Anxiously awaiting your reviews and especially some more clips.

KW

Give him some time to unpack the dang thing!

Must...see...clips......soon. (Shatner is hard to represent via text.)

KW

Yup, got it. NO promises, but I'll try to post a little something by bedtime tonight -- some initial impressions, a few stills, and maybe a clip or two. I DO promise that I'll do so as soon as I'm able, though.

I would have gone with something like "Must see . . . clips . . . . . soon!" with an emphatic yet meaningless gesture on the "soon". The pauses need to be a bit varied as to how many syllables are in between them and how long they are.

Live long and prosper.

Shatner is hard to represent via text.

Maybe this would be a better approach? http://www.theta-g.com/rec/shatner/

Must...see...clips......soon. (Shatner is hard to represent via text.)

KW

You should try representing Christopher Walken in text. That's always a hoot.

Ok, you goofy geekoids. I dashed off a couple of brief paragraphs and a few photos and frame grabs on my web site:

http://www.geosynchrony.com/scratchpad.htm

Will try to get whatever Chris wants moved to the DVinfo gallery tomorrow.

I know it ain't much info yet. Probably the big news for me is that a rough hack on this quick motionless rez test makes me think that 24F is about halfway between 1-field interpolation and true progressive resolution. Not bad, but not quite full 1080p rez, either. Lots left to look at with this cam...familiar, yet definitely a step up from the XL2.

More to follow in a day or two.

I got to fiddle with one for awhile today, no recording though,

the focus and zoom rings definetely feel better, don't know how to describe it but they just do. the viewfinder is quite nice and the evf zoom feature is great, still doesn't show the entire frame. it's a lot heavier than an XL2 but it feels like the weight has been shifted back some and the camera is a little bit better balanced. the zoom takes off smoother when you use the rocker than it does with an XL2. there's a 3rd record button on the back of the ear that has aperture and shutter controls near the lens, other than that it was pretty much what i expected, i can't comment on HDV because i didn't record any.

now how to find 9 grand...

Pete, could you tell us any thing about the size compared to the XL-2?

I'm curious if the XLH1 could use the same rainslicker, bags etc.

- Per Johan

Per, the XL H1 and XL2 share the exact same body chassis, and the lens dimensions are identical as well. So the overall measurements are the same between the two, and anything that fits the XL2 will also fit the XL H1.

The XL H1 is a bit heavier than the XL2. The EVF is just slightly wider, and the mic mount is a little taller. Those are the only external differences I can think of.

The redish tint reminds me of the xl1.Did you use custom settings?
Also,can you switch between NTSC and PAL or do you have to send it back to Canon for that?


P.S.
...damn, i just lost another 9 grant.

He'll have to send it back to Canon to get the 50i/60i switchability.

But will the 25p look like the 30p or the 24f?
I actually need PAL but if i'm going to get the same image i'd rather shoot in 24f.

Pete, could you tell us any thing about the size compared to the XL-2?

I'm curious if the XLH1 could use the same rainslicker, bags etc.

- Per Johan

The H1 is the same size. It's the XL-2 chassis modified slightly as to control placement but still the same. And most importantly, they painted it all black this time. :-)

Also of note, the H1 has returned to the wheel for iris step instead of the toggle that debuted on the XL-2.

-gb-

He'll have to send it back to Canon to get the 50i/60i switchability.

Like he!! I'm going to send it in. ;-)

What Chris is mentioning is that the capability to shoot both NTSC and PAL is something that CAN be switched on -- for an additional cost -- at a Canon Authorized Service Center, but the camera ships from the factory as either PAL or NTSC, not both. I don't need PAL presently, but that option is available for those who need both systems.

If you don't mind saying, what did you pay for the camera with the lens? Also, how much for an extra battery and what is your impression of how long the stock battery will last while shooting?

I think nearly everyone has this right at $8999. KW

I don't really care about the additional cost,it's just that i probably wouldn't want to send the camera back right after i get it :D
Does anyone know where i can buy a PAL model?

Yeah, at this point I don't think you'll find a reputable dealer -- and certainly not an authorized dealer -- selling at discount. I paid the standard price through Zotz Digital, a DVinfo.net sponsor.

Too soon to personally verify this, but Canon rates the new batteries for significantly longer than the standard batteries that shipped with the XL2. They're still labeled as Lithium Ion, but apparently use some newer graphite technology or something. The estimated battery life for all the batteries is listed in a table in the H1 user's manual; there is a link in a sticky thread at the top of the forum for the manual pdf. Don't know what the batteries will cost individually at retail, but I'd suppose that "new and improved" will mean "more pricey."

Pete, when you get some time, can you check something? Does the EVF have a setting for it to be flipped (upside down) for use with a P&S Technik or other adapter? Prelease rumors mentioned this, but I don't see it in the manual.

I'm very disappointed that in this day and age, the EVF is still overscanned. That is just crazy and very un-pro. Looking forward to begin dazzled by some ftg, though.

Thanks a bunch.

Kevin

Thanks Pete for the info! I ordered mine today for 7750.- EUR I really hope this is no fake because everywhere else its about 8900.- EUR.

Is there any trusty release date for good old europe - especially for austria - if so please tell me.

I REALLY have a very hard time waiting to see more footage... Please Pete please .... neeed some footage ... ;)

Kevin,

I've never used the mini35, but I think the answer to your question is "yes." Page 92 of the manual describes the "EVF Flip" feature.

Pete T,

I forgot to mention earlier that I would NOT read anything into any color cast in the frame grabs I have posted. I used auto white balance and no custom presets on the XL H1; also had mixed 3000K Flo tubes and plain old overhead home incandescent lights burning, so it was kind of a messed up color temperature environment...was really going purely for rez testing as quickly as I could get it done. In addition, it seems that the wood cabinetry and tan wall paint in my house cast the color toward the pink/red look. Along those lines, the XL2 image showed so pink on the monitor that I DID actually bother to switch to the incandescent WB setting to whiten up the image.

Michael,

Sorry I personally don't have any info on European distribution. Maybe someone else has heard something?

All,

I'll try to have at least one or two very short video clips posted by tomorrow morning. But for now, gotta go pick the kiddo up from school...sadly, life won't just stop for a few days so I can play with the camera more!

Michael, the PAL H1 is on the shelf here in Norway. But its rather expensive, 9240 Eur (10800 US$).
So I quess that it should show up in Austria soon.

- Per Johan

Michael, I guess, Your price is without the value-added tax (7750x16/100+7750=8990)!
A dealer here in Berlin has told me: date of delivery around christmas.

Pete, well, send it to me, and I can run it through it's paces here in sweet home Alabama. (I actually hate this state, but that is beside the point)

Dan, nice try. NO dice. ;-)

I updated my web site with one short 24F clip using a beta version of Aspect HD 3.4 (new update that supports the H1) within PPro 1.5.1. Same link as yesterday: http://www.geosynchrony.com/scratchpad.htm

Big thanks to David Taylor at Cineform for letting me try the non-public beta!

Robert,

no its with the tax actually with 20% Tax so the price without tax is 6491,6 EUR...

Thanks all for the info! Pete, big DANKESCHÖN (thanks) for the clip !!!

What is that!? By watching the "H1 24F Coin Twirl" clip with Adobe Premiere Pro 1.5 in 24p mode frame by frame, there sometimes the motion stops for one frame (five times: 00:00:00:09 -> 00:00:00:10, 00:00:00:12 -> 00:00:00:13, 00:00:00:15 -> 00:00:00:16, 00:00:00:18 -> 00:00:00:19, 00:00:00:21 -> 00:00:00:22). And the clip is definitely not progressive (for instance look at 00:00:02:01 - terrible!).

I made the same observation weeks ago from Kaku Ito's clip, "Cars Passing."

I think 24F still is recording at 60i and using pulldown.

What is that (at 00:00:02:01)? Bad deinterlacing? And that is not the only one!

http://www.refrat.hu-berlin.de/~filmklub/tom/201.bmp

Dan, nice try. NO dice. ;-)

I updated my web site with one short 24F clip using a beta version of Aspect HD 3.4 (new update that supports the H1) within PPro 1.5.1. Same link as yesterday: http://www.geosynchrony.com/scratchpad.htm

Big thanks to David Taylor at Cineform for letting me try the non-public beta!

Ironically, that loose change is all Pete has left after buying the H1. ;-) Hope you're having fun, Pete!

-gb-

It is 60i with pulldown,it's in the manual.That's why i want the PAL model - 25p.
Pete,you should do some 30p tests when you have the time,i think it'll look best.

Michael, the PAL H1 is on the shelf here in Norway. But its rather expensive, 9240 Eur (10800 US$).
So I quess that it should show up in Austria soon.

Per, In Finland the value added tax is 22%, but the price is 8390 euro. However, not available yet.

Attempting to analysis a WMV file is not leading to conclusions about the camera. The camera is placing 24 progressive encoded frames into a transport stream using repeat flags to fit the data into a 60i wrapper. This means a true 24 frame per second can extracted and edited, without compromise, from this camera. There is not need to shoot PAL with this camera to get the best progressive image (that is only true for the Sony Z1.)

lol, that's probably pretty close to the truth! =^).

Ironically, that loose change is all Pete has left after buying the H1. ;-) Hope you're having fun, Pete!

-gb-

Thanks for this clip Pete!

I'm wondering - i read the manual of the XL H1 and it says "Can be attached to the HD 20x L IS, 20x L IS, 16x IS II and 16x manual zoom lenses (only for recording in SD mode)." [Page 148]

It doesn't say something about the 3x Zoom Lens XL 3.4–10.2 mm, in spite of that the 3x Lens is shown as compatible lens in the graphic on the page 147. Does this mean that the wide angle lens is able to shoot in the HD mode?

thanks in advance!

(... maybe pete has an 3x and the opportunity to test it...)

Thanks for this clip Pete!

I'm wondering - i read the manual of the XL H1 and it says "Can be attached to the HD 20x L IS, 20x L IS, 16x IS II and 16x manual zoom lenses (only for recording in SD mode)." [Page 148]

It doesn't say something about the 3x Zoom Lens XL 3.4–10.2 mm, in spite of that the 3x Lens is shown as compatible lens in the graphic on the page 147. Does this mean that the wide angle lens is able to shoot in the HD mode?

thanks in advance!

(... maybe pete has an 3x and the opportunity to test it...)

No, the 3x is not an HD capable lens. That is likely an oversight in the manual on page 148. The graphic on pg. 147 is correct. For SD recording only.

-gb-

Ironically, that loose change is all Pete has left after buying the H1. ;-) Hope you're having fun, Pete!

Yes, it's true. So, Greg, even more ironically, you'll have to buy the beer when you stop over to check out the H1!

-----

Ok, after a lot of effort and much tribulation, I've posted an update to my web site page for video: Scratchpad (http://www.geosynchrony.com/scratchpad.htm)

Most of my comments are already on the web site, but a couple of points here for those who may not read or download from my site:

Robert N:
As David Newman alluded to, what you're seeing in the Coin Twirl video is motion blur, not interlace artifact. How Canon gets these kind of full-frame images from an interlaced CCD is a mystery to the rest of us -- all they'll say is "DIGIC" which doesn't tell us anything technical. But whatever they're doing, it works! The resolution of the 24F and 30F modes is SLIGHTLY reduced from 60i, but very clean. You'll see the difference between interlace and motion blur very well in the various "Wheel" samples I posted.

David N mentioned WMV as being less than ideal for doing critical analysis of the camera; absolutely right, of course...it was just a quick clip to give you guys SOMETHING to look at before my head hit the pillow the other night. I believe that the WMV frame repeats are due to an encoding error; the repeat frames don't show up in PPro/Aspect, nor do they appear in an MPEG2 file I later encoded.

Pete T:
Again, David Newman knows his business. 25F and 30F would use the same DIGIC processing to output a "segmented progressive frame;" that is, the same type of PAL- or NTSC-compatible 50i or 60i signal that a camera with true progessive CCD would output: two fields that are half of one original image. The difference with 24F is that 3:2 pulldown is put out, just like is done with the XL2 or DVX100. Of course, if one needs PAL, one should get a PAL camera; but if you're in NTSC-land, I don't see any more reason to buy a PAL H1 than I would have for the XL2 or DVX.

In addition to "the Wheel" samples on my web site, I also did informal resolution comparisons with the HD-20x, SD-20x, and 3x lenses. ANYONE ELSE who has the H1 and one or more SD lenses, please double check me and do some rez testing also! I find it almost unbelieveable given the existing dogma about SD lenses not being adequate, but both the SD-20x and the 3x fared quite well. If I haven't screwed up the test, I'll be happy to keep my 3x.

Probably won't do much more dull tests in the near future (way boring!), but the weather is clearing so I'll go out over the next couple of days and shoot some wind-blown trees or something to push the GOP compression.

And lastly, thanks again to Cineform for sharing the beta of Aspect HD 3.4, which they say should be available any day, and for the kind acknowledgement of my efforts here with the XL H1 on the latest rev to David Newman's blog:
http://cineform.blogspot.com/

Happy Holidays!

Is it just me or does the 20x SD lens seems to have less chromatic aberration?

EDIT: The 24f/30f stills look like deintelaced to me.

Pete Bauer, You are doing a really great job here. I thank You very much for Your information.
When You go out filming during the next days, I would be very interested in seeing some people in action (in film-like camera settings).

Pete Tomov, may You describe, what in the 24f/30f stills looks like deinterlaced to You?

Is that really motion blur? The twirling coin looks bitten into for me: http://www.refrat.hu-berlin.de/~filmklub/tom/201.bmp.

Well,open one of the 24f/30f resolution charts and look top left or right.The edges of the arrows look kinna 'boxy'.That's what you get when you use field duplication deinterlace.There is some sort of anti-aliasing but you can still tell.
It's like the frame mode on an xl1s but in this resolution it's harder to notice.

What a pleasant surprise - a Putora chart shot through the 3x shows the same resolution as the H1 20x lens in 30P! I was thinking I was really going to miss that 3x lens. Need to try it on something more exciting than Putora charts, though.

Added a few minutes later: but I have to say that just panning around the room images from the H1 20x are noticeably crisper. Sigh.

If you look up close to the stills of charts Pete shot you can see that the F modes are slightly blurrier. I wouldn't say though that it's half of the resolution. It looks like an improved Frame Mode from the XL1/GL2.

Zoom in as much as you can:
http://www.geocities.com/headlesspuppy/stuff/24fvs60i.jpg

Also, to people mentioning they will wait for the PAL version because it has 25p, well, it doesn't. As far as I know there's no true progressive modes on this camera at all - You'll have 25F alright, but that will be identical to 24F and 30F in terms of resolution.

hi Pete,

do you know if accessories like the CH910 still workis?

Yup, it will.

The complete XL H1 accessory list is at the end of the owner's manual (see sticky thread at the top of the forum: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=55123) and also on the Canon web site (http://consumer.usa.canon.com/ir/controller?act=SupportDetailAct&fcategoryid=227&modelid=12152), and they do list the dual charger, along with most other existing XL accessories.

The new "G" batteries are rated at 7.4V rather than 7.2, but are compatible with older XL's and of course with the H1, and seem to have an unnaturally long charge capacity (see the user's manual for Canon's specs on this). All the testing I've done so far (Hi1 powered on for at least a couple of hours) and the standard "G" battery is barely off of "full."

Thanks for all the info Pete, good stuff!!

Any chance of getting some high quality still frames? (a la the new HVX stuff?)

Any would be greatly appreciated. Have fun with the camera.

Here are 4 starting at http://www.pbase.com/agamid/image/53530487. All 1080i HDV frame grabs captured to FCP5 and exported via Quick time to JPEGs. Re-sampled to 1920 x 1080 in Photo Shop.

Here are 4 starting at http://www.pbase.com/agamid/image/53530487. All 1080i HDV frame grabs captured to FCP5 and exported via Quick time to JPEGs. Re-sampled to 1920 x 1080 in Photo Shop.

So A.J., can we assume you are a proud owner of the new H1? If so, congratulations!

-gb-