Some will have seen my post about an Ebay auction last week. I followed the advice of some guys, and started the auction at 99p to gain loads of 'watchers', added loads of video reviews, gave a great description, talked about it's second hand cost on other sites....

and then the auction ended yesterday and I'm pretty pissed off!

It went for £196 - I'd rather kept it in a drawer as a spare than sold it for that!

I bought it for £600/£650 I think - two years ago, and the only places I can see it selling elsewhere online are two used sellers on Amazon - £530 and £520.

Leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

Sorry - just a little rant as I set off to package it up...

Feel free to share similar stories!

Wasn't it your cx730? I was planning to sell some of my gear as well the following months but like you said fear that it just won't be worth it and better to keep on using them for the odd occasion I might need a multicam setup.

My cx730's are mainly used for longer continuous events and they have performed brilliantly, I think I paid around 830 euro for them but with all these 4K handicams coming out their resale value has gone down, I still think for families that want an easy camera to get great looking footage with the "HD" cx730 would still be a better choice then a 4K handicam because most don't even have a suitable pc to edit 4K. I even got a groom that wanted to know what type of camera I used and he bought a cx730, I saw him at his friends wedding where I had to shoot and he was telling how happy he was with the camera which he used for holidays.

Same applies for my gh3, new it can be had for around 800 euro now, selling this one second hand will also be difficult.

There is a way to research on Ebay to see what an item's sale price history is. This would have showed you what you could have expected to get.

Look on the bright side - you now have £196 to spend on something you need, instead of something which you'd never use cluttering up your storage space and which if you'd sold next year you would have got less for, and you've made someone happy because they think they got a bargain. There's thousands of people still hanging on to worthless VHS gear solely because it initially cost them heaps.

That makes me sick.

I paid £900 for my PJ780VE (which is pretty much the CX730) ...

£4,500 for a pre-owned FS700 (without 4K firmware) and now they go for £2000-2500 (WITH the 4k firmware).

It's all luck. The best thing to do in my opinion is put everything on buy it now with best offer. Never do 99p auctions. It's just way too risky.

It's been 3.5 years since the FS700 came out. If it was really $4500 then (which is close to what it was brand new) and you could sell it for $2000 now, you've spent $2500 on a camera for 3 years. That's $71/month. Anyone with any talent should be getting $71 an HOUR for shooting, leaving you the remainder of the month to make profit.

I just got an FS5 to replace my FS100, and was thinking... I paid $4500 for that (used) FS 100 four years ago. It's probably worth $1k now. I'm pulling down $100k a year on a camera that cost me $900 a year. A frickin' bargain.

I could have put on a Buy It Now, and just kept relisting and stuck to my guns. I would say if I wanted it to go at £400, I'd have probably been waiting a few months...

But the reality is, It's that time of year, I was doing a clear out, and was looking for money.

Mike is of course correct - and the gear cost is a drop in the ocean compared with the money it makes us - but gear just used to have a longer career, and earn you money for longer - it still just sucks.

I play some fantasy football, and pay for transfers almost weekly to try to put out the best possible team - I often feel I just need to trust what I have, and let them earn points for a good run.

That may be the same with gear. I may just need to ignore the new product releases for a few years, and just concentrate on my product...

I know you can check the historical price of an item on Amazon using a Chrome extension called Camel Camel Camel. They have a website, too, though I just use the extension. Shows Amazon's, 3rd party new, and 3rd party used prices. Very handy.

If you want to sell something for a set price, doing it used on a site like Amazon (or here) seems like the best choice. To sell it no matter what, eBay is the way.

I have sold quit a lot of stuff on eBay over the years. Research what the items sell for by searching eBay on Sold then you will have a realistic price. Then sell as a Buy It Now. If it's a more unusual item the you can sel by Auction but put a reserve price on then you won't be gutted when it sells for a pittance.

Clive -

Sorry about your stink-o auction result...

Mike is 110% correct. The online "auction" ONLY works if you're selling a "hot" product... ebay no longer has the page views, traffic, and buyers the way it used to, PERIOD. That means if you use auction format on a high $$ value (but relatively niche interest) item, the odds are VERY good that you'll get a crap final sale price.

If you have a mis-spelling, or otherwise fail to optimize your listing, it can be even worse... you won't even get seen! This means you'll get picked of by someone who specifically searches for the listings that are not seen by ebay's "WORST MATCH EVER" (they call it "best match"... pfffft) algorithm. No one knows what's baked into their search algorithm, but I can guarantee you, it's not favorable if you don't at least try to optimize your listing to what MIGHT be in the algorithm!!

HD cameras still have a market, but it's not what it was, with cell phones having eliminated many "average buyers"... plus prices are soft around the holidays when everyone is buying NEW stuff for other people.... so really good gear can go for peanuts!

I posted on your original posting, said it then... sorry to hear you instead took ebay's advice on how to list (they want you to start low, and sell low, they want VOLUME... and the cheapest sale price still gives them a "Final Value Fee" even if you gave your stuff away!!). When you realize the cut they will take on your lousy outcome auction, you'll be even sicker! They don't care if they give you the worst possible "advice".... and believe me, as a seller, if they give me "free advice", I typically RUN in any other direction!!!

The reason they give you some "free" listings is they know NO SANE PERSON would pay to list with what they currently deliver, and they hope you'll put your stuff up CHEAP. I won't go into using the "suggested prices" that they "give" you - do your own research on sales prices, and don't trust a single thing ebay says about what you should sell for!! The coder that created their "average selling price" calculator had no idea how you calculate an "average" - it can be as much as 90% "off", 30-50% is typical!!


I made a HUGE mistake earlier this year when they offered a "special" (reduced FVF if memory serves) and listed a few things "auction format", it was horrific, and I don't think I'll ever do it again, unless it's something I just want rid of, and don't care what I get (and even then I'd at least protect by putting an opening bid high enough to cover my shipping costs!!). I had one thing that sold for opening bid, about half of verified sale prices, and not only that the buyer put some cheap crap memory card (from ebay!) in it... and when the camera didn't work, blamed the camera, causing me a LOT of grief over a sub $20 sale!!!



Let's say you asked 400 BIN, w/best offer.... sure a few bozos would offer you the 200 you got, and if that was all you got, you might even take that... but I can virtually guarantee you would have gotten more, even if it wasn't 400! If the 400 was a GOOD DEAL, you might even have had someone snag it, I know I look for those sort of bargains myself! I've also picked off a few steals from auction listings that don't see any competitive bidding too...


I do quite a bit of ebay, saves me HUGE amounts over buying "new", and by listing correctly, I get decent returns... sometimes even buying from someone who lists the way you did, if it's something I decide I don't "need", but was too cheap to resist, and I can put it back up and make some spare change!

As a final thought, ebay should not be approached "casually", you MUST know a bit about what you're doing, or you'll quickly become very discouraged!

It's been 3.5 years since the FS700 came out. If it was really $4500 then (which is close to what it was brand new) and you could sell it for $2000 now, you've spent $2500 on a camera for 3 years. That's $71/month. Anyone with any talent should be getting $71 an HOUR for shooting, leaving you the remainder of the month to make profit.

I just got an FS5 to replace my FS100, and was thinking... I paid $4500 for that (used) FS 100 four years ago. It's probably worth $1k now. I'm pulling down $100k a year on a camera that cost me $900 a year. A frickin' bargain.

I understand but I've only had mine for 14 months now. And prices in the UK / Europe always stay much higher than eBay USA for some reason.

Mike is 110% correct. The online "auction" ONLY works if you're selling a "hot" product...
To be clear, these are two separate thoughts. I'm correct, and then Dave's completely separate and disparate thought on the issue that I disagree with.
I understand but I've only had mine for 14 months now. And prices in the UK / Europe always stay much higher than eBay USA for some reason.
Then the problem is not that you got ripped of selling an FS-700, the problem is you got ripped off buying an FS-700.

It's all luck. The best thing to do in my opinion is put everything on buy it now with best offer. Never do 99p auctions. It's just way too risky.

Apologies, Mike, somehow a brain cloud conflated your correct posts about value and James' post about auctions...

Equipment seldom goes up in value (thus why I much prefer to buy slightly used, hopefully at a significant discount), but if a tool does the job and makes a return (monetary or otherwise), that should be satisfaction enough. It's still hard when you watch prices just collapse on something you own, but it is what it is, "last years model" won't bring the same $ when this years' hits the shelves - that's just how it goes... cars, electronics, phones, cameras... seldom go UP over time! I'm sure the HDV cam I kept around to dump a stack of tapes will probably cause a tear when I see what it'll sell for...

If one does it right, and takes care of their gear, it's a "bonus" to be able to recover a good part of the value from a used piece to go towards the latest and greatest. Clive unfortunately violated about every rule of selling on "today's ebay" if one wants to get decent results...

Ha! Dave, I violated every rule? A bit harsh there?

How many listings do you see with links to review videos and links to other sites showing the 'going price'.

In fact, in my previous thread in which I was worried it would go for too litlle and then decided to cancel the auction, I was told by some that my error was having my starting price too high. I was advised that a low starting price would gain more interest and 'watchers'.

My only crime was that I needed to sell gear, and didn't have the time to wait months for an unusual product to sell at it's actual value on a buy it now.

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But... a development - the buyer said the screen is wobbly! (I never thought it was a defect to be honest). He has asked for a return.
I said 'Are you sure? You bought this for £196, when they are going used on Amazon for £530'.
But he said he wanted to return it.

He got no arguments from me!

Did your camera have a lcd screen that was a bit loose? I often see products on ebay where they describe certain defects so you are aware about it and shouldn't complain afterwards, I"m not sure what ebay's policy is for users that are not satisfied, are you obligated to take the camera back, even if they complain about a defect that has been mentioned before?

Clive, your mistake was to sell using an auction listing without setting a reserve price.

Noa, basically if a buyer complains about anything (whether it's a valid complaint or not) you had better accept the return as it's less hassle. There are unscrupulous sellers on eBay who don't mention defects but there are also unscrupulous buyers who claim that there are faults & try & negotiate a partial refund with the threat of leaving bad feedback if you don't comply. Buyers have to return items at their own expense so you don't really end up out of pocket by accepting a refund.

The problem I see is getting a camera back that the buyer may have damaged and you are stuck with a malfunctioning camera, try to proof who's fault that would be. I personally would not accept a camera back if a buyer would complain about a defect that was mentioned during the sale.

But... a development - the buyer said the screen is wobbly! (I never thought it was a defect to be honest). He has asked for a return.
I said 'Are you sure? You bought this for £196, when they are going used on Amazon for £530'.
But he said he wanted to return it.

He got no arguments from me!

Maybe he's seen the magic eyeball moving around and think's that it's a fault?

Regarding ebay - i simply put things on with a starting price which is the minimum i'll take for the item - normally works for me - putting a reserve on costs an extra fee

I'm not sure If my screen is defective or not. I have two of them and never felt that one's screen was any worse than the others. Will check when it comes back.

I didn't argue because for the price of postage I get a second chance of selling my camera at a price it's worth.

The guy obviously doesn't care about video quality otherwise he'd have realised £196 is a bargain even if the screen is defective...

Clive, today's ebay, as you've found out, is NOT the way ebay used to be... unless you sell regularly, you probably don't know where and how it's changed, and there's a LOT of "bad advice" out there on "how to sell". Not being harsh, just factual. Worse yet, a lot of the buying is now coming from mobile, and that interface creates a whole other set of challenges....

Your first post you weren't getting activity and looked like it was going to go cheap, second round it DID go cheap... As I recall your title probably wasn't getting good results with best match search (just getting the title right is a dark art, and makes a HUGE difference in whether you even get seen at all). Your pricing approach was a recipe for disaster...

Used to be you could put up a listing with a terrible title, bad pictures and a lousy description, and get a dang bidding war in the last 15 seconds that would leave you shaking your head with how much you got... NOT on "todays ebay", you have to get a lot of things optimized, count on little activity, and be prepared to work for your $$... or cry after your auction ends. Ebay today is NOT for novices or the inexperienced, you can "lose your shirt", or at least paying to give it away. But if you do it right, it's still the best game in town... IF you do it right...


The approaches I use have been widely used and vetted by other successful sellers who have survived the many changes on ebay, and yes, sometimes you end up sitting on something for a few weeks until a serious buyer comes along, but you also don't end up crying as you wrap something, or worse yet, as you're discovering (same as I described earlier), having an inexperienced buyer who has NO IDEA what they are buying (they don't care that they got it for a song... they don't even know what it is they bought!!), and will come back to complain and nick your further....

You've actually gotten "lucky" - these screens NORMALLY have some play in them built into the hinge (otherwise they'd snap , I reckon), although I've seen a FEW where the screws get loose and they have more than just "spring" in them. I'll guess yours is just springy, which you'll be able to see when it comes back. IF when it gets back you feel it's an issue (when checked against your other cameras as a good "test"), just mention it in the listing. I've seen production variances, and I mention them, describing them as just that, and mentioning how I feel they might be seen as a problem... I've had very few returns.


When you relist, take time and get the title right (if you want to post the old listing #, I'll be happy to give it a quick look and make suggestions). For pricing, IF you use the auction format, don't start low, unless you want to sell low, I prefer a starting price no lower than the minimum you'll take rather than a reserve (a reserve often keeps bidders away, as they can "win" the bidding, but come up empty with reserve not met, wasting time).

I'll again suggest you use the Buy It Now with offer, use their automatic relist function once the listing is up, and you can adjust your price if you aren't getting hits and watchers, using the "revise" function.

Try to find a time when people will be able to bid (but don't COUNT on any 'bidding wars", they don't happen often). I personally try to use a sniping program so I don't forget, but yep, sometimes I forget and don't set the snipe... People have a LOT of distractions... that's another reason not to tie yourself to an "ending time" - BIN/offer ends when you and a buyer agree on a price, anytime, day or night!


You've been given a rare "second chance" (and I don't mean you sell it to the second bidder using that mostly useless ebay function!). Take advice others have given on how to compare SOLDS and ones that don't end up selling (keep in mind that even among SOLD listings, you could have HUGE variances in the ending price depending on condition and accessories and so on - it's worse on "thin market" niche items), and we'll all cross our fingers toes and eyes that you get a good result this time!!!

Be sure to cancel the first sale and refund from the original PayPal transaction so you don't end up paying fees.

Just looked up your original post....

Here's a couple suggestions on your title:

Original: Sony CX730 Camcorder Steadyshot

You've got a lot more characters available, USE THEM. Around here we know what a CX730 is, even if we're from the states, but you need to get the "sizzle" in the title for ebay...

Use the whole model # (and if possible, link to the ebay catalog IF it's in there and reasonably correct, which it may or may not be) so... HDR-CX730. If the ebay catalog is, as so often happens wrong or nonexistent, take the time to create an entry - they've somehow baked in all the variables into the search algorithms and those that might present "similar items" should someone be searching for a "HD CAMCORDER" or "Video Cam". I personally hate "the Catalog", but you need all the help you can get to show up in their search algorithms!

SAY "FULL HD 1080/60p" in the title, BOSS Steadyshot, EXTRAS if you've included any, EXCELLENT, or XLNT COND if you've got spare characters.

Think like a total noob, and try to figure out what search terms you might use if you were trying to find a good family video camera. Same goes for the description - sell the sizzle... relatively large sensor, good in low light, BOSS steadyshot makes your handheld video look super stable instead of wobbly, clear LCD and viewfinder, and so on...

Reshoot your pictures, you can't even tell the camera has a viewfinder the way they are shot (cut off in 3rd pic). You're given 12 pix, USE THEM, gives buyers more confidence when they can see it's in beautiful condition! I typically shoot close ups from all angles - top bottom, sides, front and back. Think like you were picking this up in a store, what would you look at as you examined it?

I can see what you're selling, and honestly I'd be the guy that would pick you off on the cheap and resell for double... because your title, description and pictures are coming up short. I look for auctions and BIN like this all the time... I'm letting you in on some "inside secrets"...

Hope you can get a better result this go round!

The guy obviously doesn't care about video quality otherwise he'd have realised £196 is a bargain even if the screen is defective...
I will take a different tack than everyone else - keep in mind I have done zero research here, and I know nothing about what you're trying to sell - but it's been my experience that non-mis-spelled listings that don't have other fatal flaws (no photos, weird Nigerian phrasing) pretty much sell for market price. The tips you have received here are excellent, from using the rest of your title space ("HD Camcorder", etc) and start times (the obvious suggestion is Sunday night), but my experience is that can affect your end price in the ballpark of 10%. There is also 10% attributable to luck (bidding war, etc).

If you are hoping to get £500 this time even though you got screwed with £196 last time, be prepared to get screwed again. With all the prep here, you might get £225 or MAYBE £250, but IMHO stuff on eBay sells for market price.

Market price is what someone will pay... which can vary widely. Ebay says they are putting you out there in a wider market... but in reality you are being "hidden" behind a LOT of variables, especially their wack search algorithms, which are likely highly flawed - no one knows, because they aren't sharing their search methods... all I can say is that they aren't "good"... and you MUST use every advantage you can or you'll come up with a lousy result.

I accidentally put in ONE wrong letter in a model #, wondered for two relists why it wasn't getting ANY hits or interest... when I finally noticed my error (head pounding desk), I fixed it, and shortly thereafter got a decent offer and sale... it can be THAT silly an error, and if it had been a .99 auction list, I might have given away a $600 sale for around a buck... fortunately, with BIN/ofr. I didn't "pay" for my clumsy error!


As I'm in the US, a search for a "CX730" doesn't show any sales... UK/EU model after all... HOWEVER, the US equivalent model is a CX760, one listed at just under $800, solds at ~ $600 and $700, with one oddball that looks like a scam lisiting from CZ republic at $250-ish.... PJ760 (same model + projector), just under $500 up to $750 ish...

Converting $ to pounds, that's a "low" of about 100 pounds over the "market price" with the way it was listed, up to potentially nearly 300 pounds... that's a "heavy" difference!

If it were 50, I'd call it "seasonal" variation or somesuch, but this is why I'm giving Clive such a "hard time" (really not, trying to HELP... but anyway). He shouldn't get snookered just because ebay is a mysterious hot mess! He asked for "help", from what I could tell, he's gotten some excellent advice (worth more than "free" anyway!).

I've rounded, but this is a decent "eyeballing" of the "market"... that doesn't mean you can't find well "out of range" sales like Clives'! I pick stuff up for WAY less than "market" quite often, I figure the person on the other end is glad to get a quick sale from someone who actually PAYS, and if there are minor flaws... if the price was right, I don't worry about it! I'd fix a "wobbly screen", use the camera, and resell it after I didn't need it, probably for a profit! I will say I've been "closing out" HD cameras from my collection, as 4K has stolen the fire for me, but I still get decent $$ (though not what I "wish") for the ones I sell...



FWIW, ebay's screwed up even the way the categories are displayed, so it's hard to even narrow down a "comp" search... sometimes I just am amazed at how NOT functional ebay has become since they put in the current programming team... the old one was bad enough (all I'll say is when they have to call a member to track and kill 3 major mission critical bugs... I'm not impressed, and that was the OLD team).

Here's hoping Clive will get his beastie back the way it went out, and with all the "free" advice will get a result to cheer about, and he can buy a few virtual beers for the crew!