Because I like to create short compilation of clips similar in length and style to Doug's masterpiece and because I have little better to do I have developed the habit of seeking to understand exactly what it is that makes such a compilation as this so compelling; learning from the Master, if you will. It is not often that I encounter a piece that fires me up, inspires me and stimulates me to create as this one does.

And while I certainly would not underestimate or downplay Doug's grading skills as demonstrated here the things that really got my attention are his camera work, sequencing of subject matter within the general broad context of the marine environment, length of individual clips (mostly about 3 seconds which to me seems just about right) and his selection of the soundtrack. A few tastefully done focus pulls and excellent use of fade in and outs, and cuts add to the overall excellence.

Nothing gimmicky like an over-abundance of shallow DoF shots that are all the rage and outrageous color manipulation including rank over-saturation nor blue green orange and teal all over the place, and that's all to be applauded.

With this small production the single most important take home for me is his camera work, smooth and skillful framing in particular. Seems to me he gets it remarkably right in the camera at square one. I'm thinking there is nothing more important.

That's my learning today. Many thanks Doug.

Here is a demonstration clip of how the Z150 does at maximum 33db gain up. This was shot with REC709 gamma, no black gamma stretch, and gain se to 0 with +1 crispening, which cuts down gain noise. Of note is how the highlights look, like the wheels and the license plate. I can't really make out any pixel movement or noise in the bright stuff.....obviously, the shadows suffer more. If you've experienced the X70 at 33db gain, you will see this Z150 is at 33db what the X70 is noise wise at 27db. Looks better obviously prior to YouTube compression.

https://youtu.be/4hy2Zz9jukM

Paul - a way back there was a discussion about WA adaptors for the X70. Does the one you got also work for the Z150 (I got a used very similar JVC 0.82x that did the job) ? It looks like the same lens on both cameras, so I guess it would.

Thanks,
Terence

The Z150 has the same 62mm lens. I am using my EXII 16x9 0.8x adaptor still, but EX makes a "Z5" bayonet adaptor ring, that fits the bayonet system of the Z150 as well. I can now "twist n lock" the same converter I had to thread onto my X70 onto the nose of my Z150. MUCH MORE CONVENIENT!

Paul

Thanks, Paul - good to know.

-Terence

The Z150 has the same 62mm lens. I am using my EXII 16x9 0.8x adaptor still, but EX makes a "Z5" bayonet adaptor ring, that fits the bayonet system of the Z150 as well. I can now "twist n lock" the same converter I had to thread onto my X70 onto the nose of my Z150. MUCH MORE CONVENIENT!

Paul

Paul

Do you have a name/link for the the "Z5" bayonet adaptor of which you speak? Thanks.

0.8x version https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/652929-REG/16x9_Inc_169_HDWC8X_Z5_169_HDWC8X_Z5_EXII_0_8x_Wide.html

0.75x version 16x9 Inc 169 HDWC75X Z5 EXII 0 75X Wide Lens Converter with Bayonet Mount for Sony Cameras | Full Compass (http://www.fullcompass.com/prod/157907-16x9-Inc-169-HDWC75X-Z5?utm_source=googleps&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=googleps&st-t=googleshopping-all_products_low_bid&vt-k=&vt-mt=&vt-pti=157907&gclid=CjwKEAjw1qHABRDU9qaXs4rtiS0SJADNzJisSsK7mfHVj4eij8be7wjsjN3TuoQqDYAsm8xYQtXTHxoC-Ojw_wcB)

16x9 Inc sells the Z5 "ring", which can be screwed onto the back of any of their EXII converters, so if you find an 82mm or 72mm or Panasonic bayonet version, you can simply unthread the bear ring and convert it to the bayonet mount system. I got my EXII bayonet mount 0.8x version for $150 brand new. Apparently, because the Z5 is not made any more, they considered the lens not as valuable ot he market.

Sony also makes a direct bayonet mount converter. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/used/598432/?gclid=CjwKEAjw1qHABRDU9qaXs4rtiS0SJADNzJisxQsg0hGXVGGqNA00CrIBd0TqyjvT_9IeYWiuMbnrRRoC6B_w_wcB&c3api=1876%2C52934714882%2C

Paul

Paul, now I'm intrigued: to your experience, does the bayonet fit the X70?

thanks

Nope, the X70 has a little snot, the Z150 has that big flat oversized front end, which is why it accepts a 72mm converter!

Paul

Paul, thanks for your reply.

I looked at the 16x9 inc site. I suspect the Z5 ring would have been found in the category "Threaded Rings" but despite having the page there, there are no listed products.

But just to be clear that I've understood you correctly, you are talking about a ring which allows you to mate a lens with a given thread size to a wide angle converter with a bayonet mount? Analogous to the way in which a step up or down ring allows you to use filters of a different thread size than the lens you're putting it on.

The rear adapter rings are a "service part" from 16x9 inc. Their EXII adapter/converters all have the same rear threading, the only thing that distinguishes them is which rear ring they screw onto the back. The rear ring is held tight by a small allen screw.

If you search 16x9 EXII on eBay, you will see some of the various different types of rear mounting options they offered, such as the Panasonic HVX bayonet. I have 82mm, 72mm, and the Z5 bayonet rings, so I can mount my single EXII converter on a broadcast 2/3" lens, a JVC 650 threaded front end, or my Z150.

My advice if you cannot find a cheap Z5 ringed version of what you want, find a Z5 version that is unpopular and buy it at a bargain price just to use the Z5 bayonet ring. :-)

Paul

A question on the high speed mode:
Does the Z150 save the high speed (120fps) clips as 1920x1080 120p, or does it roll it into a 30p format?
Same question for the AX53 as well.

If the file is saved as 120p (same as the AX100), then sound will be recorded also, right?


Thanks,
Mark

When you record at 120 fps with the Z150's High Frame Rate mode, the clip that results from shooting with that mode is identical to an ordinary clip when you ingest it into your NLE. Nothing special needs to be done to it. But that doesn't necessarily mean it will be 30P. It could be 24P, 30P, or even 60P depending on the recording format that you've selected. No audio is ever recorded in the HFR mode or the regular S&Q Motion mode.

https://vimeo.com/ondemand/z150

Thanks Doug. I'm on the fence debating getting another AX100, an AX53 or the Z150.

Mark

I don't know anything about the AX100 an AX53, but you will not be disappointed by the Z150. It is a full-featured professional camcorder in every way you'd expect.

Looking at some reviews of the Z150, Alister Chapman says in his review that the high speed mode clips are saved as interlaced files. Also, I've read that you can choose 60Mbps or 100Mbps for the HFR mode.

I find the interlaced part hard to believe, and I want to believe the 100Mbps info.

Any confirmation on this would be appreciated. I want the camera by Feb. so maybe I'll come across it in a Japan store by then. So far I haven't seen one to play with.

Mark

He's wrong.

Doug Jenson just posted some footage he took with the camera up in Camden, Maine:
Sony PXW-Z150 4K Test Footage on Vimeo (https://vimeo.com/173282735)

Very nice video!

I was thinking about the NX100 as my entry level pro camcorder, but I noticed recently that there are very nice 4K IPS panel TVs coming at under 500$, and that has caused me to start getting second thoughts about 'future proofing' etc.

Trouble is, it is not easy to land jobs which can justify 4K-capable equipment in my area.
Decisions, decisions...

N.F.

Future proofing should always be at the forefront of any equipment decision.

And keep in mind that the Z150 offers a ton of features that aren't on the NX100r. So even though you might not need 4K today, there are many other things to consider. In my opinion it would be extremely short-sighted to get an NX100 today. I talk about the major differences between the two cameras in the first few minutes of this 41:00 video:

Doug Jensen’s Sony PXW-Z150 & HXR-NX100 Master Class - CHAPTER ONE FREE! on Vimeo

Thanks about the reference.
I was under the impression that the Z150 and NX100 shared the same sensor.

If I remember correctly, there are some limitations when recording in 4K:
- no clear zoom
- S&Q is limited to using only interlaced 1080i video (it would be wonderful to offer that capability in 4K, but I understand that the hardware is probably limited, which leads to another limitation regarding multiple streams etc.)

That said, I am trying to make a business case for either of these models (working in 4K will mean a need for a new computer as well, and a 4K TV for review, etc.- it is a whole chain of events)

Regards,
N.F.
PS. It was very helpful to see the Youtube video using automatic subtitles for non native English speakers like me. I think that Vimeo doesn't offer such a facility?

...If I remember correctly, there are some limitations when recording in 4K:
- S&Q is limited to using only interlaced 1080i video (it would be wonderful to offer that capability in 4K, but I understand that the hardware is probably limited, which leads to another limitation regarding multiple streams etc.)...

Nick,

The camera does not record S&Q in interlaced, it's all 1080 progressive.

You are in PAL land, so when you get this camera, you would go into the menu system and under OTHERS, you would have a choice there of 50i or 60i. For PAL, you select 50i.

This selection will determine the choices available for several other menu items, including S&Q. Once you have chosen 50i, when you go to your S&Q menu, you will have a choice of recording either 25P or 50P in XAVC HD or AVCHD formats, or 25P in MPEG HD 422 or MPEG HD 420.

The camera is going to actually shoot at 100fps, but then roll that into a slow-motion format per your recording mode choices. So if you were to select something with 25P, you would see a 4x slow-mo on playback.

If you had selected 60i in the OTHERS menu, the choices would be a little different, and it would be at 120fps.


Mark

Okay, I need a nap.

Thanks for the clarification, I was under the impression that in S&Q was recording interlaced HD from other posts (maybe I confuse her with the NX100?).

I find it irritating that Sony didn't build a world camera, I would love to record 120 fps and roll back to 25 fps for example. And, if I had to shoot outside EU, that would probably force me to get a second camera.
Oh, and disabling 24p video for PAL users doesn't make much sense to me - if I wanted to shoot for cinema, would I be forced to buy an NTSC version?

Cheers,
N.F.

This is a world camera, but you just have to choose in the menu 50i or 60i to go between PAL or NTSC.

If you are shooting S&Q mode in 60i mode (NTSC) you get a choice of 24P, 30P or 60P in XAVC HD or AVCHD formats, and 24P or 30P in MPEG HD 422 or MPEG HD 420. Aside from the S&Q mode, the format and frame rate choices are abundant.

I don't own this camera, but if I were going to shoot cinematic with it, I'd probably go with the XAVC QFHD (4K) recording format 2160/24p @100Mbps. I bet that looks pretty good.

It seems like a decent camera, but just wasn't ticking the right boxes for what I'd use it for. For one thing, I'd want more like a 20x zoom and this has 12x.


Mark

I *think* (but I may be wrong) that you cannot have both 50 Hz and 60 Hz modes in the same body. I am pretty certain that the NX100 has this limitation.

Theoretically, the ClearZoom technology gives you extra reach (but in HD, I think, not in 4K). I think that I shall have to download the PDF manual for another round of study.

Cheers,
N.F.

I'm confused by your statements that seem to be at odds with each other.

I *think* (but I may be wrong) that you cannot have both 50 Hz and 60 Hz modes in the same body.

I find it irritating that Sony didn't build a world camera.

It's all Greek to me :)

On the X70 you can do both PAL and NTSC. Just needs a few more button clicks.

I *think* (but I may be wrong) that you cannot have both 50 Hz and 60 Hz modes in the same body. I am pretty certain that the NX100 has this limitation.

Theoretically, the ClearZoom technology gives you extra reach (but in HD, I think, not in 4K). I think that I shall have to download the PDF manual for another round of study.

Cheers,
N.F.

ClearImage zoom works in both HD and UHD...the dispaly says Ci all the way to 2x, even though ClearImage is suppossed to stop at 1.5x in UHD mode. The difference between Clear Image and the 2x+ "Digital Zoom", is that Clear Image continues to process detail/sharpening scaling, and once you go past 2x, digital zoom just magnifies the already sharpened pixels, which looks harsh by comparison.

I was thinking about the NX100 as my entry level pro camcorder, but I noticed recently that there are very nice 4K IPS panel TVs coming at under 500$, and that has caused me to start getting second thoughts about 'future proofing' etc.
N.F.

IPS panels are a BAD choice for a UHD tv set...they have very low contrast and terrible black levels. You should only get one if you watch the set from the side angles frequently. On a PC monitor it might be a good thing, since your face might float around in front of it, but on a TV it sucks.

Paul

Most probably, I was confused by a statement that the NX100 is not a 'world camera', and I assumed that the same held for the Z150?

My muddy posts should be attributed to writing these past midnight...

Cheers,
N.F.

How's the autofocus? I have some run and gun outdoor shoots that may require some auto focus. Maybe also a little indoor (school classrooms)

I do run and gun exclusively, and never use autofocus...I do not find the camera to have an issue manually focusing and running around...the focus is so quick to turn it is never a issue.

Paul

I have some run and gun outdoor shoots that may require some auto focus.

Nothing requires auto focus. Someone may choose to use it because they think they lack the skills to focus manually, but that doesn't mean it is required. Break free from AF and you will never look back.

Nothing "requires" auto focus? Well, I suppose that is technically true but there are times that it "can" be useful. AF has come a loooooooong way in the past 5 years. It's getting accurate and very fast these days. Looking at the Z150's fly by wire lens system, it's not like you have true tactile, geared control of anything on that lens. All your ring responses are electronically buffered.

SD was easy to focus, HD harder and with 4k having 4 times the resolution? To manually lock on to very high frequency image details with an LCD or viewfinder that is 1/4 UHD resolution....even with peaking...is very difficult in a run and gun situation. Our own camera on-board monitoring systems are a relatively low resolution!...do we all not agree with this? We are focusing 8+ megapixel images with 1-2 mega pixel LCD/veiwfinders. Now that Sony is doing 6k sensor readout, their 4k images have even more detail these days.

Last year, I took my A6300 out to my backyard and shot my two dogs running at full speed in circles with each other. Lemme tell you, I manually focused pretty well on them but when I switched to auto? Holy crap, that high speed auto focus nailed those dogs running in and out of my DoF REALLY well.

When I played it back in camera in the yard, I though; "wow...I'm just a good as the auto focus". It's only when I got inside to my NLE and looked it in full 4k did I say..."Damn, this camera AF DID beat me....allot"

The technology is changing, it's only going to get get faster and smarter. I do agree with the "manual AF is great" idea and I love the fun and satisfaction of manual focus but I'm also becoming agreeable to the idea that Sony's latest AF technology is getting very "scary-good".

One last ting: In a chaotic situation that requires you to ride the Z150's (or other) fly by wire iris ring AND focus ring with the same fingers....all at once...with your thumb and four other fingers...together, at the exact same time...exposure and focus in different directions...with split second precision 4k acuracy....with a 1/4 UHD resolution monitor...while simultaneously zooming in and out? If anybody can master that 100%?...

P.S. Everybody uses AF at times but only the truest "pros" will never ever in a million years admit it publicly. We all know how shameful AF is in our industry. ;-)

Cliff,

Once again, we are in total disagreement.

I have never used AF in my whole 35 year career for anything except testing purposes when producing one of my training videos -- so that doesn't count. I have never used it on a real shoot.

OK, to be serious. If anybody can control "fly by wire" zoom, iris, exposure and perfect 4k focus on a one quater 4k resolution monitor on a chaotic run and gun scene....all simultaneously, moving together at once....than i take my hat off you or anybody than can. You are right, i certainly cannot do all things at the same time.

In manual focus, I rely heavily on focus expansion tools to get ultra tight focus. Im always over obsessed about focus and i always question it every 3 seconds. For me, i generally cant frame a fast moving object while my focus expansion is engaged. (Like sports athletes) Peaking is trustworthy much of the time but not always. But, whatever. ...everybody is different.


In the end, we see many things alike but i simply think that AF "can" be a usefull tool for certain things, thats all. I dont think that auto-anything (shutter, focus iris or auto ev+/-) is in any way shameful.

The ultimate goal for us is to "get the shot" perfectly. If one guy got the perfect shot full manual and another got the same shot perfectly focused eith AF...nobody will ever know. We only know when the focus is off or soft...thats the only time we know the camera guy screwed up. ( both AF or MF)

CT

A very simple "real world" situation could be this:

College football game - You are on the sidelines shooting - Quaterback thows the ball to a wide reciever, he catches and comes running straight at you with the sun behind him. He screams right by you on his way to the end zone which is in the shade cast by high bleachers.

Anybody that can stay in perfect 4k focus on a fly by wire lens while rolling the iris and zooming in and out on a tiny 1/4 resolution display? If somebody can do all that by themselves on a 7 second scene? That that guy is better than me. I take my hat off to that guy/gal.

This is not a hypothetical unreal situation. Its very real and happens commonly.

CT

Then take your hat off . . and leave it off. NFL Films, local news shooters, and broadcast cameramen do that kind of stuff on every weekend. What is the big deal? And something is either in focus or it is not in focus -- regardless of the resolution. What difference does 4K make?

Just because you can't do something doesn't mean others can't. Auto-Focus (at least in this day in age) is always an amateur crutch. Maybe someday it might be good enough for professional use, but not today.

You two remind me of some of my car enthusiast friends. One set insists that the only way to drive a car is with manual transmission. The other points out that current race cars use automatics because the driver just cannot change gear quick enough.

lol, I know Ron, it's pretty funny. But it's cool, I do love a spirited debate! ;-)

It's true Doug, I do have a hard time turning my iris ring with my index finger and thumb clockwise while simultaneously turning my focus ring counter-clockwise "accurately" with my pinky finger. I'm just not going to say I can.

Doug, your pinky finger (or ring finger) must me much stronger mine. Now, I "can" switch between grabbing my iris and focus rings "separately" and working each "individually" but I can't do them simultaneously on one hand in a 7 second chaotic wide receiver scenario like I stated.

Embarrassed? No Doug, I'm honest and not embarrassed to say I cant do that. Your two ring simultaneous spin while zooming skill is exceptional and not the norm, I think. I'm pretty sure all those guys on the sidelines never use auto anything...that would be crazy. Even though Google images seems to suggest otherwise.

How do you keep your ultra tight, phase detect quality, manual 4k focus on a small 1/4 resolution screen without relying on focus expansion? I can only guess that your eye sight is much better than mine as well. I myself am not very good and seeing razor sharp 8 megapixel images on little 2 megapixel LCD/Viewfinders. My glasses dont seem to get me any more than 2 megapixels either. I dunno, it's just me I guess.

"Focus expansion"...if "focus is focus" and your screen resolution doesn't matter? You dont use 4x and 8x focus expansion? God knows I do! That's prolly another "crutch" of mine.

Have you actually tried Sony's latest generation AF? Have you ever tried and Sony A6500 or even an A7R-II? If you haven't, than you might be surprised at how far Sony has come in only that last two years. Try them out at the Alpa tables at NAB this year.

For the record, I shoot 50% of the time with my Rokinon /Canon cine primes and they of course are 100% manual lenses only. A wedding? sure...a play?,..sure! Corporate training videos?..sure! Concerts...of course! I just wouldn't use those lenses on sidelines to shoot run and gun football chaos like that.

And also for the record, I sincerely do respect you quite a bit, I'm only having some fun with this topic. (and others too...it's just the way I'm programmed.)

At NAB in two weeks, I'll gladly shake your hand with big smile on my face as I have always done before. Hopefully, you wont punch me this time!

CT ;-)

"I'm not gonna hit ya! ..... I'm not gonna hit ya! .... The Hell I'm NOT!"
-- John Wayne

"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here... this is the War Room!"
-- Peter Sellers

Haha! I love this place!

It's the disagreement of ideas that makes it fun. If we all just sat arround and just agreed with each other everyday, how dead and boring would that be?

I agree more with everything that Doug teaches more than he actually knows!!. I just preach that i believe in possible exceptions to rules sometimes and that its OK to challenge long time believes. Its OK to explore different techniques or workflows.

Hell, 10 years ago...damn...3 years ago, I too would have said AF sucks, it will always burn you and NEVER use it. I used to preach that to my friends. My EX1r?...I dont think I ever seriously used AF on that. Why?....because that Fujinon geared lens was awesone....and the AF sucked.

However, i am now seeing a real technology change today that has made me question myself. Sony is working VERY hard on the AF technology and it truely is becomming a viable and practical tool today.

Its only going to get better and better at an exponential rate. Im all about getting the shot with the tools i can use....without, of course, getting burned by something "auto" screwing me up.

In the end, i dont care if i use AF or MF. I just need to nail focus as tight as i can get it. If get 100% what im going for, the ends justifies the means for me.

A real, highly skilled camera man uses a steadcam rig and spends hours practicing his skill. Me?...I "cheat" and use my DJI Ronin gimbal. Am I a cheater or an amature for using an electronic gimbal system? Maybe, but I get my shot and thats all I really care about. A friend of mine told me once, "Real camera guys learn how to use a real steadycam rig and dont rely on computerized gimbals" Sorry, i like my gimbal and it makes stabilization easy and quick.

Love the debates we have!!!

OK, to be serious. If anybody can control "fly by wire" zoom, iris, exposure and perfect 4k focus on a one quater 4k resolution monitor on a chaotic run and gun scene....all simultaneously, moving together at once....than i take my hat off you or anybody than can. You are right, i certainly cannot do all things at the same time

Not with fly by wire lenses, almost all of my lenses are fly by wire but none of them are accurate enough, focussing speeds depends on how fast you turn the focus ring and the end result is very unpredictable. Some work quite ok though but don't ask me to repeat a focus pull and nail it time after time, that's impossible, no matter how skilled you are.

Well?....I guess we might say that if you are repeating focus pulls, than Id say you are probably not in a true "run and gun" situation. For me, I consider some sports or filming COPS doing a drug raid. Or, maybe the ulitmate...war correspondence.

If im running arround Syria with a Z150, I can imagine myself keeping one hand on either focus or iris ring. Maybe the one my hand is not on is on auto.

But yeah...fly by wire controlls are "buffered" by the camera and that makes 100% manual control much more difficult.

All this talk makes me miss my EX1r!

CT

The only time I have ever even attempted autofocus in run and gun, is on my A7sII with f1.4 or f4.0 OEM lenses. It amazed me how well it worked in unbelievable dark situations in 4K. The problem with how I shoot run and gun at night, comes down to the lighting...high contrast brightly lit objects at varying distances, and the fact that lots of shots are not subject centered. I do use AF with face recognition on the X70 and Z150, that works very well when I hold the camera two feet to my right so my interview subject can look at me off camera. to my right.

In the daytime, or with subject centered content, I might actually trust these cameras to do a passable job. I prefer cameras that allow you to manually crank and hold when in AF, like my old X180 and my current JVC 650.

Paul

ok I'm impressed by the PXW-Z150, seems like something I could work with.

On the AF discussion, yea i've been burned by AF both on the PMW 200 and the AX-100's so for weddings etc. I went full manual and I've never had to edit out a out of focus clip since, course it's not as simple as that is it? you can have a cam set up unattended and you think the subjects will stay right where they are, but sometimes they might move out of the focus! AF can save that situation eh?

I covered a football match yesterday with the AX-100 and tried MF but had to turn on AF, TBH I found it difficult to keep the action in the frame not to mention the focus, oh yeah the sun was in and out too so the exposure was a bit ropey as well to say the least, however out of a full 90 minute game I'd say the AF failed not more than maybe three or four times.
My 2 cents!

:-)

I run my AX53 and AX100 with touch focus most of the time though when just shooting the family it is in auto focus. Exposure is always in AE shift with gain limit and fixed shutter speed. I find I need to have AE shift about -0.5 most of the time as the normal auto for the Sony's slightly over exposes in my mind. My wife uses the AX100 when we shoot theatre for the closeups and then she is in manual focus but uses touch focus to set the focus. Nice and quick and she can touch the thing she wants in focus. Has focus peaking to confirm. The control is always on AE shift so she can also move that too if she finds the exposure just off a little. Have zebra active for her too. It means she can focus more on the framing most of the time. I think the value of letting these small cameras expose in AE shift is it lets the engineers set the gain and iris at the optimum lens setting for the available light. They know where the sweet spot is for the camera in this price range. Looking at the data code the lens in this mode is rarely wide open there is always some gain. If you use the "exposure " control then you loose control of all parameters and I think the shutter speed is important when matching to other cameras shooting at the same time. The exposure control does of course really fix the exposure.