Hi Guys

My wireless systems have come to the end of their lives as our legal frequencies have been changed! I'm already over the "changeover" date and getting rather crappy audio as new devices start using the old bands.

I like the idea of using 2.4GHz Bluetooth units as they are easy to get and much cheaper than the UHF traditional wireless systems ... they quote a range of 60m and I'm never further away from the couple than 5m -6m so range shouldn't be an issue at all!!

This is one local set (obviously made in China) Boya WM5 PRO Wireless Lavalier Battery Microphone System FOR Video Camera | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/301311769024?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)

Has anyone used 2.4Ghz for bridal vows ...what are the downsides of the systems???

Chris

It's not just the frequency that makes the difference, it's the system using it.

We use 2.4Ghz wirelss systems (not bluetooth!) and some work better than others. For example, the Sennheiser G3 has worked flawlessly for us, but the older G2 still has drop outs.

If you buy cheap systems then you should be prepared to encounter times when they are not as reliable than if you spend money on a decent Sennheiser / Sony system, which to be fair cost quite a bit more than the link you provided.

I've really been looking the Rodelink system that is coming out in a month or so:

Rode RodeLink Wireless Filmmaker Kit RODLNK-FM B&H Photo Video


I need another wireless system and this seems like a good fit. However, I've had amazing luck with my Sennheiser G3 and may end up just getting another one of them. I think my main concern is that I need to feel comfortable that the audio is not going to drop out on me unexpectedly and I know how to work with the G3 system to avoid that from happening.

The Rode system may be just as good or better, but I just don't like taking chances that I don't have to in order to save a couple hundred dollars. So I'll keep thinking it over, but I feel like there's something to be said for a system that has been shown to work very well in many environments.

So I would say that if you've got the money for the G3 system you may want to go for that because so many people use it and have had great luck with it.

Thanks Guys

I just used that link as an example! I couldn't find anything from Senny at all!! Sure Rode make one and so do Audio Technica but that's all B&H seem to have.

Sorry the title should also have read 2.4GHz ...I thought the digital 2.4GHz band was exclusively BT and not wireless as all devices use the same frequency.

Rode is local here anyway so maybe that system will work well ?? Sony also make one but it's a tad bulky compared to other systems .

Chris

Nikon has just come out with one too. Transmitter the size of a thumb drive clips to the shirt. Receiver, same size as transmitter, plugs into audio jack of DSLR.

Of course, they probably don't make it themselves.

I've really been looking the Rodelink system that is coming out in a month or so:

Rode RodeLink Wireless Filmmaker Kit RODLNK-FM B&H Photo Video (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1115091-REG/rode_rodlnk_fm_rodelink_wireless_filmmaker_kit.html)



Have you seen the size of the transmitter on the rode unit! Its massive!

I am using Line 6 exclusively now, works really well providing you use RF1 mode. We use the XD-V35 kit with a different mic. They are meant to be mains powered, however I run a pair of them off 6x AA Eneloop batteries, which works fine, the receivers are mounted on top of my cameras.

I can't really tell from the photo how big the Rode is - I definitely don't want something huge to put on the groom or the officiant though

Hi Michael

The Rode for me is way too big to put in a groom's breast pocket as far as I can see. The Sony unit is also way too big ...you would have to clip those units on a belt behind them ... I'm surprised that Rode made the unit so big!! The Audio Technica system 10 has quite a nice sized belt pack and it's slim enough to fit into a pocket plus you can use up to 8 transmitters with one receiver so if you have a multi mic situation it's quite cost effective. I guess you cannot control each transmitter level but it should be OK.

I figured that a review by a pro sound engineer would be the best to watch. He does put it thru it's paces and for me it has more than adequate range ... I'm never as far away as he goes in the review so this with an extra transmitter and lav is also cheaper (and less bulky on the camera) than 2 UHF receivers.

System 10 camera mount wireless review and field tested by Fred Ginsburg CAS - YouTube

Chris

I presume this is the Nikon unit Roger is looking at. I like the price. Maybe the PHD can do a test on these.

Nikon ME-W1 Wireless Microphone Set 27159 B&H Photo Video (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=1127273&gclid=CjwKEAjwrbSoBRDok47Sv6Ci80wSJABFUszTc7Xw8EIBZEmf0707NMVs_UpIv39wEDAoLcd87xq6WxoCHIDw_wcB&Q=&is=REG&A=details)

The Audio Technica system 10 has quite a nice sized belt pack and it's slim enough to fit into a pocket plus you can use up to 8 transmitters with one receiver so if you have a multi mic situation it's quite cost effective.

The reach and lack of interference on that AT10 is very impressive when you look at that in- and outdoor test they did. I don't think you can go wrong with this unit.

I really don't like that video - and the range looks more impressive because of the wide angle lens making the distance look huge, when it isn't - however, the audio sounds good, and even with the range evident squashed a bit, range is rarely the problem with radio systems, it's how they respond to sudden lack of signal. My own digital experience is extremely good. I have no issues with it at all, apart from it being annoying to other wifi users.

What is the point of subjective tests like this? Loads of 'around', 'approx' and other subjective comments. The drop outs were at extreme distance, where analogue would have been fuzzing away. What is needed are objective comments. Properly set up tests and real world practical tests with lots of absorbing objects like people in between the tx and rx - not almost clear line of sight.

If I had to work the camera at extreme range, then I'd not be using a radio system anyway - inherently unreliable and unrepeatable. You do a test, the link is solid, then when you shoot it, it drops out - normal radio stuff and it doesn't really matter if it is analogue or digital. Signal strength at the receiver usually is perfectly good, then the talent takes a step into one of those unpredictable nulls and it dies. Doing the test with this AT system and a parallel analogue system would be a good test - this one, with a corridor that looks half a mile long, but is much shorter is just a bit pointless. It's a fine guide, but that's about it.

I think it's pretty good and I'm not looking for anything that can do 300' ... 20' is enough for me!!

Now I have no idea if the UK has banned the 700-800mhz band for wireless but we have and so have the USA so our systems are living on borrowed time!! If the 700mhz band is usable in the UK then there is no reason to change. With us Aussies we have no option ..I can get a 2.4GHz unit or get a 500mhz unit ..the new Sony packs are nearly $300 more than the 2.4GB units and I would have to get TWO units where with the AT system I need only two transmitters and one receiver!

What frequencies is your dual receiver using Noa??? Is that still legal in Belgium??

Chris

In the UK, ch 69 has been withdrawn a while now, but ch70 - with space for 4 (or 5 if they are Sennheisers) is available. The old users who had ch69 licenses were well compensated by the Government, and we bought equipment in the new ch38 end of the band. The unlicensed people are probably blissfully unaware that ch69 now has nasty digital comms in it (in the busier urban areas of the country) but one day, their systems will be very nasty - ch70 is too small for the built up areas now. ch70 is a harmonised allocation in Europe, so we all have uncoordinated, free to use channels there - but as the popular kit covered 69 too, most people innocently spread into 69. For how long, we don't know. Once the role out of the digital phone networks appear in this allocation, many people will be unhappy, looking for free channels and finding them few and far between.

My azden 500 udr is from the US and it uses frequencies that are not legal here but for those 3 weddings every year that I need it to record interviews for a timeperiod of 1 hour I don't care if it is, eventhough it's allready several years old it has been a very reliable piece of equipment where I have not experienced any signal loss with so far, it's only quite bulky.

I did try the audio technica system 10 (both the handheld and the lavalier) , then I went back to the sony uwp-D (the handheld is not a good microphone by the way), and then I went back (for good) to the good old sennheiser G3 (handheld and lavalier but with the giant squid instead of the sennheiser mic). the handheld (which is the e835 is probably the best mic you can get for our work (in my opinion) and the giant squid lavalier will surprise in terms of presence and pickup. the sennheiser lavalier was just ok.

so the sennheiser (band A) is BY FAR the best in terms of everything while the 2.4GHz was decent but no good for anything more than 5-6feet away. too many drop-outs, and for no reason (apparent). Plus if you shoot many events indoor you're gonna fight with the DJ who uses the same 2.4ghz for many things, including the lights.

The really big issue is that government agencies seem to be allocating more and more frequencies to digital radio, mobile/cell and TV using bands that were previously allocated to our wireless mics. My gear runs in the 794 - 805 Mhz band with 64 channels and it's tough to find any clear channels ..granted it's only a digital signal that comes in and gives interference but it does modulate the signal enough to cause issues and these transmitters and a LOT more powerful than what we use. At 10mw we are unlikely to cause any issues with the broadcast bands but they still interfere with us sadly!!

I don't mind buying a new pair of transmitters and receivers BUT how long will they last until those frequencies are reallocated ... we already have been squashed into a tiny band now and more and more Churches and casual users are using wireless so the overcrowding will just get worse. I don't want to outlay $2000 on new audio gear to find out that it's just no usable after 6 months!! Especially at weddings you really don't have a lot of time to set up audio and fiddle trying to find a clear space!! Hmmm maybe the real answer is a voice recorder in the groom's pocket and then output the signal via 2.4G back to you at the camera so you can monitor the signal ... the issue STILL remains that with a recorder there is no way you can lift the level if it's low ...once a voice recorder is running, it's running and you lose all control.
I do like to be able to listen to the vows and if the bride starts whispering, I can lift the level a bit and then drop back a bit if the groom is too loud.

Obviously the link provided in the first post is not a suggestion to buy the eBay $125 system ..it has awful reviews and most have sent it back ....!!!

Maybe we will have to start going back to the old way and run a cable from camera to lav ..at least the audio would be close to perfect then!!

Chris

the best way to select a band for any UHF is to ask to the rental shop in town what they have available to rent (in your town).
That works better than any "review" (many are paid by the distributors by the way) or salesmen trying to sell what they have left.

I don't see any valid alternative to UHF right now. There are the lectros and all the others. The lectros work all the time, while the sennheiser works too, but not as good. All the others will be a waste of time and money.
I run on sennheiser G3 and a cheap polsen (handheld only) but only when I need a second handheld for group live interviews.
the 2.4GHz system doesn't look up to the task in our line of work, and even sennheiser doesn't offer the new D line for cameras. so it's only for DJ and similar (who are well used to the technology and the shortcomings).
Regarding the recorder I have to admit that I do use it, and pretty often too. Mainly as a backup for the interviewer in case she/he forgets to point the (cardioid) handheld to the right mouth. Don't worry about the levels: unfortunately the zoom can't handle auto gain, but even if you stay low the quality will be still "manageable". With a giant squid a zoom H1 gives some serious audio!

a cord is a thing of the past, plus don't underestimate the risks of people falling down and then you'll be responsible and stuff like that. I'd go for a zoom and a conservative preset of the gain. it works.