So at the first of the year, I'm making the move to replace my Sony Z1u/V1u setup with the purchase of two cameras. I was looking at the XF300 last year, but waited a year to see what else came out. CF/SD recording is big at least for me since I do a lot of hours, sometimes 6 to 8 yours x2 cameras. I also am researching the Sony HXR-NX3 which actually hasn't been released yet. It records to SD cards and SDHC. Although It's not easy to compare the apples especially the low light capability. I'm sure anything will be an upgrade from HDV, but I want to get the biggest bang for my buck since I keep my cameras till I have to replace them.

So I'm open to any thoughts or opinion. It's a load of change for the purchase so I want to get it right. Thanks in advance and Happy Holidays to all my DVINFO friends.

I upgraded to the XF305 this summer from an XHA1s and it was seriously one of the best moves I've ever made. I absolutely love the camera. I know the price is higher but it is totally worth it.

As usual, it depends what you are shooting. I have both the xf305 and the C100. They are both fabulous cameras, and I use them in different ways. I must say, as much as I love the xf305, I usually shoot the C100. But that's me. what do you shoot?

They guys at BH just told me that the Sony only does 422 to HDMI and not to the cards. That's probably enough to make me buy the Canon.

For as many pro cameras that Sony has it amazes me that very few of them can do 4:2:2 to their cards. I'm not bashing the company though because their top end stuff is killer.

They guys at BH just told me that the Sony only does 422 to HDMI and not to the cards. That's probably enough to make me buy the Canon.

STOP! The problem is that you're not comparing the right cameras. The HXR-NX3 is a low-end camera, $1500 cheaper than the XF300, and it's not even part of Sony's XDCAM lineup. Forget about it.

If you want to compare apples to apples you should be comparing the XF300 to the PMW-160. Both of them record 50 Mbps HD422, have three 1/3" sensors, and are priced the same. The PMW-160 has a lot of extra features not found on the XF300, but at least they are both in the same league.

However, if you can afford to take a bigger step up than that, you might want to take a closer look the PMW-200 or PMW-300 with 1/2" sensors. That may or may not be worth the extra cost to you, but they are worth considering.

BTW, I'd much rather have a PMW-100 than an HXR-NX3, and the 100 is several hundred dollars cheaper and blows the NX3 away in features and performance. So if money is tight, the PMW-100 is the camera to be looking at.

My 2 cents.

Doug is talking sense, compare similarly priced cameras.

you should also take a long hard look at the ex1r, it's the only one in this range with the larger sensors which make a difference in low light and get you a bit shallower depth. the pmw-200 is the newer version with the better codec, but years of use from a wide range of pros will tell you the ex1 is a solid solid performer. looks like they go used for well under 5K in excellent condition

STOP! The problem is that you're not comparing the right cameras. The HXR-NX3 is a low-end camera, $1500 cheaper than the XF300, and it's not even part of Sony's XDCAM lineup. Forget about it.

If you want to compare apples to apples you should be comparing the XF300 to the PMW-160. Both of them record 50 Mbps HD422, have three 1/3" sensors, and are priced the same. The PMW-160 has a lot of extra features not found on the XF300, but at least they are both in the same league.

However, if you can afford to take a bigger step up than that, you might want to take a closer look the PMW-200 or PMW-300 with 1/2" sensors. That may or may not be worth the extra cost to you, but they are worth considering.

BTW, I'd much rather have a PMW-100 than an HXR-NX3, and the 100 is several hundred dollars cheaper and blows the NX3 away in features and performance. So if money is tight, the PMW-100 is the camera to be looking at.

My 2 cents.

Yeah, the Sony was just one of them I was comparing. After all this I get why the Sony is so much cheaper. .

Yes, not knowing the Sony camera line well, I couldn't advise you there, but you owe it to yourself to compare the right cameras. I would certainly take a close look at the Sony. Not sure what it has that the XF300/305 doesn't have, I was under the belief they were virtually identical, except for the use of standard CF cards in the Canon. But I can't say for sure. Sony is a great product line and Doug, who's videos I've bought in the past, really knows both cameras well, as he's done videos on how to get the best out of both of them.

One has 1/3" inch chips and the other 1/2". How can they be identical? There are also ergonomic differences like the high flying mic holder on the PMW-200, the PMW-200's LCD that conflicts with most things on the shoe and Canon's zoom switch that disables manually zooming when you have the power zoom switched on and vice versa. Probably more. One might get used to these or, on the other hand, end up in the slipper farm from them. YMMV

Les, if you go back and re-read my post you'll see that I'm recommending that he compare the XF300 to the PMW-160. Both of those cameras have 1/3" sensors and similar specifications. Apple to apples.

I also suggested that if he had the budget he might want to take a closer look at the PMW-200 or PMW-300 which I think give you even more bang for the buck. But not everyone has the budget for thoses. And I suggested that if he wants to spend less than the cost of a XF300 or PMW-160, then the logical choice is the PMW-100.

But the main point of my post was that he should NOT be comparing the XF300 to the HXR-NX3 because they have practically nothing in common.

Steven Davis...definitely take the time to evaluate the different platforms.

IMHO, I made a mistake in getting the Sony HXR-NX5U (similar features to the Sony HXR-NX3 with AVCHD (H.264).

I eventually sold the 'NX5U' and purchased the new XDCAM 4:2:2 PMW-200 and am very pleased with my decision. I much prefer the workflow of XDCAM CODEC. I never really got comfortable with AVCHD. Though, I'm probably in the minority?

I hope this helps.

Best regards,

J.

Thanks guys. Happy New Year by the way!

I'm leaning towards the Canon since it fits our current business model. Call me old fashioned but, I like the fact that it records directly to CF cards. We sometimes walk away with 6 hours plus (x2) hours of coverage so the SxS card's price point themselves out of range. And I know with the Sony, it has an SxS adapter for the CF cards, but in live events, I really don't want to be fiddling with an adapter where seconds do matter, it's just something else that can spazz out.

I imagine in another five years I'll revisit the newer technologies. Thanks again for all the input.

Steven, there isn't an adapter to use CompactFlash cards in a Sony camcorder. The CF cards are too large.

However, there are adapters for SDHC, Memory Stick, and XQD cards. Out of those three, the only one that I would recommend is the XQD cards. I'm not going to give you the big sales pitch on them, but they blow CF cards out of the water in performance and reliablity. Do a Google search and compare the specifications. If you don't want to spend money on SxS cards (understandable) the XQD cards are a very, very good substitute.

I've never had an XQD card or an SxS card fail on me. But I've had two Canon approved CF cards fail on me with the XF305 -- and I don't even get me started on how crappy SDHC cards are in any professional camera.

If you go with XQD cards, you just put the card in the adapter and let it live there. Get an adapter (about $30) for each card and just leave the card in there. There's no fumbling around in the middle of a shoot.

There may be other reasons to choose one camera over another, but I certainly wouldn't choose the Canon just because it shoots on CF cards . . . just the opposite.

Forgive my mis-type. Correct, it's the SDHC cards. I mix in my Nikon D800s so I was trying to keep media the same across the board. I was looking at the Sony PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM Camcorder PXW-Z100 B&H Photo Digital 4K Video Camera Recorder FDR-AX1 B&H Photo[/url] which uses XQD cards, till I called B&H and the dude told me that 4K has not caught up to 'low light' performance yet. So I moved my thoughts away from 4k. I'll take another look at it though. The XQD cards are atleast reasonable.

You're right to exclude the Z100 from the selection process. It's an interesting camera for what it is, but it's not a viable alternative to the XF300 or PMW-160.

Hey Doug, what camera do you have that uses the XQD cards?

The PMW-F55 right now. I've been able to record 50Mbps HD422 XDCAM and 4K XAVC simultaneously to a single card without any problems. Lots a lot of data. And I don't even have the latest, greatest, type of XQD card.

I have also used them quite a bit with the PMW-200, 160, and 100. I think they would work with my EX1 (new in 2007) if I updated to the latest firmware, but I'm not 100% sure on that.

Rock solid and nice little cards. Even when you just pick them up you can tell they are a physically better built card than any of the others. The closest equivalent in size and construction are the CF cards, but those scare me after I've had two SanDisks fail me.

Thank you Doug. Happy New Year!

Happy new year folks!

What camera did you choose in the end then?

A bit OT but, pity those XQD cards aren't as reasonable this side of the pond!! a 32 Gb XQD + adaptor is €371compared to the Sony SxS 32 Gb which is €336.
For economic reasons I've been using a 64 Gb SxS in slot A and a Sony MEAD-SD02 Adaptor with a Sandisc 64 Gb SDXC card, in slot B as a backup on my PMW 200, havent need to use it yet as the SxS seems to be big enough for what i'm doing.
One thing that always concerns me with CF cards (and I use them a lot) is the possibility of borking any of the 50 receiving pins in the camera.

CF technology having been around since the mid 90's is getting old by now especially with the advent of cards like XQD which are the furure i suspect.

Have shot with both CF cards and SD cards for at least four years. Always Sandisk extreme pro or earlier equivelant. Never a card failure from CF. SD cards failed once in a while. Have shot in rain and snow, and 100% humidty. Main thing, get a dual card system, and record to both at once on one time only paid or unique shoots.

Happy new year folks!

What camera did you choose in the end then?

Hey James, I'm still deciding. Between the Z100 and XF300, it's a 1900.00 difference based on units and accessories.

Interesting. Let us know how it all shakes out and what your reasons were no matter which way you go.
I can't imagine a scenario where those two cameras would be the two choices.

Interesting. Let us know how it all shakes out and what your reasons were no matter which way you go.
I can't imagine a scenario where those two cameras would be the two choices.

Yeah Doug, it's one of those, 'go with reliable' or 'plan for the future' I have the Sony Z1u which has performed flawlessly, a true rock solid camera, the precurser to the Z100 in a sense.

I just read this, Canon XF300 / XF305 Camcorder Review (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/camcorders/canon-xf300.shtml) which is a great review of the XF300. Probably one of the best reviews I've read on a camera in a long time.

Les, if you go back and re-read my post you'll see that I'm recommending that he compare the XF300 to the PMW-160. Both of those cameras have 1/3" sensors and similar specifications. Apple to apples.

<insert sound of hand smacking forehead> Sorry. I bobbled that one.

No problem. I've been guilty of that on more than one occasion myself.

Well, I received my XF300 demo unit today. I laughed a little because the first camera in my business was a Canon GL2, and this one reminded me a little of it.

Does anyone have current information on how long your battery lasts in a long day? Couple of hours, more?

I've had an XF300 for 3 years now & get almost a day out of a BP-975. Of course it greatly depends on how much you use the zoom servo, lcd screen & phantom power etc. Environmental temperature seems to have little effect on battery run times, which I fine strange. I shoot a lot in the Med in the summer, as well as northern latitudes like Finland. Canon batteries are expensive but reliable in my experience.

I've had an XF300 for 3 years now & get almost a day out of a BP-975. Of course it greatly depends on how much you use the zoom servo, lcd screen & phantom power etc. Environmental temperature seems to have little effect on battery run times, which I fine strange. I shoot a lot in the Med in the summer, as well as northern latitudes like Finland. Canon batteries are expensive but reliable in my experience.

Thanks Chris. My current setup, I get 4 hours max out of my batteries, the older batteries, not even that much.

I looked through the menu, and maybe I missed it, but is there a way to illuminate the side panel? I do a lot of low light work.

By demo unit, do you mean you have one to play with for a short time, or you bought one?

By demo unit, do you mean you have one to play with for a short time, or you bought one?

I have one to play with for a short time.

I looked through the menu, and maybe I missed it, but is there a way to illuminate the side panel? I do a lot of low light work.

If you mean the left side LCD panels, no, I don't believe there is. It does not say so in the manual. I usually use either my iPhone or carry a little pocket flashlight.

By the way, you should download the manual. It's online. I carry a copy in my iPad, and my iPhone.

If you mean the left side LCD panels, no, I don't believe there is. It does not say so in the manual. I usually use either my iPhone or carry a little pocket flashlight.

By the way, you should download the manual. It's online. I carry a copy in my iPad, and my iPhone.

Thanks Al,

I looked at the manual, did a Google, but thought I missed it. That's a little silly not to illuminate it.

Looking at the list of media, Canon XF300 Professional Camcorder 4457B001 B&H Photo Video It's odd that Lexar's showing doesn't work in slomo. I went to the Canon site and some of the recommended media is discontinued. I'll probably buy 8 32gb cards.

Illuminating the Side Panel. Nothing in the Manual. VF and LCD yes, Side Panel no.

Grazie

Illuminating the Side Panel. Nothing in the Manual. VF and LCD yes, Side Panel no.

Grazie


Thanks Graham.

Update;

So far, the testing of the Canon XF300 has been a great success. The only 'head scratching' issues are the side panel not illuminating. Heck I have a crappy still camera that does that. heh. Also, with my steadicam work, that flip out lcd is going to be an adjustment. I've flown a Sony V1u for 7 years or so, and that flat/flip lcd was a life saver considering the lack of stature the steadicam stock lcd has.

Also, the Canon dude has been amazing to work with. The Sony professional people have been a complete failure. I contacted all three Sony Professional reps in Virginia, and none of them even bothered to contact me back, ever.. Then I contacted Sony in general, and it took more than a week for me to hear from them and all they did was give me a local distributor.

So other than some adjustments I've got to make in my workflow. I'm pretty sure the XF300 is going to be the deal.


The Canon rep below has been great to work with. He told me I could give out his name and email.

Mark Karwisch
Account Manager
ITCG Prof Prods Sales Engineer Division
Canon U.S.A., Inc.
5625 Oakbrook Parkway, Norcross, GA 30093
www.usa.canon.com
mkarwisch@cusa.canon.com

For what it's worth, here is a simple test using full auto mode. The first shot is my Sony V1u, the second is my Sony Z1u, the third is the Canon XF300 on it's lower setting and the fourth is on the highest setting. I though it interesting that the V1u had the best zoom. But again, this was just a quick test, nothing crazy.

https://plus.google.com/114460388138084561521/posts/XnhRLorFD8n

Well the twins came this week. Two XF300s from Adorama. I'm pretty happy so far. As mentioned before, i'll have to get used to flying with an lcd out, but I'll live. Taking the step to tapeless doesn't bother me as much because I've used my Nikon D800s and that's gone well.

I picked up batteries, Lexar cards, and two microphones that were recommended for the XF300 but still doesn't fit the diameter of the mic holder lol.

Thanks again for all the input.

Time to sell my two Sony V1us.

Steven, congratulations. You made a wise decision. I have had mine for a couple of years and I am still amazed at the quality of video I get out of it. Go to the Under Water Over Land forum and look at the video I shot in Alaska using the Canon XF300. Enjoy your new toys. Bob

Steven, congratulations. You made a wise decision. I have had mine for a couple of years and I am still amazed at the quality of video I get out of it. Go to the Under Water Over Land forum and look at the video I shot in Alaska using the Canon XF300. Enjoy your new toys. Bob

Thanks Bob.

Congrats on making the move. I have been using my 305 heavily this week for the first time in a while and it continues to amaze me. I don't know where I would be without the built in wave form monitor.