I've found that the latest version of Mpeg Wizard does a surprisingly good job of editing HDV. You can find it here:

womble.com

Anyway, everything is real time without intermediary codecs or proxy files. It smart-renders M2T really quickly, is simple and low overhead. I still use Vegas for involved projects, but I find that Mpeg Wizard is extremely useful for a lot of simple projects. I really like it.

Also, I find that Mpeg VCR is really great for splitting M2T files into smaller clips. It smart renders so there is no quality loss and you can define a lot of splits and batch render the actual splitting.

i have been waiting for somebody to test this out with hdv! thanks for the report.

MPEG Wizard is a real gem. It doesn't do a lot, but what it does it does really well. If all you are doing is assembling a single layer of video with some transitions, titling, a background music bed and a narration, and if 1/10th of a second resolution is enough, it may be all you need. It uses hardly any CPU, no proxies or intermediate codecs, smart renders super quick and outputs quality and format that is (for the most part) identical to the source. The music bed can be 44k mp3 files. I just love this program!

Here's an example of how to use it: Let's say you are doing an event with a polished promo for the event, and then all the raw footage as well. You can use a full blown editor like Vegas to do the promo, but use MPEG Wizard to do the rest of the footage. You can insert a couple of titles and cut out all sorts of useless crap, and fade in a couple of beginnings and ends, and have a pretty polished final compilation. You can do all the non-promo stuff without proxies, large intermediaty files, or lenthly renders, and if you grab the promo footage from it, you haven't lost any quality. Boy is that useful!

Not sure if this deserves a new thread, but I downloaded and installed Womble MPEG Wizard today. I was able to import and trim m2t clips, then export the whole thing as a single mpeg.

However, there is no option to save the exported movie to an m2t file, only an mpg file. The export dialog options specify an MPEG2 transport file, but it saves it with an mpg extension. I renamed the file extension .mpg to .m2t, then imported it into HDLink. HDLink accepted the file and began writing to tape, but there is no video or audio playing on the camera's LCD (just a blue screen). I've exported source m2ts back to tape before, so I know the HDLink setup is working.

I explored the MPEG Wizard setup and export options and tried several more settings with the same result. I also can't find any reference to this in the documentation or web site.

I had never tried writing the renamed .m2t file back to tape. I had always figured it would work just fine. I wonder why it doesn't? Womble still seems really useful to me even if this doesn't work. I can edit HDV really quickly without any quality loss and the Womble edited files will work in Vegas. It would be nice to be to write the M2T file back to tape though! Does anyone know why it doesn't work?

The data is different between an M2T and MPG. MPG data can't directly sent to a camera/deck as it hasn't be wrapped into a transport stream (i.e. M2T.)

I looked around the Net and found the following comments in regards to why this same process doesn't work from Ulead Videostudio software (which smartrenders the mpeg from m2t files as well):


The m2t files are just mpeg2 content but are broken up into packets and error detection and correction bits are added to guarantee delivery when transmitted over a lossy transmission link. Some but not all software can detect the packets and remove them for playback. In this case, the mpeg file has to be packetized to send it back to the HC1 for playback. The HC1 wants to see the packets and can't seem to hack a straight mpeg2 stream.

It is probably the same situation with the Womble editor. The Vegas M2T mpeg render must include these "packets" along with the mpeg in order to facilitate writing the files back to tape.

Choose transport stream, for media file types choose "all files", then type in the full file name.m2t.

I was able to print back to tape on the JVC GR-HD1, but have not tried on the Sony HVR-Z1U.

Suggest that using an expensive tape playback device or the camcorder itself is less desirable than using one of the media players like the AVeL LinkPlayer2. You can stream out the Womble edited file from the PC or Mac server, or put the edited m2t file onto a DVD data disk and play it from the DVD drawer.

I just tried selecting Mpeg2 transport, "All files", then typed the filename with the .m2t extension. It saved the file as m2t this time, but still won't write to tape on my FX1 via HDLink. I'll play around with it some more, it could be I'm just missing something simple.

EDIT: I've tried all of the relevant settings on the Mpeg2 transport export and still can't write to tape on the FX1.

If this works it will mean I can archive and backup by making lossless copies of tapes.

As far as backup goes, I have chopped a large M2T file into smaller bits, getting rid of garbage footage in the process, and saved these smaller files onto DVD-Rs. It's a pretty efficient and space conscious way to back up footage.

You can archive and backup. Being able to print to HDV tape and play back from a HDV cam or player is a feature of the NLEs that support it. Note that m2t streams from other sources, off the air recordings etc also are not compatible with playback through HDV cams, but do playback from media servers.

this program is kick ass...
really fast...real time HDV edit. it's so fast even able to work well in pentium3 1gz. cinform codec is great but workflow is simply impossible when you are editing more than 10tape... that's about 600 gigia... it's just too much time consuming and eat up HDD space...

i don't know why sony vegas is not suporting this program.

I've gotten a little deeper into the MPEG Edit program and am finding it can do a lot of things I didn't think it did. Lower thirds titling for instance is really slick. I believe I'll be using this program more than I thought I would.

The thing about this program is that it shows that native M2T editing and smartrendering is not only possible, but that it can be quite a practical way to work. The limitation seems to be that you can only do edits on fully defined frames. These seem to be placed at about tenth of a second intervals. On some projects, that is not enough resolution, but other times, the absolutely HUGE savings in rendering time and hard disc space make this an easy tradeoff.

The limitation seems to be that you can only do edits on fully defined frames. These seem to be placed at about tenth of a second intervals. On some projects, that is not enough

Then I have some good news for you. It will cut on ANY frame (frame accurate) on the timeline, or in the input window if you right click, choose playback speed and deselect "I" frame.

Then I have some good news for you. It will cut on ANY frame (frame accurate) on the timeline, or in the input window if you right click, choose playback speed and deselect "I" frame.

No, it will just cut on any "P" frame in that case, with the "I" frames not being displayed. It is not the editors fault, "I" frames are not fully drawn and need to have the frames they are based upon in front of them. There is no way to edit to "I" frames without first rendering them to a fully defined format like the Cineform codec.

No, it will just cut on any "P" frame in that case, with the "I" frames not being displayed. It is not the editors fault, "I" frames are not fully drawn and need to have the frames they are based upon in front of them. There is no way to edit to "I" frames without first rendering them to a fully defined format like the Cineform codec.

You can cut on any I, B, or P frame. Put a 1 second clip on the timeline, you can cut it 30 times.

I tried it. Yes you can indeed cut anywhere. This must mess up the "I" and "P" patterns though. Now I understand why the media player glitches ever so slightly on the edits and while some hardware and software players can't play the MPEG Edit generated files at all.

I think whenever you make a cut an "I" frame is created at that point.

There may even be an explanation for the process used in the help topics included with the program.

Womble is not packeting the stream in HDV format, just the mpeg2ts transport stream that HDV uses. So I think it plays back fine in any media player that can handle the bit rate and is not restricted to HDV-only playback, like the cams.

The Sept 05 revision is far and away the most stable for seamless playback.

Yeah, the September version is by far the best. I also find that if I drop the Womble generated file on the Vegas timeline I can rerender it to M2T just fine and that file plays back well on any player. You could probably do the same thing in MPEG Edit by dropping the completed file back on a fresh MPEG Edit timeline and adding a null filter like a cropping filter with no crop so that MPEG edit would rerender the whole file in one go.

i've never seen a software or hardware player that failed to handle a womble-edited file... i've been working with it for at least two years now; everything works, including mpeg2 files edited for use on dvd's... it even edits ac3 audio with no problems.

if there is some software player issue specific to the hdv format, i wouldn't be able to comment on it, because i've never done that... i could not find any reference for hdv support on the womble website, but it would probably be a good idea to bring the subject up on the womble forum, see what the product engineer has to say about it... i bet that womble would include specific hdv support with a bit of prodding, they are incredibly good about releasing constant updates to their products.

re-rendering everything should be avoided at all costs, regardless of the format.