount so what's the advantage over something like an e-mount where there are a ton of adapters out there? Maybe I'm missing something through the translation - maybe it's a removable mount?

Bill Bruner
September 21st, 2013, 06:53 AM
...The search for affordable (under $2,000) 4x slow-mo continues...

Mark - have you thought about renting the FS700 when you need slow-mo? It's $429.95 for 3 days from Borrowlenses.

Cheers,

Bill
Hybrid Camera Revolution (http://hybridcamerarevolution.blogspot.com)

Mark Watson
September 21st, 2013, 09:09 AM
Bill,

No, I have never considered renting camera gear. I am on international travel several months out of the year and just didn't think it feasible. I sent BorrowLenses an e-mail to see what they say. If they will ship it to me in one country and let me keep it for a few weeks, then ship back from a different country, that would be great. I offered to give a deposit for purchase value, so I hope they can accomodate me. Three weeks rental of the camera plus the E-mount 18-200mm lens is about $1,500. Now I have to look at the manual and see what I can do in 120fps mode. I know there's a time limit (8 seconds?) on the high-speed recordings but not sure about whether the camera automatically adjusts to maintain proper exposure, etc.

Also, there was no mention of a shoulder strap. I kind of need that shoulder strap....

Thanks for the suggestion, Bill.

Mark

Alex Humphrey
November 2nd, 2013, 01:25 PM
Thanks for the detailed info! I was looking at this camera from the opposite view. a 35mbs knock about to import to 24p timeline in FCPX. The real knobs and switches with ND filter to bring to 1/48th or 1/50th in manual or at least shutter priority mode. How easy is it? Results? 1080 or720p makes little difference to me. I wanted this as a good fun B camera to my JVC HD110 with my 17x lens (breaths new life into my old JVC by the way) Dropped edge enhancment to almost nothing and looks sharper at it's fuzziest as the old 16x was at it's sharpest. This PX100 or top of the consumer line Canon might be a fun knock about B camera without going to a Blackmagic Pocet camera with lens for twice as much.

So questions.

1. ND filter to get 1/48th or 1/50th shutter? (manaul/shutter priority etc) possible with what ND?
2. 35mbs at 1080/720 60fps to drop into a 24p (23.98) FCPX timeline. best method?
3. For a 24p person how is this say vs a top end Canon consumer with 24p Native knee jerk reaction?

thanks

a

Glen Vandermolen
January 17th, 2014, 10:17 AM
How about a 4K version?


JVC 4K Camera for “Under $2,000″ on Display at CES 2014 (http://www.photographybay.com/2014/01/10/jvc-4k-camera-for-under-2000-on-display-at-ces-2014/?awt_l=7RSz6&awt_m=JkxX38LHnf62xu)

John Mitchell
January 18th, 2014, 02:49 AM
Unfortunately very few of the reviews for this camera look at anything but the high speed modes. I'd be much more interested in how it compares in anti-aliasing, moire and all the standard things that go wrong when downconverting fom high megapixel sensors

Steve Mullen
March 3rd, 2014, 08:19 PM
I didn't comment on other aspects of the camera's image because they were fine. What killed the camera for me was its push-dark-gray-to-black response.

The PM and I talked about a 4K version -- then suddenly JVC went dark to me. I suspect he wasn't supposed to say anything about 4K in summer 2013. :)

I'm now far more interested in the Sony for multiple reasons. Plan to pre-order one tonight. I came to DVINFO to see if there was a forum for it yet.

However, because it's also a hi-res camera, its OLPF may be set to high for video which is why demo footage aliases so badly. Thus, the JVC could back on my list -- assuming no camera hi-res function.

John Mitchell
March 3rd, 2014, 08:37 PM
sorry Steve - without going back through the whole thread what Sony are you referring to?

Mark Watson
March 3rd, 2014, 08:59 PM
Unfortunately very few of the reviews for this camera look at anything but the high speed modes. I'd be much more interested in how it compares in anti-aliasing, moire and all the standard things that go wrong when downconverting fom high megapixel sensors


I've ordered the Blackmagic Hyperdeck Shuttle to do some experimenting with this camera. I got the GC-PX100 for the high-speed video but if you had something in particular in mind you would want me to test for you, let me know and I'll try to accomodate any testing you'd like to see. I plan to shoot all modes and frame rates and see if I get anything better out of the external recorder, which should arrive in about a week.

Mark