Finally got around to getting our HVX200 clips shot on P2. I have 4 raw clips that my friend Barlow and I shot with Panasonic's HVX200 at DVexpo last week.* What I have are three 720P 24 and one 1080P 24 raw clips.** We shot these on a 4gig p2 card and then brought them from a powerbook laptop via the PCMCIA slot into Final Cut Pro and then burned them to CD.

BTW- Import to FCP was so easy that it was awesome. I have no problem with tape, but the P2 worked flawlessly with FCP. Thumbs Up!

The Footage is nothing fancy at all.* It's convention show floor footage on sticks with pretty bland lighting you get at any show. It's more like If I were shooting a documentary ( ala Michael Moore- frontline etc ) or run & gun film like BlairWitch etc; that's what these show conditions would resemble simply non controlled environments that we would face for that type of filmmaking or cinema verite** style.


FIRST ISSUE: Server needed........

Ok, the problem is I need someone to post these clips or mirror them.* We don't have the download bandwidth to cover a massive download.

So if your serious, and I know you from the boards. If approved, I will give a private not be publicized link to get these files.* I ask that you have these files up within one hour of getting them. * So if you have the bandwidth let me know, and if you can do this that would be wonderful.

Important:

Again, I want to stress that the conditions at the recent DVexpo and how the camera would film are more like how documentary or run and gun type filmmakers would be facing. This is real world filming, not studio filmmaking with sets and a lighting to make perfect pretty looking images.

So this footage is not like the awesome material that Barry Green,Jarred Land, Evin Grant etc filmed. Nor is it like the awesome footage that Illya Friedman's production shot*that was filmed out and screened at Laser Pacific.

It is however raw P2 clips straight from the camera to FCP and nothing done to them what's so ever. There just 720/24 and 1080/24 mode footage that people can play with and look at...

If you can host these clips Email me at : Arrfilms@hotmail.com


Michael Pappas
Arrfilms@hotmail.com
PappasArts & Arrfilms Main site
http://www.pbase.com/Arrfilms
http://www.PappasArts.com
http://www.Myspace.com/

One last note: They were shot at Odb

Somebody host these clips!!!

I'd host them, but I only have about 12GB per day of bandwidth allowance left on my server. If I exceed that it starts digging into my wallet pretty badly. :-(

We are working on it. We are getting a list of credible people that can host these. Understand these clips were shot on the official roll out date of the HVX200 and just three weeks before it's in stores to buy. I remember when Canon announced the H1 many weeks before it shipped that Kaku had like 20+ raw m2t files already up.

We were promised by DVexpo that we would have raw clips from the HVX200, but have not yet, and here it is 13 days before it's release date we still have no raw clips to see as we were told we would have. We have winmedia9 and h.264 clips but no one has yet to upload a straight import from P2 into FCP as we have.

BTW, as i said before- Import into FCP was so easy that it was awesome. The P2 worked flawlessly with FCP for us. Thumbs Up!

So we will be unveiling these boring bland clips on sticks shot in a booth on my P2 cards with conditions more like how documentary or run and gun type filmmakers would be facing. This is real world filming, not studio filmmaking with sets and a lighting to make perfect pretty looking images.

Michael Pappas
Arrfilms@hotmail.com
PappasArts & Arrfilms Main site
http://www.pbase.com/Arrfilms
http://www.PappasArts.com
http://www.Myspace.com/

Jeff send me an email and we might use your offer and then let someone mirror it and then close yours out before we get near walletless cash stage.


Michael Pappas
Arrfilms@hotmail.com
PappasArts & Arrfilms Main site
http://www.pbase.com/Arrfilms
http://www.PappasArts.com
http://www.Myspace.com/


I'd host them, but I only have about 12GB per day of bandwidth allowance left on my server. If I exceed that it starts digging into my wallet pretty badly. :-(

Michael, why don't you simply send Mikko Wilson a message? He is already hosting the other files available and seems to have several servers.


http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=55670

Could set up a torrent file, P2P isn't all bad.

i agree, torrent it

Michael, stop making excuses for this camera. If the footage sucks it sucks! *smile*

- ShannonRawls.com

maybe he is just giving us a preface so that when we see how good the footage is in less than optimal conditions, we are astounded

maybe he is just giving us a preface so that when we see how good the footage is in less than optimal conditions, we are astounded

Yea, but he said it 38 times.

- ShannonRawls.com

Some are reading way to much into this.


Thanks Michael, I'm looking forward to seeing the footage regardless of composition and lighting.

Steve

Ok here are the clips.

My friend Barlow Elton can explain more how he imported these files into FCP from my P2 cards if you would like to know the process. Salatar has one more clip to put up. I believe it's another extreme close-up of the girl. Word of advice these clips work on some systems and not others. It will depend on your version of QT and I believe whether you have DVCPRO HD codecs in your system.

Here is the main link:

http://www.salatar.com/hvx200/


These are the direct links: One more 720 is coming too!

http://www.salatar.com/hvx200/1080iP2.mov

http://www.salatar.com/hvx200/HVX720-1.mov

http://www.salatar.com/hvx200/HVX720-2.mov


Michael Pappas
Arrfilms@hotmail.com
PappasArts & Arrfilms Main site
http://www.pbase.com/Arrfilms
http://www.PappasArts.com
http://www.Myspace.com/

The process was as simple as you'd expect. Pop the P2 into the powerbook, file import into FCP5 bin. I put clips on the timeline in both 720 and 1080i (the 1080 clip is pulldown) sequence presets and did very short edits of the material. Exported the clips in "make movie self-contained" in order to not recompress the files.

That's it.

Crap...

I'm at home on dial-up... Now you have forced me to drive to the office to download these. All the way to work on a saturday! (my office is less than half a mile away). Hehe.

Here I go...

Here is a direct link to the third HVX200 clip!


http://www.salatar.com/hvx200/HVX720-3.mov

Michael Pappas
Arrfilms@hotmail.com
PappasArts & Arrfilms Main site
http://www.pbase.com/Arrfilms
http://www.PappasArts.com
http://www.Myspace.com/

I downloaded the files and quiktime won't play them. Says there's a component missing?

Jim you need FCP, Edius Broadcast, or AVID HD to open the files.

Steve

I downloaded the files and quiktime won't play them. Says there's a component missing?

I got that on one of my Macs. You need the DVCPROHD component. It comes with Final Cut Pro. I'm not sure where else it's available.

Really beautiful footage. A few Chromatic Abberation issues, but nothing that a little shot planning can't fix.

I saw the 1080 footage and then watched it again at 2x, and I could see much more detail than I could in the 720 version, so the sensors are definetly not just 720. I mean, just look at the guy's face, it's so apparent.

All in all, incredible. And the DVCProHD codec is good enough that it plays on my Dual 867 G4 with 1 gig of RAM. It can get a little choppy, but as long as it's not full screen I'm good. Quite impressive indeed.

Really beautiful footage. A few Chromatic Abberation issues, but nothing that a little shot planning can't fix.

Tim, you should tell Panasonic that. Since last nights announcement I received 5 emails or more from Panasonic and I was told; and this is an exact QUOTE "" Do not share these clips." period. What is that? I should put up all these Panasonic emails on my web site to show you how a corporation can get nutty over clips that are not bad.

What's ironic is below that order to ""Do not share these clips." it reads ""Panasonic Ideas For Life" Dictatorship is not my idea of life....


Michael Pappas
Arrfilms@hotmail.com
PappasArts & Arrfilms Main site
http://www.pbase.com/Arrfilms
http://www.PappasArts.com
http://www.Myspace.com/


Really beautiful footage. A few Chromatic Abberation issues, but nothing that a little shot planning can't fix.

I saw the 1080 footage and then watched it again at 2x, and I could see much more detail than I could in the 720 version, so the sensors are definetly not just 720. I mean, just look at the guy's face, it's so apparent.

All in all, incredible. And the DVCProHD codec is good enough that it plays on my Dual 867 G4 with 1 gig of RAM. It can get a little choppy, but as long as it's not full screen I'm good. Quite impressive indeed.

Well some cats are out of the bag now. I realize that there may be some more tweaks to the camera for final release, but I'm glad you posted the clips. This let's me make a better decision since for me it's the HVX200 vs XL-H1. Battle of the titans.

I downloaded all clips, and I've been manipulating them like mad in Final Cut Pro, and comparing it to XL-H1 and XL2 footage. The HVX200 and XL-H1 footage both look gorgeous. I think the HVX200 looks more filmic and warm. The one thing that I must say the XL-H1 has over the HVX200 as I'm seeing so far is this - pushing the DVCPROHD footage with color correction and filtering is very unforgiving and it's easy to just annihilate the quality. Whereas the HDV from the XL-H1 is more like DV25 in it's ability to handle major tweaking, resulting in graininess, sure, but not self destructing.

Examples (keep in mind this is to intentionally put the images through harsh stupid tweaks)

HDV Example from XL-H1 - http://www.holyzoo.com/content/hvx200/blowout/Blowout_XL-H1.jpg

DV Example from XL2 - http://www.holyzoo.com/content/hvx200/blowout/Blowout_XL2.jpg

DVCPRO HD Example from HVX200 - http://www.holyzoo.com/content/hvx200/blowout/Blowout_HVX200.jpg

Of course, I would be going more for something along the lines of this:

http://www.holyzoo.com/content/hvx200/blowout/CC_HVX200.jpg

It's just a bit unsettling knowing what's going on underneath there. I think I can make the camera work for sure, and I still think many significant features kicks the XL-H1's ass. But gone are my feelings of HDV being a downright inferior codec for acquisition. The XL-H1 vs HVX200 is a highly neck and neck competition. Tough call. I'd like to own both. :)

Gotta get used to treading lightly on DVCPRO HD:

http://www.holyzoo.com/content/hvx200/blowout/CC2_HVX200.jpg - Nice!

Additional notes: I also ran similar tests on Varicam footage and it yielded similar results - gotta tread conservatively on the tweaking, particularly refraining from upping the blacks very far (I never do that anyway).

Another note, recompressing HDV back out to HDV after color correction is downright scary.

http://www.holyzoo.com/content/hvx200/blowout/HDV_Second_Pass_Destruction.jpg

I tested the HVX200 footage out to HDV (Mpeg2) and it's smooth, without any blocky artifacts whatsoever.

Regarding recompressing DVCPRO HD, it won't be part of my workflow, but I did a ton of simulation tests here, comparing what happens with HDV vs DVCPRO HD *after* acquisition:

http://www.holyzoo.com/content/hvx200/DVCPROHD_vs_HDV/

.....tell Panasonic that. Since last nights announcement I received 5 emails or more from Panasonic and I was told; and this is an exact QUOTE "Do not share these clips." period. What is that?

WHAT????? Are you serious Michael???? They have that kind of attitude with you??

- ShannonRawls.com

WHAT????? Are you serious Michael???? They have that kind of attitude with you??

- ShannonRawls.com


Very serious Shannon, totally out of line too!

I'm actually considering writing the headquarters. Reporting this whole incident as well contacting the Japan Headquarters, I'm a working professional who went to a convention and nowhere was it specified that I couldn't film with the HVX200 on my P2 cards. No signs, nothing. I guess there were something like 20 of them on the floor. So many of them who would think couldn't!

Then I offer this footage to people like you and I and everyone else here interested in clips from the HVX200. Then Panasonic sends me a ""Do not share these clips." email. And more emails, Basically telling me what to do. A citizen.... A big corporation like Panasonic; a world wide devision as big as Panasonic broadcast do this is very disheartening. I might as well post the emails for people to see. It's sad really. The HVX200 is a good camera, and to see Panasonic stoop so low is bad thing. Let the product sell it self.

Look how classy Canon is acting in their promotion of the XLH1. They are letting the product sell itself. I have a lot of respect for Canon. Panasonic should learn a thing or two from them.


Michael Pappas
Arrfilms@hotmail.com
PappasArts & Arrfilms Main site
http://www.pbase.com/Arrfilms
http://www.PappasArts.com
http://www.Myspace.com/

See man...that's what I'm talking about. Some of these companies are too INVOLVED and their emotions spill over on the internet. Kinda like that BLOG SPOT web page that people are saying is fake and fabricated to fool unsuspected internet googlers who are drooling over this camera. And what's up with these reps who get in arguments with consumers in these forums & at tradeshows...what is that??? Then we have all this dumb propoganda and announcements and fancy full page advertisments in DV magazine and such. All for a camera that ain't even out yet and hasn't even been reveiewed or it's footage witnessed good by anybody! You would think this camera cooks dinner and massages your feet after a long day of shooting. It's like they have given labotomys to these young naive cats, it's just ridiculous.

I mean...think about it. Can you guys fathom a Sony or Canon representative hanging out here arguing in a discussion forum with you about their forthcoming sub $10k camera that's supposed to be release 9 months from now?? Then imagine Sony goes on to diss the other manufacturers and their products to win you over and befriend you virtually. lol and then imagine that same Sony rep trying to convince you not to buy a competitors camera today but instead for you to "WAIT TILL NAB". LMAO! and then when NAB comes they have nothing to show you, so then after NAB they say WAIT TILL DVEXPO and when the expo comes, they have little 17" tv's to showcase their HIGH DEFINITION footage!!!!!! my goodness.......So now 9-months has gone by and everybody has waited on buying other GOOD gear to rather purchase this super-camera. You go out and manage to get some footage after the DVEXPO and would like to share it with the world at the DV Information Network, and what do you get??? You get demanding emails telling you what to do and not do with your own footage!

Man PUHLEEEZE!!! That is SO NOT the spirit of "DVINFO.NET". That sounds more like a tyrany.(sp?)

...least not forget.....it's 10-days before their "supposed" release date and NOBODY has ANY "OFFICIAL" footage to see WHATSOEVER...after TWO OR THREE MAJOR TRADESHOWS??? and also don't forget..they are being SECRETIVE on BASIC SPECIFICATIONS for the camera that we all should know about????

man....what is that???

Hey......I love their products, they are great....but their ethics have room for improvement??? I tip my hat to Sony, JVC & Canon.

- ShannonRawls.com

So how is the XLH1 going! I am so glad you got one, it's one hell of a camera!

See man...that's what I'm talking about. Some of these companies are too INVOLVED and their emotions spill over on the internet. Kinda like that BLOG SPOT web page that people are saying is fake and fabricated to fool un- ShannonRawls.com

Look how classy Canon is acting in their promotion of the XLH1. They are letting the product sell itself. I have a lot of respect for Canon. Panasonic should learn a thing or two from them.


You know, the actual street date of these cameras has been delayed a little and it may well be because of final tweaking. They may have felt like they still had a lot of work to do, but marketing had them out there showing product because of the trade show schedule. If you worked to bring something unique to market and had it shown off in a light that you found less-than-flattering you might get a little edgy, too.

Not that it isn't dicky of them to whine about it, but they may really feel like the product wasn't ready for market when they had to show it.

Personally, I can't find any serious fault with the concept or execution of this camera. Panasonic essentially have no competition. P2, DVC Pro HD, variable frame rates...there's just nothing else that compares in this price range. So they could be verbally abusive with me and I'd still be looking to buy one. ;-)

-Rob

I believe this camera might have been rushed. I love the concept of the HVX200. I also love the XLH1. Panasonic should not have had 20 of them on the floor at so many different booths. How many prototypes did they need to float around. I think that most people believed that since the camera was to be in stores in 21 days or so from the show date that these cameras were the real deal. Unfortunately Panasonic dropped the ball on this and should have had them in lock down until they were closer to a shipping product...


-pappas


You know, the actual street date of these cameras has been delayed a little and it may well be because of final tweaking. They may have felt like they still had a lot of work to do, but marketing had them out there showing product because of the trade show schedule. If you worked to bring something unique to market and had it shown off in a light that you found less-than-flattering you might get a little edgy, too.

Not that it isn't dicky of them to whine about it, but they may really feel like the product wasn't ready for market when they had to show it.

Personally, I can't find any serious fault with the concept or execution of this camera. Panasonic essentially have no competition. P2, DVC Pro HD, variable frame rates...there's just nothing else that compares in this price range. So they could be verbally abusive with me and I'd still be looking to buy one. ;-)

-Rob

I thought the clips were pretty impressive allowing for the fact that it was only a showfloor. I must admit to being a sceptic initially about the HVX, but I'm becoming a convert after seeing some of the recent footage.

Have to say Panasonics marketing doesn't do it for me though, very aggressive.

Unfortunately Panasonic dropped the ball on this and should have had them in lock down until they were closer to a shipping product...

-pappas

Eh, the cooperation between design and marketing departments seems like the kind of thing that's not exactly a given. I worked in TV for years and frequently wouldn't have minded throwing some of our sales guys off a really tall building.

Panasonic has a giant vision to even get a product like this out there this far ahead of the pack. They shouldn't be getting all freaked about some leaked footage, really, but in the chatty little sewing circle that is the online production community a bad buzz can travel pretty fast. I'm sure they just want to make sure people are seeing their best stuff. Peronally, I was plenty impressed by the footage I saw.

-Rob

Hello Michael,

I hope everything will be alright with Panasonic... I wouldn't inflame the situation by publishing some private e-mails, no matter how strange. But I have to agree with you, it was so crazy what Panasonic did. While I understand their motives (I remember Jan answering a complaint that there was indeed noise on those cameras at the Expo - a thing you can see by looking at your clips - and that the cameras are going to undergo some final tweaking), I CANNOT agree with their policy to try and stop you.

What I'm a bit dismayed of, is the lack of support from the regulars here on DVINFO.NET When somebody is looking for space to post some clips, Chris Hurd is always trying to accomodate that, or at least he would have some comment or posting discussing this aspect, if the bandwith was not something his site can handle. Especially for the HVX!!!! Also, Barry Green has not posted one line on this thread!

This is the most disappointing thing, as it is clear that Chris and Barry are not independent people who can follow the true spirit of this community. They are serving the goals of higher powers and are obeying the corporate commands - weather or not through receiving different kind of compensations, I don't know and I don't care.

Sorry to be so tough but that is the truth. Even if you are not aware of the "behind the scene" facts of this forum (and others), how can you explain the total silence when new, fresh clips of the most awaited camera are posted on dvinfo?!?!?! Fear?.. Let's get serious.

PS Once again Michael, I appluad your courage! You had some disagreements with Panny and other people before on this forum, and wether or not you were right is of the slightest importance. DVINFO needs people like you.

What I'm a bit dismayed of, is the lack of support from the regulars here on DVINFO.NET When somebody is looking for space to post some clips, Chris Hurd is always trying to accomodate that, or at least he would have some comment or posting discussing this aspect, if the bandwith was not something his site can handle. Especially for the HVX!Raw clips from the HVX can be quite meaty and demand an awful lot of server space and bandwidth. I would be happy to accomodate some 100mbps video if it were *not* shot on the floor of a trade show. To my eye, nothing is more boring and utterly useless than video shot from the floor of a trade show especially from pre-production cameras. I hosted clips like that before, and took quite a razzing from members here and from other sites, so at that point I decided never to host trade show footage again.

Now if it was something shot outside in the real world, like Kaku Ito's mountain bike clips or seagulls on a beach in Santa Monica (who here remembers that one?) then yes I'll host it. But, from the floor of DV Expo? At 100mbps? No thanks, in my opinion that's a waste of bandwidth.

This is the most disappointing thing, as it is clear that Chris and Barry are not independent people who can follow the true spirit of this community.Hello, hello... I *created* this community.

They are serving the goals of higher powers and are obeying the corporate commands - weather or not through receiving different kind of compensations, I don't know and I don't care.This is without question the single most crass and patently offensive thing I have read on my own boards in quite awhile. Damn, all this time I thought I had a pretty tough hide and could withstand this sort of bullshit, but honestly this crap has now ruined my day. If you want to talk trash about me, please do so from some other website... there are other small-brained people who seem to specialize in that... but don't come inside my own house to slap my face. Fortunately this is the *last* time I'll ever have to see this crap coming from you, because you are through here, permanently. Goodbye.

how can you explain the total silence when new, fresh clips of the most awaited camera are posted on dvinfo?Hey, if it wasn't shot on the floor of the trade show, then I'd be all over it. Michael is also a member of DVX User, so why not get Jarred Land or one of those guys to host those clips? And by the way, there will be no publishing private emails to this board nor will there be any links to published emails. And to hell with it, this thread is closed.