Wow. No more reason to buy zoom, tascam, etc.

Sound Devices Launches New MixPre Series at DV Info Net (http://www.dvinfo.net/news/sound-devices-launches-new-mixpre-series.html)

And the output is on a....

????? Connector?
????? @ what Level?
????? Balanced or Unbalanced?

You're talking about the stereo 3.5mm output? I think we can assume that's unbalanced. I'm guessing you can change the level from line to mic with a software setting. I'm curious about the details too. I don't think they can properly call this a real mixer without balanced outputs, so it definitely has it's limitations. To me this is still a great value for it's target market though.

Yes, the 3.5mm output is unbalanced stereo (2 channel) and the output level is adjustable up to a maximum of +7.8 dBu. You can also select any of the input channels (pre or post fader) or the final mix to send to each of the 3.5mm outputs (main and headphone).

The user guides for these new models are now available as well:
https://www.sounddevices.com/download/guides/MixPre3-UG_en.pdf
https://www.sounddevices.com/download/guides/MixPre6-UG_en.pdf

Thanks for finding that. Very cool. You can synch timecode from an HDMI source. Can their other recorders do that? That's a game changer in the DSLR world.

I'm not a fan of unbalanced audio but I have to say I have been using a 3.5mm to XLR connection for the output of my Røde Wireless Lavalieres and it's fine, especially for a 6" run. I could plug the SD's output into the same adapter on my C100/C300 and it would work great. Target market is obviously DSLR and Mirrorless users, smart move by SD, they'll sell a ton of these.

Ya, the 3.5mm out isn't optimal for me. But as others are saying, for a short run to a camera (or for a short run to a transmitter) to basically send scratch tracks to camera, it should be fine.

Heck, for years I used the 3.5mm out on my Sound Devices 302 to feed line-level to a little Marantz PMD620 recorder for transcription MP3s (had a wireless hop to send audio to camera; this was for newsmag gigs). Once on a fly-in gig, the camera we rented had screwed audio. So I switched the PMD620 from MP3 to raw 24-bit WAV... The audio sounded really good...

Point of that anecdote: unbalanced 3.5mm out doesn't have to kill audio. And if you're planning to use the MixPre tracks as your masters, it's probably fine.

Or so it seems to me without having touched a MixPre-3 or MixPre-6.

It also seems in the interest of bringing down the cost to compete with Zoom, they have not included a gain or trim function in addition to the channel faders. At least not with a dedicated knob. Perhaps that is in a menu? Or perhaps it is essentially preset like the old days with the Shure FP33. Time Code In is great, but having a Time Code generator would be even more useful. That is what I think currently sets the Zoom F4 and F8 apart. It is interesting to see SD introduce products at this price point, though.

How does the prefader multitrack recording work exactly? Isn't the whole point of a mixer to manage the gain settings?

It looks like the preamp gain for each of the microphone inputs is set through the touch screen menu system. The physical knobs on the front are the faders that allow for adjusting the relative levels of the different channels in the final mix.

If you set the unit to record prefader tracks for each channel, the levels of these tracks would not be affected by any changes to the fader knobs, however, these tracks would still be affected by the gain settings for each channel set in the menu. The levels of the mix tracks would be affected both by the gain and the fader settings.

There's a little more about how gain works in the MixPre-6 on page 20 of the User Guide:
http://cdn.sounddevices.com/download/guides/MixPre6-UG_en.pdf

It seems that the fader knobs are also buttons, so by pressing in the fader knob it will bring up the settings menu for that channel (to set the gain, pan, phantom power, etc.).

It would be nice if there was a more direct shortcut for adjusting the preamp gain via the fader knobs, perhaps pressing the star button when turning the knob could adjust the gain, otherwise the knob would operate as a fader. The manual mentions that the star button above the faders can be used for shortcuts, but doesn't describe how exactly.

This may be a deal killer for me. I don't understand why they would create a recorder that won't let you adjust the levels on the fly.

It does allow you to adjust the fader level for each channel on the fly, just not the pre-amp gain. If you set the unit to record post fader audio for each channel (rather than pre-fader), then these level adjustments will be included in the individual channel tracks (in addition to the mix track).

A lot of times you can just set the pre-amp gain for each channel (based on the expected volume of that audio source) before you start recording and then trust the limiters to handle anything unexpectedly loud. Then you'd just need to adjust the fader levels on the fly during recording to achieve the desired mix.

It seems like Sound Devices was trying to simplify the operation of this unit compared to their more professionally oriented mixers like the 633 or 688. And I'm sure not having dedicated gain knobs was one way to simplify (and reduce the overall cost) while allowing all the physical controls fit in a compact form factor. And probably a decent chunk of the target market for these mixer/recorders won't miss these extra set of knobs (and could even be confused by why there were two knobs per channel).

I also wouldn't be surprised if Sound Devices adds an option to switch the channel knobs to control the gain rather than fader levels. The Zoom F4 and F8 (which may be the closest competitors to the new Mix Pre units), also lack dedicated gain knobs, but have an option to switch the channel level knobs from gain to fader. Even the Zaxcom Maxx and Nomad mixer/recorders (which are clearly geared toward the professional sound market in terms of price and features) lack dedicated gain knobs for each channel.

So it seems to be something of a trend.

"If you set the unit to record post fader audio for each channel (rather than pre-fader), then these level adjustments will be included in the individual channel tracks (in addition to the mix track)."

Are you sure this is possible? I can't find that ability anywhere in the user guide.

I don't see the ability to set the 3-channel portion of the recorder to post-fader either, but I'm willing to suffer through it given the comparatively crude devices I'm using now.
Essentially it's what I'm using two recorders to accomplish currently, a two-channel mix on one machine and iso tracks on a second recorder if I need to fix something later (including compensating for drift on long-form recordings between the two separate machines).

This looks really amazing and it will be on my list for sure in 2018.

This may be a deal killer for me. I don't understand why they would create a recorder that won't let you adjust the levels on the fly.

No deal breaker. Think of the menu gain setting as the gross level adjustment, line/mic, very common. The faders are the fine level adjustments, you set them on the fly. Nothing unusual here.

Steve

This seems to be what Dave Del Vecchio is saying, but unless the manual is very poorly written it's not what sound devices literature says. It clearly says that the faders have no bearing on the levels of the ISO tracks. The faders only affect the stereo mixdown tracks.

This is what Paul Isaacs (Sound Devices VP of Marketing and Product Design) said about this in a another forum:

"You can use channel knobs to adjust your ISO levels. To do this, you would select Custom mode and set Record to Advanced and leave Channel set to Basic. When Channel is set to Basic, ISO levels are post channel knob and when Record is set to Advanced, ISOs can be armed."

The manual is a little confusing. But if I understand correctly, there is a system-wide mode setting for the unit. The system-wide mode options are Basic, Advanced, and Custom. If you choose Custom for the system-wide mode, you can individually change the mode of the different sections of the menu (Channel, Record, etc.)

So if you set the system-wide mode to Custom, you can set the mode of the Channel section to Basic or Advanced. In Channel -> Basic mode, the channel knobs control the levels of the different channels directly, in Channel -> Advanced mode, you can set the gain for each channel through the menu, and the channel knobs operate as faders.

In Record -> Basic mode, only a two-channel L/R audio mix is recorded. In Record -> Advanced you can record a two channel audio mix + each individual channel. The channel level that is recorded then depends on the Channel mode. Since in Channel mode -> Basic, the knobs directly control the levels (and you can't separately set the pre-amp gain and fader level), the channel knobs affect the level of the recorded output. But in Channel mode -> Advanced, you can set the gain separately from the fader level, so the per channel recording is pre-fader, and you can adjust the gain to change the level of the recorded ISO tracks.

At least this is my understanding based on reading the manual and trying to reconcile it with Paul Isaac's comment.

Thank you for the details David. Making devices that are low end consumer friendly is a departure for SD. To add to what you said, I read the Basic mode is simply a full auto mode for those that don't know how to or don't want to control their own settings. You can use basic to turn on and go. Advanced mode is user control. Even with a SD brand on it I can't imagine recording audio in full auto. But I have worked with video guys that would not know how to do it properly with full manual controls. That always blows my mind. But that is a soap box I am not going to get on in this thread ;-)

Kind Regards,

Steve

Thank you for the details David. Making devices that are low end consumer friendly is a departure for SD...
Well, if a consumer doesn't know sound they'll have trouble getting all the goodness even a ZOOM H4n can provide.

Can SD span both worlds? Will the new mixer/recorders truly be consumer-friendly in basic mode, and acceptable to pros in advanced modes?

I've used the MixPre-D quite a bit. What a versatile little mixer for all kinds of swiss-army knife applications, not least of which is for a boom op to wear. What a pleasant blend of analog qualities with digital controls!

I really hope the new mixer/recorders go much further with equal pro quality and utility. However, at $900 street price for the MixPre-6 is it priced for the consumer market?

Very awesome Dave. Thanks for digging that up. I was just about to call SoundDevices to get the final word on this. I'm glad to hear this information. Definitely going to save up my pennies for a Mix-Pre-6. I agree with Seth that the price may be a hard sell for the consumer market, but that's because they may not appreciate the level of technology they are getting for a dirt cheap price.

I got some hands on time with these at NAB, and I'll be getting a demo unit soon to check out and make a demo video with.

The mic/line selection for the inputs is menu selectable. It has two operating modes; basic and advanced (I'm not sure if those are the SD words for them).

Compared to something like a 633, there are limitations, but this is targeting a very specific market, and I think these units do the job well. People are excited about it, as the pre-orders I'm getting are showing. It's a SD device, so the name alone carries a lot of weight with it. We already know it's going to sound good, and it's a great way for SD to access the lower cost market and have customers move up to their more capable machines later on should people need to do that.

I just wrote an article for a magazine/website and my editor was asking if I had heard about a mixer or audio device that could handle streaming audio for Facebook/YouTube Live? Yep, I think SD is going to sell a ton of these recorders, they look amazing for a certain audience and need.