I have had a lot of Bogen and Manfrotto heads over the years and generally hate them. Still have several laying around but thinking of buying the 504HD fluid Head as my cheap, travel head. Just weighed my Sachtler head it weighs 12lbs which puts me over on weight limit for carrying it in my camera backpack and I cannot bring myself to check an expensive Sachtler head when multiple airlines have lost multiple bags and items out of bags for me over the years. The specs will work for my rig, just have a couple of questions?

1. Anyone shooting with about a 13lb rig on this head? I see the preset counter balance settings include 11.5lbs and 16.5lbs? I take it the 16.5lb setting might actually work for a 13lb set up?
2. Overall, can you get a decently smooth pan and tilt when shooting with say, the 70-200 2.8 IS II Canon at 200mm? I won't need to shoot anything longer focal length for this assignment but will spend a lot of time with this lens on my C100.

I bought the Manfrotto 500 last year with a lighter rig for some shoots in Africa and it was pretty so so, barely usable, so my hope is by stepping up a few levels, I will be able to at least get a few decent panning shots on long lens, that the head will hold up to two solid weeks of run and gun, being rained on, etc. I would really much rather bring my Sachtler but there is no way I can take the weight and size when my camera backpack will be over packed already. The 504 is half the weight, although not a lot smaller but I have no problem throwing a Manfrotto into my checked luggage so it is looking like it might do the trick for a cheapo travel head. I will be using it on my Miller Solo DV 75mm carbon sticks.

Manfrottos seem ok until you try to start/stop pans zoomed in.

Yeah, I know. I have about half a dozen of them laying around here, old 501, new 701, new 500AH. They are all junk but I need something cheap for flying and this time I need something that can hold a 13lb rig with counterbalance and fit into my 75mm bowl. Manfrottos are not good but Benros seem worse. I've been at this long enough where I know the tricks to get usable moves out of cheap heads. Not good moves, but usable moves.

Don't know how many people realize this is sitting in the vaults.


Review: Manfrotto 504HD/ 546GBK Video Support System (http://www.dvinfo.net/article/production/camsupport/review-manfrotto-504hd-546gbk-video-support-system.html)

The review reminded me of a few things:

1. I'm not sure what the internal bag of the case is used for but I'm always annoyed when the tripod legs get snagged on it when I'm in a rush packing and unpacking.

2. The dam tripod arm is too short and if you don't really tighten it, it has play in it.

3. Specific to mvh500 top load head often jams because the locking spring doesn't fully retract. I'm often caught struggling at crucial moments trying to get the plate to snap in.

I think a "good lightweight fluid head" a bit of an oxymoron. Not only do I have, like Dan Brockett, various Manfrotto heads and bits lying around doing nothing, I also have heads by Gitzo and Libec (their "Allex" a shocker).

Latest addition to the "buyer's regret" list is a Benro S7. First one returned and distributor agreed it was faulty.
Replacement not much better, pan so so (sort of) but tilt another "all or nothing". Okay with my FZ2000, bloody useless with my GH4/Sigma 150-600 outfit.

Trouble seems to be that the manufacturers go on about maximum load, without also stating that this is when pan and tilt locked hard. Don't expect to pan and tilt with that lot aboard should be warned of.

Looks as if I'm stuck with my old DVS 6B on Gitzo legs which I can fit into a suitcase and use set up over a car seat (for videoing birds) or my equally old Vision 6 outfit which too much for a suitcase.

One slight ray of sunshine is my E-Image cheap and cheerful Chinese made head. Goes under a variety of names I think. Grease rather than fluid but not as awful as eg my 502AH.

Best of luck,

Ron

I should have added that I use the Benro S7and the E-Image heads as flat based on a Gitzo levelling pod which makes for a portable outfit.


Ron

Hi Chris:

I read your review, wow, the 504HD looks like a really lousy piece of gear. I am still in a dilemma and it's all about weight and air travel. I would so much like to just bring my Sachtler head, it's really what I need but fear of losing it or having it stolen in transit are real. I can reduce my camera rig weight down a few pounds by NOT bringing the VCT 14 plate and just attaching the tripod plate to the Zacuto VCT Pro baseplate. So that gets my rig down closer to 11lbs but still the same issue. I wish I could go really light and minimalist but I think this client will want to shoot a lot of handheld all over the area we will be in so I am loath to not bring a setup that is easily shoulder mountable. That means adding the VCT Pro plate, Graticle, Axis Mini, etc. and all of that kit just weighs what it weighs, even on a small and lightweight rig like the C100. An alternative might be to ask the client if I can just shoot monopod more than shoulder mounted. It's a different way of shooting, but if I didn't have to bring all of the Zacuto Recoil rig, then I could just bring my crappy Manfrotto 500 head and smaller Bogen MdVE legs?

Are there any other $300.00 to $500.00 usable heads that can support 11lbs with decent counterbalance that are 75mm ball? Not even considering Benro, I think they are worse than Manfrotto.

I think a "good lightweight fluid head" a bit of an oxymoron. Not only do I have, like Dan Brockett, various Manfrotto heads and bits lying around doing nothing, I also have heads by Gitzo and Libec (their "Allex" a shocker).

Latest addition to the "buyer's regret" list is a Benro S7. First one returned and distributor agreed it was faulty.
Replacement not much better, pan so so (sort of) but tilt another "all or nothing". Okay with my FZ2000, bloody useless with my GH4/Sigma 150-600 outfit.

Trouble seems to be that the manufacturers go on about maximum load, without also stating that this is when pan and tilt locked hard. Don't expect to pan and tilt with that lot aboard should be warned of.

Looks as if I'm stuck with my old DVS 6B on Gitzo legs which I can fit into a suitcase and use set up over a car seat (for videoing birds) or my equally old Vision 6 outfit which too much for a suitcase.

One slight ray of sunshine is my E-Image cheap and cheerful Chinese made head. Goes under a variety of names I think. Grease rather than fluid but not as awful as eg my 502AH.

Best of luck,

Ron

Hi Ron:

The E-Image is intriguing. Looking at this one, is this the one you have? The specs actually look decent and it's $50.00 more. I will only use it for travel, so you think this is operationally superior to the Manfrotto 504HD? Seems like it. I may try this one. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1038808-REG/ikan_gh06_tripod_head.html

My E-Image "type" is quite a bit smaller and a lot cheaper than this which looks quite good. I'd try and find a few more reviews if I wished to avoid adding to the tripod head pile.

Ron

The real challenge is, if you go on Amazon and B&H, etc. and read the "reviews" about any cheap heads, about 90% of the time it's an amateur, putting their GH4 or a DSLR on it and remarking how it's the greatest thing ever but that they "have never owned or used another head so I don't have anything to compare it to". It's difficult to find a pro, using a 10-13lb rig on a $400.00 head. By virtue that it is a cheap head, most working pros avoid these like the plague and buy a good head like a Sachtler or O'Connor. It's too bad that most of the quality manufacturers have not filled the mid range niche with lightweight yet high quality, under $1k heads for travel. If Sachtler sold the ACE L head separately (they don't) for around $600.00 to $800.00, I think it would probably fill this niche nicely.

If I didn't already own the Miller Solo DV carbon legs, I would probably just spend the $1,300.00 and buy this https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/898213-REG/Sachtler_1013_System_Ace_L_TT.html but my Miller legs are better, more heavy duty and cost me about $1,000.00 back in the day. I'll probably end up trying the Ikan E-Image 406. I can afford it and it doesn't seem as horrible as the 504 HD Fluid for $50.00 more.

Agree re review on the like of the B&H website. "Butter smooth" re the 502. I'm strictly amateur, GH4 outfits and previously XLH1 and EX3 hence my owning a couple of decent albeit heavy pods.
I take it seriously though.

Tried a Ace L outfit, lent to me by Sachtler. No good, legs or head. Ended up with the latter on my old Gitzo legs but still poor panning partic. with a 500mm lens on my GH3.

Ron

Eureka! I found the solution. It's the Miller Air fluid head. It is part of the Miller Air Carbon Fluid head package that teams it with the Miller Solo DV carbon legs. Problem is, I already own the Miller Solo DV carbon legs and I don't need two sets of them. B&H says they can order the head alone from Miller for me for $643.00. Millers, generally are good stuff, not as good as Sachtler but Sachtler doesn't have a head in this price range, only the entire ACE package line, which personally I don't even feel should have the Sachtler name on them, they are subpar in comparison to the "real" Sachtler stuff.

B&H says they take 7-14 business days to obtain just the head from the Miller distributor in New Jersey, it's non-cancelable and non-returnable so I asked them to see if they could get me one by the end of the month for my shoot in South America. If they can, I am going for it. I would much rather pay $643.00 for something good and usable (maxes out at 11lbs capacity) than a piece of junk 504 for $349.00

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1220912-REG/miller_1042_air_fluid_head.html

The Gear Dads were impressed with it Miller Tripod - Gear Dads (http://www.geardads.com/miller-tripod/) and I read a few other reviews on-line. Not perfect, still a few small issues but leagues better than anything else out there for under $700.00. Good combination of weight capacity, counterbalance and it only weighs 3.1 lbs! Sounds like I found my new travel tripod head, finally.

Hey Dan …. thinking out of the box here. (Uh-oh!) Maybe the solution is not a lighter weight head but a pair of cargo pants. With big pockets. Take everything out of the camera bag that you can: Batteries, the arm for the head, quick-release plate, even the micro SD cards, and stuff them in the pant pockets.

Maybe once past the check-in scales the bag could be reloaded with delicate items.

Might not look executive style but, hey, if it “computes” (gets below their weight limit), what the heck?

Manfrotto 504HD as well as the MV500AH are strictly for lock down interviews. When you need multiple cameras and one of them is locked down, then these heads are fine. C300 with smaller lens without rigs is fine but with a 70-200 it becomes an issue. That is why I am also looking for other tripod heads as I can't drag my OConnor everywhere.

Have a look at this: SIRUI BCH-10 Broadcast Video Head - Sirui USA (http://www.sirui.com/sirui-bch-10-broadcast-video-head.html)

I haven't tried as it is not available in my market yet, but am happy with their other products.

Manfrotto 504HD as well as the MV500AH are strictly for lock down interviews. When you need multiple cameras and one of them is locked down, then these heads are fine. C300 with smaller lens without rigs is fine but with a 70-200 it becomes an issue. That is why I am also looking for other tripod heads as I can't drag my OConnor everywhere.

Have a look at this: SIRUI BCH-10 Broadcast Video Head - Sirui USA (http://www.sirui.com/sirui-bch-10-broadcast-video-head.html)

I haven't tried as it is not available in my market yet, but am happy with their other products.

This looks like an interesting candidate but I have never heard of the brand. I assume it is Chinese? A little research shows their low line VH series tripods do not look very good as far as function. I researched and cannot find a single YouTube or Internet review on the BCH-10. For only $100.00 less than the Miller Air, I wouldn't chance it. Miller is a known commodity, and has been reviewed as an excellent head for the money by multiple reviewers. Who knows? The BCH-10 might be a good value and functionally great, but no Internet user reviews after two years on the market is a red flag to me. Interesting too that B&H website shows all of the BCH line as "No longer available", which means they sold them at one time and no longer sell them. Could mean a lot of things but could be that B&H had too many returns on them, if that the distributor was a PITA to deal with, poor support, etc. Adorama still has them in stock.

Hey Dan …. thinking out of the box here. (Uh-oh!) Maybe the solution is not a lighter weight head but a pair of cargo pants. With big pockets. Take everything out of the camera bag that you can: Batteries, the arm for the head, quick-release plate, even the micro SD cards, and stuff them in the pant pockets.

Maybe once past the check-in scales the bag could be reloaded with delicate items.

Might not look executive style but, hey, if it “computes” (gets below their weight limit), what the heck?

Hi John:

My challenge is getting my one check in roller duffle to 50lbs. That is the bag with the tripod, light stands, batteries, boom pole, boom pole holder and a lot of other misc. gear in it plus I have to have two weeks worth of clothing and toiletries stuffed in there. Only bringing three changes of clothes for two weeks, going to be doing some laundry I think! Backpack contains lenses, two camera bodies, laptop, goes under the seat. Carry on bag contains lights, wireless mic, gimbals, etc. I may end up shuffling things around as you suggest, the exact list is still evolving (am I taking the Go Pros? Do I need more batteries since we are shooting long days run & gun?)

I am really trying to avoid having to check a second bag as then I need the small Rock & Roller cart to carry it all and it just went from barely manageable to bringing quite a lot of gear. For this shoot, we really need to be as mobile as possible. Have a small concert to shoot, 2 days of sit down interviews, 3-4 days of shooting on the streets with talent walk and talks, hopping on a helicopter to fly to an island, it's pretty challenging as far as what I will need to carry it all off.

Hey Dan,

That is quite a run n gun shoot so I understand you space/weight concerns. I will be interested to see if the Miller works out for you. My worry is that it won't because you will be maxing it out at the edges of the load limit. Did you say your rig is 11.5 lbs? The Miller is rated for 11 lbs max. I have always found tripod and head load ranges to be greatly exaggerated. Just because it says you can go to 11 lbs does not mean you should. I like to run heads rated for more than I shoot with so I stay in the middle or low side of the ratings. Pans and tilts work better for me that way.

I know this is a compromise situation and you know what your doing, I hope it works out. We are all trying to save weight with the airlines being such a PIA these days.

Please let us know what you think of the Miller after the gig.

Kind Regards,

Steve

This project has taken a new direction, going from what was going to be a lot of handheld work which was going to require a more heavy Zacuto Recoil V2 rig, into we are now contemplating shooting large amount of it on a gimbal, probably the Letus Helix Jr.

So my weight class for my A camera just went way down because I will not need the VCT Baseplate, Graticle, etc. that I was planning on taking. If I do buy the Recoil Rig in the future, my Sachtler DV6 SB can handle that easily when I am shooting at home. The rig will probably be closer to 7-8 pounds now, depending lens used. The Miller may be the hot ticket for this shoot. I just found a good deal on a slightly used one.

Just received the Miller Air Alloy. New these sell for about $1,000.00, I scored this one lightly used from Adorama for $699.00, other than a little wear on the camera plate, it looks unused. It feels great, not quite as good as my Sachtler but leagues better than any of the Manfrotto/Benro stuff. Two stage counterbalance for 4.4lbs and 11lbs. The pan handle is large and beefy, all of the controls are very smooth. The controls function with actual clutches internally, not screw pressure like the cheap heads use. The legs are functionally identical to my Solo DV Carbon legs I have used all over the world for about a decade.

Best of all, NO spreader! I hate spreaders, always have and always will. Sure they add a little torsional rigidity but the trade off is futzing with, messing with and cussing at the spreaders, wasting time unfolding and folding them back up. The only spreaders I have ever used that I kind of tolerated were the ones on our Sachtler Video 18 CF legs but even those were a PITA much of the time for my shooting style. In documentary and BTS shooting, anything that holds you up can make you miss pivotal shots for your project. The actual bowl and upper leg design on these legs is pretty beefy and other than at full extension, in heavy wind, with an overloaded head, I have not experienced any excessive twisting or flexing with these legs. This alloy version is about a pound heavier than my carbon version and are rated at 44lbs capacity.

If you are in the market for an inexpensive tripod head and legs that is actually capable of professional level moves, I highly recommend the Miller Air Carbon or Alloy. I really recommend to every pro that they spend $7k to $20k and just buy an O'Connor and be done with buying tripods for their entire career and not buy cheap tripods ;-) Hindsight is 20/20 but if I could do it all over again, I would have bought an O'Connor 20 years ago and would still be using it. I say this to people who make their living and pay their bills shooting video, not the casual hobbyists. But if you can't buy the best, and didn't allocate the proper budget in your entire video gear budget for support or if you are paranoid the airlines will lose your tripod (they have lost two of my cheap ones over the past five years) this Miller is good enough to make professional images but cheap enough that it's not going to sting too tbadly if the airlines lose it.

Wonder what this is all about:

Nitrotech on Vimeo

Came out today, looks interesting but it's still a cheap Manfrotto.

It's obviously made with cameras like the FS7 in mind. I also find it interesting that they're introducing the continuous counterbalance a la Vinten. I suppose since it's all Vitec group owned brands, the differentiators between brands and models is beginning to shrink.

A good cameraman can get the shot regardless.

Just have watched this:

Praxis-Test: Manfrotto Nitrotech 8 - der ultimative Video-Fluid-Neigekopf? - YouTube

As I see, there are kickbacks in pans.

A good cameraman can get the shot regardless.

This +111111111111

Steve

To be fair, a good cameraman always gets the shot but if you are trying to capture a smooth diagonal pan on a 100-400 lens at 382mm on a cheapo Manfrotto head, that shot is going to be crappy. I got the shot. But it was crappy because of the mechanical limitations of the tripod head.

Just have watched this:

Praxis-Test: Manfrotto Nitrotech 8 - der ultimative Video-Fluid-Neigekopf? - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxxv0SeOT2o)

As I see, there are kickbacks in pans.

Wow, that pan at 4:39 is terrible. Not surprised.

I would try one of those new Nitro heads in a heartbeat. In that video it is hard to say if the rough pan is the head or the operator. Especially when the guy is doing a review video on it and he does not have enough sense to turn off image stabilization. I believe that is where the back and forth movement is coming from at the end of the pans and other places, not the head. Of course I don't know what he is saying so maybe he explains something I don't understand.

Steve

Dan - Does the Miller video head accommodate the Manfrotto 501 style QR plates? I use these plates on a bunch of my gear (sliders, jib/crane, monopod, 2 tripods), so being able to use them with the Miller would be a HUGE advantage over buying more QR plates.

Just received the Miller Air Alloy. New these sell for about $1,000.00, I scored this one lightly used from Adorama for $699.00, other than a little wear on the camera plate, it looks unused. It feels great, not quite as good as my Sachtler but leagues better than any of the Manfrotto/Benro stuff. Two stage counterbalance for 4.4lbs and 11lbs. The pan handle is large and beefy, all of the controls are very smooth. The controls function with actual clutches internally, not screw pressure like the cheap heads use. The legs are functionally identical to my Solo DV Carbon legs I have used all over the world for about a decade.

Best of all, NO spreader! I hate spreaders, always have and always will. Sure they add a little torsional rigidity but the trade off is futzing with, messing with and cussing at the spreaders, wasting time unfolding and folding them back up. The only spreaders I have ever used that I kind of tolerated were the ones on our Sachtler Video 18 CF legs but even those were a PITA much of the time for my shooting style. In documentary and BTS shooting, anything that holds you up can make you miss pivotal shots for your project. The actual bowl and upper leg design on these legs is pretty beefy and other than at full extension, in heavy wind, with an overloaded head, I have not experienced any excessive twisting or flexing with these legs. This alloy version is about a pound heavier than my carbon version and are rated at 44lbs capacity.

If you are in the market for an inexpensive tripod head and legs that is actually capable of professional level moves, I highly recommend the Miller Air Carbon or Alloy. I really recommend to every pro that they spend $7k to $20k and just buy an O'Connor and be done with buying tripods for their entire career and not buy cheap tripods ;-) Hindsight is 20/20 but if I could do it all over again, I would have bought an O'Connor 20 years ago and would still be using it. I say this to people who make their living and pay their bills shooting video, not the casual hobbyists. But if you can't buy the best, and didn't allocate the proper budget in your entire video gear budget for support or if you are paranoid the airlines will lose your tripod (they have lost two of my cheap ones over the past five years) this Miller is good enough to make professional images but cheap enough that it's not going to sting too tbadly if the airlines lose it.

Manfrottos seem ok until you try to start/stop pans zoomed in. I have D55 legs with a 128RC head which works quite fine for me. The legs are solid and the head is smooth---and not heavy at all.

I have a 504hd and like it a lot. I use it with cameras such as sony fs700r and panasonic ux-180 which has a long zoom. I have been happy with it for all uses. Bear in mind I've never owed a really expensive tripod though.