Oh yes, I see what you mean. I can do tests then. When it comes to the F8 field recorder, or any other field recorder, are there any features that can tell you if you are too close or not? For example in cameras, they have features like focus peaking, that highlight what is in focus and what is not in focus, to help with focusing.

But is there anything like that for audio that can tell you if you are too close or too far away from a sound source?

I don't know why you don't think things out when you plan to do these things. Google is your friend and you'll get the answers far faster than in a forum. Here's how the experts do it:

https://www.asoundeffect.com/how-to-record-extremely-loud-things/

Oh okay I thought I was planning it out as best I could but never recorded something this loud before, so it's new territory for me. But I thought I was still planning it out.

Or at least my plan was to set the fader to the middle then turn the gain till the gun shots feel right, and test out different distances.

I don't know why you don't think things out when you plan to do these things. Google is your friend and you'll get the answers far faster than in a forum. Here's how the experts do it:

https://www.asoundeffect.com/how-to-record-extremely-loud-things/
Why are you always taking the fun out of things? We could have spent another day speculating. :-p

I wonder whether anyone in this forum has recorded gunshots. If not, as Brian points out (excellent article by the way, Brian!), Google might be a much better place to start looking. There is a ton of stuff there about gunshot SPL, recording gunshots, gunshot sound effects, etc. That is a much more specific place to look.

If nobody here offers specific advice based on personal experience, then Ryan, if you really want to record your own (rather than use pre-recorded SFX) then I second Brian's suggestion: head on over to Google.

Oh okay thanks I will do that, thanks. As for SPL, is that why a lot of gunshots sound effecst, sound like they are recorded from far away, because the mic needs to be far away to prevent distortion?

I use dynamic mics when recording L O U D sources. Inherently, dynamic mics can handle higher SPLs than condensers. An SM57/58, Sennheiser 421 are popular choices The Shure SM11 dynamic lavaliere is good in limited space areas like engine compartments.

You don't record sound effects by changing distance for SPL reasons, you do it to match the picture. If you are standing next to the shooter, you need to record a close perspective, so you use pads - if you record from a distance your picture needs to show the gun at the same distance.

Did we not do gunshot recording a couple of years back?

Oh if we did, I didn't get to do those recordings back then. But yes, the plan was to get close gunshots, because all of the stock sounds of gunshots I can find online, do not sound close enough, so I want to get close.

I found free gun shot fx that were recorded close and at various distances in online libraries. I'm not sure what you expect these guns to sound like in a recording, the reality can be very different to what you imagine them to sound.

Oh well a lot of them I found sound very 'thin'. I don't know if thin is the right word but it's hard to describe, like there needs to be more bass or something. I can keep looking, but in the past, if I try to put a sound in recorded by different mics, it would sound different so I thought if I were going to use the same mics that I would record the rest of the movie with, then it would sound more similar.

All that extra bass etc is probably added in post with EQ, reverb, compression, etc., to give it "oomph" and fit it into the environment (i.e. gunshot on a city street will echo differently than gunshot in a small room).

A lot of what you hear in a movie gun shot is added in post. On my films more time was spent fiddling with gun shot sounds during the track laying and mixing than any other sound effect.

It will also depend on the quality of your sound system, they sounded a lot more impressive in the mixing suite (on a short we used one used for mixing feature films) and the in the cinema than in the editing room.

If you check that link that i put up about recording loud sounds, you'll find various guns firing in the sound effects tab. You have to pay for them, but the main difference between these and the free ones is that you've got vastly more choice on the shot sounds from each gun.

Oh okay, well even though I could use a library of gunshots, I still thought I should go out and record my own just for more options. As for mic choice I was thinking of using a shot gun mic. I thought about standing about a couple of feet away with the mic, pointed at the chamber area of the rifles.

Not just no, but HELL NO to this idea. A shotgun mic two feet away from a gun is likely to not just distort, but its diaphragm might be permanently damaged by the extreme sound level.

Note also that most of the sound of a gun discharge is emitted at the end of the barrel as the highly compressed gas inside expands into the atmosphere right after the bullet flies out. With higher powered weapons, there is also a brief, higher frequency "crack" sound which is essentially the sonic boom generated by the projectile. You'll get different sounds with microphones at different angles to the rifle. My starting point would probably be between the shooter and the target, but 45° off to one side, and pointed at the barrel of the gun. (That's where the mic goes, but NOT YOU! Long cables are your friend.) Experiment.

When recording gunshots, use a dynamic microphone known to be able to handle high sound pressure levels, and stay at least 10 to 20 feet back from the gun. The directional pattern of the mic doesn't even matter that much since the high intensity of the gunshot will completely overwhelm any noise in the environment. (It might affect the perspective or sense of "air" or reverberation around the effect, though. Experiment.)

From my personal mic locker, I'd probably start with my Electro-Voice RE20. That's a big dynamic microphone that is often used INSIDE of bass drums in recording studios and can handle really impressive SPLs without distortion. Even my RE50 omni might work pretty well. A good shock mount will be helpful to keep the mic body from rattling. I would keep all my condenser mics back in their Pelicans locked in the car while doing this. Experiment.

I used to shoot a hunting and fishing series and have recorded hundreds of gunshots in the past (although ironically, I have never fired a weapon myself). Only ever blew up one microphone, although I think rough handling and water damage may have had more to do with it than gunshot SPLs.

- Greg

I love the idea about experimenting. Most sound recordists in the UK will never have heard the real sound of a gun - any gun, so we're all so accustomed to the sounds we hear on TV and movies. My first perception of gunshots came from cowboy movies and TV shows set in the US Wild West, plus the TV series Thunderbirds, which always seemed to make guns sound like a ricochet sound. The first time I heard a real gun, it was very disappointing. It went bang, and the recording (made with an SM57) sounded so unlike a real gun to my idiot ears, I ditched it and went for a processed sound effect track.

Oh okay thanks. I thought that a condenser mic would work with a gun as long as the gain was turned down very low. I didn't think I should be 10-20 feet away, because I wanted to try to match the close up perspective of the shots I will doing later. But thank you very much for the input.

I meant to add that recorded gunshots, or real live gunshots for that matter, don't sound much at all like what we hear on TV and in the movies (except for big artillery, cannons and such). The real sound is more of a brief "pop" without a lot of low frequency content (although it's definitely loud).

So it's possible that you could do a perfect job of recording an accurate reproduction of a real weapon in the exact same acoustic environment as required in your movie, and the audience still wouldn't buy it because it's so different from what they've heard all their lives in previous films. I certainly encourage you to try it if only for the contacts you'll make and what you might learn from doing it, but in the end, using an existing (but less technically accurate) SFX library recording may actually serve your story and audience better.

Just be prepared.

- Greg

For one gun shot in a film I recall mixing the SFX from the library of a field gun, a pistol and a rifle. I can't remember if we used used that or just the pistol and rifle in the end. Dramatically, this pistol shot needed to make the audience jump and the real thing wouldn't do that, but our final mix did. No one has ever questioned it.

In the same film we had some AK47 shots, they didn't get changed much, that gun has a quite distinctive sound. I can't remember if the sound recordist recorded those, since the weapons were firing blanks, so was an option on the shooting day or if the were from a SFX library.

Oh okay sure. I can use previous recorded shots if that's better than. I just thought since I am going to the shooting range and being allowed to record for free anyway, then why not. But if they do not turn out well, I can always use other recordings if that's best.

The choice is yours, just be aware of safety if placing a mic down range, especially if there are other users. Some gun users can have a relaxed attitude to the matter.

"Hey, look at that nice shiny little target!"

Oh okay thanks. I will do that. Thank for all for all into, everyone!

So no field recorder has the numbers on them though at all? I guess I find that kind of strange, since camera still tell you what ISO or f-stop you are at for example, instead of just not numbering them.

Numbers on audio faders are probably pointless. You NEED to know iris settings to make decisions to do with dof or perhaps to assess when you are close to limits but it in audio apart from perhaps using them to put two at the same level, they don’t really do much and rotary pots are really difficult to read anyway. My Tascam has tiny numbers on a tiny knob so experience says to set gain usually means turning it all the way down and then up to around half. A teeny bit up or down watching an LED change colour is all I need to get it sorted. My Zoom is labelled 1-10 what the numbers mean is unimportant.

He's still talking about numbers on audio faders? He really struggles understand simple concepts. He wants to video by numbers and rules.

My Marshall guitar amp goes to 11..

My Marshall guitar amp goes to 11..
Why not make 10 the top number and make that a little louder?

If you got a Dymo label maker and changed the top number to 12, would that increase the SPL coming out of the amp? ;-) What if you changed the labels to Roman numerals? Would the amp translate the mic input into Italian?

I truly worry about Ryan. With his seeming incomprehension of anything vaguely technical (e.g. numbers on a gain control knob) and inability to assimilate any information we give him, how can he perform any job that's even slightly technical. I can't imagine what it's like.

One of the funniest scenes I can think of

Amp. goes to 11 (This is Spinal Tap) - YouTube

I am coming to the conclusion that Ryan wants to be involved in producing video products really badly, but is ill prepared for any of the production or performance roles. He is only concerned in planning tasks to ridiculous detail but unable to convert any of the planning to anything other than point and shoot with his camera and inappropriate lens that he had years ago and won't ever change.

Most people on this and our forums are sadly equipment sponges. I know I am. If I get a bit of money to spend, I blow it quickly on something I fancy, and now I'm old I've got a warehouse full! Some is clearly junk, some is nostalgic, a small quantity is genuinely useful. I don't think Ryan has ever, in thousands of posts, talked about his new kit purchases. Tripods, heads, editing computers, monitors, lights, mics, booms, accessories. He talks about things I suspect he is given, or borrows which probably explains why he struggles using them. They're not his to practice with.

It was probably easier to use borrowed kit that you haven't used before in the days when you could set gain etc on a pot on the side or bottom of the kit using a screw driver, rather than using software,

Was hoping we could have a coffee over Christmas Brian - but I suspect the likelihood of a production this year is getting less and less. Perhaps we should try Saskatoon instead?

Yes, I heard on the radio news that early August was midnight for the panto season, and the horses will be turning back to mice again..

The trouble is the Opera House have been dark since last panto and have sold a million and a half pounds worth of advance sales - so cancelling will be a very tough business decision. I hope the NI Government do something different. Normal opening capacities won't be decided until November which is far, far too late. Finger firmly crossed.

The Incidence of Covid 19 has been relatively low in NI and they tend to follow the Republic of Ireland to a certain extent. If I was running a panto in Belfast I would be looking at the SSE Arena to allow social spacing. Of course, that doesn't help the Grand Opera House.

In the early 1900's the capacity of the opera house was double what it is today at just over a thousand - that must have been horrible, especially as everyone smoked and many were on pipes!

The Arena pantomimes are pretty well agreed in the industry to be simply hopeless. Many tried video IMAG, so the little looks and asides were visible but they're just not panto. I suspect our American chums have no idea what we're talking about. Sorry folks!

The Belfast SSE Arena is used in a variety of sizes, full, half or theatre.They did a panto there a couple of years ago in theatre mode, it sort of worked, but it was up against the established GOH show. I suspect it needed more investment for it to really work.

What is this! Ryan hasn't asked yet what mixer has pots that go to 11?

Speaking of Spinal Tap, Harry Shearer (who was one of the writers, and played "Derek Smalls" in the cast) is still going strong. He voices several characters of The Simpsons, and produces his own weekly radio show "Le Show" https://harryshearer.com/le-show/

Also speaking of Spinal Tap, I heard Christopher Guest was a jerk.

Also speaking of Spinal Tap, I heard Christopher Guest was a jerk.
I heard that Ellen Degeneres is a bigger jerk.

Yes Ive been reading that too. I wont lie...she had me totally fooled.

Yes Ive been reading that too. I wont lie...she had me totally fooled.
They're actors after all. It's easy to get fooled if they're doing their job well... I'm always suspicious of anyone who's unnaturally nice.

Not only that but I was on a shoot with two of the Houston Texans who used to be kind of celebs (way before JJ), were in a few commercials etc, they mentioned during setup how they were guests on her show and how she was “just as nice as she seems.” Thinking about it though, DUH, they were GUESTS and celebs. A lot easier to be mean to people who depend on you for a livelihood.

Most are nice, some are just shy and private. Others are absolute tossers. One of the nicest people who I didn't expect to be nice (and I'm not sure why) was Jimmy Osmond. We were doing a show and his brothers arrived. I met them at Stage Door, and was on my way up to Jimmy's dressing room when jimmy arrived - saw me carrying one of their cases, and took it off me - saying "you don't need to do that". A genuinely nice fella. He's been ill for a while now, I hope he gets better soon. Some of them would be nice if it wasn't;t for the totally over the top attitude of their management.

An few years back we were doing a show with Hank Marvin, and when nobody was about I was demonstrating to the young crew the footwork the Shadows always did, and frankly, I was messing it badly up when a voice behind me said "would you like me to show them how to do it properly". Oops.

I think I read something about Casper Van Dien, during the filming of Starship troopers, helping the grips move C stands etc. during setups when he wasn't working.

I think the biggest contributing factor is if the person has an inordinate amount of power, money, and fame, any defect in their personality gets magnified because nobody says no to them.

It can go the other way where they're barely known but THINK they're A-listers, with the same result.

I've heard the leading man on a feature film discussing with the sparks on how to prevent a first time producer interfering during the production because he didn't know what he was doing.

Sometimes my job is to be 'nice' to the leading lady, to keep her out of everyone's hair. One TV well known face would hear my voice and shout at the top of her voice "Tea, two sugars, now!" One Sunday she phoned me and said she was feeling lonely, so needed taking out for lunch. I asked where she fancied - "somewhere with no riff riff". As we walked into the posh restaurant she looked at me and said "You did bring money, didn't you?". We also did a TV OB, and I was coat carrier. The floor manager shouted - we're off, coming back to us in 4:30. She'd snap her fingers and say "coat" - I'd put it around her shoulders. The floor manager would say 30 seconds everyone, she snap her fingers and yell coat again, and I'd take it off.

Hey there, everyone, thanks for the advice! I tried applying it as best as I could. I couldn't rent any dynamic mics, because of covid and all, and places were closed, but I used my condenser mics, and tried different distances. Of course I had to keep the gain turned down incredibly low to record the shots, so hopefully they are good. Thanks again!