Canon's February 6, 2014, which is the new dual pixel AF C100?? :-)

Thanks

Umm....what?

I believe Docea is drawing attention to Canon's statement from last November that its dual-pixel AF technology currently found in the EOS 70D would be made available to the Cinema EOS C100 sometime in February as a service center modification for $500 (full details here: http://www.dvinfo.net/news/canon-offers-dual-pixel-af-upgrade-for-eos-c100.html). Therefore I have changed the thread title from "Canon is FEBRUARY 2014 :-)" to "Canon it's Feb. 2014, is the C100 AF upgrade available yet?"

Hope this helps,

Thanks Chris....

Canon has the C100 with the upgrade in the hands of pros at the moment so they must be in the final stages of testing. Philip Bloom and Joe Simon have been tweeting about it this week.

Will newly manufactured C100's feature the tech already integrated?

Canon have stated that no, it won't and will always be a paid for upgrade.

Danny is right -- I confirmed this verbally with Canon USA several months ago. There will be no change in the C100 production & manufacturing process. It's always going to be an optional upgrade if you want to pay for it.

Gotcha...thanks. I thought I remembered hearing that somewhere, but I was sorta hoping I was wrong, hehe.

There probably won't be a C100a or C105 coming then. :)

The Sony F3 had a paid upgrade to unlock S-Log that they charged $3000 for which was only firmware, few months later it was free.

But in this case, it's not a bit of firmware. I've heard it hinted that some engineering work is required that needs to be done, and then carefully lined up. This sounds about right - if all cameras had this, it would make them more expensive. This way, only those who really want/need it have to pay.

Having said that, wallet at the ready... (taps foot impatiently).

Matt is right -- for the C100 it also requires a hardware change, thus the trip to a factory service center. And it's optional so if you don't need it, you're not paying for it.

There was a lot of information and discussion about the C100 Dual Pixel CMOS AF back in November, both here on this forum and on DSLR Newsshooter, with Dan Chung gently squeezing a lot of information out of the enigmatic Yoshinari Onda, Canon Cinema EOS Global Product Manager.

Inter BEE 2013: Newsshooter talks C100 Dual Pixel CMOS AF with Canon's Mr Onda on Vimeo

The C500, 300 and 100 all already have dual pixel sensors. From about 09.45 Mr Onda says that the modification entails new firmware and a ‘service adjustment’ to adjust the sensor output.

At 12.50 they discuss the AF Lock button which adds a degree of functionality. And at 16.16 Mr Onda says they are looking into the possibility of adding this function to the C300.

I’d be interested in that as I’ve already been experimenting with the Continuous AF function using the 18-135 STM lens on the C300, and whilst it’s not very fast it does work accurately and silently so it certainly has it’s uses.

Earlier on in the interview Mr Onda also talks the possibilities of us seeing a eos servo lens product in the near future.

And for those who missed the original post, here is the DSLR Newsshooter demo of the C100 Dual Pixel AF.

Inter BEE 2013: Testing the Canon C100 Dual Pixel CMOS AF on Vimeo

I guess C100 users won’t have that long to wait now.

I’d be interested in that as I’ve already been experimenting with the Continuous AF function using the 18-135 STM lens on the C300, and whilst it’s not very fast it does work accurately and silently so it certainly has it’s uses....


Mark - Can you say a bit more about the 18-135 STM on the C300? How fast is it compared to the Newsshooter Dual Pixel AF video demo sample?

Hi Jon,

It's not anywhere near as fast as the AF demo for the C100. It's faster on solid objects with high contrast.

However it does work and can be useful for certain situations. I used the 18-135 STM today whilst filming a
large business meeting. Feeling rather lazy I was able to get pin sharp closeups around the table with minimal effort on my part.

Its resolves focus very fast in 'one shot AF' mode and slower in continuous mode. Like wise the Auto / one shot Iris is very smooth.

I've been using the 18-135mm STM since it's launch. A lot of people really don't like it, partially I think because it does not have a fixed aperture, is made of plastic, utilises 'fly by wire' focusing and is not a 'L' lens.

I like it because of its focal range, it's lightness, it's quietness and because it is very sharp. So for me it's a useful lens to have in the bag. I imagine that Canon will incorporate STM technology into it's 'L' series soon.

Hi Jon,

It's not anywhere near as fast as the AF demo for the C100. It's faster on solid objects with high contrast.

However it does work and can be useful for certain situations. I used the 18-135 STM today whilst filming a
large business meeting. Feeling rather lazy I was able to get pin sharp closeups around the table with minimal effort on my part.

Its resolves focus very fast in 'one shot AF' mode and slower in continuous mode. Like wise the Auto / one shot Iris is very smooth.

I've been using the 18-135mm STM since it's launch. A lot of people really don't like it, partially I think because it does not have a fixed aperture, is made of plastic, utilises 'fly by wire' focusing and is not a 'L' lens.

I like it because of its focal range, it's lightness, it's quietness and because it is very sharp. So for me it's a useful lens to have in the bag. I imagine that Canon will incorporate STM technology into it's 'L' series soon.

Thanks Mark! All good to know.

I haven't tried much on the new C300 FW other than focus area for MF and using the Lens Exchange feature.

The website was just updated and the upgrade is now officially available - Canon U.S.A. : EOS C100 Feature Upgrade (http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/professional/standard_display/eos_c100_feature_upgrade)

Just got off the phone with Canon. Got the address of where to ship to, and an estimate of 5 business days turnaround. Shipping costs not included.

I see there are currently two threads about this. Just for info I posted something in this thread (perhaps should have posted it here instead).

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/wedding-event-videography-techniques/521875-c100-autofocus-upgrade-joe-simon.html#post1834121

Has there been any feed back regarding how long this upgrade process takes? Also, will they upgrade the firm ware if needed?

I assume this upgrade will have no effect on total manual lenses? Meaning light metering, focusing aids will not be effected if a manual lens is used?

Thanks

I just sent mine in today from Seattle, WA to their service center in Los Angeles, CA. I'll report back when it's finished but Canon quoted me 5 business days.

I live minutes from the Canon Service department in Irvine I planned on dropping off my C100 this week and I can find out exactly how involved it is with the technicians.

I would like to hear from those who have the AF upgrade installed how the low light performance is. Specifically, how fast does it lock into focus compared to normal lighting and does it hunt before it achieves focus. Does it reach a point in very low light where it can't achieve focus. For example - a low light wedding reception.

I received my Dual Pixel autofocus sensor upgrade yesterday. In 2 business days it was complete, 2 business days for return. They updated the firmware (without asking) to the current 2.0.3.1.00.

In my ad hoc unprofessional assessment on a Canon EF 16-35MM 2.8, it works as advertised, The better the lighting/ISO the more rapid/immediate the focus. In very low lighting without proper ISO adjustments the focus typically needs to hunt a few oscillations around true focus, but it tends to find it and hold. In these very low light settings, cranking the ISO up to a usable exposure returns the rapid/immediate focus.

It is important to remember to have external audio or be using MOS footage, as the auto focusing lenses are noisy robots.

Also: not sure if it was the firmware upgrade or the sensor/auto focus firmware upgrade, but the camera's internal clock was wrong and could not be manually adjusted in the menu on return. I called Canon prior to trying a hard reset. The tech agreed it was weird behavior, he couldn't offer an explanation and agreed I should do a hard reset. This worked and allowed me to reset time, and everything else...

Will be looking forward, with everyone else, to the next firmware that allows manual adjustment of the auto focusing region. Overall, a very appreciated feature for the right situations.

Thanks Eric for your answer. That's exactly the info I was looking for.

I got to test the new C100 AF at WPPI last week and found it quite useful in well lit situations.
No facial recognition and trouble in low light may be a problem in the real world, but I'm willing to pay for the upgrade.

Everyone asked if this would be a feature in new units and the universal answer was no.
Check back next year.

Hallo Eric

Is possible to make a video most conclusive test..with several types of lenses and frames coated in dark areas :-)I want to do this step myself with my camcorder C100, but I have not seen a conclusive test to convince me it's worth it to make investment.and honestly prefer raw footage .. not one advertisement published by Canon :-)

Thanks...thanks in advance

honestly prefer raw footage .. not one advertisement published by Canon

Does Dan Chung's recent test count? Yes, shot at a Canon facility, but certainly not a 'Canon ad' LOL - at around 1.17 (IIRC) is it Dan who we can hear saying 'I honestly can't fault it'.

C100 Dual Pixel CMOS AF upgrade production sample test on Vimeo

Due to the popularity of the upgrade in the UK, I have to wait until 31st March to get it done. I think Canon may re-think its 'only available via paid upgrade' stance and sometime next year 'they'll all have it'.

Thanks Matt.....

Thanks for the feedback, sounds like 5 business turnaround is the norm, which is great.

The video clip was very helpful. I can see this feature working well when I need to pan or change the framing slightly and focus on subjects at different focal lengths. But will this feature also follow a subject (within reason) when they move and maintain focus. I would also like to use this feature during a close up scene with a very shallow DoF. Will the focus lock on if the subject/actor’s head moves out of the normal focal plane if set at like a F/2.0?


Thanks

Do the new C100's have this already? or will a brand new C100 have to be shipped off as well?

"Everyone asked if this would be a feature in new units and the universal answer was no.
Check back next year."

In Romania this cost 500 EUR..is too expensive and not worth the investment to do this in the C100, I prefer to buy a Ninja Blade 730 EUR..I say it is overpriced .. 500 eur and will not give money astia.Si 400 eur was so much ..but 500 EUR is too much for autofocus ..

Do the new C100's have this already? or will a brand new C100 have to be shipped off as well?

"Everyone asked if this would be a feature in new units and the universal answer was no."


Just to clarify one more time, this is an *optional upgrade* which means there is no change to the way C100's are made. If you buy a new C100 today and you want the AF upgrade, you will have to ship it off.

Anyone know how well the focus works with the Canon 17-55 2.8? Debating picking it up specifically with this upgrade.

Yes. It works very well and fast, almost too fast. It works with most EF and EF-S lenses as well as STM ones. See another thread I posted on about the Dual Pixel AF upgrade, link in post #18 in this thread.

Mods, I suggest you amalgamate the thread in the Wedding/Events section with this one to avoid confusion/even more duplication...

Hallo

You can change Aperture while continuous video filming on focus?

Thanks

Hello, if somebody help me with information, I want to send C100 in service in Italy to make sensor update
I need to send anything besides C 100 empty? what accessories should send out the C100?
Thanks

I also would appreciate information about how to send in my C100, sorry if this has been answered by now. Is there a link to canon that describes the address/process. I live in Wisconsin. Is the turnaround time still very good? I absolutely must have it back by April 1st.

If you're in the U.S. you should really call or email Canon EOS Cinema Service directly to get the most accurate information about what to include and turn-around times for the upgrade. They are extremely helpful and their customer service is really great.

1-855-246-3367 or CinemaEOS@cits.canon.com

Thanks for that information. I will call tomorrow.

Here are my thoughts on the upgrade so far:

Turn around time from Pacific Northwest to Westcoast was 7 business days.

I tested this on a Canon 16-35mm 2.8 ii, Tokina 11-16 ii 2.8, Sigma 18-35mm 1.8, and a Canon 70-200. Unfortunately the sigma 18-35 does not work at anything beyond 1.8.

The AF worked really well on all the lenses. The order of quickness and smoothness was:
1. Sigma 18-35mm
2. Canon 70-200
3. Canon 16-35mm
4. Tokina 11-16 (this was a bit slower than the rest)

AF soise is similar to the order above except with the Sigma being louder than the Canons and the Tokina being much louder than the rest.

The AF only looks somewhat natural and "focus pulled" on the 18-35mm, everything else snaps into focus very quickly and abruptly. This is both a pro and a con for me as I'm using the upgrade to check focus quickly at weddings.

The AF seemed to work quite well in moderately low light settings.

One problem I noticed is that if you have a large depth of field between a subject in the foreground/background, the AF takes a long time to adjust on the Canon lenses (when something is in front of the camera and switching between things in the background a few feet away). There was literally 2-3 seconds where the camera was not adjusting focus then the AF would kick in.

The focus lock feature is very nice and I believe will prove invaluable during event interviews and candid focus pulls.

It's a shame the Sigma doesn't work at anything higher than 1.8 because that lens easily has the fastest and most natural looking AF. Hopefully Sigma releases an update to the lenses' firmware to resolve this.

This is a real problem??I found this on youtube..months and I want to send C 100 Canon service .. but after seeing this footage does not know what to do.I think it is not filmed with C 100..I HOPE

Canon EOS C100 Dual Pixel CMOS AF Problem 3 (focus unstable after upgrade) - YouTube
Canon EOS C100 Dual Pixel CMOS AF Problem 1 (focus unstable after upgrade) - YouTube

What a funny pair of clips.

Its a bit like throwing a non swimmer into a pool and wondering why they drowned.

Inept camera work onto a, badly lit, ill defined background would throw any autofocus system out.

I'm champing at the bit to get my DPAF done in the UK - long waiting lists, but presumably it's under way and everyone's happy - but looking at those two videos, the focus action seems to be hunting in the way that the traditional contrast based AF systems work.

Specifically, in the first video, the focus goes THE WRONG WAY in the first instance. That's sort of contradicting the 'Phase Detection' process that tells the camera which direction to focus.

Just wondering if this is like the debacle over upgrading to 1.0.3 and 'Suddenly My Atomos Ninja Won't Trigger!' - because of course the camera gets a full reset and you need to restore to that setting you diligently saved before the camera had the firmware update, or (oops) manually check all the nitty gritty settings.

Hallo

if, as is rumored, the NAB will appear C150 to better monitor and AF .. I prefer to wait a bit before sending C100 serviced DUAP PIXEL
Beter i sale my C100 and buy the new model :-) all included

Anyone have a Canon 100mm macro (l or non l) that can see how this upgrade works for objects or products? Thinking about buying one of those lenses (non l preferred) and curious how well it works when the focus plane is so thin.

Sent my C100 off for the upgrade. Getting withdrawal symptoms already :(

I had a chance to put this upgrade to the test at a wedding. Overall it performed exceptionally well but there are a few things to keep in mind when using it.

I tested the lens with a Sigma 18-35mm 1.8, Canon 70-200 2.8, and a Canon 100mm 2.8 Macro (non L).

I used the Sigma for the entire bridal prep and left it wide open for the most part. This is my favorite lens for this upgrade because it has the smoothest and most natural looking rack focus. The AF was very reliable for things like the bride putting on the dress and I was even able to use it for a sliding rack focus shot up close. Be aware the AF on this lens only works at 1.8.

I used the 70-200 for the ceremony and most of the reception. This lens worked almost too well with the AF upgrade because the lens focuses extremely fast. This has a much faster, but "snappier" AF than the Sigma 18-35. This is both good and bad because while it allows you to AF faster, it also means that anything that moves into/near the center frame will be focused on. I found myself using the lock AF feature almost every shot, especially during the ceremony where a shoulder would get near the center of the frame during an over the shoulder shot. Also, the AF tracked very well during the bride's entrance down the isle.

I also used this lens outside during the photo session and it tracked very well in bright sunlight. I was using both the c100's built in ND filters and a graduated ND filter for the sky. so I'm not sure how well the AF would have worked with a blown out sky. The lens was able to perform sliding shots and maintain focus easily.

The Canon 100mm macro was the least useful due to the trouble it has focusing with such a shallow DOF. The lens auto focused fine when using slow panning movements during a shot of the rings, but struggled when tracking a rolling ring moving towards the camera.

The upgrade worked fine in low light of up to 10000-12000 ISO but we were also lighting the reception with a Dedolight 150w that was about 13' up in the air. The AF worked just as well under these conditions using both the 18-35mm and the 70-200mm. I did not test the AF shooting into completely unlit areas with no light unfortunately.

Overall the upgrade is definitely worth the money from a wedding videographer's standpoint, and really takes a lot of stress away during the bridal prep and ceremony where every second counts. I will post some examples from the wedding in a couple of days for anyone curious as to how it worked.

I don't think this piece by Philip Bloom on the C100 Dual Pixel AF has been posted on here yet? Definitely worth watching if you're interested in this upgrade.

Dual Pixel AF on the EOS C100 Digital Video Camera on Vimeo

Thanks for posting the Bloom Dual Pixel video Andy.

He pretty well sums up all the advantages (and disadvantages) of this upgrade. I’ll be booking my C300 in to get this added in May although I’ve not totally made my mind up. I’ll be sorry to lose the contrast based Auto focus we had added at the last firmware upgrade. Although this only works with the 18-135 STM lens it’s actually produces a very nice slow focus pull, similar to how one does it manually. But having said that it does not seem to be as reliable as the new Dual Pixel AF.

The trick clearly is to use the focus lock option.

But really my dream incarnation of this new feature would be to have the ability to set the speed of the focus change, to be able to set where in the frame AF is calculated and to have a face recognition option built in. Could these feature be added in future upgrades? I’m not sure but they already exist in very closely related camera systems, the XF range of camcorders and the Eos 70D.

This video shows the flexibility of the AF on the 70D. ( a fraction of the price of either the C100 or C300 ) Some of these very sophisticated features features shown rely on a touch screen, something this generation of Cinema Eos Cameras does not have.

Canon EOS 70D - The Making - Handmade Short Film (HQ) - YouTube