Hello All.
I'm about to sell my 4 year old EX-3 and purchase a new PMW-300K1
I have a few questions regarding the new model:

1. The XVAC upgrade that is planned for 2014 - what will it bring?
Obviously the camera can't record 4K, so will it be a higher bitrate? maybe 4:4:4? any info on that?
2. This question is directly linked to the first one - if the upgrade won't bring 4:4:4 recording in-camera -
I am considering on buying an external monitor/recorder - the Convergent Design Odyssey7Q.
In order to record 4:4:4 these recorders require 3G-SDI signal from the camera. Will the PMW-300 have this output option?
3. In case this will not be an option (I will not need a recorder to record 4:2:2 since the camera does that) -
Any recommendations for a good field monitor? I am considering a 7" BON or TV Logic.

Many questions...
Any help is greatly appreciated...

Arbel.

Arbel ~

It will bring you XAVC 10-bit 422 @100-mbit. That's the latest I have heard to date. No 444 for sure. See attached brochure.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

The camera ships with 50mb/sec enabled. 4:2:2.

Arbel ~

It will bring you XAVC 10-bit 422 @100-mbit. That's the latest I have heard to date. No 444 for sure. See attached brochure.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Thanks for the info Chris.
If that is the case, then the XAVC should be a much better codec if it's worth an upgrade just to double the bit rate but no increase in bit depth to 12 bit.
In any way we should start stocking up on memory cards...

On the internal recording side that's an increase from 8 bit (XDcam codecs are 8 bit) to 10 bit. So it may pay off if you're thinking about doing some elaborate grading. Plus of course the better usability of the viewfinder and a bunch of other improved features....

The sensors see no benefit from increasing from 10 to 12 bit since they are by design noisy compared to larger Super35 sensors.

4:4:4 however may be possible, but the internal circuitry only processes at 4:2:2 and outputs over SDI at 4:2:2.

Specs also don't indicate it will support 1080p60, because that requires 200Mbps XAVC in order to record. I'm holding off purchasing this since by the time the XAVC upgrade comes, only recording 30p would still kind of be laughed at with the move to 60p.

Hope not.. 50/60p looks terrible..

4:4:4 out would require 3G HDSDI and I don't know that the HDSDI is 3G capable.

Hope not.. 50/60p looks terrible..

Not everyone shoots cinematic content - for verité and sports content, 60P looks phenomenal.

What we DO need is an appropriate consumer delivery system for 60P...

Not everyone shoots cinematic content - for verité and sports content, 60P looks phenomenal.

What we DO need is an appropriate consumer delivery system for 60P...

That is looking less and less likely as broadcast standards may skip over 1080p60 and head straight to 4K60p.

The only possible delivery method is AVCHD 2.0, and that's not a BD spec. Standard BD spec limits to 1080i60 or 1080p24. To deliver 30p on a BD, you have to use PsF.

That is looking less and less likely as broadcast standards may skip over 1080p60 and head straight to 4K60p.

You will notice I didn't SPECIFICALLY list 1080P60, although it would be easy to imply.

I'm just getting REALLY tired of the ciné folks insisting that only 24P matters.

That is looking less and less likely as broadcast standards may skip over 1080p60 and head straight to 4K60p.
I think it's highly likely that next generation broadcast standards may go even higher - 4K at even higher framerates - 120fps, maybe more. I certainly agree that it's highly unlikely that they'll go through any change solely to limit to 1080p/60.

Setting that as the standard doesn't therefore mean all transmissions would have to be such - it would still allow transmissions in all current standards, plus 4K at 24-60fps, let alone 1080p/60.

Before anyone talks about bandwidth, then doubling the framerate does not mean doubling transmitted data rate, assuming an interframe system. Such relies on keeping the time period between I-frames the same (say 1/2 sec), so you're only increasing the number of difference frames. Since they are of smaller size than I-frames, then datarate does not increase in proportion to framerate.

To pick up on Jacks earlier point, then is there any possibility the PMW300 may have a long-GOP mode of XAVC? To allow 60p mode with much less than 200Mbs?

my pmw-300 arrived

Not everyone shoots cinematic content - for verité and sports content, 60P looks phenomenal.

What we DO need is an appropriate consumer delivery system for 60P...

Sure personal preference .. I would agree for sports only 50/60p could be a bonus.. but otherwise it really looks very "electronic " and sort of cheap somehow.. I,d hate to have those frames rates imposed on me.. after all the effort thats gone into making video look nicer..

Well, as far a the "Look" of 25p/50p video goes -
we have been somewhat of "brainwashed" by decades of filmaking technology to think stroby video looks "better" and more "cinematic".
When you come to think about it, when we move our head from side to side, the image our eyes see does not strobe in any way whatsoever.
I admit to the sin that to me interlaced and 50p video also looks "cheap" and not professional.
But the only reason for that is what I grasp as "quality" look, and nothing else.

That being said, I think that I will take a while before the 25p/30p cameras become outdated, and after 4 years of loyal service I believe the EX-3 can step aside with great respect,
and I'm pretty confident the PMW-300 will bring an equal (if not better) ROI for my type of cinematographers.
And after the answers from Alister and others - Would an external recorder like the Odyssey 7Q bring any use coupled with the PMW-300?

To pick up on Jacks earlier point, then is there any possibility the PMW300 may have a long-GOP mode of XAVC? To allow 60p mode with much less than 200Mbs?

The PDF Q&A provided by Sony did state it was 100MB/s. If this was I-frame only, this means no 50p/60p in 1080. Long GOP is a different story though. Sony wasn't specific when describing the XAVC recording capabilities.

No benefits with an external recorder when XAVC 10 bit is on the camera!

Well, as far a the "Look" of 25p/50p video goes -
we have been somewhat of "brainwashed" by decades of filmaking technology to think stroby video looks "better" and more "cinematic".
When you come to think about it, when we move our head from side to side, the image our eyes see does not strobe in any way whatsoever.
I admit to the sin that to me interlaced and 50p video also looks "cheap" and not professional.
But the only reason for that is what I grasp as "quality" look, and nothing else.

That being said, I think that I will take a while before the 25p/30p cameras become outdated, and after 4 years of loyal service I believe the EX-3 can step aside with great respect,
and I'm pretty confident the PMW-300 will bring an equal (if not better) ROI for my type of cinematographers.
And after the answers from Alister and others - Would an external recorder like the Odyssey 7Q bring any use coupled with the PMW-300?

Not sure if its brainwashing.. The Hobbit 48p version had a lot of the general public.. who don't know anyway thing about HFR.. "not liking the look" saying it looked cheap and not believable.. . there is something about those HFR that makes things look too "real" great for sports but little easel i think..

BTW, does anyone has any experience with the Convergent Design Odyssey 7Q,
as a recorder and as a field monitor with the EX-3/EX-1?

One more question:
Will the SDHC adapters be able to record 50 mb/s 4:2:2 in the PMW-300?

No, because SDHC/SDXC uses the FAT32 file system and 4:2:2 specifically requires the UDF filesystem.

You can use XQD cards which do support UDF, and provide similar performance to SxS with future proofing for Sony's 4K offerings down the line.

Thank for the info!

Hi all,

Just to update on the XAVC question for the PMW-300. Spoke with Hugo Gaggioni Sony's Chief Technology Officer for the Broadcast and Production Systems and the official word on this is this:

"The chip can do long or intra. The 100 Mbps is only for those regions in the world that would like to code 50 or 60Hz interlace in intraframe manner. We will introduce 100 Mbps intra during the summer first and then introduce 35/50 Mbps long GoP in the fall."

In relation to weather this upgrade will be free (as with the PMW-400) i was told it is TBD (to be decided)

Hope that is of some help to you.

Michael, thank you very much for that.

Any chance you can hit him up for the PMW-300 manual being available online? I'd like to read through it in detail before so much as bothering a camera sales rep.

Andrew

Hi Andrew,

The manual is available (as far as i know) on the support section of the PMW-300K1 page on the Sony website. Check out this link:

PMW-300K1 (PMW300K1) : Support : United Kingdom : Sony Professional (http://www.sony.co.uk/pro/product/broadcast-products-camcorders-xdcam/pmw-300k1/support#support)

Hi all,

Just to update on the XAVC question for the PMW-300. Spoke with Hugo Gaggioni Sony's Chief Technology Officer for the Broadcast and Production Systems and the official word on this is this:

"The chip can do long or intra. The 100 Mbps is only for those regions in the world that would like to code 50 or 60Hz interlace in intraframe manner. We will introduce 100 Mbps intra during the summer first and then introduce 35/50 Mbps long GoP in the fall."

In relation to weather this upgrade will be free (as with the PMW-400) i was told it is TBD (to be decided)

Hope that is of some help to you.

There's all the proof that there will be no 1080p50/60 I-frame. 50mbps still has a remote possibility it could be 1080p50/60, but by that time, cameras that do that natively with 4K will have already replaced the 300.

...I'm just getting REALLY tired of the ciné folks insisting that only 24P matters.

I'm in Australia. Only 25P matters. :-P

Andrew

For those that it may be of help, the PMW-300 K1 operations manual, saving you from logging in to a web site to be able to access it.

Andrew