Hi Everyone,

I hate to start another one of those "Which camera should I buy?" threads... so I hope you all can manage to forgive me. I am wading into somewhat unknown territory here and would love to hear the opinions of you who are a bit more familiar with the BMPCC and similar cameras.

My background is in television. Mostly ENG style work. For ten years I worked in television news. Now I run my own video production business full time. Most of my single camera work is still ENG style shooting, usually as a freelancer on some network show. I also do live multi-camera work. For my single camera ENG style shooting I use the JVC HM700. Its controls are very familiar to me as a grew up on full size ENG cameras. For my multi-camera live work I use multiple Sony FX1's and switch them live.

I am looking to move into doing more work that has a more cinematic look to it. I have started to do some stuff that is more film style shooting then ENG. Though I am still using my JVC HM700 for this, having a camera with a larger sensor and less compressed recording format would be nice. There isn't much grading you can do with the JVC video before it starts to fall apart.

When I heard about the pocket cinema camera it seemed perfect for me. Everything I'm doing is only being delivered in 1080p, if that. I have no need for 2k or 4k at this point. A super 16 sized sensor, though maybe not as nice as a super 35 sensor, still offers plenty of DOF control. I also don't mind the lack of pro audio connectors as for a lot of my work I shoot dual system anyway.

So, why am I not running out and buying the camera? Well, the answer is that I've been reading online reviews. The general consensus I'm getting from the reviews I've seen is that it is a nice little camera, but its not quite ready for professional use. However, the reviews aren't terribly clear on why its not ready for pro use.

I have been pouring over footage from the BMPCC and other cameras, and the BMPCC seems to by my favorite so far. The highlight handling in the BMPCC seems far more film like to me. Even more expensive cameras I've been checking out, like the Sony FS100, the highlights seem more harsh and video-ish than the BMPCC.

So, my questions for all of you are-

If you are of the opinion that the BMPCC is not suitable for pro use, why not?

What other cameras in this price range should I be looking at? Why are they better than the BMPCC?

Any other things I should be aware of or consider before I make a purchase?

I will do my best not to trash the BMPCC with respect to the people who own it and like it. I'll say just this:
I bought two of them and sold them within a week of trying them out.

I will do my best not to trash the BMPCC with respect to the people who own it and like it. I'll say just this:
I bought two of them and sold them within a week of trying them out.

Hi Dylan! Thanks for your thoughts.

What you said mirrors what I have been finding a lot about the camera. People try it out, but for whatever reason decide its not for them or that it isn't up to the task they need for.

However, it is odd, because I can't seem to find anyone who can explain why. Was it the ergonomics that pushed you away? The image quality? Camera operation? Why did you decide to sell them after only a week? What better camera is out there for the job?

Hi Dylan! Thanks for your thoughts.

What you said mirrors what I have been finding a lot about the camera. People try it out, but for whatever reason decide its not for them or that it isn't up to the task they need for.

It's a minimalist camera, to be sure - you cannot adjust the color beyond film or video mode, the frame rates are very limited for a new camera in 2013, white balance is essentially a handful of presets, and the ergonomics are practically non-existent (don't even think about hand holding it without some type of support - but if you have seen a photo of it, you were probably expecting that already). The built-in screen is not very good (it would be 10x better if it just tilted). Lens selection is tricky too. The sensor is slightly larger than super 16, which means that a lot of C-mount lenses will vignette. Micro four thirds lenses mostly work, but the auto iris and autofocus functions are weird at best. Plus, you only have about 3 or 4 choices in MFT that qualify as wide angle. There are definitely options out there, but they come from odd places, and are likely more expensive than you thought they would be.

It is most certainly not a camera for everyone! Think of it as a component in a larger system, and understand that you will probably spend another $1,500+ to build a full rig, and you may appreciate it. Also realize that you will never use video straight out of the camera - you *have* to edit in post, if only to get the color right. All of this seemed obvious to me before I bought it, but I did a lot of homework, and it is mostly what I expected. No, it's not perfect - far from it. But it's very close to what I expected and what I currently want.

For whatever it's worth, I'm keeping mine :)

We sold ours after turning on the screen, deciding it was useless for critical color or focusing, and if we had to use a full rig and external monitor then go with the larger Balckmagic or some other camera. there was zero way to use it as a pocket portable. At least for us.

Hi Adam - why not rent the camera from Borrowlenses for a few days and see if you like it?

You won't need an expensive rig and EVF to make the camera usable. I put a $21.50 P&C pistol grip on mine and use a $50 loupe (http://www.adorama.com/CIMHE52.html?kbid=68009) and an $8 3.5" adapter (http://www.adorama.com/CIMHE52R.html?kbid=68009) I wear around my neck so I can focus with the LCD.

I use the BMPCC (http://www.adorama.com/VDBMCCP.html?kbid=68009) like a Super 8 camera or a Bolex, and, with a little practice, can now routinely shoot steady, focused and properly exposed images.

I've been shooting Super 8, 16mm, tape and digital for about 45 years, and I've seen worse ergonomics, but I've never seen a better image. Not bad for a $995 camera.

That said, if you don't like the BMPCC (http://www.adorama.com/VDBMCCP.html?kbid=68009)'s ergonomics, the GH3 produces the second best large-sensor video image quality in this price class.

Good luck with your decision!

Bill
Hybrid Camera Revolution (http://hybridcamerarevolution.blogspot.com)

Wow!

Some really good information everyone.

I already did figure that if I get the BMPCC I will be investing in some kind of rig for it, in addition to lenses. I figured I would need some kind of external EVF. Also, I would like a power solution that lets me use my V mount batteries that I use on my JVC. The budget I am thinking of for this is about $3500 - $4500 total, including a lens and rig.

I was not under the impression that I would just be able to take this camera and start shooting handheld. For run-and-gun work I still plan on using my JVC. What I am looking for is a camera for shoots where I am going to be carefully planning all the shots, taking my time, and color grading later.

Already I have downloaded some of the straight-from-camera pro-res files and played around with different workflows. I have been very happy with how the footage the camera produces holds up when pushing it around in SpeedGrade.

Still, I am not totally sold on the BMPCC. I have no special brand-love for Blackmagic. I just want the best tool for the job at a price that is within my reach. As far as I can tell, there are no other cameras that produce footage suitable for color grading in this price range without buying an external recorder.

Reading all the reviews of people saying this camera isn't yet ready for professional use, and hearing about all the people who have returned the camera or sold it scare me. It does me no good to buy a camera that I can't use on shoots for paying clients.

Adam, as you've already tried the Sony FS100 I can say here it's a far better choice for what you are planning to do. Though somewhat awkward in the form factor and overall handling, at least in my view it's not pretending to be a Pocketable Unusable the way I think the BMPCC is. Yes, you got it right, the highlight handling may not be pretty (a little harsh and yellowish at the threshold of clipping) but not much different or worse than many good video cameras out there. The strengths are plenty and using it in the field normally doesn't require much supporting equipment. You know the specs and feel, I guess. The BMPCC, on the other hand, I can only say the specs look as impressive as it's impractical in real shooting environments.

If you go with the FS100, our team had one, use Frank 's profiles as it has harsh highlights and more limited DR without it. This means that most of the online samples are shot with under performing settings.

...It does me no good to buy a camera that I can't use on shoots for paying clients.

These guys shot this real estate gig with a RED Scarlet and the BMPCC (http://www.adorama.com/VDBMCCP.html?kbid=68009), and used the BMPCC (http://www.adorama.com/VDBMCCP.html?kbid=68009) footage. All shots here with the BMPCC (http://www.adorama.com/VDBMCCP.html?kbid=68009):

The Case on Vimeo

In the hands of pros, this is a pro camera. Again, it won't cost that much to rent one from Borrowlenses (http://www.borrowlenses.com/product/Blackmagic-Pocket-Cinema-Camera/) and find out for yourself.

Cheers,

Bill
Hybrid Camera Revolution (http://hybridcamerarevolution.blogspot.com)

Sure, if you do not need in camera sound

Hi - I have sort of the same questions/concerns as Adam so hope it's OK to tag on here. In my case I'm looking for something that would be static/locked down for a couple of hours (I know about needing power and memory) under unchanging lighting, and small and light enough to hang on a light stand for use as a couple of close-in cameras for classical orchestra recording with minimal digital zooming/panning in post. Just looking for close ups of sections/soloists etc to cut to from the main (720p) camera in the back balcony. Obviously for this application I'd only be using camera audio as a sync aid.

Thoughts? And I will look into the rental idea.

Unless you use an external recorder the camera will likely not record long enough for some symphonic pieces.

I thought that would be a function of the size of the memory card, but I don't think I've seen anything to tell me how long it will record per GB.

Edit - I found somewhere online that a 256GB card should be good for 155 min. True or not I don't know.

I locked down the BM Cinema Camera in similar fashion. I know we could only get about a little over an hour on 120 gig card, so if it is same ProRes codec as on the BMCC, then you can figure about 2 gigs per minute. Do they make a 240 SD card yet ?

Right now the largest approved SD card is the SanDisk Exreme Pro at 64 GB, but they will soon introduce a 128GB card. Expensive cards. $140 for 64 GB.

there are numerous reports that SanDisk Exreme (not Pro) cards will work with ProRes. Half the price of the pro version.

A 256 GB Lexar card, which may or may not work but I would not trust it, costs $500. remember that the BMPCC REQUIRES the fastest SD cards, and that these will be MUCH more expensive per GB than SSDs.

If I wanted 10 bit ProRes 422 from a locked off camera I would get the BMPCC (http://www.adorama.com/VDBMCCP.html?kbid=68009) and a used Hyperdeck Shuttle for $294 from Amazon Warehouse Deals to maximize my recording time.

As Philip says, SSDs are a lot less expensive than SD cards on a per GB basis.

The camera works well with the Hyperdeck. Here is an example:


Blackmagic Pocket + Kowa Anamorphics + Blackmagic Hyperdeck (uncropped) on Vimeo


Cheers,

Bill
Hybrid Camera Revolution (http://hybridcamerarevolution.blogspot.com)

Right now the largest approved SD card is the SanDisk Exreme Pro at 64 GB, but they will soon introduce a 128GB card. Expensive cards. $140 for 64 GB.

there are numerous reports that SanDisk Exreme (not Pro) cards will work with ProRes. Half the price of the pro version.


Sandisk Extreme cards work just fine, and are "approved" by Blackmagic. Even the older 45 MB / sec Extreme cards work for ProRes.

Blackmagic Design: FAQ's (http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/support/detail/faqs?sid=27541&pid=34849&os=mac)

The codec may not be the same as the BMCC either - BMPCC uses less than 2GB / minute - I have heard about 42 minutes is typical on a 64 GB card, and I usually see around 1.5 GB / minute - but have not filled a card with a single clip yet.

Battery life will also limit you, so use an external pack if you need to record longer than 40 minutes.

BMPCC is a "post" camera. It's designed for grading work. If you don't need/want that flexibility, it's not the camera for you. It's not only the wide dynamic range but the ability to compensate when "exposing to the right" that can allow making significant adjustments without breaking the codec.

If you don't like the flexibility of interchangeable lenses it's not the camera for you. The lens flexibility with an (active) MFT mount is excellent.

I much prefer in camera recording ProRes than going to external device to avoid AVCHD codec.

The camera works well handheld with good Lumix OIS lens.

So I can record ProRes with an OIS lens handheld. That's more "Pocket" than I can get with other cameras.

Audio is reasonable IF you put a Rode Video Mic Pro on it, if you're just looking for "camera audio."

The largest card is currently 128GB Sandisk Extreme. This is not an extremely long recording duration so if you want that in a handheld, it's not the camera for you.

For me, an actual Nikon battery can last just over an hour and the BMD batteries between 50 and 60 minutes. There's a lot of mediocre third party batteries that only last 30-40 minutes. Easy to avoid those. BMD batteries are $15/ea. I got several from B&H.

What you're getting with BMPCC is an excellent interchangeable system with camera back (recorder) in a small form factor. Yet, you can rig it out as needed with external battery and recorder.

I can put the camera, batteries, cards, couple of lenses in a messenger bag and be on my way. I can use monopod or small stabilizer and still be very mobile.

Hmm - thanks for all the info. Have to admit that I'm sort of thinking of maybe getting its big brother instead. I already have quite a collection of Canon EF glass for my still cameras so wouldn't have to invest in a new lens - I have 16 - 35 and 14mm lenses so should have reasonably wide coverage.I"ll probably rent one and experiment for a week.

Good luck, Jim. I like the $1995 BMCC (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CWLSHUK?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creativeASIN=B00CWLSHUK&linkCode=xm2&tag=din0a-20)'s 2.5K resolution, but it still has an unresolved black dot problem:


Blackmagic Photosite Overload on Vimeo


and the "push to autofocus" firmware upgrade is coming (http://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=10728), but hasn't been released yet.


On the other hand, the black dot problem has been resolved on the BMPCC (http://www.adorama.com/VDBMCCP.html?kbid=68009):


Pocket CInema Camera - Black Hole Sun is BANISHED on Vimeo


And push-to-autofocus works in the current firmware release.

Cheers,

Bill
Hybrid Camera Revolution (http://hybridcamerarevolution.blogspot.com)

As to which Blackmagic camera…. collect them all and swap them with your friends. ;)

Considering how much RAW/ProRes based cameras are, one can consider getting a few different ones at these prices.

I look at the Pocket for covering certain types of uses.
I'm certainly interested in the 4k… primarily for global shutter and Super 35 sensor, although slightly reduced dynamic range.
On the other hand the BMCC 2.5k has both the EF (active) and MFT option (although not active like the Pocket).

For me, the most important factor is size. Even rigged or stabilized, the Pocket can be a bit smaller given its weight.

4k also gives you option to repo shots. 2.5k to a lesser extent. Both allow for post stabilization without resolution lose if working in HD.

After all, I can get the 4K, 2.5k, Pocket for not much more than my single Sony PMW-EX1 cost me when new.

Hmm - thanks for all the info. Have to admit that I'm sort of thinking of maybe getting its big brother instead. I already have quite a collection of Canon EF glass for my still cameras so wouldn't have to invest in a new lens - I have 16 - 35 and 14mm lenses so should have reasonably wide coverage.I"ll probably rent one and experiment for a week.

Alas some are waiting with hope for the eventual Metabones Canon to MFT Speed Booster.

I was thinking of getting a bmpcc to shoot interviews, what is the "Best" way to record audio into camera.

The best way is to buy a camera that's designed for it.

I was thinking of getting a bmpcc to shoot interviews, what is the "Best" way to record audio into camera.


Hi Brent - For my interview setup, I use a $28.75 (with shipping) Wooden Camera hotshoe adapter (http://www.adorama.com/WC142000.html?kbid=68009), a $27 Kamerar Hot Shoe Extension, a used Audio Technica shotgun mic mounted on a $30 Campro Deluxe Shock Mount - connected to a Marshall hot shoe swivel adapter - mounted Zoom H1 with a $17 Hosa line matching transformer, and a $27 Sescom line to mic cable (http://www.adorama.com/SELN2ZOOMH4N.html?kbid=68009) connecting the Zoom to the BMPCC (http://www.adorama.com/VDBMCCP.html?kbid=68009).

I use the BMPCC (http://www.adorama.com/VDBMCCP.html?kbid=68009) headphone out for monitoring.

I turn the BMPCC (http://www.adorama.com/VDBMCCP.html?kbid=68009) input down until I lose the noise and use the recorder output volume to set my level.

Even though the Tascam DR-40 is pictured here instead of the Zoom, this will give you an idea of how the setup looks:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-3Ytw_NFmjcQ/UlC1Nx4Ph1I/AAAAAAAAIKY/j3PXIU0U9oQ/w723-h542-no/P1060006.JPG

I use the Zoom H1 instead of the DR-40 because the Zoom has an easy to access output level control.

To give credit where credit is due, I got this idea from Professor Duy Linh Tu at the Columbia School of Journalism, who uses a Canon EOS M for interviews:


EOS-M Video Setup on Vimeo


I'm probably going to get a $99 Wooden Camera cage (http://www.adorama.com/WC168800.html?kbid=68009) for the BMPCC (http://www.adorama.com/VDBMCCP.html?kbid=68009), because this setup puts a lot of stress on the 1/4 - 20 screw mount on top of the camera.

With this setup, I get clean in-camera sound and a high quality backup for not a lot of money.

Hope this is helpful,

Bill
Hybrid Camera Revolution (http://hybridcamerarevolution.blogspot.com)