Hi Guys

My EA-50's are now over 2 years old and I'm in our quiet season so it's time to decide what to do as I usually change cameras after 18 -24 months and this is the best time to do it

I am thinking seriously of downsizing a bit as my old body struggles with an EA-50 with a big lens on it.

Noa sold his EA-50 and went to the Panasonic G6 and GH4 which seems a good idea weight and size wise. I'm also looking at the GH series smaller brother the FZ1000 which is a bride camera like the RX10 with a fixed 16X zoom and the images I have seen blow me away considering it costs a quarter of the EA-50 price ... Shoots all the AVCHD formats including 50/60P and also does 4K ... an extra delight is the 1080 P mode that shoots at 100fps so dropped onto a 25P timeline you get genuine slomo too which suits my stedicam photoshoots nicely. The lens is only F2.8 -F4 over the zoom but low light shot sample show clean images at ISO 6400 ... On the EA-50 I struggle to get a noise free image at 3200ISO!!

The Panny's do have a record limit of 30mins but that is no issue as I start stop on the EA-50's anyway for clip size convenience. The audio preamps seem nice but no XLR inputs ..I have built my own XLR to stereo convertor boxes before so that's not an issue

Any bright suggestions? What direction would you go if you wanted to downside to something lighter and smaller??

Chris

I already work small Chris and I love the speed of movement, setup, breakdown, no lense changes, weight etc. etc. You know which way I am going - FZ1000 and you could buy two for the price of one of your current cameras. You could even do what I often do, which is mount two on the same tripod. That means you can start them at staggered times and not worry about missing a shot with the time limitation.

I've never regretted downsizing and cameras like the FZ1000 and probably the new Sonys are light years ahead of what the big cameras could do only a short time ago.

Roger

Thanks Roger

With our current prices an EA-50 is $3750 and an FZ 1000 is under $1K so almost 4 for the price of one.
I'm so used to resetting the EA-50 on long ceremonies (quite minimal here actually) that a single cam on the tripod would suffice and another handheld.

What do you use for audio in Churches?? I really need two audio channels but that's easy to build!!

Just deciding whether to offer the EA-50 initially as a body only or stick a Nikon lens on it ..probably the latter would have more "added value"

Let me know when your new camera arrives ..your thoughts would be interesting especially considering you have been using the 200 already at weddings

Chris

Replacing my EA50?? Well I dont think that i would be necessary in the next time, because my clients dont need 4k anyway.
So the ea50 is still a great machine to work with.
The new FS7 would be an option... but thats another league.
On the other hand i wouldnt "downgrade" to photcameras for filming anymore. I hate filming with those formfactors...

Hi Michael

I have to agree with you about form factor BUT the EA-50 has become just too heavy for me and the Panny bridge cameras actually have a better IQ and far less weight ... When I was still using small camcorders I had a huge issue with the tiny form factor and my solution was just two pieces of aluminium flat bar and a pipe at each end with a bicycle grip over each pipe .. I might just go the same route??

This was my original rig built when I still was using Panasonic camcorders and it solves the form factor problem

Sorry Chris, but that looks like a solution for at home...
I wouldnt appear at a clients location with such a "construction"
Also I would say that a client expect his cameraman to have a camera that is at least bigger than his own.

That was the main reason to quickly shift from my XA10 to the EA50 as main cam.

Hey Michael

I do weddings and brides couldn't care less what you use ..in fact I would say 90% of wedding guys are shooting on DSLR now Look on the wedding forum and cameras like the GH4 is the norm as well as a few handicams!!... if you are doing a $20,000 commercial shoot you do need to satisfy the client with a BIG camera but not so with weddings. Just for interest people at weddings are FAR more fascinated with my little SJ4000 action cam mounted on a light stand than the big Sony cameras!! The SJ4000 is the same size as a Gopro and cost me just over $100!! and often outshines the EA-50 in image quality!!

However, yes, I do understand that you need gear that appears adequate in a commercial job and if you pitched up with a couple of GoPros the client would probably question your pricing!!!

With weddings the more invisible we are the better also bear in mind I made that rig as a DIY project and you can see how long ago that was just by the MiniDV tape camcorder!!

Chris

miniDV...Brrrrr dont miss them....

Chris here is the rig I made for my A7s using quality parts from Amazon and cost me about £100 - in use it's comparable to the Zacuto target shooter which retails at over US$500 - mine looks just as pro

Target Shooter for Canon C100-C300-C500 (http://store.zacuto.com/target-shooter-for-canon-c100-c300-c500/)

I use this rig at weddings for about 6 months now (before that a 5D3) and only for bridal prep and dark receptions as there simply is nothing better in low light. For the rest of the wedding day though it's still my trusty EA50 as, even though I'm pretty used to my DSLR rig, I still cannot get the shot quickly enough in a fast paced environment, the camcorder form factor still has the edge.

Also a DSLR rig of this type gets a little heavy as the weight is at the front but Chris you could mount it on your rod and let it take the strain.

You could also forgo the rig completely and have it on a monopod all day, I know a lot of people do this.

I am however looking for that elusive '1 camera that ticks all the boxes' but for now the EA50 will have to do - it's still a quality camera capable of really nice looking footage with decent glass.

Pete

I"m using my rx10 a lot handheld during a weddingday, it's stabilization is sufficient enough for that purpose, I just don't like and use any rigs, that's why I have my rx10 attached to a belt on my side always ready to be used at any time. Of all camera's I have used this is the only only one I'd consider to have the best of both worlds (dslr-video), if only it could shoot more then 30 minutes continuously.

The RX10 (and the just announced RX10mII) are worth a look - put a flash bracket on the left side of the RX, and you're almost at your "rig" (two handed grip configuration, one on flash bracket, one on camera grip), I use that configuration and/or a Sirui Monopod with bigger feet than the Bogen design.

I've tried Panasonic over the years, and as good as the specs are, and the build quality is typically quite good, somehow the image quality has always somehow seemed short of what I get with Sony cams... maybe it's my setup is optimized/tuned, or...? I've been tempted by the LX100 many times (samples I've seen have been QUITE good), but now the RX100mIV is announced, I'll just be patient. The things that have caught my eye in Panny footage are artifacts/blocking, and skintones (many seem blue-grey to me) specifically, I guess I prefer how Sony "flavors" the image... not that Panny is bad by ANY stretch, it's just little quibbles that for me are noticeable.


You may have to test a few cameras to see if you get what you're after - the FZ1000 is certainly tempting for the price, but I get very good results that are close to 4K with the latest RX10 firmware at high bitrates - used "mark I" RX10's are in the same price range, so that would be a good "head to head" test for you.

Depending on the budget, the Sony AX100 is another cam worth a look, used prices are making me think about picking up another. That would give you one "video camera" format, albeit a small one, but it packs a good punch all things considered. I'm happy with an AX100, 2 RX10's and 2 RX100's - all the same basic sensor/processor package, and very compact for multicam. The RX's will eventually get upgraded to the newly announced 4K models, and somehow I suspect we may see an AX100MII with the new sensor - it's almost a no-brainer for Sony to extend the market life of these cameras with "upgraded" guts and firmware. The basic designs are near enough to perfect to make them good for a while!


You're not there to impress with the size of your camera, but rather with the quality of the results, so I'd suggest that some testing in image quality (and ease/comfort of use) is where you should focus. There are some incredibly nice "small cam" options at reasonable prices - keep in mind that a 4K camera can potentially cover for several HD cameras with some pan/crop/zoom - I figure one AX100 replaced 3 HD cameras... While you "may" have people looking for "4K" deliverables, for the most part you'll probably be HD for a while longer at least. Frame a bit wide, crop as needed in post!

Keep in mind any computer upgrades and probably all newer bigger faster memory cards in your budget as well. You'll want to update the whole chain when you make the switch to 4K.

but now the RX100mIV is announced

From what I have read so far you can only shoot 5 minutes in 4k with it, probably a overheating issue which makes it unusable for ceremonies, but nonetheless nice to have in your pocket as backup.

Hi Chris,

Missed your earlier post about the audio as I had a Friday wedding on.

I use a stereo external mic on the FZ200 and on the other Panasonic video cams. I also have a Sony Audio recorder in the Groom's inside pocket with a low mounted stereo lav on his jacket to pick up the vows from B&G I also usually have the Zoom H1 close to the priest to pick up his natural voice. I quite like to get natural church echo on the cams to give a flavour of what it actually sounded like, while mixing with the close Mics for more clarity. I do sometimes detach one of the camera Mics and use an extension lead to get it close to the main sound if the venue is suitable.

I used the FZ200 a lot today, and as with Noa with the RX10, find the onboard stabilisation good enough to do much more hand held work than I have previously with other cameras. I always use a lightweight tripod with a two camera plate so that I can set a narrow and wide angle, and also quickly detach a camera for handheld if I want to snatch quick candid shots in tight spaces. The lightweight tripod can also be used as a monopod with the legs kicked together and even works as a rudimentary steady cam in conjunction with the camera stabilisation.

I would never use a frame with a camera, as it seems to defeat the whole point of going small and being unobtrusive and can never be as steady as a lightweight tripod in my opinion.

Roger

Thanks Guys

Firstly on the "professional look" side of things, I really cannot see any point in spending $26,000 on two Sony FS7's as suggested to make me maybe $40K tops a year ... I can see the point about using $30,000 worth of cameras if they make you back $300,000!! I'm a firm believer in the 10% of turnover capital expenditure limit. If you need to haul bricks you don't use a Mercedes 450SEL .

I have (or was) a Panny users for close to 25 years until they brought out the AC series cameras which were downright awful ( I believe they were made in China and lost the Leica lenses to) I switched to Sony and yes, the EA-50's are great cameras but I still think that Panny cameras give you a better image straight off the card so often very little tweaking is needed. I shot all my weddings a few years back with HMC series cameras with the default pricture profile and they always looked awesome!

The frame above was only an example so one wouldn't need anything as wide but as Dave says a flash bracket style ... I don't think a black anodised aluminium frame that extends just wide enough to allow grips on one or both sides would look tacky nor would it add to the bulk ... I don't think a shoulder mount rig is required as once you add a shoulder pad you are obliged to add an EVF and then it becomes bulky .. a small black frame also gives the facility to provide mounting points for other stuff ...in a Church I still need 2 receivers on the camera that is designated my "A" cam and a little frame would be a useful addition ..plus as already mentioned the FZ1000 will need some light as the reception gets darker so a mini frame that I could clip my light and battery onto when the lights go down would be good .... Of course something like a GH4 with a super fast lens (like Noa uses) or an A7S like Peter has negates the need for a light!

Oh and Roger? On your current FZ200 can you use autofocus to get the couple sharp and then lock it? I usually with AF lenses do a frame adjust, focus and let the camera stay there with continuous AF off so there is no hunting?? I would suspect that one could do this when using the FZ as a static cam by not using continuous focus and just using a half shutter press to get focus and it should stay where it is. Is that correct??

All the help and comments are greatly appreciated!!

Please throw in your 2 cents worth if needed I'm open to suggestions!

Chris

Hi Chris,

As you know, I've fiddled a bit with camera stabilisation and my conclusions are 1. A flash bracket fitted to protrude on the left side of a DSLR does give somewhere to attach other things, but tends to get in the way of reaching for the lens rings and makes it more difficult to hold one handed when doing so 2. A cheap shoulder rig like the Cowboy rig can be set up so you can use the LCD or EVF, it works very well and it is nice to be able to "wear" the camera on your shoulder (no hands!) between shots 3. Modern camera image stabilisation gives as stable an image as any stabiliser I've tried wth the exception of a tripod.

Have a look at The Bracket 1 web site for ideas.

I just bought the Manfrotto MVM500A monopod, it looks promising.

Dave

Thanks Dave

I was actually thinking about the static on tripod camera rather than the handheld one .. sorta like a aluminium frame over the top that one could mount 2 receivers and something like a Rode VM so it's mainly for the audio accessories. That camera I usually only use up front for wedding ceremonies and speeches so it's always on tripod and once focussed the only control I need is the stop/start button. The handheld could carry a shotgun on the hotshoe but I might need somewhere for a light as some venues tend to turn the lights almost off so we have to use an LED light as a fill on the couple.

The suggestions are appreciated ..however I'm trying to keep addons to a minimum!!

Chris

hey chris

i didnt suggest to buy 2 FS7s... But it would be really awesome to have them.
but i think there is a big difference in the things I usually film and most commentators here.
I dont do weddings... I only shot one some years ago with a Sony Z1 HDV.
And one Birthday Party and some Bat Mizwas as 3rd camera man for a colleage.
Usually i am doing videos for small companies like eg. Window-/Door Sellers
and documenting industry events. So mainly i dont have to have to use two cams.
So if i have to i still use my EOS550D which matches pretty well with the EA50.

So i dont see an upgrade in equipment if i change from the EA50 to something like a RX10 or so.
Things like a PMW EX1 would be okay to, but no photo cam with 30min duration limit....

PS: And also i dont earn that much money with filming, so that a FS7 with a nice glass would be reasonable....

Then how about something like this COLD SHOE EXTENSION-Easy Hood (http://www.easyhood.net/index.php?ac=article&at=read&did=20). The Easy Hood ones are less than half the price of the Rycote ones, I have a 4" one from each manufacturer and, apart from the flashy Rycote badge, would swear they come from the same factory.

I too prefer to keep add-ons to a minimum these days, but where they are necessary, try to leave them in situ when packing up. It's one of the reasons I went back to a camcorder, it's ready for almost instant use and I instinctively grab it every time.

Dave

Hi Michael

I have always used two matching cameras at weddings ..for me it just works better and I don't have to decide which is going to be Cam A and which will be Cam B ... I mainly need to go lighter as I get older and the EA-50 with my Sigma 18-35 gets the weight to over 3kg and then at receptions when they are "dancing in the dark" The added weight of another big battery and the LED light make it quite a weight to struggle with for 8 hours. Yeah with a standard lens the FS7 is $13,000 over here ..way out of my budget .. you guys get them cheaper ..Our EA-50's here are still just under $4000 and you can get them from B&H now for almost half that!!

Dave?? That's perfect ..in fact one could actually leave the add ons on the rail and then slide it onto the hotshoe when required .. I like it!!

Hi Chris,

Yes the FZ200 has focus Lock, follow focus etc so I would assume that the FZ1000 would be the same. You can download the full FZ1000 manual from this link
ftp://ftp.panasonic.com/camera/dmcfz1000/dmc-fz1000_en_advanced_om.pdf
I don't like frames, and everything for me is based around a lightweight tripod with a wide plate. That enables me to mount two cameras, and a light, mic or anything else I want, but still able to quickly whip off a camera for handheld. I can mount things on or under the plate as it overhangs the tripod head. I can also clamp a third camera on the tripod centre column if I really need to, and use the tripod as a monopod. The other advantage with the lightweight tripod is that it is easily carried with one hand like a steadycam if you are following moving action.

Roger

If I have to I can load up my tripod with a multitude of bits and it is still light enough to carry with one hand and cameras are available for quick release..

Here there is a Lumix FZ200 with flashgun, plate mounted Panny videocam, clamp mounted Panny videocam, microphone, windjammer, video light and remote control on the panhandle. Sometimes I leave the clamp mounted camera on there just so I can quickly unclamp it and instantly clamp it onto a pew for the processional, somewhere for an alternative angle, or the DJs light stand for the dance. I have a small IR remote so that I can stop/start, zoom it from up to 30 ft away. it also has a stills button for instant 14mp stills.

I don't always have ithe tripod fully loaded, but it gives me complete mobility, small size and very fast setup and breakdown.

Roger

Thanks Roger

That's very neat and inventive too!! Everything is within reach! Are you also using a handheld camera for congregation cutaways and such??

Now I need to find someone who wants an EA-50 !! I have put one up on eBay to see if the fish will nibble ..even if I still keep one just ridding myself of one will cover me for a couple of FX1000's and my mandatory replacement of my wireless system which I have to do anyway!!

Small businesses here have a new incentive from last month where you are allowed to writeoff any capital equipment up to $20,000 for tax purposes so it's a good time to replace gear, however it's also Winter here and freezing cold so June/July isn't exactly peak wedding month!!!

Your comments on the 1000 vs the 200 will be interesting ... the sample video I saw show a squeaky clean image at iso 6400 !!!

Chris

Hi Chris

It depends on the situation whether I use a handheld during the ceremony I sometimes use the clamp camera on the tripod column to get a reaction view from the congregation while I am using the other two for wide angle and closeup. I may already have the clamp camera elsewhere for a totally different angle, and maybe the Lumix being handheld while the other Panny is on a fixed shot or visa versa. If I am also doing stills, I could have a Canon DSLR round my neck.

I had a wedding yesterday and have lifted a couple of timeline grabs straight from the FZ200 video exactly as they were on the video to show you. The video was at 17mbs 25fps and the grabs are only a few kilobytes taken from Edius Neo. It was a big church and the closest I was to the couple was 20-30ft away. the closeup of their hands was from 30ft. The FZ1000 of course will be vastly superior and very much sharper from a 4k still, so I expect some impressive results.

Roger

Wow any bride would be happy with that and that's only the FZ200 ! I love the form factor of my Sony's but I do get frustrated when I see video from cameras a quarter of the price that are so much sharper ..the EA-50 gives a nice image but I have never found it blows me away!! Sometimes I will look at the ceremony footage straight off my SJ4000 action cam which is a $100 camera and wonder why the EA-50 footage isn't as good considering it costs 40 times more!!

Those are pretty good screen grabs Roger!! Based on the fact that the FZ1000 can do 8 mp frame grabs from 4K video should provide some even better stills.

Chris

Chris there's an ongoing thread about the FZ100 - Noa's making some interesting points.

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/wedding-event-videography-techniques/528719-anyone-using-fz1000-weddings-2.html

Also I would say that a client expect his cameraman to have a camera that is at least bigger than his own.

A wedding client doesn't care, my gh4 with a olympus 12mm f2.0 looks tiny in comparison with the photogs 5DIII and his zoomlens, I often see weddingguests that carry bigger Canon/Nikon dslr's with them compared to what I use. The only thing I miss from my nex-ea50 is the formfactor, even if it was not a real shoulder camera and a pain to hold for longer periods handheld, because all the weights extends in front of you, I loved using it with the stocklens. I had much more control with it then with my current dslr's, the only thing I missed was not being able to scroll quickly through iso values and having to preset 3 of them only.

If you work with small formfactor dslr's only it's important to have at least one camera with good image stabilization so you can shoot handheld without a complicated and oversized cage, I prefer to have my set up as small and simple as possible, yet very effective for what I need it for. For instance, the onboard sound from my rx10 or gh4 is good enough for recording ambient sound to record just general chatting in the morning during brideprep, if I need good sound on keymoments such as speeches I use external audiorecorders. This saves me space on not using a shotgun, xlr boxes etc on the camera which would mean I would have to get a rig as well.

Also very important is how you are able to change settings on the fly without anyone noticing, most dslr's have a clicky iris ring while the sony rx10 does not, if I need to adjust the f-stop on my gh4 that's a lost moment that I need to cut out, with my rx10 I can keep that. There are a lot of good things to say about dslr's but functionality while shooting video is usually not one of them, something to consider if you are going to get rid of a more video oriented camera and get a small formfactor dslr instead. I would at least get one videocamera, such as a sony ax100 to cover your butt incase it goes wrong with your other camera's and no, I don't consider a gopro alike camera suitable for such an important function.

Noa - off topic the RX10 interests me - I've read it has built in ND yes? also how good is the AF in video mode? Also (so many questions) how is the stabilization vs the 'active stabilisation' you had on the EA50?

I said earlier in this thread that I'll be keeping the EA50 but also like Chris I want to downsize and protect my back lol! Do you have to use something like a Z-Finder for outdoor work? If so does that mean you can't use the flip function of the LCD screen? Filming in sunlight would be tricky without one.

Hi Pete

I'm already contributing to that thread! If you are looking at the RX10 then wait until the new one is out! It has 4K now! the current RX10 does have ND filters and also the lens is F2.8 constant ! Dunno about the Autofocus though??? Yeah my downsize issues are the same as yours ..the EA-50 with a big lens is a killer

I'm still looking at other systems without going over budget!! A lot of research is required I think and if I used a tiny form factor as my A-Cam I would also have to cost in a Beachtek adapter for my audio as I don't like recorders!

Chris

Noa - off topic the RX10 interests me - I've read it has built in ND yes? also how good is the AF in video mode? Also (so many questions) how is the stabilization vs the 'active stabilisation' you had on the EA50?

It has one ND to choose from which is sufficent for my needs but sometimes does require to increase the shutter if you want to stay at f2.8 in sunny condition, but I never have to go above a shutter of 200.

Autofocus is adequate, but don't expect a sony a6000 or canon 7d focussing, big advantage is that you can magnify the screen while recording video, like the ea50 can, to check on focus. Focus is only fly by wire and a bit tricky to set but it's not impossible to do. If I recall right there is not so much difference to the ea50 stocklens in autofocus performance. When I shoot wide I use autofocus all the time, when I zoom in I switch between autofocus to prefocus and manual focus to lock the focus when I shoot handheld.

I use the standard stabilization which can introduce some micro jitters, you have the active stabilization as well which crops the image and is supposed to be better but you loose a bit of resolution.

The one thing that is key for me is I like to just bring the EA50 up to my eye and block the sunlight out but also very quickly flip the loupe and rotate the screen for low or high shots - I'm just starting my quest now for a replacement as the amount of gear i'm carting around is ridiculous and heavy - to swap out the EA50 for something smaller and lighter would be great - where have you read about the new one - does it use AVCHD or XAVCS?

Pete

Shooting outside can be a problem because the viewfinder doesn't cover the eye like the eyecup of the ea50 does and the sun can seriously block your view if it shines between your eye and viewfinder. Shootng from an angle is also not that easy on the rx10 as I would have preferred a flipout screen like the gh4 has. You can choose between AVCHD and XAVCS.

I like the look of the flipout screen on the GH4 but the one of the RX10 looks similar to the one on my A7s and I'm getting used to that - maybe pop something like this on the shoe mount for sunny days.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pro-EVF-Electronic-View-Finder-3-5-LCD-Monitor-Viewfinder-For-HDMI-Video-Camera-/231570016444?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item35eaa608bc

Pete

Quite a few people do a GH series EVF or loupe so that wouldn't be an issue. The EA-50 loupe is much the same too .. I still have a couple of Hoodman loupes left over from my PannyAC-130 days and they come with an extension box that makes the loupe fit a 16:9 LCD

If you look at the price of a GH4 and some lenses it would probably come up to the same as the A7S roughly ... wouldn't it make more sense to buy a second A7S and not use the EA50 ??

Chris currently I only use the A7s for bride prep and evening receptions so maybe i'll try it for the rest of the day - bright sunlight would be a problem so I'll need to find a solution for that. As I'm typing I'm playing around with the A7s and 18-200mm f3.5/5.6 lens that came with my VG20 - the autofocus on the A7s is not too bad! Could be a solution here :)

Using this lens puts (I think) the A7s in APS-C mode so i'll need to do a direct comparison with the EA50/Canon F4 lens I use for ceremonies and speeches and see the difference in low light - I'll do it later this week.

Pete

I'm very impressed with the A7s autofocus - way much quicker than manual (fly by wire with the lens I'm using) and you can lock it really easily - awesome! plus the continuous AF while recording is smooooth!

However one solution always brings a problem - Only 1 card slot - the reason I bought the FMU was for peace of mind - I don't fancy attaching an external recorder - oh well :/

I cannot see why the A7S couldn't be used inside a Church even with a slow lens and that way you would have a pigeon pair. At ceremonies I have the static EA-50 in manual anyway and I'm sure that the A7S has the facility to frame, push the shutter half way and it's in focus ..it certainly has enough ISO in any Church. As for outdoor stuff a loupe or a LCD hood might be good enough to use?

I have a couple of these that work on LCD's well https://www.videoguys.com.au/Shop/p/22963/hoodman-hexkp-ex1-kit-pro-hexkp.html?gclid=Cj0KEQjwzPSrBRC_oOXfxPWP6t0BEiQARqav2BeydDvaYT5fME_anPzuItjE-LMQZi8biizWvbdAdMYaAoKC8P8HAQ

Probably 90% of my ceremonies here are outdoor so I would easily get away with the FZ1000 with all the bright sunshine we get .... I would have to play around with one for receptions but on the EA-50 I still need a light for the dancing even with the F1.8 Sigma lens as I lock the gain at 21db which is only around 2000ISO ... I think the FZ1000 would be pretty good at 3200 which is way more than the EA-50 can use!!

Chris

I have one of them for my 5D which would work Chris but I really do make use of the flip screen as when I'm filming people sat down at weddings I tend to shoot from the hip as it were, so with A7 I can just slide the LCD screen out to view it - same when it's a real crush I like to shoot by holding the camera over my head - again the LCD just tilts enough to let me do this - not as well as the EA50 but just enough.

I've just had a half hour filming the dog in the garden and to be honest the little viewfinder is not that bad - they eyecup is way too small and sony do not manufacture a better one, but I did see online a way of adapting a hoodman eyecup.

It always the same when looking into upgrading/alternatives that there is always something that ticks most of the boxes but never all of them :(

The ea50 is fantastic camera in 25p with good lens currently I think about it not to sell

A year and half ago, I bought two Canon XF300s. Other than the stupid FCPX glitch on the metadata, I've been pretty happy with them. As for the pre stuff at a wedding, I've switches to monopods and dslrs. It's just more flexible, unless were are doing photography and video, then I go back to tripods with the canons.

I do agree at the end of the day, it may not matter what you bring but how you use it. I can say that my steadicam is an eye opener at receptions, and our uniformity in cameras and clothing matters too.

So Chris, maybe do DSLR for your pre stuff and keep the big guns for the ceremony may help.

Chris,

I will play the devil’s advocate here just for fun. You’re not making sense. If this was really a black and white issue from a business perspective only I think you would be sticking with your EA50s. And I have an $800.00 solution to the size/weight issue.

I don’t need to write about what you shoot, format needs, etc. All of us regulars know about that. Suffice it to say you don’t need 4k and your current kit will technically meet your needs well for at least another year and maybe more. I don’t understand changing cameras and kit every two years based solely on time factor. That makes no sense to me? Two years in technological time is huge, but that is not your motivation. As a business decision, the longer you keep gear in use the greater the ROI. Using your EA50s for just one more wedding season would increase the return you got on your investment dramatically. I love every extra year I get out my cameras for that reason. I have been doing this for so long I have lost most of the thrill of getting new gear a long time ago. Upgrading anything means I am very honest about separating want vs. need. A major change like camera bodies means it has to have a real world impact on my product or my work flow. Based on your own information you do not have NEED to change.

As far as the weight and your back go I found a solution because I have the same problem. The EA50 is unique in that it has a hanycam little brother (so to speak) the VG30. I picked up a VG30 new/used off of e-bay because I wanted a light fly cam. A VG30 is literally the exact same guts as the EA50 has in a small light handycam. Same sensor, same processor, same lens mount, same image, same everything. I am blown away by how much I like it and use it. It turned out to be much more than just a fly cam. And it works with everything in my kit! I did not have to go through some big conversion process. I have the best of both worlds. You can pick them up used on e-bay for 800/900 bucks. I am now very happy with my 3 cam kit.

I shot a wedding a few weeks ago (yes unusual for me). I found the combination of the two EA50s and the VG30 to be stellar. At the reception I kept the EA50s on tripods for a solid main shot and I ran around handheld or black bird mounted with the VG30. It was perfect to give me multicam footage. Best of both worlds.

I think it is easy for you to look at the lower price of the cams your considering and say look at that, I can save money. I don’t see that happening. The body we choose is just a center piece of a big system. You are looking at a major conversion here by the time you build a new kit to be what you want it to be. You say you don’t like external recorders. You better change that thinking, they are a way of life if you go all DSLR. And by the time you “rig” your small cam with a light and audio and accessories I don’t see holding a rigged DSLR in front of you to really save your back much.

I see a hundred new posts coming from you as you ask the small cam guys for advice as you spend, spend, spend to build a whole new kit. It is a major change over.

If you want to change and go with new stuff that’s great. But add a VG30 to your existing kit and you could have it all.

Steve

If it weren't for the reason you mentioned about the size/weight of the cameras starting to become an issue then I would say stick with the EA50s for another season since we are in a transition period due to 4K and I believe that will affect HD camera offerings. Sony is rolling out new cameras already. As the manufacturers move to force 4K down our throats 1080P options will continue to get better. So this time next year there should be better cameras at a better value.....if you don't mind using the EA50s another season. :)

Thanks David and Steve

(I was hoping Steve would chip in!) That is a good idea actually! I never thought about VG30's light enough not to kill my back and matches the EA50 perfectly ... Funnily I'm quite happy to keep one EA-50 that I designate as my A-Cam ..it's on tripod for ceremony and speeches so that doesn't give me any back issues! It's the bugger on my shoulder that I need to change ...pop on the big Sigma and I'm already at nearly 5lbs on my shoulder and holding that up half the night is the killer ... I think Pete Rush is a lot younger than me and he complains too so it's no just me!!

Gotta take a look on eBay and see what VG30's are on offer. More options to look at ..I have just one EA-50 on eBay at the moment so it's highly likely I might just use one for A-Cam usage and a lighter one as my B-Cam

UPDATE: Woah!! I think I need to move to the USA! VG30's here retail for nearly $3000!! There was one used one for $2,0000 ...In the sub-$1000 category the best you can get is maybe a VG10 camera ...That sadly comes with the same stock lens as the EA-50 (well, 18-200 without the power zoom!) so that isn't going to perform any better than the EA-50 ..just a smaller body really but to work in low light I would be back to using the Sigma 18-35 F1.8 which weighs more than the camera by a LOT!!

Chris

Chris,

Hold on...it is e-bay. The prices go all over the map. They are always on there used for more than the NEW retail price. I don't know why? Body only there is two of them here for less than a grand and the e-bay "trending price" is listed at $1,049.00. I see them for 800/900 all the time. They will pop up for a reasonable price for you.

I think it is weird that B&H still has them new AND at about the same price as an EA50!

Steve

Thanks Steve

I still cannot see any "advantage" using a VG30 body sadly ..OK it weighs a lot less than a EA-50 body but really the difference is minimal as it's only plastic and electronics in there. The big issue for me is that to do wedding receptions the EA-50 "bits and pieces" still need a F1.8 zoom to be practical and not use a video light ..that's what is causing the problem for me ..it's the darn lens that adds the BIG weight ...an EA-50 body only is half the weight you need to carry .. the fast lens up front is the other half and it's all hanging off the front too ... no issues if you are on tripod but receptions are 90% handheld and 2lbs of lens hanging from the front of a relatively light body is what kills your arms and back! Using my EA-50 for ceremonies and speeches is a piece of cake ..no stress and no stain as it's always on a tripod ... it's the hand held stuff that's killing me ....I wonder who makes an F1.4 zoom that only weighs 200 grams ???

Chris

Did you not have a suspension rod that attached to a belt? I thought that took all the weight from your hands?
You say you need a f1.8 zoom for practical reasons not to use a light, why do yo think the f2.8 to f4.0 from the fz1000 will be ok to use instead? I take it you plan to go back to using a videolight then?

Hi Noa

Yep I have it but as you found the EA-50 is still very bulky ... I wasn't even considering the FZ1000 for receptions ... The only light weight camera for that scenario is the A7S I guess?? I'm simply trying to downsize and the operative word is "SIZE"

Still looking at options and suggestions

Chris

You said before that you even found the gh4 too expensive so that should rule out that a7s as that will be even more expensive coupled with a good stabilized zoomlens.

If I was you and had to re-invest into entirely new camera's I"d get a sony ax100 (or a x70 with 4k option if I needed the xlr) and a sony a7s with one f4.0 good wide to tele stabilised zoomlens and then I"d get a sony a6000 with a fixed fast wideangle lens for my steadicam. The a6000 has impressive autofocus which can be very usable in certain situations. I'd then get a Nebula alike handheld stabilizer (which function a lot better then the feiyu type stabilisers) and fit all that in one backpack.

Thanks Noa

That's worth a look at!! At this stage I still have both cameras so they are going nowhere in the immediate future as I cannot take the risk of selling them off and ending up with not enough to replace them. I have to work it so I can purchase new gear and still keep the old stuff just in case my decision was a bad one!

Being my income I have to have immediate access to gear as I could get a shoot tomorrow for all I know!

So far I haven't found anything that will give me the same results both inside and outside and allow me to have a lighter load (without some serious expenditure) so I'm still looking !!! I really do need a nice fast lens for receptions though that doesn't weigh a ton .... did you ever shoot 25P and 1/25th shutter on yours ..the extra gain in that mode could enable me to use something like an F2.8 prime instead of the heavy F1.8 which would help a lot!!

Chris

How can I move smoothly in 25p?
logically at a higher speed should have been move smoothly but do not do it why?
it will definitely be with 25p or 30p Test footage shot with Sony’s NEX-EA50UH APS HD NXCAM camcorder on Vimeo

Chris, have you considered a camcorder with built in zoom lens, say the Canon XA20? F1.8-2.8 20X lens, camcorder format and XLR audio inputs. No lenses to change and balance stays the same whatever focal length you are using.

Just a thought.

Dave