Oh ok. How does the lens fight the pan? Is that why in the footage if i pan right, it jerks left sometimes, And vice versa?

Yes, what you describe is exactly what I mean by "fighting the pan."

Your particular lens was designed only as a still-photo lens. It was never intended for video. When you have the lens on a tripod with the IS switched on, it doesn't know that your panning movement is intentional. So it fights that motion, resulting in the little "hiccups" you're getting at the end of a pan.

Therefore you need to turn IS *off* when shooting video with that lens from a tripod.

Newer, better lenses will accommodate tripod shooting with a special mode designed to work with intentional panning movements. Some lenses have multiple IS modes. Yours does not, however.

I won't lie, I honestly that was also the deal with camcorders where the IS is built in. I had always heard the rule as "tripod = no IS" (at least if you're gonna be panning). Maybe that's older cams or I'm dumb or something.

Yes, what you describe is exactly what I mean by "fighting the pan."

Your particular lens was designed only as a still-photo lens. It was never intended for video. When you have the lens on a tripod with the IS switched on, it doesn't know that your panning movement is intentional. So it fights that motion, resulting in the little "hiccups" you're getting at the end of a pan.

Therefore you need to turn IS *off* when shooting video with that lens from a tripod.

Newer, better lenses will accommodate tripod shooting with a special mode designed to work with intentional panning movements. Some lenses have multiple IS modes. Yours does not, however.

Oh okay, thanks, I thought it was just IS cameras that did that, I didn't know the lens could fight off the movement! Thank you very much for pointing that out.

What if for when I am using a gimbal with a wider lens for wide shots? Should I have IS switched on or off for that?

I won't lie, I honestly that was also the deal with camcorders where the IS is built in. I had always heard the rule as "tripod = no IS" (at least if you're gonna be panning). Maybe that's older cams or I'm dumb or something.

Josh, I thought that also until I tried the GH5 e-stabilization on a tripod at extreme telephoto. It took out the jiggles of using an inferior tripod to track subjects making the footage usable. All of this was shot on a tripod with e-stabilization on. Not my normal subject matter which is usually locked down with minimal or no camera movement.

Ocoee Whitewater - YouTube

Is e-stabilization and IS the same thing?

It seems to me that every time I find out about something electronic in the lens, it's a disavantage. I find out that the lens is fly-by-wire focus, and now I find out that IS has been fighting my panning.

Are there any DSLR lenses out therefore, that are telephoto, have no electronic components and are all manual mechanical? Would that be better and less complications?

Is the stabilization in the lens or body in that case?

What if for when I am using a gimbal with a wider lens for wide shots? Should I have IS switched on or off for that?

Now that's a good question. My guess is to have it on, but you should experiment with it both ways, find out what's best, and report back here to let us know.

I won't lie, I honestly that was also the deal with camcorders where the IS is built in. I had always heard the rule as "tripod = no IS" (at least if you're gonna be panning). Maybe that's older cams or I'm dumb or something.

Nah, that was indeed the rule back in the day, but newer camcorders and some newer lenses have multiple IS modes, often incorporating a specific special IS mode to use when panning from a tripod. Modern times... go figure.

welp that explains it...I don't shoot much and when I do it's almost always with a C100 with the typical still lenses or an EX1.

Mark's GH5 has e-stab. in the camera body (I think).

OIS (optical) is a lens mechanism. It's found in lenses and on camera bodies that have an integrated lens built in.

EIS (electronic) is a function of the image sensor in a camera body. Not as effective as OIS in a lens.

There's also IBIS, in-body image stabilization, on some newer camera bodies. I understand it's very good. Usually when you have IBIS, there's most often an included mode specifically for using with a tripod.

Oh okay, interesting. Back when I got the lens, I was advised to keep IS on all the time for video. Didn't know for a tripod that the lens would try to fight it, which explains some of the jerks in the pans and tilts, but I thought that was just me maybe.

If I turn with a gimbal in the future though, will lens IS try to fight the turns?

Yep probably. Ryan, stop taking people's advice as gospel. If a product has a switch, for goodness sake experiment. I'm truly amazed you keep discovering things. A lens you've had for ages you suddenly find a spot, and suddenly find problems with the stabiliser and suddenly discover a switch you have never used, and worst of all, you discover t image is soft at maximum focal length. All this things come as a surprise. This is like discovering your car doesn't turn right, because everyone told you to always turn left, and when you first ignore the advice you discover a problem. Do you never experiment, play, fiddle, explore, examine, evaluate, compensate or modify? It's like you have a big arsenal of produce you have bought, but never use. The black spot for instance. Surely you shot at some point the sky? Or something evenly toned? I can't believe huge problem now was never noticed before? You post here and on other forums but always seem to have problems and not once have I ever seen you help other people with advice? Considering you are about to spend money on your feature, surely by now you must have picked up some skills you could assist others with. If we counted the time you have said "I have been told" it would be hundred. Do you never follow up the advice with "why"? So much of the advice you've been given you take as Gospel. Never questioning it till its proven as wrong, weird or plain crazy advice. We're urging you to get familiar and confident with what gear you have, but I get the impression that you pick up an item go through your mental check lis and then use it, and then spot the subject has gone, the sound doesn't work, the subject is jumping up and down, or the batteries are flat. How did you never spot the lens problem? It's so frustrating to solve one problem for you then you report yet another, and another.

I'm not saying this is the case with Ryan, but on another forum the person asking endless questions without seeming to learn anything turned out to be a troll.

Many of the basic questions being asked can be answered by a quick google search and in more detail than is possible in a brief forum message,

I'm not saying this is the case with Ryan, but on another forum the person asking endless questions without seeming to learn anything turned out to be a troll.

I spent the better part of an afternoon awhile back (when I should have been doing other things) researching his prolific posting history on a wide variety of other forum sites, and eventually came to the conclusion that he doesn't seem to be purposefully trolling us.

I can't describe exactly how I made that determination, but I've been at this sort of thing since 1998 when I helped manage the Canopus forum.

If anyone here ever gets worn out by a particular member then I strongly suggest going to https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/profile.php?do=ignorelist (that's at the top left corner of any page, under Controls > Edit Ignore List) for a relatively simple and painless solution.

Hope this helps,

Oh boy. Feel free to delete this if its too far but I am pretty sure he’s not a troll (he’s posted work for one thing whuxh would be a lot of trouble to go to for lulz), but is instead a youngish fella with aspergers or something like it that deeply affects the way he thinks including decision-making and potentially even reasoning out the idea of testing etc. or researching the answers, let alone being able to parse good advice from BS.

I assumed that Chris would've put a stop to Ryan's membership if he was trolling, since there was the name change in the recent past, so he'd been working in the background. Also, as mentioned, he had posted some work.

There are a wide range of people who come onto forums and they learn in differing ways.This can involve rolling with how they work things out.

Oh sorry, if I came off that way, I didn't mean to come off as trolling, I certainly do not intend to be.

The lens is fairly new to me, only had it for a few months, and in the last few months I've been busy working on other people's projects in my time outside of work, so I haven't played around with it as much, since I got it.

I didn't notice the lens trying to fight me on movement until this project cause the animals were moving unpredictably, where as before when I practiced with it, I shot some friends and the movement was all planned, so I didn't notice anyone possibly problems then. The black spot in the lens only showed up last weekend, so I didn't notice it before then either, and it's not in any prior footage.

But on my previous projects, I always got someone else to do the shooting, so I didn't concentrate as much on the camera and lens technology and more so, directing. I can concentrate on it more.

Some compact cameras with lenses that telescope in and out can suck in dust etc, although it tends land on the sensor, rather than inside the lens.

If you're planing to shoot wildlife a really good tripod is essential for the telephoto lens work. I don't expect you to go this extreme, but the high end wildlife camera people can be seen using Ronford 150mm bowl tripods when they're filming. Medium Duty - Ronford Baker (http://www.ronfordbaker.co.uk/products/tripods/medium-duty/)

Oh boy. Feel free to delete this if its too far but I am pretty sure he’s not a troll (he’s posted work for one thing whuxh would be a lot of trouble to go to for lulz), but is instead a youngish fella with aspergers or something like it that deeply affects the way he thinks including decision-making and potentially even reasoning out the idea of testing etc. or researching the answers, let alone being able to parse good advice from BS.
This.
I’ve said this before to keep my sanity I try not to get deeply involved in his problems or offer him advice. The other thing as I understand it he has no income and no budget. I get the feeling his parents must occasionally buy equipment. This isn’t a criticism but it’s a waste of time recommending equipment he can’t afford. I think it’s a bit like going into a Ferrari dealership and taking up countless hours of salesman time all the while not having any means to actually purchase such a car.

But I agree in the past I thought he was a troll because the behavior is similar but I’d agree he isn’t but the end result is similar.

I have to restrain my natural instincts to help someone because it seems he rarely takes any advice he is given and the endless difficult situations he presents with no easy solution is exhausting to think about.

Oh i have an income what makes anyone think i don't? I just wanted to save on equipment while budgeting for other things as well in projects.

Oh i have an income what makes anyone think i don't? I just wanted to save on equipment while budgeting for other things as well in projects.
I can’t remember you ever discussing a paying gig. Paid professionals will simply buy/rent the equipment that is needed for a job. So simply buy what you need.

It’s not that I care to know your finances but the starting point for any equipment decision is what’s your budget.

Regarding this spot, I assume you've checked it's not there with your other lens?

Regarding this spot, I assume you've checked it's not there with your other lens?
He verified it’s in the lens. It’s a used bad kit lens that’s worth practically nothing and when you throw in it has an internal dust spot it’s virtually worthless. No body would want to buy it and it’s not worth repairing.

The rental stores are often booked up in advance though and if shoot dates change i feel i need the equipment ready to go hence why i wanted a telephoto lens for future projects cause the DPs i know, don't have them.

He verified it’s in the lens..

So I notice going back again to the first post.

Given the nature of the offending lens, it sounds like you'll have to work out your budget and decide which lenses fall within that and make a decision on buying one. However, I don't think we want to go through discussions on auto focus v manual focus and varifocal v parfocal again.

Well it depends. Someone said I should buy a video camera with a permanently built on lens because since I could use a new camera soon anyway, it would save money to buy a camera with a telephoto lens build onto a compared to buy OnePlus a separate telephoto lens. Are there any disadvantages to a video camera with just one telephoto lens built on though?

First one that comes to mind is a video camera like that probably wont have the shallow depth of field look all the filmmakers love.

First one that comes to mind is a video camera like that probably wont have the shallow depth of field look all the filmmakers love.
I think what someone was suggesting you could buy a decent eng semi-pro camera for less than a professional superzoom lens. Prosumer camcorders typically have a 24-600mm built in lens and would work well for wildlife shooting in bright conditions where you don’t want a super shallow dof either. For versatility you can’t beat a camcorder: run gun, interviews, event work, etc. The quickly becoming standard is 1” sensor, isn’t going give you that cinema style shallow dof, but no camera can do everything.

I am by no means knocking the pro super telephoto lenses but no one in their right mind is buying them and offering their services for free. It also wouldn’t make sense using such a lens on a out dated consumer dslr.

Yeah that was another thing I didn't like about camcorders either, but it seems that lately some videocameras have the built in zoom lens, but have larger sensors now for a shallow DOF. Is there any with a APS-C size sensor for example with a zoom lens that can go up to at least 400mm? Cause APS-C has quite a bit of shallow DOF, if the lens can open wide for it.

You'll find that some camcorders with built in zooms can produce broadcast standard video, which only very few DSLRS can do. With long focal length lenses you get a shallow DOF anyway.

Once you're into large sensor cameras, you won't find long focal length lenses coming as built in zooms, the laws of physics will be working against you. The f 4 25mm to 250mm cine 35mm lens is a large lens, your DSLR would be much smaller than its matte box.

With builtin zooms. you have the issue of not being able to put focus marks on the focus ring. See your thread on the subject.

Note that "24-600mm" is the equivalent focal length, not the actual one on the camcorders.

Before we end up going around in circles, are you planing to buy a new lens for this wildlife film or going to find ways to hide your spot in the clutter of the undergrowth or fix it in post when you notice it?

If you're going to buy one, is it the plan to use it on your drama films?

If you are, I would check out your thread on fly by wire focusing again, to avoid going over old ground again.

Yep I want to buy a new lens to use on drama films as well, not just this one. I might have to use the current lens on the wildlife one, since I am not sure which one to buy.

That's true, about wanting to set focus marks, I would want a telephoto lens that can do that.

I suppose I could get the Tamron 100-400, and forget about the fixed aperture. I understand it's not fly-by-wire and has a mechanical focus, but is that lens sharp enough to look professional, when zoomed all the way?

Quickly looking at a review the Tamron seems OK, the aperture ramping shouldn't be an issue once you've closed down a stop or so. You may find the focus ring moves continuously, although there's a scale inside the window, there's no infinity stop, so how well it repeats its position on the scale would need to be tested. https://www.kenrockwell.com/tamron/100-400mm.htm

Oh okay, are you saying that it has no 'hard stop' or no infinity marking? Cause I looked at some lenses at the store, and the person at the store said it had a hard stop, unless I'm remembering wrong.

As for ramping, yeah the current lens I have now, the aperture ramps at any aperture setting. Here's a test I did at f8:

new aspect ratios - YouTube

But will the Tamron not have aperture ramping at more closed apertures like that, you mean?

A hard stop usually means that focus ring stops at or commonly just after the infinity marking on the scale.

Usually aperture ramping is caused by the outside of the lens being a small a diameter for the longer focal lengths, so it's acting like a stop aperture until it matches the stop being used on the lens' own internal iris, It's like that to keep the lens sizes down, constant aperture lens are larger in order to avoid this happening,

I suspect you wont be able to avoid it with many stills lenses.

Oh ok. Well it was suggested to me before to get a lens like rokinon since they are made for video but does anyone make lenses like that that are telephoto zoom lenses though?

Rokinon only have a mirror lens, which has a fixed aperture, so limited for video. https://www.rokinon.com/lenses/digital-photo-lenses/300mm-f63-dslr

Test the Tamron out at your local shop to see if it works as required for the focus. It may overshoot the infinity mark, which.isn't a problem. It looks OK in this video, but you should test yourself to ensure that the focus ring doesn't go round endlessly.

Tamron 100-400mm f/4.5-6.3 VC USD lens review with samples (Full-frame & APS-C) - YouTube

Your options are limited by your budget, but it looks a possibly, Don't expect this to act as a parfocal zoom, but you're less likely to zoom in shot with these longer focal length.

Okay thanks. I was going to do that as well. However, the store said that my current lens was still under warranty, so they may be able to do something about that black spot on it after all.

I'd still want a lens without a fly-by-wire focus system though, if that is what is needed for competent focus pulling though.

What you need for competent focus pulling is an experienced 1st AC. (http://theblackandblue.com/pulling-focus/)

Yep for sure I want that, and plan to get it. But even an AC will want a mechanical focus though too right?

If they're worth their salt, an AC will be expecting to work with a proper *cinema* lens, such as the Canon Cinema EOS CN-E30-300mm T2.95-3.7 L SP (https://www.dvinfo.net/article/buyers_guides/buyers-guide-canon-cinema-eos-lenses.html#cinezoom) -- which costs $45,000, so you rent it, you don't buy it. But now we're talking in circles again.

Here's the B&H link (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1047005-REG/rokinon_300m_c_reflex_300mm_f_6_3_umc.html/BI/2855/KBID/3801) for the Roki 300mm Reflex (in Canon EF) that was mentioned earlier. $270. You get what you pay for.

Okay thanks. It's just with the rental stores, you have to book in advance weeks or longer and a lot of times shoot dates change, so in the past, I found rental stores to not be the most reliable therefore.

The major rental companies are extremely reliable and are used to production companies wanting kit at extremely short notice. This occurs with commercials and TV productions, when they may only get a couple of days notice in some cases. I've hired kit on the day before a shoot.

If they don't have the kit in their store, they'll often bring it in from either their other branches or contacts in the industry.

They are also used to shoot dates changing.

What you don't want is a focus ring that turns continuously, if the focus ring has a set range with focus markings you can work with it, The Tamron appears to have one that can be engaged with the auto focus, but it doesn't seem to turn continuously. Nearly all new stills lenses will have an auto focus system, but you need to select one that doesn't have a continuously turning focus ring.

A cinema lens would be ideal, but they're not in your budget range if you want to purchase one.

This seems to be going over old ground.

I would get your current lens repaired/replaced under the warranty, then decide on a new lens.

All the lenses that have distance markings on the focus ring tend to be the repeatable ones. Lenses that have a ring and either a display or other means are servo operated, and the ring is just optical coupled to the servo drive, and they can be non-linear and unreliable. If I don't see a mechanical scale that can be read, I'm suspicious.

We can only hope and pray one day Ryan will get his cinema crash zoom lens.

I was speaking to a long standing well respected UK cinematographer, with countless credits about this topic. He no longer owns a camera, or lenses - and has some grip kit he hangs onto. Everything else is hired depending on the project. His attitude is that ever project now needs different things so owning a camera doesn't mean you use it!

You phone up your normal supplier. If they can't help, you phone a fairly small list, and there will always be somebody with what you need on the shelf. He tells me the biggest issue is people, NOT equipment. Finding the people you want when you need them is the biggest problem. Getting a camera of almost any kind delivered next day is easy - and in the US, being larger, surely easier still? Few professionals are now content with just one product for everything.

Ryans movie stuff and deer in the woods scream for totally different equipment. If budget really isn't an issue, I'd be sourcing the ideal kit for the shoot and not trying to find solutions to problems that really should not even exist.

Oh okay, I thought I could use the same camera and lenses for every project, as long as I had versatile equipment. I can try the rental stores, again.

So far I've been making the markings myself with a grease pencil or a DP will do it on his camera, but is that a bad way of doing things? Like how do you know what your markings are going to be, on the lens when you buy it, since the focus marks for the actors, are different for different shoots, unless I'm not understanding?

Paul, I tend to agree unless you do a very specific job all the time you’ll constantly need to buy different equipment to do different jobs properly. Although I’m guilty of violating that rule. I just dropped $1k on led panel lights so I could film a proper interview but a month later I need to buy an led fresnel for a wedding because the panel lights aren’t the right tool for that job. I could have rented the lights but I needed time to learn how to use them and interview date couldn’t be confirmed until a couple of days prior. It be a problem if they weren’t available or if I rented them and the interview got pushed back.

Like you said the ability to know what equipment is needed for a specific situation, how to use it is more important than the actual piece of equipment. In addition too much equipment can complicate, hinder or distract you from a more important aspect of the job.

In this instance Paul is saying a cinema lens is only good as your focus puller. Try to use that lens inappropriately live event with the subjects moving around you’ll end up with useless out focus footage.

So far I've been making the markings myself with a grease pencil or a DP will do it on his camera, but is that a bad way of doing things? Like how do you know what your markings are going to be, on the lens when you buy it, since the focus marks for the actors, are different for different shoots, unless I'm not understanding?

The 1st AC will usually check the focus markings with a tape measure, if they're not accurate they usually wrap tape around the lens barrel and put on their own markings using a sharpie onto the tape.

High end cine lenses are hand calibrated with focus markings at the factory, still lens markings are more a rough position and the scale is small compared to modern cine lenses.

Yeah things like that, is what we've been doing so far, but is that not good enough, and I could really use one with previous markings?

A 1st AC will usually make their own markings in order to ensure they're correct, they may also check them so on a regular basis.