So I decided to turn things around and while doing so make some extra cash, I now have 3 Blu-ray's included standard in my package and have the dvd as a paying option, I find it important enough to continue to give my clients a choice but maybe it's better to give them the best quality from the start and only if they want them, provide them with extra dvd's..

This site needs a "like" button for posts like this. Hopefully you'll successfully turn this negative into a positive, one way or the other. Either you make more money, or people will suddenly discover they own a blu-ray player.

I might provide one of each: DVD, blu-ray, and USB

I can imagine Wedding Videographers arguing when DVD first came out about how clients wouldn't notice the difference in quality, everyone has a Video Cassette Player, only nerds have invested in DVD players. Video cassettes is still the best format, will continue to be etc etc. How many Wedding Videos sit on shelves or in drawers unwatched because the couple have long since ditched their Video Cassette player.
I've been asked to convert a few, some I'm generous and say I'll do just for the cost of a disk and I still never hear back. It gets forgotten. Until then the couple can't on the spur of the moment just put on their Wedding Video. I guess there's a risk in any format, but I still think a digital copy is the best future proof option out there at the moment.

My package includes 4 DVDs & 2 Blu-rays. I don't nickel and dime my clients, especially when my cost per disc is so cheap.

I use tmpgenc autoringworks to make my dvd and blu-rays and maybe I overlooked but untill now I have to build each separately which then takes twice the time, if I only could build a menu and then have a choice to either export blu-ray or dvd then it would only be a matter of pressing a button and wait.

About "nickel and dime" your clients, I have started watching a course from Ray Roman, you should see his option list. at 9,5k starting price I'd expect all to be included but that's just the bare minimum, he charges 800 dollar extra if you want blu-ray. :)

I guess there's a risk in any format, but I still think a digital copy is the best future proof option out there at the moment.

I thought dvd was digital! So instead do we store digitally in 1920x1080, if we are future proofing what about 4k, 8k, 16k? It's all here today gone tomorrow, but why are we worrying about what happens in 10 or 20 years time? I have masters of weddings going back to the early 1980s and can still copy them to whatever format I want if needed because I keep an old VHS player.

So many on the forum seem obsessed with archiving and future proofing, but all we are doing is supplying a product to a client to view their wedding. If they want to view their wedding in 20 years time, then it is up to them to do what ever is neccessary in the future, not us. There is no way of predicting what future requirements may be, and people are just as unlikely to have Bluray players in 10 years time as DVD players. It has never been mainstream in the way that VHS and DVD have been, and is unlikely to grow in popularity with the public turning to downloading and streaming.

Roger

Apologies for not being too precise in my language. I use the term digital copies to refer to a copy that is purely for a computer and not a physical copy, and aside that I'm already working and delivery with 4K, I think it's at least important, given we are being paid, to store the best possible quality that was used in recording the Wedding. Failing that, as in some of my early Weddings, at the very least edited in. I have computer files of all my Wedding videos at the highest copy they were edited in. I'm sure my clients can't expect me to film in a format that has yet to be developed, but if they ask for HD or in 1 case 4K, even if they ask for a DVD copy, some because they're ignorant of it's limitation, I see no excuse to limit my digital files to such an inferior format when a better quality version exists.

That said I agree with your views on Bluray and in my earlier post suggested that PC based copies although still not 100% future proof, are at the very least the best option if anyone considers that important to their clients; I'm sure some do not. As many here deride certain deliveries like Shortform or Highlights Videos as they feel it's not what the Bride will want to see in the future, I can only assume that such people who do feel that way will also acknowledge the importance that their videos be viewable say in 10 or 20 years time, otherwise why all the fuss over style of work, if pleasing the couple now is our only consideration.

So many on the forum seem obsessed with archiving and future proofing, but all we are doing is supplying a product to a client to view their wedding. If they want to view their wedding in 20 years time, then it is up to them to do what ever is neccessary in the future, not us. There is no way of predicting what future requirements may be, and people are just as unlikely to have Bluray players in 10 years time as DVD players. It has never been mainstream in the way that VHS and DVD have been, and is unlikely to grow in popularity with the public turning to downloading and streaming.

Roger

You're absolutely right, of course, but my conscience plays havoc with me when I think about people not being able to play their DVD on their 25th wedding anniversary, either because they no longer have a device capable of playing DVDs or perhaps the discs don't work! Having said that, VHS degradation was never it's strong point either so stuff I did way back when won't exactly be 'like new' today.

To look at it another way, when today's brides reach their 25th anniversary my three score years and ten will be up and will I actually be bothered?

At least digital storage has the potential to be transferred around as technology migrates, OTOH so many people are so bad at doing this that I think many will lose their digital copes sooner rather than later.

Maybe there's a business for archival / retrieving people's wedding videos in 25 years time... though of course no one will want to pay for that in advance.

About "nickel and dime" your clients, I have started watching a course from Ray Roman, you should see his option list. at 9,5k starting price I'd expect all to be included but that's just the bare minimum, he charges 800 dollar extra if you want blu-ray

Well, I love Ray's work, but somehow we all managed to get run a business just fine before he arrived on the scene. For me, giving clients a decent package at a fair price has always worked well for me.

About "nickel and dime" your clients, I have started watching a course from Ray Roman, you should see his option list. at 9,5k starting price I'd expect all to be included but that's just the bare minimum, he charges 800 dollar extra if you want blu-ray. :)

Something else I figured out long ago. The US is a totally different market to Europe. While the likes of Ray Roman can pick up clients one week in NY than the next in LA, they are going at a market of 250M people.

How many people in Europe can pick up a client in Paris one month, Madrid the next, the London, Berlin, Rome and so on.

Ray can find the rich jet set scattered across an entire continent. We're rarely as lucky.

Apologies for not being too precise in my language. I use the term digital copies to refer to a copy that is purely for a computer and not a physical copy, and aside that I'm already working and delivery with 4K, I think it's at least important, given we are being paid, to store the best possible quality that was used in recording the Wedding. Failing that, as in some of my early Weddings, at the very least edited in. I have computer files of all my Wedding videos at the highest copy they were edited in. I'm sure my clients can't expect me to film in a format that has yet to be developed, but if they ask for HD or in 1 case 4K, even if they ask for a DVD copy, some because they're ignorant of it's limitation, I see no excuse to limit my digital files to such an inferior format when a better quality version exists.
That said I agree with your views on Bluray and in my earlier post suggested that PC based copies although still not 100% future proof, are at the very least the best option if anyone considers that important to their clients; I'm sure some do not. As many here deride certain deliveries like Shortform or Highlights Videos as they feel it's not what the Bride will want to see in the future, I can only assume that such people who do feel that way will also acknowledge the importance that their videos be viewable say in 10 or 20 years time, otherwise why all the fuss over style of work, if pleasing the couple now is our only consideration.

No need for apologies Steve as I was being ironic rather than pedantic, so perhaps apologies from me:-) My point was that dvd is of course digital, but digital storage can be in many different types, so storing an HD or 4k file now, doesn't mean that it will be easily readable in 20 years time.

Unless we continuously upgrade all our stored masters to new formats as they come along, there is no guarantee that they will be easily readable in 20 or even 10 years. There is also no way of knowing how long current storage such as hard drives, usb drives etc, will actually save the digital information without deterioration or curruption. I do agree with storing in a resolution that we shoot in, but that is only current for a short time. I also agree that clients may well want to view their wedding video on their 25th wedding anniversary, but that is something that they need to take care of. I may want to drive my brand new car in 25 years time if I'm not dead, but It is up to me to keep it going not the manufacturer. What about all those people with collections of vinyl records, do they expect the manufacturers to convert them to a modern format? Of course not, they either have to maintain a record turntable, or repurchase them from the copyright holder as a new digitally reprocessed disc.

Perhaps the beauty of a historical record of your wedding on VHS, DVD or USB in the future, will be to view it as it was originally intended as part of the history.

Roger

I have tried something new, I was revising my prices and untill now I always included 3 dvd's and had blu-ray as a paying option. but for this year I only had one client asking for a blu-ray and I think last year no-one asked. This means I have a bunch of unused blu-ray discs sitting in my office and like it looks I can use them as coaster soon.

So I decided to turn things around and while doing so make some extra cash, I now have 3 Blu-ray's included standard in my package and have the dvd as a paying option, I find it important enough to continue to give my clients a choice but maybe it's better to give them the best quality from the start and only if they want them, provide them with extra dvd's.

I expect almost every client to ask for a dvd so that's some small extra income that I otherwise didn't have, since no-one took the blu-ray option.

See how that goes.

That's what I'm talking about. On my new package list there is now no DVD option, but despite my slightly facetious highway remark earlier, they can have DVDs if they ask for it. They rarely do. We should at least offer them our best looking product even if they don't care one way or another. It's a bit like the recording industry offering mp3s. Many people, to the disgust of many musos and sound engineers, are content with mp3s etc, but they still release CDs for those that want a better quality option.

Perhaps the beauty of a historical record of your wedding on VHS, DVD or USB in the future, will be to view it as it was originally intended as part of the history.

Roger

My first Wedding was shot in 2005 and delivered on DVD of which I have a copy. Being for a colleague, I didn't store a digital copy and last year tried to grab the video from the DVD. The computer refused to recognise the DVD, nor could I play it in 2 DVD players I had. It played well in 2010 as I showed it to a couple when I started my Business, but since then something happened to degrade it. Ironically now the only surviving material I have are a couple of AVI's on my computer of the animation I used for the Main and Chapter Menus. It's a shame I didn't keep an AVI or other video format of the video itself. If the DVD I supplied to the couple is similarly suffering the same problem then all my work was for nothing that day. Now I used good quality DVD's, which I was assured would last a lifetime. As if.

Cars and records are in the most cases replaceable and if they're not, then yes it's up to the individual. However they're sold more for immediate use and enjoyment whereas one of the selling points of a Wedding Video, or at least for me, is not just the pleasure of watching it soon after the Wedding, but also the pleasure of watching it in the future with Children and Grandchildren. If I'm making that a point of selling, then I should also be considering how easily viewed they'll be in the future. And whilst I don't doubt a hard copy is also handy if your hard drive fails, I'd more advised digital copies for long term storage. Like me I'm sure couples have a multitude of photos stretching back many years as digital files on a computer, precious memories I'd hope they'd preserve when upgrading to a new computer. And for all the changes, I can still view photos I took with my first digital camera 15 years ago. I didn't store them on DVD. There maybe nostalgic charm in playing back your video on the format it was created for, but that charm will vanish if the video doesn't play. Something I can relate to when I tried to transfer an old TV series never released on disk and which I had a copy only in video. Tape breaking loose and tangling itself in knots round the inner workings of the player was alas one nostalgic trip too many.

I expect that people asking for dvd should slowly decrease over time, since blu-ray is the only discformat available right now for HD playback and soon 4K playback it's not like it will go away soon.

This might help

Great idea Bruce; I'll have to do a Wedding version to show all my clients next year. It'll be interesting to see the response when I then get the Preference Form for delivery format.

Steve- thats's interesting your comment regarding not being able to read a dvd, but still accessing photos from 15 years ago as I had exactly the opposite experience. I found an old dvd of some teaching projects I did in 2000 and the dvd played with no problems at all and I copied it to hard drive for some new copies. I also tried to access some irreplaceable pics on a hard drive from 10 years ago, only to find that most of the files were unreadable. I wished I'd stored them on dvd!

I suppose we are all heavily influenced by our own experiences, which can often be the opposite of what others find.

Roger

Problems with dvd's not playing after a number of years is usually because they get scratches from rough handling. If you take care of them they will play without a issue, the data on the dvd doesn't "degrade" because of age causing playback problems but because how we store or handle them.

I've got CDR's with music and photos that I backed up when I was 16 in high school. A few of them don't play correctly and the top/face side has gone a shade yellow instead of remaining white. Underneath it looks fine, no scratches what so ever. But they don't read well on my PC with some images and mp3's refusing to load. It definitely isn't a compatibility issue.

I think certain discs do degrade over time. You have to make sure you're using quality media.

I always enclose a 'Care of your discs' leaflet when I post out final DVDs or Blu-Ray discs very similar to this one:

http://www.verbatim.com.au/brochures/DVD-CD_Handling.pdf

Pete

Materials in the discs can degrade over time, so it's not always an issue of physical damage. There is a media called M-Disc that can be used to produce a more archival DVD. What is M-Disc?? » The M-DISC? (http://www.mdisc.com/what-is-mdisc/)

In my old job I was a strong advocate in switching over from Video Cassette to DVD back in 2004 and consequently produced in the region of 500 unique DVD's a month. Even with the same DVD Burner, same make of DVD disks, there would be the occasional batch that just caused us problems. Some disks played better than others on certain players and some DVD's played in the PC but not the DVD player. Even with shop purchased DVD's there were random issues. Standing with a lecturer in front of a class of 150 students trying to get a Professionally Produced DVD to play that just won't load is no fun. It didn't happen often, but it did happen enough. And yet you'd go back with a different DVD and it was fine.

Roger, I had no doubt you would find an experience that was opposite to my own. It just reinforces the common opinion that long term storage is best done using multiple copies on different formats, for our own personal photos and video as well as those produced for others. I'd be heart broken if I lost my collection of photos and videos taken in the last 14 years and pissed that I didn't make the effort to back up. However with almost 8tb's of material, I don't think I'll be copying it all to DVD.

I think the normal cheap "non archive" DVD's definitely degrade. I have some DVD's where I backed up old software about 10 years ago and I noticed that the quite dark purple dye had faded quite significantly! All but one disk in the tub of 50 played perfectly so that might be the reason? I'm not sure.

With normal blank BD media is it any different?? Doesn't it also have a dye layer on the writable side?? If so using BluRay would still have the loss of data after a long time or am I wrong?

You can buy (at an increased cost) archival media here which is supposed to last longer

I guess the only other option is to throw in a free (but costed in) USB 500GB portable drive as a "backup" for the drive. In the old days I used to give my brides the MiniDV tapes as a "backup" but giving them a bunch of SDHC camera cards would be a lot more pricey unless you costed it into the package

flimsy bits of plastic will not make it in the long haul don't kid yourself
Besides who cares in the long haul anyway Realistically a new generation of folks are born then another then another forever so the bits of stuff we produce will be just so much smoke in the wind

Whatever about the superiority of Bluray over DVD. The fact is, sooner than you might like it - nobody will be interested in a disc of any kind which can be lost/burnt/scratched and not easily 'ripped' my non-techy clients.

In less than a decade there will be two options for video/movies - online streaming or digital data downloads.

If discs for movies survive at all it will be in the hands of retro/trendy/collector types akin to how vinyls are still technically surviving rather than going fully extinct.

I can only guarantee the longevity of my DVD media according to the specifications set down but the manufacturer. I use Verbatim DataLife DVD-R 'watershield' type printable. According to Verbatim they have a superior archival life (superior to what I am not sure)

According to a Wikipedia article on optical media preservation, archival quality means that such dics, if handled and stored correctly, can last 100 years compared to a typical 5-10 years for non archival.

Having said that I've noticed that Verbatim produce a 'Gold Archive Quality' disc that they guarantee will last 100 years (if handled and stored correctly) so that's left me confused - what is the longevity of their 'superior archival' Datalife discs?

From next season I'll also be supplying my weddings on USB and as far as I'm concerned it's up to the client to look after the media and make backups if they so wish - I certainly am not going to assure them the DVD will be watchable for their great-grand-kids!

As inexpensive as Blu-Ray players are these days, why not bundle one in with the package? And maybe add an option for additional players for the bride and grooms's parents, if they're without. You can pitch the convenience of the family all owning the same make and model... one 12-year-old niece or nephew could set up all of 'em.

The problem lies with warranty if the players malfunction, where I live it's a 2 year warranty so if you have 30 weddings a year it means 30 players end up at your client every year who might come back (within a 2 year period after the purchase) with a issue, maybe not hardware but user related, Then I would have to send them back to the store where I got them from and I get stuck between the service department and the client, maybe they will charge if they can't find anything wrong and then the discussion start.
Even if they don't break down you would be surprised how many don't know how to install or operate such a player and they will be calling me with any problems they have with it, no thanks, a disc and a usb stick is as far as I would go and the rest they can figure out themselves :)

I agree I would not want to get tangled up with possible problems with Bluray hardware.

There seems to be an assumption that all TVs will have a spare HDMI socket. They may have a pre-HDMI TV or one which until relatively recently came with just two HDMI sockets rather than four or more. The existing sockets are probably already occupied by a satellite or cable box and a games console and possibly their existing DVd player which they may prefer to keep hooked up if they are familiar with using it or if it has other functions such as better Freeview reception than their TV or a hard drive to record on etc. Do you want to get involved in HDMI switching units? Thought not.

They may prefer Component cables rather than HDMI cables - I've seen very sophisticated home cinema systems not using HDMI at all, as in this City flat of a couple of London investment bankers:

http://www.ashtonlamont.co.uk/620-bpps/gal01-bpps/s/030-4510-04_bpps.jpg

..... and yes I was told to take my shoes off before walking on their pure white floors :- )

If they are already set up for home cinema you've got to think about routing the players audio through the amp, and so on. They may have set it up themselves initially and then forgotten what they did, or they may have had a specialist install who knows how long ago.

Sure, most of the time it will be a simple case of hook the Bluray player to the TVs spare HDMI, power them up, make sure the player is visible and selectable in the TVs menus (don't assume auto as the TV may have been set up to ignore all but the sockets that were in use at the time it was acquired). But there will be a significant tail of queries.

I can't see Bluray surviving anyway. For some time now if you buy a Bluray film you often get a DVD version thrown in plus a facility to download a high res file. If that doesn't announce that the Bluray vendors have accepted its inevitable death I don't know what does.

I have three bluray players. Seemed like a good idea at the time but now I only ever use them to double check clients discs before dispatch. I always have more than I can ever catch up with on my satellite disc, I never have enough time to dabble in the BBC's iplayer or sucklike, and my library of Bluray greats gathers dust.

Pete

I stand by what I previously said, that it is up to us to supply clients with a product consistent with what they have seen in examples. If they are happy with it when they book, then they will get that same quality, but I am not prepared to give any guarantees as to how that product will perform as technology moves on in the future.

We need to supply on a format that clients are comfortable with now and happy to view on their current tv. Whether that is SD, HD, or 4k seems to be up to the client, just as we buy cameras that are consistent with how we want to film, the only difference being that we have a pretty good idea of what we may be asked for over the next 5 years.

Roger

Roger I'm not on some damn fool crusade to bring HD to DVD happy Brides nor do I expect to handheld them in the future regarding storing of their Wedding Video. However some do not realise that DVD isn't HD, others may not realise the benefit and quality and when it comes to long term storage and playback, most are ignorant on the risks until too late.

Now I'm neither a shop nor car salesman, I'm someone whose been approached and booked to film their Wedding and supply in a format they can watch in the future. In doing it doesn't hurt to explain the advantages of the different formats and provide an opinion on long term playback and storage. Each January, I provide all my clients for the year, a brief guide on my service and outline any changes in Post Production and delivery. This year I decided to provide couples with 3 options for the first copy, DVD, Bluray and USB, but gave no details on the merits of each. Next year I shall add this. After all they are approaching me for a professional service and my professional opinion will I hope be appreciated and seen as a willingness to give them the best version of their Wedding Video as possible. Sadly this is not DVD. However at the end of the day, it is always their decision. I'll advise what I think is best, but I won't force them to one delivery format despite my own opinion.

Steve- I really can't see any difference between what you tell your clients and what I do, with the probable exception that I also have a 3d option. I shoot and edit in HD and give the finished product in whatever format they require. I don't get asked for Bluray, but do sometimes get asked for HD, in which case I supply them with a usb. I also very occasionally get asked to put their wedding on iPad for them. However, though I let clients know that they can have an HD version, the preference from my clients is nearly always dvd.

Having said that, I have filmed and photographed one wedding in 3d this year and have another in February, both of which were requested and will be delivered in HD 3d and 2d, with 2d dvds aswell.

The only difference I see to you, is regarding what will be playable in a few years and whether I should worry about it, which I don't.

Roger

I stand by what I previously said, that it is up to us to supply clients with a product consistent with what they have seen in examples. If they are happy with it when they book, then they will get that same quality, but I am not prepared to give any guarantees as to how that product will perform as technology moves on in the future.
Roger

Seems fair really, though some people may want to be made aware of possible issues while others will be blind to anything but price.

Roger I'm not on some damn fool crusade to bring HD to DVD [ ...... ] However some do not realise that DVD isn't HD [.....] most are ignorant on the risks until too late.


Ain't that the truth... I've had some know it all arm chair internet browser type grooms (2 to be precise) tell me I don't know what I'm talking about and of course DVD is HD otherwise it would look really bad! When I ask them why they thought Blu-ray was introduced they kind of stumble around a little and try to change the subject.

I just had an inquiry specifically asking for DVD only, not highlights, no HD, no USB, they're just interested in getting DVD. Should I tell them to go away and come back when they finally appreciate how much better high-def footage looks or wait until they've seen 4K? Errr..... no, I think that DVD only is a doable situation, I just hate watching DVDs now after seeing the HD source and always feel I'm short changing them. I guess I need to get over it and be done.

Steve- I really can't see any difference between what you tell your clients and what I do

Well as a third of my couples requested an HD delivered format this year, a mix between Bluray and USB, favouring the Bluray, there's obviously some difference in our approach. I'm down to 2 blank bluray cases from 25 ordered this year, though some of those were extra copies admittedly. I'm hoping for better results next year. :)


I just had an inquiry specifically asking for DVD only, not highlights, no HD, no USB, they're just interested in getting DVD. Should I tell them to go away and come back when they finally appreciate how much better high-def footage looks or wait until they've seen 4K? Errr..... no, I think that DVD only is a doable situation, I just hate watching DVDs now after seeing the HD source and always feel I'm short changing them. I guess I need to get over it and be done.

There's nothing wrong in hating seeing good footage ruined. After all we invest in HD cameras, work to capture a good quality video, then proceed to interlace it, reduce it's size and squeeze it into a 4:3 pixel ratio to then be stretched back to 16:9 across a widescreen tele. Can you imagine Photographers torturing their photos in such a way.
That said, I'd take the money for a DVD only job. Business comes before art.

Prior to 2010 everything I shot was on tape and made into dvds and I have several thousand which I'm now in the process of copying from the dvd to hardrive with the view to making these videos re-available to those in the videos.
To my delight all of the discs from back in 2005 which I'm doing (the oldest) at the moment (several hundred ) are just fine with no degradation whatsoever So thats about 10 years and a few of the cheaper ones look a little pale but overall they are in excellent shape

They were stored on 100pk spindles in cardboard boxes

On another note. dvds burnt to disc with edius 7 from Sony xvac-s 4k shot on a ax100 with decent light arn't too bad .Not quite as good as old hdv but approaching

On another note. dvds burnt to disc with edius 7 from Sony xvac-s 4k shot on a ax100 with decent light arn't too bad .Not quite as good as old hdv but approaching

Could you explain what you mean by this?

The 720x480 16:9 DVDs produced from 4K source footage off a fdr-ax100 and shot in good light are the best I've seen but still crappy when played full screen on a big tv which of course is the problem. They all have big screens

One reason may be the 4K from the AX100 is 30P but all your tape video was 60i so twice as smooth motion. Makes a big difference with any motion at all. Also if the project was over about 75 mins Edius is only 1 pass encode for DVD and will also not be as good as TMPGenc 2 pass encode and scaling. I export HQ from the Edius timeline and encode and scale in TMPGenc , 2 pass VBR for much better results.

Ron Evans

Ron, do you use authoringworks for the encode and scaling or videomastering works?

The 720x480 16:9 DVDs produced from 4K source footage off a fdr-ax100 and shot in good light are the best I've seen but still crappy when played full screen on a big tv which of course is the problem. They all have big screens

So you were comparing 4K downscaled to SD to the native 1440x1080 from HDV, rather than the HDV downscaled to SD? I'm confused.

SD just looks bad from anything...

Ron, do you use authoringworks for the encode and scaling or videomastering works?

I use TMPGenc T4 most of the time rather than T5 as I think it does better job. Now with Edius 7.4 export a HQX fine file to go to TMPGEnc. I use Sony DVD Architect for authoring for DVD and Bluray ( just change the project parameters and files so only author once). Bluray file comes straight from Edius with Quicksync encode though TMPGenc batch could do both.


Ron

The 720x480 16:9 DVDs produced from 4K source footage off a fdr-ax100 and shot in good light are the best I've seen but still crappy when played full screen on a big tv which of course is the problem. They all have big screens

I find HDV looks crappy at any resolution, though being interlaced probably makes for a better DVD than anything shot at HD progressive. Yet another good reason to abandon DVD in my opinion. Though Bluray still uses interlace. Personally if I shoot in one format, I prefer to deliver in that format. Anything else is a downgrade.

I've previously provided 3 DVDs to all my brides but this year I'm offering a customized USB drive and no DVDs. If they would like DVDs then they are welcome to pay for the authoring and production, but I'm just tired of dealing with the conversions, authoring, printing, and mailing. I'll probably need to be very clear about this before the wedding so that they're not surprised if they assume a DVD comes for free.