Hi,

I'm a journaliststudent here in Denmark. After christmas I've got six months till my 1½ year internship. I'm going for one of the big TV-broadcaststations - and that isn't easy!

So I'm gonna start doing some freelance TV in my spare time. Mostly for practice, but it would be nice to sell a few aswell.

Aaanyway... I'm gonna buy a VX2100 - after ALOT of research this is come to be the optimal solution for me. Well a PD170 would be nice, but it's just to darn expensive.

I have acces to alot of XLR equipment, so I'm gonna want a proper XLR-adaptor. After some reading it seems like Beachtek is the way to go? But i read that if connect that, then I won't be able to use the build in mic? That's a huge problem for me. In interview situations I will be using a mic for interviewing and I want the realsound aswell. How do I do that?

Maybe it's just better to buy a proper mic for minijack? I have acces to a microport with minijack I/O, so that'd probably do? Although... won't I miss out on the manual audio controls? And will I still be able to have two seperate auditracks?

Other than that, I'm going to need a tripod and a good light for nightshots. What should I go for?

That was alot of questions. Hope you'll be able to answer them! ;)

Unfortunately, I believe the built-in mike will be disabled as soon as you plug anything into the mini-jack - with or without a Beachtek. So the best solution may be to get a mono microphone to put on the accessory shoe and plug it into one channel of the Beachtek. Or maybe you should look for a used PD-150 instead of the VX-2100?

That might be a possibility. I haven't read much into PD150/170, so the only thing I know is that they have XLR and better manual control? Is the PD150 the pro version og VX2000 and PD170 the pro version of VX2100?

What about the picturequality? And especially the LUX. How does a PD150 perform against af VX2100? And doesn't it use DV-tapes instead of miniDV?

You are absolutely right - PDs are the more pro brothers of VXs. What they basically have more are sound features (XLR, shotgun mic, more audio control via menus) and they also have a few more settings in the menus (nothing major). If talking about picture then PD150 is basically identical to VX2000 and PD170 to VX2100. VX2000-PD150 lux rating is 2 while VX2100-PD170 is 1 so on papers the newer models should perform slightly better. However, I've heard that it's not noticeable in the picture. Additionally, the newer ones should have less grain/noise in low light.

I also considered between VX2100 and PD150, but already 2100 is not very new and VX2000,PD150 were released in 2000 as far as I know. So, they are quite old and have certainly got quite much use by the owners. There are ofocurse good and less used ones also available so you might want to look at them. I believe that picture quality in good light is quite similar.

Both cams use MiniDV tapes, PDs simply record in DVCAM format which means that the tape is moving faster and they say it eliminates possible errors in the footage. 60 min tape will be 40 min in DVCAM mode.

Okay. I don't know really. I deffinately rather have a new one than an used one. But it sounds like the vx2100 is very limited when it comes to sound.

So to me it sounds like the best solution (with the vx2100) is to get the beachtek adaptor. Put the mic for interviewing in channel 1 and a shotgun microfone in the shoe. But then I won't have the possibility of having a photolight connected. Am I right? Is this really the only possibility?

From new the PD170 is 34.000DKK ($5345) and the VX2100 is 19.000DKK ($2987). That's a BIG pricedifference. More than that, only being able to record 40 minutes per tape is gonna annoy me for sure. I don't need that extra professional features - just the XLR I/O and the ability of using two seperate audiochannels.

Any words of wisdom?

Hi Thomas

I've an FX1 but this camera essentially has the same constraints as the 2100. ie. no XLR audio inputs...

I've bolted a Sign Video adapter box (very similar to the Beachtek) to the camera and it works just fine. You get 2 separate XLR jack channels, plus two mini jack inputs...(only two channels but in theory upto 4 mics). If you get a good shotgun mic, I use the Audio Technica 897, you can easily use it in conjuction with a cheap hard wired lav mic. In an interview situation these mics work fine.... as long as the person is not moving too much the sound is excellent mine is an AT35.


Otherwise I've a Senheisser G2 wireless Lav mic set up which is not hugely expensive and gives you the freedom to follow talent around.

I often use the AT897 on a boom and the G2 on the talent... in this set up the fact that you have no onboard mic is irrelevant...

Re: the DVcam part... to my mind even though my camera doesn't have it ... I doubt I would use it... extra minutes per tape is far more use to me than the slight possibility I may get a drop out.. which incidentally I've only ever had very few..(I only shoot SD for the time being)

I saw a tutorial on the DV.com forum where the speaker (a pro video chappy) uses the LP on his cameras and has had very few problems.. giving him 90mins of tape run time, I believe..

I use Sony Premium tapes and they are fine to my mind.


Regards

Gareth

Okay... but you know, being that i'm going to be one man handling it all, a boom is not a very good solution.

I think these to scenarios are going to be my most common:

Camera on tripod. Me with a mic doing an interview. Then what do I do about the real sound?

or...

Camera on shoulder. Wireless mic on talent. Then what do I do about the real sound?

I COULD put a mono mic in the shoe, but then I won't be able to use any photolight.

EDIT: So it's possible to record in DV instead of DVCam on the PD150/170?

Hi Thomas

Been looking around the web
You can get a Beachtek + AT35 + AT897 for 550 euros
a Senheisser G2 wireless lav set will cot you about 570 euros...

a lot less than the prices you quote for the 2 cameras..

Hope this helps

Gareth

With the set up I'm talking about the shotgun can be camera mounted very easily...

Then a wireless lav leaves you free...

I do 90% of my work alone.. so I know what you mean...

by the way your lav mic will pick up background too as its an omni mic..

and yes PD's150/170 will do DV too...

cheers

Gareth

check out the double shoe bracket..here
http://www.b-hague.co.uk/video_accessories.htm
allows you to use light and mic togther..

cheers
G

I have acces to pro XLR audio equipment through my school. So what I'm gonna need is:

Camera
Beachtek XLR adaptor
Double shoe bracket (for using when I wan to use photolight)
Monomic for the shoe

That would get me the same functionality as a PD150/170 right? I get realsound from the monomic in the shoe (connected to the beachtek), I have XLR I/O and I can record two seperate channels.

Sounds like a plan. You only need to decide whether you want the Beachtek model with or without phantom power. At $370 $USD the DXA-8 begins to close the gap between the PD-170 and VX-2100 price enough to make me think twice. The DXA-4 is $170.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?ci=1&sb=ps&pn=1&sq=desc&InitialSearch=yes&O=RootPage.jsp&A=search&Q=*&bhs=t&shs=beachtek&image.x=5&image.y=8

Also consider that the PD-170 includes a mono mike and also includes the Sony Wide Angle Lens. Of course the price structure in your country might tip the scales the other way....

I definately want the one with phantom power - can't use the audio equipment in my school without. But yea with the monomic, the XLR adaptor, the double bracket shoe and that this is gonna be more trouble I'm starting to reconsider the PD150.

Someone suggested me Canon XM2 though. Said it had XLR, but it looks like it's an accesory? And I read that the camera's build in mic records the sound from the machinery. If that's so - I deffinately DON'T want to get it. I know there's a canon forum, but my mind is still on a Sony so I'm keeping it in here.

Once you get close to the 170 in price, it is a much better choice in terms of convenience, control and support. Don't forget support. The 2100 gets the consumer support, the 170 gets pro support and that is a big difference if you ever have problems with your camera.

well IF I'm gonna buy the PD150/170 it's going to be a used one. I guess Sony's support is only within the 2-year warranty?

I think you'll find all internal mics record the the tape transport hum in the background...you'll need a shock mount what ever.

Personally I have never used the internal mic.... my 897 fits on a shock mount bracket on the side of my FX1. Works very nicely and leaves the hotshoe free for the PAG light. The wireless receiver velcro's to the battery. All this hardware makes the camera a bit heavier but not too bad.

One final thing that I considered.. is that the audio accessories will work on a number of cameras...

I've upgraded twice now and just kept my Sign Video XLR box, and mics for the new camera...

I would have prefered the Z1 (or the PD10 over the TRV 950 I had previously) but the price differences in France are high over 2000 euros extra for a Z1..
the 1000 euros in accessories has been well used with my last too cameras.

All this said and done, both set ups will give you comparable results... I don't think ultimately you'll see a huge difference. It all boils down to your budget.

good luck
Cheers
Gareth

well that's true. As I might upgrade to HDV in some years, it might be a better idea buying the accesories. But is there a sidebracket avaible for the vx2100? The doublebracket seems a bit unstable

Hi Thomas

I've not used a VX2100 so can't say how it might work...but doubt it would be too unstable... you probably won't be using your on camera light that much... I have the PAG6 and only use it occassionally.. it is the worst place to put a light if you don't have to..

On my TRV950 the double bracket was fine...

Otherwise if you want to order over the net from the US there is this
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=126229&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation


the bracket I have now is from Creative video in the UK and was designed for the Z1... I modified it to fit the FX1 and it works very well.


Cheers
Gareth

okay... well yea it's not THAT often. But when I have to use it, it has to be stable.That bracket you just linked to, seems better than the other!

Anyone out there knows about a sidebracket for the VX2100?

"But is there a sidebracket avaible for the vx2100? The doublebracket seems a bit unstable"

Thomas, take a look at this bracket from Mighty Wondercam. It's called the Mini Rover.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=194070&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

1. Mounts to your cameras base (Where tripod plate would go).
2. Then attach Beahtek adapter the bottom of the Rover
3. Attach Quick Release plate to bottom of XLR Adapter

I use this currently with my VX2100 and it works great. I attach my Shotgun Mic to the top of the handle grip and this leaves my hot shoe free on my VX for my PAG6 light as well.

Whats even better the handgrip gives you great steadiness when the camera isn't attached to your tripod. I also clip my Samson Micro Receiver (Using bekt clip) upside down to the bottom of the Rover, which still leaves me free to open and cose the LCD screen door.

I would definitely go this route rather than using a 2 peice adapter on your hot shoe. It adds too much strain to the camera hot shoe for my taste. I used the Cool lUc bracket that someone showed here and hated it as the shotgun mic picked up too much vibration from the adapter.

Also take a look at the Ultimate Rover, as it has a Beahtek adapter built into the handgrip, complete with XLR ports and volume controls. It also has a cage underneath to hold your Wireless receiver.:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=161243&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

Go with the Mini Rover, Ultimate Rover, or something similar, you won't regret it.

http://tinyurl.com/aq8a3

Will show you the healthy L bracket I use with my VX2k. The kit gets pretty heavy, and using it with the L bracket shown on the bh photo website will have such a thing bending across one of the 'lightening' holes.

I am a GREAT believer in using an L bracket. It adds imeasurably to the steadiness of a shot, and when used with a powerful wide-angle converter and OIS turned on, I can glide up and down stairs with the fluidity as shown in the first Rocky films. Takes a bit of practice, but it can be done.

We seem to have gone off at a tangent in this thread, sorry.

tom.

hehe that L-bracket is huge. Too much for me ;)

Think I'm gonna go for the sidebracket Michael linked to. Just one thing though. How is that mounted? I'm imagining like this:

http://www.2084.dk/camera.gif

Correct?

Thomas, if you are talking about the Ultimate Rover, then yes that's exactly how it mounts. Screws right into the bottom of your cameras QR Plate socket.

The same would be said for the Mini Rover, then you would screw your XLR box into the bottom of the Mini Rover.

Okay thanks, that's what I meant. What about the sidebracket, how long is the distance from the camera? Cause the one Tom uses is just way too far, for my work, I think!

"Okay thanks, that's what I meant. What about the sidebracket, how long is the distance from the camera?"

It should about an additional 3/4 of an inch with the LCD screen pulled out. you will find that using the handle on the bracket will give you a very fluid effect when going handheld (with practice of course).

Hi,

Just got to take a closer look at this product

Mighty-Wondercam (Videosmith) ULTIMATE ROVER Handgrip with Dual XLR Audio Adapter - for Small Camcorders

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=161243&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

But does it have phantom power. Pleade reply quickly... my friend is going to the states tommorow. So... :)

EDIT: And.. I can see the DX-6 and DX-8 with phantompower uses a 9V alcaline battery. These are quite expensive... hmm maybe I should just go without the phantompower, and get a mic with batteries... What do you say?

EDIT 2: I'm gonna make another thread in the audioforum

The Ultimate Rover uses the Beachtek DX4 XLR adapter which is not Phantom Powered. The DX4 in the Rover won't need any power what so ever.
So you would just need a mic that takes batteries. It's not that bad really, as all of my mics use only 1 or 2 AA Batteries. AT822 (Stereo Mic), AT835B (Shotgun Mic), Soundprofessional Shotgun Mic etc.

Okay now you're here. But I find the rover extremely expensive. I pay 200 dollars for some metal?

And... I don't need the extra shoe, as I have that in the L bracket right?

So wouldn't this do then:

DX-4:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=136397&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

L-bracket (this has a shoe for mic/light right?)
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=194070&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

A microphone with batteries:
What should I choose?

A monomic for the camera:
What should I choose?

Thomas, what you suggested would work fine, but you would have to be a bit more creative as to where you put your wireless receiver.
What you get in the Ultimate Rover, is a custome built unit that is totally self contained, complete with DX4 XLR adapter in the handle and a cage for your wireless reciever, which is a bit easir to manage everything.
I use the above setup with the DX4 and the Mini Rover and it works well for me. As I said I just clip on my wireless receiver to the bottom side (upside down) of the Mini Rover.

Okay thanks. Will take the mic questions to the audioforum to get some different inputs.

Be aware that if you select an adapter without Phantom capability, you are giving up the opportunity to use a lot of microphones...those that don't have internal battery capability.

well it IS gonna be a freelance career besides my studio. So there's just a limit to what kind of money I can spend. As long as I get the possibilty to record two different audiotracks I'm okay I think. There must be a quality mic out there with batteries.

EDIT: Seems like no one is answering inthere.

Anyone inhere that can suggest a handheld and a monomic for replacing the onboard? I'm still not totally sure about wether to go with or without phantom power. Please help me suggest! I'm in a bit of a hurry

I've pretty much decided now that I will get the DXA-4 without phantom power and in case I will need extra power, I will order this one: http://www.giant-squid-audio-lab.com/gs/gs-batterybox.html . It's a very professional microphone creator and their mics are used by pros around the world. I ordered a lavalier and should be receiving it soon.

That battery supply isn't, AFAIK, a phantom power supply. It is meant to replace the power supply for consumer microphones like the Sony's.

Hmm, could be! But for example the more expensive Beachtek also has a 9V battery inside, is it phantom power then?

The lablel, "Phantom power ," says nothing about the voltage level, it is a description of how the power is applied.

Phantom power is applied across the balanced signal lines and not between a signal line and ground as the power unit you suggested is very probably wired.

As to suggesting a microphone, I did when I mentioned the Shure 81C. But it does require phantom power.

I still think you'd be better off with a camera that supplies phantom power.

So to me it sounds like the best solution (with the vx2100) is to get the beachtek adaptor. Put the mic for interviewing in channel 1 and a shotgun microfone in the shoe. But then I won't have the possibility of having a photolight connected. Am I right? Is this really the only possibility?

The Beachtek is a good solution, which allows independent control of each channel. The only drawback is that the audio level indicator only shows the combined output of both channels (the PD170 gives you separate level meters). For mounting multiple accessories on the shoe, I use an NRG 59111 Tri Mount ($29.99 US from www.nrgresearch.com) which gives me three more mounting points.