I am a new member, and this is my first comment. I too am awaiting the AG-HVX200 - I am currently shooting with an AG-DVX100A. My question is, how likely is one to be able to record directly from the AG-HVX200 to a laptop hard drive via either firewire or USB-2 ? I would assume that some type of NLE program would be used in capture mode. Is the data stream too large for this approach ? Mark Donnell, M.D. Silver City, NM

I think it's possible, but you'll need a laptop with much disc space...
But I'll let other people give better comments on this thread, but if I'm not mistaken, it should be possible.

How much disk space would depend on the desired format and frame rate. The HVX can output everything from plain vanilla DV all the way to DVCPRO HD. If it has to be HD then that will require 1GB per minute of video.

I was planning to record DVCPRO HD, and I have a laptop with a 250 GB hard drive and 1 GB RAM. What might be a small software program that could be used to record DVCPRO HD in real-time ? Mark Donnell, Silver City, NM

I'm expecting my new Apple desktop to come in by midweek (2.3 dual core, 2gb memory, 500gb hard drive to start + Final Cut Studio)--there's nothing else I'll need to buy to run this camera into the computer and store footage directly, right? Just a big ass firewire?

But say....right this minute we have a high powered windows laptop with oodles of RAm and HD space. What program exactly would we need to capture HD (720 or 1080) directly to hard drive. I have Premiere Pro and Vegas.....I'm guessing neither will do the job as of now.

But say....right this minute we have a high powered windows laptop with oodles of RAm and HD space. What program exactly would we need to capture HD (720 or 1080) directly to hard drive. I have Premiere Pro and Vegas.....I'm guessing neither will do the job as of now.
Neither would do the job as of now. On the PC platform you'd need Avid Express Pro HD or Canopus Edius with whatever plug-in options would be necessary.

I'm certain someone will develop a capture application, but as of now I think only DV100-enabled editing programs could be used for capture.

And with Avid Xpress Pro HD, you can mix resolutions on the timeline without the need for rendering.

Another beauty of the Avid program is that if you jam sync timecode from multiple HVX-200s (or other cameras with the same or different resolutions), you can group the clips from these sources and edit in multicam mode.

I'm doing all this and more on an off-the-shelf HP nx9600, and it works well.

Regards,

Joe Womble

Another dumb question. At work I have a Mac-Mini that I use for doing titles only. Primarily because we had a copy of Final Cut Pro HD with LIvetype. I conned the office into buying the Mac-mini so I could use it for titling and animation. IT does the job ok but is not very powerful or fast.

However if I hook up my external firewire drive to this and the HVX200 also can I capture HD directly? I know editing HD on a "lowly" mac-mini is not realistic. But would capturing be an option? I guess if it is I am still stuck as I can't edit on my more powerful PC with Premiere Pro or vegas. My only chance is we do have a copy of AVID express dv. MAybe there is a cost effective upgrade to the HD version....then again maybe not.

I am just trying to look for my options. Initially I will be doing SD projects only.....but I need to be ready.

Thanks.

If the Mac Mini meets Apple's minimum system specs for capturing HD, then it certainly seems possible. Capturing is a lot less system-intensive than editing, so I'd bet it's possible...

As regards the Mac Mini
Wouldn't you need to "Log & Capture" from Final Cut or iMovie to start the input of footage to a Mac Mini?
I doubt if you just plugged the firewire in from the HVX200 and walked arouund with the Mini in a backpack it would work.
I hope that I am wrong, because then we would have a 100G firestore for 700$

However,
If you are send ing footage directly through Firewire
(I know yo loos some mete data...but...) wont it compress the footage a bit more than
capturing to the P2 card (or HD that plugs into P2 slot) ?

As regards the Mac Mini
Wouldn't you need to "Log & Capture" from Final Cut or iMovie to start the input of footage to a Mac Mini?
I doubt if you just plugged the firewire in from the HVX200 and walked arouund with the Mini in a backpack it would work.
I hope that I am wrong, because then we would have a 100G firestore for 700$

However,
If you are send ing footage directly through Firewire
(I know yo loos some mete data...but...) wont it compress the footage a bit more than
capturing to the P2 card (or HD that plugs into P2 slot) ?

Obviously you need software that "logs and captures" footage. The mac mini can't just work like a firestore. I can run final cut pro HD on the mac mini with an external firewire drive and it is very capable of DV. HD is what I am asking about.

And this is not as an alternative to a firestore.....I am asking for studio type work. If I had Avid HD I'd use it on my PC. But since I don't, and I do have FCP HD on my mac mini I thought maybe I could put it to use.

But for those of us who do have Final Cut, then perhaps the mini would be an option... hmmm... any way to plug it into a portable power source? I like your backpack idea:)

Yes,
Knowing these things I had determined to use my 17" Apple to pull in the Live Video with Log & Capture,

Along these lines,
Will Capturing Live via Firewire involve any extra compression than a P2?

& Betsy, I may resort to pressing Log & Capture, folding the laptop up almost all the way (with a towel in it) and throwing it in a backpack)
--Guerilla tactics, I know, but we use what we can

(and this is talking about getting footage in Not editing)

Cheers,

I think there is mass confusion over the issues regarding editing HD, especially by those who have never done it. It is not DV or HDV, it is a different animal. How are you guys planning on delivering HD? That is the REAL strain...real time HD output that in most all cases require a very fast RAID and a Kona or similar card. Also, if you are dealing with a project with lots of CC or effects you are looking at your render times quadrupling.

I just was hired to oversee a project shot in HD and we ended up having to spend almost $40k just for the post production tech upgrade. That is a FCP system, not an Andrenaline or AVID. $22k was for a DVCproHD deck, $10K on a big Fibre Raid, the rest was for monitoring, cabling and the Power-Mac set-up. This system will get us 4-7 streams of DVCproHD which should be workable.


ash =o)

Ash,
For serious editing in HD for me, I will be working on someone elses "HD" ready system. I am looking only for a barebones aquisition for the times that I need HD. Mostly I will be working in the SD realm for a while and want to get my feet wet so that I am better prepared fo it when HD becomes more of the norm.

I never meant to give any reference that I thought the MAC-MINI could edit a full blown HD production. SImply can it be used to record a HD stream to an external Hard drive thus bypassing P2 or firestore.

..guess I don't see the advantage over a 12 " pwb. Considering the pwb has it's own ps , monitor , and more ram. cost? come on, if you can afford the pany, then ...- Kurth

..guess I don't see the advantage over a 12 " pwb. Considering the pwb has it's own ps , monitor , and more ram. cost? come on, if you can afford the pany, then ...- Kurth

Kurth,
I am not sure if you were replying to my post about the mac-mini but here is my response if you were. The single biggest advantage of the mac-mini over the 12" powerbook is......(drumroll please)......I already own it! that's right. I have a small mac-mini in my ofice at work that is bought and paid for. I also have a couple of high-end dual zeon workstations too. But alas....the point is I am spending my own "nickel" on the HVX and I could barely afford it. I don't have the budget for P2 cards or Firestore immediately and will be shooting in SD for a while. But I would like to play around and capture a little HD just to get a feel for the workflow. Of course I would prefer a powerbook to a mac-mini but since I got my mac-mini for under $500 and I couldn't touch a powerbook for that I cannot complain.

Just wanting to experiment. Also.....I don't think it would be right to assume that everyone that can afford a HVX has the cash to buy all of the accessories and a new laptop too. It would be ideal but I personally am going to piece the whole kit together over the next year.

I understand you,
The two things I would bring up are that
1) you will need a Monitor & Mouse to start the log & capture process in FCP or iMovie
2) I am not sure the speed of the Hard drive in the Mini. But I think you need a 7200 to capture

but I would be interested to see what you find

I understand you,
The two things I would bring up are that
1) you will need a Monitor & Mouse to start the log & capture process in FCP or iMovie
2) I am not sure the speed of the Hard drive in the Mini. But I think you need a 7200 to capture

but I would be interested to see what you find

Absolutely. I am talking about a "Studio" setup. If I had software for the PC that could capture HD I would hook it to my dual zeon with SATA drives in it. But since I don't I figured that the mini might work for testing. I have 17" LCD and mac keyboard and mouse to use with it along with a 120GB external 7200 firewire/usb2 drive. I realize this is far from ideal but since I already own this stuff I figured I might as well play around with it.

Of course.....the guest of honor has yet to arrive. The HVX that is. When it get's here I can just try this stuff and see if it works and stop asking so many "theoretical" questions!

Thanks!

got it
Well, me thinks it will fly.
hope so

got it
Well, me thinks it will fly.
hope so
The problem I forsee is that I will capture it and then when I try to view it the darn Mac-mini will be way to slow and frustrate the daylights out of me! While logic tells me to expect this I know I am going to get irritated! If Adobe or Vegas would just get on board!

$22k was for a DVCproHD deck, $10K on a big Fibre Raid...
Ash,
In your opinion, if you were doing in-studio work and were not shooting tons of footage so you stayed well within Chris Hurd's "1 gig per minute for DVCPRO HD" guideline as stated earlier in the thread, would the following work with a G5/Powerbook:

-Connect the HVX200 to the G5/Powerbook.
-Buy the appropriate Lacie Hard Drive (250 gig, 500 gig or 1 TB for roughly 250, 500 or 1,000 minutes) & connect it to the G5/Powerbook.
-Set the Final Cut Pro 5.0.3 scratch drive to the newly connected Hard Drive.
-Shoot Footage and capture at the same time.
-Edit everything that was shot on that Hard Drive, while saving all FCP files related to that project on the same Hard Drive.

Sort of a Hard Drive per project basis I guess - on an “as needed” basis.

That way, one would not be outlaying a huge amount of cash for a RAID with storage they may not need, and by the time one does need it the cost would be lower (as storage cost continues to drop and drop) and more options become available. Of course I could see the need for the RAID if you are doing alot of HD work.

this is what I am hoping to do too Derek
cheers
~jb

Ash,
In your opinion, if you were doing in-studio work and were not shooting tons of footage so you stayed well within Chris Hurd's "1 gig per minute for DVCPRO HD" guideline as stated earlier in the thread, would the following work with a G5/Powerbook:

-Connect the HVX200 to the G5/Powerbook.
-Buy the appropriate Lacie Hard Drive (250 gig, 500 gig or 1 TB for roughly 250, 500 or 1,000 minutes) & connect it to the G5/Powerbook.
-Set the Final Cut Pro 5.0.3 scratch drive to the newly connected Hard Drive.
-Shoot Footage and capture at the same time.
-Edit everything that was shot on that Hard Drive, while saving all FCP files related to that project on the same Hard Drive.

Sort of a Hard Drive per project basis I guess - on an “as needed” basis.

That way, one would not be outlaying a huge amount of cash for a RAID with storage they may not need, and by the time one does need it the cost would be lower (as storage cost continues to drop and drop) and more options become available. Of course I could see the need for the RAID if you are doing alot of HD work.

I read that for audio, "the AG-HVX200 includes two XLR inputs. The camcorder can record 4-channel non-compressed 48KHz/16-bit in DVCPRO and DVCPROHD."

If there are only 2 xlr inputs, where would the other two channels of audio come from???

also, to record live, DVCPRO HD from camera directly onto hard drive, it would be routed thru an NLE program in "capture" mode via firewire, just as if the video were coming off of a tape?

I read that for audio, "the AG-HVX200 includes two XLR inputs. The camcorder can record 4-channel non-compressed 48KHz/16-bit in DVCPRO and DVCPROHD."

If there are only 2 xlr inputs, where would the other two channels of audio come from???

Stereo XLR jacks.

also, to record live, DVCPRO HD from camera directly onto hard drive, it would be routed thru an NLE program in "capture" mode via firewire, just as if the video were coming off of a tape?

Yep. Just as you can record directly to a computer now via firewire with a DV camcorder with your capture software, you can do the same with the HVX200 in DVCPro. However, you will need to record to P2 or other media attached to the PC card interface if you want the full metadata and extra recording capabilities of the camera. But you can still get all the video out of the camera via the firewire port.

So would you be able to record full audio and video into the computer at the same time? Or would you have to P2 card one?

So would you be able to record full audio and video into the computer at the same time? Or would you have to P2 card one?

Yes, full audio *AND* video. It's all encoded into the DVCPro[HD] or DV format you're recording in. What you gain from using the P2 interface is XML metadata and extended camera info to go along with your video clips. This metadata is not available over a firewire connection.

What would be cool is if the camera can be set to send your audio/video out over the firewire interface while recording extended metadata only out to a P2 card. I don't know if it will support this, but seems like a no-brainer type feature to me.

Yes, full audio *AND* video. It's all encoded into the DVCPro[HD] or DV format you're recording in. What you gain from using the P2 interface is XML metadata and extended camera info to go along with your video clips. This metadata is not available over a firewire connection.

What would be cool is if the camera can be set to send your audio/video out over the firewire interface while recording extended metadata only out to a P2 card. I don't know if it will support this, but seems like a no-brainer type feature to me.

So if you record on an 8gb P2 and then using the offload to a firewire drive feature of the HVX will the metadata stay intact? Also....if you take the P2 card out and put it in a PCMCIA slot and copy the files over I am assuming that the metadata stays intact there? It has to stay intact somehow other than just while it is on the p2 card itself.....sorry if these are stupid questions but I need to understand the workflow.

So if you record on an 8gb P2 and then using the offload to a firewire drive feature of the HVX will the metadata stay intact? Also....if you take the P2 card out and put it in a PCMCIA slot and copy the files over I am assuming that the metadata stays intact there? It has to stay intact somehow other than just while it is on the p2 card itself.....sorry if these are stupid questions but I need to understand the workflow.

Yes, the metadata stays intact when you pull files from the P2 card (using the camera as a reader, or using a PC card slot/drive on a computer). Your computer will see the camera (with P2 devices) just as it would see an external memory card reader with memory cards installed and the video clips and metadata appear just as files in a folder on your Windows/Mac desktop.

On the other hand, if you're recording live video directly out to the firewire port or pulling video from the camera's tape system as we do now with our DV cameras or even direct capture of realtime playback off the P2 card. Just the DVCPro/HD/DV stream is sent over, not the extra metadata.

The camera is only capable of creating metadata and writing it to the P2 interface. So if you have no P2 card inserted in the camera, no metadata will be recorded for whatever you're recording at the time. But if you do have a P2 card in the camera, then it should record metadata to the card even if you're capturing directly to firewire, the DV tape system or the P2 card itself. Metadata on the P2 card is available to your computer when viewing the P2 as a storage device. When shooting to P2, you won't be "capturing" video as you do now with DV. You will connect the camera to your computer or drop the P2 card into your computer's PC card slot and you will grab the files (clips and metadata) you want and you will drag them to where you want them.