Greetings! I'm new to videography in a studio setting and I really want to address some of the issues I've been having.

A video of the issue I have: http://youtu.be/gpLLq6JsZMk
Video grab of the problem: http://i.imgur.com/EP2Oexv.jpg.

Details: I am trying to achieve a nice white screen effect with the space I have available. I'm new to studio lighting and this is a complete new experience for me. I'd like the subject not be washed out and not have the bottom left corner of the whitescreen displayed in the final product. I'm not sure what to do with the umbrella light though as our ceiling isn't high enough for it to be over a persons head and without it acting as an additional key light the background doesn't get fully washed out. As shown in the video we have an unused floresent lamp in the ceiling and two unused desk lamps that can be added to the mix if they can somehow magically help this mess.

My camera equipment:
* Camera: Canon T2i
* Lens: 18-55mm f3.4

My lighting equipment: BW Backdrop Support Stand Photography Studio Video Softbox Lighting 3 Kit | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/BW-Backdrop-Support-Stand-Photography-Studio-Video-Softbox-Lighting-3-Kit-/390723902329?ssPageName=ADME:L:OU:US:1120)

Thanks all for any time you'd put in to help me out. Have a nice afternoon.

Wow! Where to start? The only suggestion I could give you is trial and error and then come back and show your results and maybe someone could have a better idea of how to help you.

My personal suggestion would be as I did many years ago before I had my own studio. I partnered with a small church close to my home. I would shoot an occasional church service or event and they would give me access to a community center they had. Before long I had my own key and could use it anytime I wanted.

You have a multitude of problems in that room that to me wouldn't be worth fighting. Good luck!

AL

Think about lighting your subject and the background separately. Light the drop independently and then pull the talent away from the drop to minimize spill. I also think you're making things difficult for yourself by trying to cram everything into that small space. The nice thing about seamless is that you can put it ANYWHERE and the audience will never know. Find a larger area so you can practice setting up and getting the look you want.

Here's a great video showing some basics to the setup: infinite White Backdrop How To - YouTube

I'm not 100% sure I can move to a larger space where I am, but if it were possible, the core problem still stands, am I lacking additional required lighting equipment? If so, specifically what? That video was nice, but the link in it's description doesn't work to find out the specific equipment needed.

My guess? The cheap desk lamps I own are garbage and I need proper lights on stands in front of the subject, and potentially 2 more key lights lighting the backdrop. I'm currently at 9~11 CFL bulbs, and this is really on a very limited budget.

If you have a 3 light kit now give this a try.

Set up 2 of the 3 on the background with soft boxes. Point them so they face the background only. Don't allow ANY of the light energy to fall directly on the subject. It all goes onto the background.

Set up the 3rd light as key on the subject and use the reflector for fill.

Be sure to black out that window and kill the overhead light in the room. You want all the light in the scene to be from your lights.

As an option see if you can set up the backdrop in the corner and shoot diagonally across the room. That could get you some more space between the subject and the backdrop.

My problem is that by doing that, I still have to crank the ISO up to 2500 to white out the background and even without a light shining on me, I'm overexposed and its a mess. I made a new video to replace the old one in the original post visually detailing my issue. I really feel lost.

You need to set your background lights at different heights. Have one light the top of the screen and the other light the bottom. This might sound counterintuitve but you should also move the background lights back a bit to even out the exposure. Have them be closer to you but still slightly behind. They are so close to the background now there is too much contrast from edge to edge due to the inverse square rule of lighting (look that up and get to know it, it will make understanding where your lighting issues are much easier).

Another thing you are overdoing is your exposure on the background. You don't have to blow it out that much to make this work. If you take your background down and iron it the background will look a LOT better with less light.

Before you work on your foreground lighting at all get the background even and under control. Once you do that we can talk about foreground.

If you crank the ISO until the background is overexposed and find that your subject is ALSO overexposed, then there's not enough difference in illmination between the two. You can do 2 things: increase the amount of light on the backdrop (you have already thought of that); or DECREASE the amount of light on your subject. If you can't move the light far enough away, get a cheap dimmer to hook up to your key.

I agree with Chris that an iron makes a BIG difference. Paper rolls are also better at not getting wrinkly. He is also correct that you are going too far with the overexposure in your example. Good luck!

I've had several friends deal with this same headache.

And they, like me, have chosen a different solution.

Fact is...lighting a white background properly while still seeing the talent is very tricky. Not to mention...time consuming.

Thus...the keep it simple solution many of us have chosen, to save a few brain cells.

Green screen.

Easier to light and key.

Key in your chosen white background.

http://www.google.com/search?q=white+hd+background+images&client=safari&rls=en&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=RhRbU6zAIeOx2wXy-ICICw&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1679&bih=930#q=white+hd+background+images&rls=en&tbm=isch&tbs=isz:l

Done!

The problem is...too many are thinking like a still photographer instead of a video..."photographer". ;)

I would urge caution using a green screen for a dslr shoot. In my opinion you will get a better looking result with the white background assuming you can get your lighting sorted. Dslrs can be much trickier pulling a good key versus a more traditional video camera.

I'll admit...I've only done one DSLR green screen and...maybe I was lucky.

That was with a Canon t3i.

We were not using a white keyed background.

All other times I use...pardon the phrase, no offense intended...a "real" video camera.

But...are you suggesting never use a green screen with a DSLR?

I agree 110% with Chris. Learn how to light the white background before messing around with a green screen. Light the BG first-positioned as Chris suggested to light up the BG and then massage them to keep it even and not spilling off onto the talent. Light the talent with your remaining light and a reflector. Keep the ISO down to the least needed, don't try to light with ISO. Really it's not as hard as some think to light a white BG. Back in the 70's as a still photog, I did hundred of model composites. I used 1 200WS strobe on a 42inch umbrella with a homemade reflector. Used 1x1's stapled a silver crinkled material on 1 side and gold on the other. I had a roll of white seamless hanging and that was it. By controlling the light I could get from super white to a dark dirty grey and the talent always came out fine because that's what I exposed for.
Lighting is an art and takes practice to learn the ins and outs. I suggest you do that, that way you won't end up with an ulcer. ;-)

To be a bit blunt if the Brandon is having trouble lighting a basic white background then switching from an unevenly lit white to an unevenly lit green screen with a dslr will be a disaster.

You certainly can have a good key with a dslr if you control the foreground carefully and do a better than average job lighting. I don't think Brandon is ready for that yet. I think he should practice with what he has now and keep going till he figures it out. Then kick off a new challenge such as green screen.

Strictly my opinion.

I don't claim to be some end-all lighting genius...but lighting a green screen is damn easy.

Two wide flat lights. One on either side of the screen.

Pull the talent out, away from the screen and light them.

It's not rocket science.

I use my camera zebras to make sure it's even and I can pretty quickly get it even with that simple, in-camera tool.

I do half a dozen green screen shoots a year for corporate folk.

I've even had a couple of my friends in third world Nicaragua use a couple of umbrella lights on a green screen and...even they have no problem achieving a nice clean key.

To promote a much more complicated and time consuming process...well...I guess that's ok if that's what a person likes to do.

I'd rather get it done faster and save myself time and the client money.

Plus the multiple choices I have to easily change the background white to any grade of white I want without further monkeying with the lights...just seems to make sense to me.

I still don't get why you would think shooting a green screen with a DSLR is any different than using a traditional video camera.

This is just me being curious and not argumentative.

The dslr records with a 4:2:0 chroma subsampling. That means that 75% of the color information is discarded. A traditional video camera can offer 4:2:2 subsampling which gives you more chroma detail and as such a better key. Some cameras can even do 4:4:4 which is pretty much as good as it gets.

This is not to say you can't get a good key using a dslr. It is more challenging and mistakes in lighting and having a suboptimal foreground can make it a lot harder than it should be.

Software Keyers have come a long way and do a great job pulling a usable key from footage that in the past that would have been unusable. That said a basic white background should be even easier and not require a lot of post processing.

Ok, so the lights you're using are pretty anemic. Cheap, but they don't throw as much light as what you need for the shot you want. The single bulb softbox is especially weak. The two 4-bulb boxes are fine.

You need to put more light on your background. If you can't get enough light by backing off the two lights you have (to spread out the light) and ironing the backdrop, you need to buy some more lights. Right now you don't have a real key light for the talent. Another one of those 4-bulb soft boxes would do the trick. Then use the reflector for fill. Stop using those desk lamps. They're not helping and the color temperatures are not the same - one is blue one is orange.

I would say try the tips mentioned in the thread, and if you need some more light, purchase a 2-pack of some larger florescent soft boxes. At least "1000 watts" each: 2000W Digital Photography Studio Softbox Lighting Kit Light Set + Carrying Case by Limo Pro Studio:Amazon:Camera & Photo (http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B005FHZ85A/ref=mp_s_a_1_4?qid=1398483618&sr=8-4&pi=AC_SX110_SY165_QL70)

You could also zoom in to minimize the amount of white you need to evenly light. However, you still don't really have a useable key light in that kit...

One more thing, it's hard to tell in the video, but you don't want the background lights falling into the talent AT ALL. Make sure you're standing in front of them and that they're turned enough towards the background that you're not getting any spill.

If you can't get even illumination on the background, try using a garbage matte in post. I do this with green screen work and it makes the task much easier. Simply put a loose mask around the talent to get rid of the outlying parts of the background.

A Luminance Key can also be used.

FWIW...and again, not being argumentative, simply informative...most of the green screen work I do has been with a PMW EX3 which records to my SXS cards at 4:2:0.

Straight "out of the pipe" via SDI port video is 4:2:2 but we are putting everything onto the installed Sony SXS card.

Video is recorded at 35Mgps.

Never a problem with green screen clip.

It's honestly not hard lighting a green screen using camera zebras to get an even green screen lighting.

Correct...if you don't get an even light on that background, green or white, you will have problems.

But I still feel you have a much wider set of background options using the green screen rather than trying to make all the background decisions before you get to editing in post.

For some reason...lately...clients have loved having a vignette on the white background in post.

Whatever they want!

Nice to be able to adjust things like that after the fact...instead of having to reshoot everything...or leaving a client disappointed or unhappy.

Brandon, don't be seduced by these smooth-talking chroma-keyers. I do corporate shoots with a green screen on a weekly basis, but that's because I want to throw a whole CG set behind them. The #1 rule of no-hassle filmmaking is that if you have your end-result already in mind and can easily achieve it in production, don't leave it for post-production.

You CAN get a usable key from a DSLR, I have done it many times. But you can see the results of your white screen in the viewfinder, whereas you won't realize your keying mistakes until it's too late. With a DSLR you don't have tools like zebra-stripes to help you get even illumination, and in such a small space you will not be able to keep the chroma bleed off of the edges of your subject.

Take a look at 2:45 in my old reel: https://vimeo.com/14755349#t=2m45s

I did this with 2x500W open-faced lights on a white bedsheet background and 1x500w umbrella for the key in a TINY room (smaller than yours). It took a little tweaking in post- to remove the wrinkles.

You can do it! You just need to overexpose your backdrop relative to your subject by the right ratio.

Whoa, there Finn!

What happened to that number one rule you mention?

In one breath you advise not leaving anything to post production...and the next you're explaining how you achieved your nice white background in post to remove wrinkles.

Please...be assured...my comments are just good natured kidding on my part.

Not a shrill, arrogant insult directed at you in any way!

Loved seeing your reel!

Very nice work!

FWIW...and again, not being argumentative, simply informative...most of the green screen work I do has been with a PMW EX3 which records to my SXS cards at 4:2:0.

Straight "out of the pipe" via SDI port video is 4:2:2 but we are putting everything onto the installed Sony SXS card.

Absolutely correct. I won't go into too much detail here as to hijack this thread since our priority should be to help Brandon. As a quick aside - a EX3 is a very different animal shooting green screen versus a dslr. Even when things are somewhat equalized recording to XDCamEX the EX cameras are much better suited for the task. The items that can make a huge difference is the EX1/3 are not shallow DOF cameras (blurry edges can hose your key). Second they are full HD 3 chip cameras that do not have to be debayered where the Canon dslrs actually resolve more like 720p (again, blurry edges can blow your key). Then there is the line skipping the dslr does that creates more aliasing along edges (jagged edges and poorly de-bayered images due to line skipping can blow your key). Where the EX cameras do a little less well than say a 2/3" broadcast camera is in noise. The EX cameras are inherently noisy. That can be mitigated by choosing the correct gamma curve.

All of these things work against getting a good key with a dslr. I'll say again that doesn't prevent you from getting a usable key with one. It just means you need to be better than average with your setup. Since Brandon is admittedly just getting started and since you have many years in the industry, what now seems simple to you (or me) can be mind blowing for someone just getting started. I see this every time I teach a lighting class.

I recommend Brandon not try a chroma key - YET. Until he can light a background evenly (regardless of color) he should avoid difficult situations. Chroma keying with a dslr is certainly one of those.

Hopefully Brandon can give us an update soon so we can see how he is coming along with his project.

John--well, all right, fine. You're right! I did cheat, didn't I?

The real reason that I prefer white screen to green is that, unless I work really hard, I can't get a PERFECT key. If I mess up a green screen or have too many wrinkles, it's a lot harder for me to get something I'm happy with than using white and just cheating the contrast a little. And a green fringe/haze is really unforgiving against a CG white backdrop. That's all.

Thanks for your compliment!

I have a DSLR and a green screen and agree that if you want white, shoot white.

White is one of the most difficult background replacements with a green screen. A busy background can hide imperfections. A white background hides nothing. If there's just a touch of green fringe around the hair, it will stand out starkly. And with a small space and DSLR, you are bound to get green fringe - the nearby green screen will throw a color cast on the edges of your talent and the DSLR's line skipping, scaling, and 4:2:0 all conspire to mess up your key.

Our screen is in a 36x36 barn so I can separate the talent nicely. And when we shoot with the screen, we use Magic Lantern RAW in crop mode which gives us the data off the sensor with no line skipping and no 4:2:0 issues. And yes, with this approach, an evenly lit background, and some clean up in post, we can do credible keys over white. I'd still rather use a real white background though, if that's the final output. Flattening white in post isn't really harder than flattening green.

This is a good test case. Improve your lighting and exposure to do white well. The equipment and experience will serve you well in the future over any background.

Ah, the infinite white void look. So simple that it must be simple to set up and shoot, right? NOT.
Well, not if full body.

Pretty much everything matters. A camera that can shoot clean in low light can help on the amount of lighting needed, but if you don't have a C300, F5, Red Dragon or Alexa, then to get perfect results (no post production hassles) you need enough gear and space.

#1) The screen. I use 140" wide x 50' white Seemless paper. (Most often I wish it were 280" wide.)
I put that roll up on a couple of big rolling stands that have big pipe couplers on each to grab and hold a 14' piece of black iron pipe that is the axle for the 12' roll of paper.
The 140" paper can be hard to find and needs to be delivered by truck freight = mo money.
The narrower 107"W is almost worthless for anything other than a direct frontal shot of one skinny actor who doesn't move. Using clear packing tape and a flat - super clean floor of enough size, I have put two pieces together - but this is a pain. The paper gets dirty easy and tears even easier. Not easy to hang either - i.e. tears.

#2) You will need enough soft light to evenly light the screen bright enough for whatever camera you are using (this is where a good camera with fast lens comes into play). We use a couple of Lowel Rifa 88s with 1000W in each. Hard lights, unless far enough away to flood the paper, hot spot. For side lights,
we use a couple of 2K Desisti fresnels on rolling stands and hit both the screen and the talent with them - this means they need to be far enough away to work. Two more Rifa 88s for the talent and sometimes a back-light (1K fresnel) behind and just above the screen.

IMO, this is barely enough to get it to work - and we shoot on Sony EX3s.
If they need more stage than the 140" paper can provide, we shoot green screen and record the hdsdi out of the EX3 in ProRes HQ or uncompressed.

As always, you mileage may vary.

Should have gotten a patent on shooting against a white background. Amazon did:

You Can Close The Studio, Amazon Patents Photographing On Seamless White - DIY Photography (http://www.diyphotography.net/can-close-studio-amazon-patents-photographing-seamless-white/)