I've had a couple of cancellations over the years but never 3 days before the wedding - I've had trouble getting in touch with this bride - not answering calls/emails and now she sends me a text message saying due to not enough funds she's cancelling me.

Contractually if she cancels within 30 days she has to pay 75% anyway.

I'm angry and have turned inquiries down for this date so am going to pursue it but I'm slightly worried in these days of facebook and twitter that it might be a case of 'nasty videographer sues hard up newlyweds' and any adverse publicity that might ensue!

Just to qualify that I had a loose relationship (recommending each other etc) with a tog a few years back - he started to get bad publicity on facebook and I lost 2 jobs due to his bad publicity.

Thoughts?

Pete

A contract is a contract. Maybe take 50% instead of 75% as a "goodwill gesture" but since you did turn other work down you'll still be out of pocket.

To give you 3 days notice is totally unreasonable (unless it's for death or unexpected serious issues), surely??

After all, you've been trying to contact her for a while/she has your contact info ...so she's had many opportunities "to warn you this was coming".

Glad I don't do weddings!

Is it possible to sell the bad debt to a collection agency and let them pursue it?

There is no point having a contract if you are not prepared to enforce it, but although I don't do weddings, and do not take deposits from my mainly business clients, if they order my services, and agree the terms, then within the week, they may as well have the shoot because they will get the full invoice cost, no matter what.

3 days would almost guarantee the County Court would side with you - however, if she has no money to pay you, then the judgement could be pointless - blood out of a stone being apt. Never seek a CCJ unless you are certain they can pay.

I don't know if it's too late, but why not agree to do the wedding with staged repayments - something monthly, rather than the big outlay?

Not much you can do besides sticking to your contract terms - send an invoice immediately for the 75% with a friendly/non threatening letter referring to the terms and conditions she agreed to - I'd go with registered post/ next day delivery as well as an email and text referring to it. Add that payment must be within 30 days of receipt of invoice.

It may make them think twice or they may call your bluff. I wouldn't pursue it through the courts if it was me - that type of thing gets around I'm sure.

Did you get a non-refundable booking deposit? When drawing up my own contract template I made this part of it - so at least if it's cancelled at short notice I'm getting "paid" for the day filming the event, but I do lose out on the edit fee. If it happens it allows time for other stuff though that's been on the long finger... taxes, filing documents, the boring stuff.

Question for you - what's a tog??

Sorry to hear about this problem. Our terms are payment in full 28 days before the wedding. It's never happened that we haven't been paid well before the event although I am at present chasing up one couple as their wedding is in three weeks time and we still haven't been paid although we have taken a £500 booking fee. I am not certain that I would go as far as taking them to court if they don't pay but we sure as hell won't be turning up at the wedding without payment.

You can try to collect, though be ready for a fight.

For the future, it's easier to already have the money.

This is exactly why our contract has staggered payments. 25% when they sign, 25% at set dates, and the rest the day of. If they cancel 30 days out, which just happened, I already have the 75%. Also, non of these are called retainers or deposits in the contract. They're 'non-refundable payments.'

The idea being the payments are made about the same time that the value of the date goes down. For me, around November and February.

Good luck.

I do take £150 booking deposit which is no-refundable but doesn't cover my shooting time for the day. Paul's right - no point having a contract and not enforcing it. I'll take Ryan's advice and send a polite invoice for the cancellation payment. Not sure I'd pursue it through court though.

I have her phone number an postal address (her email bounces) but she won't answer the phone but will contact via text. My other worry is If I land this on her and she thinks 'well he might as well film the wedding anyway seeing as I'm going to have to pay most of it anyway' - what an awkward shoot that would be - "here's the video guy that was going to sue me"

Very difficult one this is for sure!

Often people are embarrassed to give the real reason for a decision. Have you checked to see if the wedding itself is still on?

The wedding is on - I checked with the wedding planner last week (it's a venue I've filmed at before) as I wanted to make sure her phone number I was using is current as she was not responding.

That's a relief Pete!!

I find that my best way to do things is collect 1/3rd on booking (regardless of when they book) and then a second 1/3rd 2 weeks before the wedding ...if they cancel at the last minute then at least I have 2/3rds of the package for my effort. My final 1/3rd is due when the DVD's are ready for delivery ..they pay me or they don't get a delivery, simple as that.

I would like to get the full amount a month before like Nigel does but there seemed to be some resistance to paying everything up front without getting anything in return so I stick with the 3 x 1/3rd's ..I figure that if they have paid 2/3rd there is no way they will forfeit that and get nothing so they always pay the last bit.

In the last 10 years I haven't had any defaulters at all so it must work and sounds fairer to the bride...All my payments received prior to the wedding are also non-refundable but I do have a limited liability clause saying I would return all monies paid IF I cannot do the job (sorta got hit by a bus or suchlike)

Glad it worked out for you .. I had the same last season where a bride changed address and phones and forgot to tell me ..the wedding still went ahead and I got paid too!

Chris

No it hasn't worked out Chris - I only know the wedding is on because I checked with the wedding planner that her phone number was current as she wasn't taking my calls - she's still cancelled me unfortunately.

I do like your 'payment in thirds' idea though - I might adopt that :)

I'd do the polite note, but with a specific time to resolve it by.

When doing payments, I don't see much benefit to 2 weeks before. Consider when the date becomes worthless to you... that is, when does it become unlikely anyone else will take their date? That's when the payment(s) should be due.

If you do payments, just remember to put in the consequence/resolution part:

-Payment of $295 is due February 15th, 2014.
-All payments are non-refundable after scheduled payment date. Any payment made prior to required payment date is refundable until said date passes, in event of cancellation.
-Late or non payment is grounds for termination of contract, with at least 14 days written notice of termination provided by Robert Benda.

Hi Pete
Its happened to me three times the past 12 months, they just said could not afford it and video is a luxury for them anyway? Take me to court! So i did on one occasion and received just 25% of the money owed due to them making a sob out of work story...They now slag me of to everyone in a sly way... I am now asking for £250 deposit to secure the day then 30 days full payment from them before the date. I find that they do not want to lose the 250 so touch wood all good this past three months..Steve









Wedding Video Liverpool Photography Liverpool Capture Your Moments Wedding (http://www.captureyourmomentsweddingvideo.com)

I tried requesting "payment in full before the date" on one contract I sent out - as a tester... and didn't hear back from them for weeks. They had been very keen and ready to go, so I was confused. When I followed it up, they said it was that condition that worried them so they weren't sure what to do - pay or find someone else?

I get where they're coming from in fairness - I'd be wary of paying upfront for work that has yet to be done. After some re-assurance they agreed to pay 30% up front with the balance on the day - which is what my contracts for Weddings all are now, with final amount due on/before day of wedding.

But, editing won't start until full payment received - so if they want the film by the end of the honeymoon, they need to pay on the day - cash, credit card, cheque (but no edit starts until cheque clears my account!). Avoids any messing on the day.

I tried requesting "payment in full before the date" on one contract I sent out - as a tester... and didn't hear back from them for weeks. They had been very keen and ready to go, so I was confused. When I followed it up, they said it was that condition that worried them so they weren't sure what to do - pay or find someone else?

I get where they're coming from in fairness - I'd be wary of paying upfront for work that has yet to be done. After some re-assurance they agreed to pay 30% up front with the balance on the day - which is what my contracts for Weddings all are now, with final amount due on/before day of wedding.

But, editing won't start until full payment received - so if they want the film by the end of the honeymoon, they need to pay on the day - cash, credit card, cheque (but no edit starts until cheque clears my account!). Avoids any messing on the day.

Safest way to do it is 25% deposit, 50% on the week of the wedding (or on the day, handed to you in an envelope in the morning), 25% when the films are ready to post.

You can't do better than that to be fair ... any other way your setting yourself up to get burnt or creating doubts/trust issues.

In terms of taking them to court ... I wouldn't bother. They will slag you off which will effect business in the future. No thanks to facebook / twitter and online forums.

I always feel as if my contract is there to protect ME incase THEY decide to go to court because I messed up something. So I clearly have clauses written on it ... it's more of an agreement rather than contract.

We do 50% up front and 50% a week before the wedding. I've never had an issue with a bride not being willing to pay. It must be based, partly, on the region you are in.

My contract had full payment before the wedding.

I did have a bride cancel in the same manner like 2 days before the wedding. She said she didn't have the money and she was going to do without video.

I did not believe a word she said as this was all in email anyway.

So the church was about 2 miles from my studio, so i drove over as the guest were arriving and low and behold there was another video guy. Actually a guy that i knew. So i asked him when did he book this wedding, and he told me 3 weeks prior. So I thought to myself, great, he just made easy money for me.
The guy she hired was a real nice guy with the most antiquated equipment you ever seen. He had very little experience and was just trying to make a buck. Type of guy that shoots 5 year old parties at Chucky Cheese, but a real nice guy.

So I was prepared to leave and all of a sudden the bride's limo pulls up. So I got out of sight and just waited, As she got to the entrance of the church, I looked at her, said congratulations, and asked her to call me when she got back from her honeymoon.

She did call me, we did some wrangling over a period of a couple of weeks and then she finally sent the check in about 2 1/2 months after the wedding.

That said I would enforce my contract to the fullest. If you shoot weddings you make money off the calendar, and she blew a hole in your calendar.

My contract had full payment before the wedding.

I did have a bride cancel in the same manner like 2 days before the wedding. She said she didn't have the money and she was going to do without video.

I did not believe a word she said as this was all in email anyway.

So the church was about 2 miles from my studio, so i drove over as the guest were arriving and low and behold there was another video guy. Actually a guy that i knew. So i asked him when did he book this wedding, and he told me 3 weeks prior. So I thought to myself, great, he just made easy money for me.
The guy she hired was a real nice guy with the most antiquated equipment you ever seen. He had very little experience and was just trying to make a buck. Type of guy that shoots 5 year old parties at Chucky Cheese, but a real nice guy.

So I was prepared to leave and all of a sudden the bride's limo pulls up. So I got out of sight and just waited, As she got to the entrance of the church, I looked at her, said congratulations, and asked her to call me when she got back from her honeymoon.

She did call me, we did some wrangling over a period of a couple of weeks and then she finally sent the check in about 2 1/2 months after the wedding.

That said I would enforce my contract to the fullest. If you shoot weddings you make money off the calendar, and she blew a hole in your calendar.

Cringeworthy scenario, but your absolutely right. Time is money. You could of done another wedding on that date ...

And worth a trip to the venue to document the actual situation - would be very awkward before a judge to have hired someone else like that, sort of blow out any "sob story" if that were the case! I'm shocked thatt anyone would be so crass...

@ Peter -
If it's REALLY about the money, offer a payment plan and be the nice guy - but since the "client" is avoiding you, I'd make a trip by the venue to scope out whether there's more to the story.... if there is a video guy there, then it would be gloves off, IMO. Money is tight, but screwing over a vendor at the last minute is pretty low...

Pete, all the advice for how you should take payments for future weddings may well be fine for the future, but don't help with this one.

My advice would be to write a very sympathetic letter or email to the couple saying that you understand their difficulties, but that the cancelling of the wedding will put you into financial difficulty as it is your living and you have your own bills to pay. Also point out that your contract is the only way that you can protect your income and that it is a legal document that they have signed. You could suggest that they could perhaps make you staged payments over an agreed period as it is a difficult time for them and that if they are definitely not going ahead with the video, that you would be prepared to offer a reduction of £xxx as a sign of good faith. This will also save the pain of a court case and the extra cost to them of legal fees on top of your contracted price if there is no settlement agreement.

Strangely, I have just this week had a situation where I have filmed the wedding and the Bride then sent me an email to say that she is really sorry, but parents were going to pay for it and they have now refused. They have no money to pay themselves, so they don't know what to do. I reminded them that they had signed the contract and offered them staged payments and have just had a very relieved message back to say that they are absolutely delighted and pleased that I have been able to help them have their video.

Sometimes a firm word combined with a sympathetic approach can be effective and if there is time, your bride might still agree to go ahead as it will cost her anyway.

Roger

If you have the payment term specified in the contract, you can take her to small claims court. It's really an easy to do.

If her cancellation is due to a death in the family, I will use the payment as credit for future booking.

Just my 2 cents :)

Our contract requires a $500 depoisit at booking and full payment of the balance due two weeks before the wedding date. I have never had anybody question this or ask for any different terms.

Unless we got a last minute booking to replace a last minute cancellation the payments are non refundable.

Pete, all the advice for how you should take payments for future weddings may well be fine for the future, but don't help with this one.

My advice would be to write a very sympathetic letter or email to the couple saying that you understand their difficulties, but that the cancelling of the wedding will put you into financial difficulty as it is your living and you have your own bills to pay. Also point out that your contract is the only way that you can protect your income and that it is a legal document that they have signed. You could suggest that they could perhaps make you staged payments over an agreed period as it is a difficult time for them and that if they are definitely not going ahead with the video, that you would be prepared to offer a reduction of £xxx as a sign of good faith. This will also save the pain of a court case and the extra cost to them of legal fees on top of your contracted price if there is no settlement agreement.

Strangely, I have just this week had a situation where I have filmed the wedding and the Bride then sent me an email to say that she is really sorry, but parents were going to pay for it and they have now refused. They have no money to pay themselves, so they don't know what to do. I reminded them that they had signed the contract and offered them staged payments and have just had a very relieved message back to say that they are absolutely delighted and pleased that I have been able to help them have their video.

Sometimes a firm word combined with a sympathetic approach can be effective and if there is time, your bride might still agree to go ahead as it will cost her anyway.

Roger

Roger ,
Your approach is a good one but I believe Peter said she canceled with 3 days to go and is not answering his calls or email. I think he is stuck.

Hi Pete

Sadly Al is correct here ..you are essentially stuck if you cannot get hold of her apart from physically going to the wedding to demand your money.

Now, you already have 150 for the booking which she doesn't get back of course and you can politely ask for the 75% as per contract but you also have to weigh up the issues about her bad mouthing you cos you made her pay 75% for nothing (I know it's her fault but others on places like Facebook don't know that and she will play the victim here)

Probably a trade off is the only way to go here ...ask for your 75% and then if she gets nasty, negotiate as the loss of some funds here is preferable to being bad mouthed all over social media... hopefully she will pay as per contract and that will be the end of it. I do agree that she does owe you 75% ..it's in your contract but if she cannot afford to hire you any more how can she pay you 75%???

Oh well at the very worst..you have 150 and can take the day off!

Chris

Around here it's typical to get a retainer of a certain amount with the paperwork and the balance at least 14 days prior to the event. Personally since I got burned 2 time almost 25 years ago I get 50% up front with the balance 30 days prior to the event. I also have a clause in my agreement that states in very clear terms the cancellation policy. In brief, if the event is cancelled more than 30 days before the event is scheduled, they lose the amount up to 50%. IOW, if they paid in after the 50% retainer, an additional amount I will refund the amount over the 50% retainer. If they cancel within the 30 day period prior to the event they lose. Period. That it all! There have been 2 times in the last 25 years that I made the decision to refund at least some if not all of the monies paid to me. In one case the wedding was called off on the day of because the bride caught the groom in a, say we say, compromising position with someone who was standing up in the wedding. In that case I did refund 25% of the money that was paid. It seemed to be the right thing to do. In the other case, the brides mother passed away, suddenly and unexpectedly, 2 days before the wedding. In that case, I refunded all of her funds after offering to do the job on any other later date which while she was grateful for the offer she wasn't sure of how they were going to proceed. As it turned out they got married in a very small ceremony at the courthouse without a reception.
While I have it in my T&C what the policy is I am not a totally heartless person and any case is looked at of and by itself however I am in business and not in the habit of simply refunding money. I have the policy for a reason and am not adverse to sticking with it. I did have one other where the groom left the bride standing at the altar. Literally! He walked out of the ceremony stating he couldn't do this. After many tears and consultation with her family (the photog and I stood outside smoking many cigarettes-this was a few years ago before I quit smoking) the bride had asked us to come in and we stood like all the guests wondering what was going to happen. She said since she had already paid for the reception, the photog and the video let's go have a party. We did! I recorded the party, the photog did the same, the DJ played the music, people including the bride ate, drank and danced. I gave her a very nice product and she was happy with the results. At least as far as the video. I did not refund any money although had I been asked I might have refunded a small percentage because there was no ceremony but I was never asked.
Point to this is simple. You have a contract or service agreement with terms and conditions that hopefully cover cancellations, stick to it but use your best judgment. As for taking someone to court for money they were supposed to pay and didn't, well, you might have a hard time with that since the job was cancelled or at least your end of it. If you didn't do the work it would be hard to collect even with a signed contract. Let it go. Keep the money you received and move on. The bad publicity you might and probably would get isn't worth it!
Just my $.02 worth.

Keep the money you received and move on. The bad publicity you might and probably would get isn't worth it!
Just my $.02 worth.

Excellent advice Don. I have always said if you piss off one customer you then have to go out and do enough advertising to reach 10 other people to replace those people who your pissed off customer was going to turn away from you because of their "bad publicity".

I really like the idea of turning up and checking - if somebody else has been given the job, then you have a public response to any bad mouthing, and something to back up any possible court action.

I know it's her fault but others on places like Facebook don't know that and she will play the victim here

Just how much reach would social media have in a scenario like this though?

I don't participate in Facebook or Twitter - I'd rather gouge my own eyes out - but my understanding is that nothing the bride posts would be available to the general public unless she puts it in her profile and leaves that totally open. So the only people who would see her comments would be her relatively small circle of actual friends (pretend "friends" wouldn't even bother to read it). Some of these may misunderstand and others may understand only too well.

My point being I doubt the potential of seriously damaging comments on these media.

A blog post would be a different matter but then she would need a powerful blog anyway if she is going to get seen in numbers.

p.s. for those wondering how I survive without Facebook - well I have a vast website which scores highly in SEO on numerous search strings and makes SEO efforts via Facebook just look silly in comparison :- ) Yes it is possible. Bit like people not understanding how I can shoot stills and at the same time produce fully featured multicam videos :- )

Don't forget the clients insurance folks - not for this scenario but in general. It is very cheap for them and can pay out even in the event of a close family illness or tragedy impacting on the day. Just had one of these where the groom was taken seriously ill days before the wedding.

My payment terms have been retainer followed by balance in full 6 weeks before the wedding date for the past ten years and it works fine. Don't let your imagination get the better of you - the clients are likely to be familiar with far more onerous terms from their venue. At 6 weeks at least you have some chance of re-booking, or arranging something personal for you and your family to do instead.

You should always use the word retainer rather than deposit for your initial fee. The reason is that court cases on both sides of the ocean and beyond have otherwise found against the photographer / videographer because in their view nothing was supplied. A retainer is specifically a charge for reserving the date and therefore you have supplied something to the client. That is hard fact no matter how much you may dislike it.

Back to the original question. She isn't going to pay now or later for services she sees as not supplied. I'd be inclined to shoot it anyway on the basis that you will not touch the files until she does settle. Particularly if its potentially a good sample day.

Pete

good point about the word 'retainer' instead of 'deposit', although the word deposit is much more widely used.
In my service agreement i've tried to be fair so what i came up with was;
' The fee is €XXX.00. To execute this agreement, a payment of 50% of the total cost is required, at the time of signing. The remainder due no later than the day of the wedding.....'
So my thinking is that if they cancel, say, within a few days i've got 50% of the agreed payment. I do have a cancellation clause in the event that both me and the client are impacted by serious illness/death to us or our immediate families, that it nullifies the agreement, this can be invoked within 7 days of the event and all bets are off.
I wouldn't be at all pleased if they booked me then got another person to do it and try and wiggle out of the obligation.
I don't have a facebook account (been thinking about it ok) but I wouldn't underestimate the influence that social media such as facebook twitter etc. can have, especially where I am small urban/rural area South East Ireland
I would certainly agree with the bad publicity that a court case can have.
I really didn't understand the op about the photog causing his reputation to be tarnished tho!

Hi Pete
From what I have seen brides tend to network with each other fairly extensively and also have bridal/wedding groups on Facebook where they discuss vendors vigorously with each other ..I have had a few weddings where the bride has said .."Oh we talk about you on our Facebook Group a lot" ...and no I have never been there, it's restricted access and you have to get invited to join so a lot goes on behind the scenes especially with the younger generation. With a bunch of brides from the past and brides to be participating you can guess who's side they will take and none of this is public so your name is either praised or condemned inside these closed groups!! I was eventually invited to a group from a very pleased bride called Brides Past and Present and believe me they toss around vendor names like wildfire!!

With my 3 x 1/3 plan if the bride cancels half way thru I still have 1/3rd and if she cancels last minute I get 2/3rds ...also if she never pays the final amount I still have 2/3rds of my package amount. I think regardless of your split. you must make sure than the couple have paid you enough to convince themselves that it's not worth cancelling ... For those taking a mere $100 on booking the bride 6 months down the line is more liable to cancel you for money reasons than if she had paid you $500 on booking.

It would be interesting to see IF she found a cheaper guy (or a family member) or if she genuinely did have to scale back everything!

Chris

I wouldn't be at all pleased if they booked me then got another person to do it and try and wiggle out of the obligation.That's a very good reason to take a substantial retainer/booking fee. Even if they find someone else that they like better or was cheaper or whatever they are not going want to lose 30-50% whereas if you had just taken a token £100 they may not feel so bad about cancelling.

Hi Pete - After reading through a lot of these posts I feel your pain and would like to throw out a few thoughts. I'm not a professional videographer/photographer but I had a bad experience back when I was in college that was similar.

Back then I was working my way through school and did some drafting for clients out of my apartment. I had invested in a drafting machine and table which was a big expense at the time and things were going along pretty good with home remodels, one restaurant remodel, and then I got this guy who wanted to convert a garage and add an upstairs apartment. Big mistake. Nothing I did pleased him and after giving him numerous good ideas in sketches and one drawing he decided he didn't like any of them. Spent a lot of time on this job during the school year and wound up basically just getting a few bucks and that was my last job. That really hurt.

Looking back I think that should have been a lesson learned. Call it the road of hard knocks. Everything I did then was without a contract and instead based on honorable intentions with good communication.

Given the on-line networking that has been mentioned and the ability to do on-line searches, one option would be to chalk the bad experience up as a business loss and lessons learned. Even landlords who rent apartments have dead beats who never pay or renters who leave the property in a damaged condition. Landlords have to factor in a vacancy factor for various reasons.

Networking can go both ways. What about trying to get in the good graces with the wedding planner? Maybe by showing an ability to try and work with the client but the client is, shall we say, "difficult", the planner may help to steer some work your way in the future. In the meantime, one can tweak the contract per some of the above suggestions.

With contracts, one of the most basic parts is that there needs to be a "meeting of the minds". Going forward, this is something that one can put more effort into. Not to scare off the potential client but ensure the best possible outcome for both parties. After all, that is what both parties want so it shouldn't be that hard.

Another unwritten law of the land is "You can't squeeze blood out of a turnip." If they don't have much money it will be "pushing a rope." I know "it's easy for me to say" but having been there, done that, I know this is tough. After all these years I still remember my old problem and ... I still have my old Brunning drafting machine! (somewhere in the garage)

It may be too late now but what about approaching the wedding planner/ coordinator? and if you're calling her from your mobile there's a good reason she's not answering - she know's who you are - try another mobile, your home phone or a pay phone - she'll certainly answer if she doesn't know who it is.

You have to find out why? - if she's run out of money you may offer to do the wedding anyway and set up regular payments before she get's the goods. If she's booked someone else, there's not much point in pursuing it.

Threatening to take her to court or actually doing so is a waste of time - the only consequences are negative. Let's not forget that you haven't actually lost anything, you may have had other enqueries and thay may have translated into bookings but ...

You needed to have the majority of the money long before this - learn from that.
** I have done a similar thing though, the bride said she was going to pay in a couple of days and kept saying that till a couple of days before the wedding - I decided to go ahead. If I hadn't turned up I would have been badmouthed all over facebook, twitter and whatever other social media she used.

She still hasn't paid - I've contacted her re time payment and she definately wanted to go ahead but I'm still waiting.

You can choose not to take her to court but please don't do it because you believe she will bad mouth you.
If you have your documentation and records she is the culprit here. Personally and legally.

And just because there is a Internet you can't go bad mouthing people or businesses without merit.
And she is clearly without merit. Slandering you on the Internet would be a huge mistake for her. You may want to caution her of that upfront in writing as well. Just the same you don't want to be known as the business who is afraid of bad mouthing.

I would doubt this will ever get to court of any kind. If you stand firm she will do the right thing.