Hi guys! I have the Canon XF305. After lots of research, I found the Sony's new affordable 4k camera the PXW-Z100. It retails for $5,500. My question is, should I sell the XF305 for this camera? Here are the specs for Sony's camera:Sony PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM Camcorder PXW-Z100 B&H Photo

I think we can"t answer that question for you with so little info, do you need 4K or Is it something your clients expect?

It is not something my clients expect. It's something I was curious about since new technology is coming out like the new 4K tv's and such. I was just worried that my Canon is already too outdated.

When I first got started, I bought so much stuff 'cause I just thought I "had to have it to be a good filmmaker" (I wasn't even doing much paid work at the time!). Over time I sold some of that stuff, kept some, but have generally gotten a lot more conservative about buying things without a need. I'm getting to the point with certain things (still don't an HD camera!) where it's becoming quite a pain to rent but the investment still freaks me out.

What I'm getting at is this 4K thing is so new, and such overkill for so many projects, that I would think really hard before getting one. I'm looking into something along the lines of the EX1 myself, which I've read on some message boards is an "old" or "outdated" camera. Well, I still see em on legit, budgeted, crewed shoots all over town and and the picture is sharp as crap and generally looks very nice. Doesn't seem outdated to me!

I think your xf305 is far from outdated, that's an excellent camera, the only thing I would consider 4K for is to have a stationary camera at a wedding in church for instance so I could edit that 4k image in a 1080p project as I could crop the image without quality loss and choose different angles or zoom in- or out. Even for dance performances this would be a great solution, just have the full stage in view and while editing zoom in or out to change the frame. But other then that I don't need 4K the next years, 1080p will do just fine for the clients I work for. Also 4k doesn't always mean it's always that better, a gopro can do 4k as well but I bet it won't look better then the image from your Canon.

I was just worried that my Canon is already too outdated.

It's only outdated if you think it is. IOW, if it can't do something you need done. Is that the case?

Personally, I'm not interested in 4K. Probably not for a decade or more. But I'm interested in that Sony Z100 because it'll give me 10 bit 4:2:2 in 1920 x 1080 at 60p. And that, I can use right now.

The general biz advice I've heard is don't buy anything (wealthy hobbiest aside) that won't pay for itself in a year or year and a half, unless it "never" becomes obsolete (i.e. a multicart/rocknroller, etc.). Will your clients pay extra for the extra "k"?

I'm with some of the others here... if no one is going to pay you for it... no need to get it.

I've been filming weddings for 13 years, and have moved to HD, and have only delivered one Blu Ray video in the past 4 years. Everyone still wants regular DVDs, or they want it on a memory stick.

I think we're still several years away from the proliferation of 4K TVs and monitors.

Really? In 2013 when everyone has an HD television and Blu-ray players cost about $75 you aren't delivering finished products in HD? If you ask me, you are missing out on an opportunity to up-sell your services and charge more for HD. Customers WILL pay extra and it's practically no extra effort on your part. Even if they say they don't want HD today, I'd still shoot and edit in HD so I could turn around and charge them for an HD version in the future. I'd just have to dust off the master, deliver it, and cash the check . . . extra money in the bank with virtually no effort.

No matter how great we all are at production, ultimately we are all salesmen and educating the customer is part of the job. And if you're not delivering HD in 2013, you're missing the boat and not keeping pace with the competition.

I'd love to deliver more on BD, because the cogs are super low cost vs quality. But I pre-screen all my clients and that's one of the things I inquire about is if they have a Blu Ray player, and so far, I've only had one person who could play back a BD.

I guess I live in a low tech area. I just got my first actual Blu Ray player last Christmas. (I got my actual burner in my compter in 2011).

4k is useless unless you are blowing up the images. It is going to be a while before it becomes a more viable resolution.

The more I think about this option, of being able to essentially zoom in (blow up) the picture on a 1080 timelime, the more I actually would lean towards going ahead and buying a 4K camera. That is a really neat thing to be able to do, and not lose quality.

It is a big step. I work at a camera shop. At the end of September I shot on the Sony F55. I shot 4k as XAVC to a SXS card and I shot RAW on a AXS card. 70 grand work of gear including the lens. Last week I put Premiere (Creative Cloud) on a PC. I was able to play the XAVC 4k footage in the timeline. We put a 4k BlackMagic card in the computer. I got the HDMI out to show 1080 on a broadcast monitor. Next up was the 4k Seiki consumer monitor. Nothing from Premiere. I downloaded Sony's RAW viewer for free. A colleague helped me get the BlackMagic card settings properly configured on the computer and we were able to see the RAW video in 4K on the monitor. Next up is to try to get the Davinci Resolve 10 BETA working. Pulled the dongle from our rental BMCC and looking forward to seeing what I can do with grading the footage. All I know right now is the 3 way color corrector in FCP7.

I live in Los Angeles which I would not call a low-tech area and I know at least 10 people with awesome projector systems, maxed out sound and a good old SD DVD player hooked up to it...


I'd love to deliver more on BD, because the cogs are super low cost vs quality. But I pre-screen all my clients and that's one of the things I inquire about is if they have a Blu Ray player, and so far, I've only had one person who could play back a BD.

I guess I live in a low tech area. I just got my first actual Blu Ray player last Christmas. (I got my actual burner in my compter in 2011).

Unless your into gadgets or have a friend that is ... you won't be buying into the bluray hype.

Loads of my family & extended family are still using DVD, and only purchased a bluray player because I told them too and explained the benefits.

High definition is here to stay ... 4k is only for the big budget studios etc

Event photography/videography won't need anything more than 1080p high definition.

Same here, just a very small percentage of my wedding clients is asking for a blu-ray but they all want a dvd, instead I deliver 1080p mp4 files they can play on about every device with a usb stick. I see 4K only as interesting for cropping possibilities but I"m sure my current 1080p camera's will at least be with me another 5 years, by then probably most new camera will be 4K anyway.

I'm also with James and Noa, I can write Bluray, but don't have a player and have only been asked twice for Bluray over 2000 weddings. Clients want dvd to share with the family and like Noa, I offer mp4 on USB stick if required.

I also agree that a 4k camera would be great for cropping, as I could set up one to capture full stage for my school or music shoots, read the paper until it's finished, then crop any CU, MCU or zooms that I want at the editing stage. Beats setting up and operating 4 cameras :-)

Roger

I also agree that a 4k camera would be great for cropping, as I could set up one to capture full stage for my school or music shoots, read the paper until it's finished

That would be an interesting experiment how that would work out, I have only 3 dancperformances to shoot next year but was thinking to maybe hire a 4k camera and set it up on one of those performances, so still shoot with my current camera's but just let the 4k one roll unmanned the entire play and see what I can do with it in post.

That would be an interesting experiment how that would work out, I have only 3 dancperformances to shoot next year but was thinking to maybe hire a 4k camera and set it up on one of those performances, so still shoot with my current camera's but just let the 4k one roll unmanned the entire play and see what I can do with it in post.

I would be really interested to see the results of that sort of test :-)

Roger

Is this theory or reality? Wouldnt you need a really quality lens to extract cus and meds from a wide master? Otherwise itd be 1080p mush no?

I would be really interested to see the results of that sort of test :-)
If you want to get a good feel for the effect try a GoPro at 4K. You can get really nice smooth 1080 pans this way, and at $400 it's a pretty low cost way to mess with 4K.

To Josh Morgan, I guess you get the point by this thread that many think 4k is still in the future and your XF305 is plenty useful. I would agree. The idea of future proofing in my experience is most profitable for equipment makers. No problem to buy cameras out of interest in technology or staying on the forefront, just don't fall into the trap of rationalizing the purchase by saying your current gear is outdated. HD is nowhere near to being outdated.

To comment on Doug Jensen's post about needing to deliver in HD - well, I have found the same situation as the posts here state. HD seems to be way more important to video people than "normal" people.

I often look at my HD cameras and see them as detailed DVD creators becuase so often I ask people if they want a DVD or a high definition Blu-ray and they often say "DVD will be just fine". In my opinion, Sony or I guess "the consortium" really missed the market with the Blu-ray rollout. People were so excited with DVD for years. When HDTVs started gaining momentum they should have priced the Blu-ray players under $50 to introduce the better images and keep the format alive and in peoples homes. Instead they made them too expensive and in the mean time folks just gravitated in other areas left only with their DVD players for optical media.

I do not think DVD will ever go away like VHS did. Nor will Blu-ray ever get past a medium to lower percentage of use among the delivery options. At least with BD or DVD you have a chance your product will be shown in a proper fashion on a television. The opposite being internet delivery where one does not know what kind of viewing experience the client will have, but it is HD...

Thanks for your awesome comment. I will wait. I love my XF305 and I'll stick with it! I'm curious to see how cheap 4K cameras will be in a few years!

Well, there is cheap and then there is good... Cheap will always be around! Seriously, great video images are not just about resolution. I have been impressed with the codec options on the new Sony 1/3" models. That is a good sign for the future. Light sensitivity (without gain or noise reduction) is very important to me which might prove to be an issue with early smaller chip 4k cameras.

As an xf305 owner, I'll add my .02 cents, late as usual, just for anyone reading this down the road. I agree that in my limited market, I don't seen any need for 4K, as I deliver in HD and SD, but none of my clients even know what 4K is. None have asked for Blu Ray, even when I bring it up.

There was a lot of good reasons to get into HD when it came out, as we all know. I can't see those reasons yet for 4K. My xf305 and 5Dmkiii both produce outstanding footage, as does my leased C100. I could use 4:2:2 for the C100 and 5D, but have the option of running a cheap Atomos or something else like Magic Lantern on the 5D, to capture if I thought it was necessary. On the other hand, a friend locally here, who has a xf300, bought a BMC because he does one of a kind landscape environmental work. He has been thrilled with the higher res of the camera.

I was taught a concept in the 80s, called the "Technology Elevator". New products like HD and 4K cameras, etc. go in the top, at the highest price. They eventually, like SD gear, come out on the bottom floor at give away prices. I have always tried to avoid the top floor of the technology elevator, unless there is a real good reason that will help pay back that extra investment quickly, like filling a customer demand for it. A year ago it seemed like "everyone" was convinced 3D was the next wave. It had limited uses. Still not caught on. Everyone will have a 4K camera out in a year or so. If you have the money to play with now, then go for it, but if you could better use that money promoting your business, then it likely would be better spent there.

" HD seems to be way more important to video people than "normal" people."
I think that this comment from Tim hits the nail right on the head. As video producers, we know the possibilities and admire the results that higher and higher resolutions, bigger sensors, more pixels etc can produce. It's very easy to forget that all of that is totally over the heads of the vast majority of our clients who are used to watching dvds, and highly compressed repeats of old tv programmes.

My clients want their memories on a disc that they can watch with their families, capturing the emotion and fun of their day. They are not interested in how or on what it is recorded and edited, rather that they can watch it to a similar quality to what they are used to seeing without really thinking about what it is presented on. There are always exceptions but they are few and far between when dealing with ordinary people rather than video professionals.

In response to Josh Bass, I already use crops from 1920x1080 at 50p, sometimes down to 30% of full frame if output is to be to dvd. I would expect a 4k camera with high quality lens to be capable of standing up to far greater crops. I might notice a softening of the image, but the ordinary man in the street will be interested in the content and will just not see it with our eyes.

Roger