I have Christoph Manz with me and hoping the people with rez chart shooting knowledge to join us.

Kaku and friends are over there having an orgy with the camera. I wanted to get some, but they wouldn't let me in the bed room. I had to wait in the living room.

I left. *sad face*

- ShannonRawls.com

Shannon,
I enjoy reading all your posts. It's great to have you back.

It's broadcasting now.

rtsp://qtss.xtream.ne.jp/broadcast/bc001.sdp

the link might open in real but only works in qt, so paste in the open url in the QuickTime Player.

all I see right now is .... a cam shooting a wide screen tv its 9:14 central

That's a res chart he has taped up to his t.v. =)

heh heh..

presently, it shows exactly 255 horizontal lines and 203 vertical...

still going hehehe join me on the ichat

OK !

heh heh
I heard the sound though...
Kaku, I tought you were writing a book !

magazine aricle.....

But I will write it based on this. My deadline is already passed, but Chris Manz helped me with shooting setup.

I'm going to post some results soon.

Good !

thanks !

It is 8PM in Los Angeles and I am watching it live, pretty cool.
Stephen

shannon is back on.

Hey Kaku,
Nice set up
(sorry I don't do iChat)

Thanks for all your hard work
Cheers,
J

...Uh Oh
He's coming back up on camera...what's he gonna do know?

resolution chart zip file is posted at my site in the download section, Mac compatible clip section.

I will post the raw files, too.

Hey Kaku,
Nice set up
(sorry I don't do iChat)

Thanks for all your hard work
Cheers,
J

Thanks. I'm going to have my lunch now.

Kaku & his buddies hogged the prostitute and threw me out the room. He gave me a porno video and told me watch that instead.

*sad face*

- ShannonRawls.com

I had the pleasure and honor of speaking with both "Shan the man" and Kaku. Both fine gentlemen. I look forward to speaking with you sometime again. The video well. non eventful, but the conversation, very interesting. Thanks again guys!

what is thr direct link to the rez chart ?

thanks

Kaku & his buddies hogged the prostitute and threw me out the room. He gave me a porno video and told me watch that instead.

*sad face*

- ShannonRawls.com

I'm eating lunch now so turned off the broadcast for now.

Trying to link to the chat...can anyone supply the address or Chat name? Have iChat but not sure how to open this chat. Thanks.

finished my lunch but I really have to get on my writing now.

Thank you for joining, thanks to Chris Manz for technical help.

The direct link is here (http://www.xtream.ne.jp/component/option,com_docman/task,cat_view/gid,64/Itemid,68) but you have to register and log in first.

Broadcasting is closed for today, but we can probably do this on "Looking at HVX200 on KakugoTV", hehehe, this weekend.

Cool stuff Kaku, thanks!

Cool stuff Kaku, thanks!

Kaku is the MAN. If he had some kind of Paypal donation setup, I would send him $20 bucks just because he has gone above and beyond the call of duty.

- ShannonRawls.com

Now all we need is a few more Kakus and we'd have an HVX vs H1 comparison shootout already Shannon. =)

Raw zip file is up, too. That's it for today. My magazine editor is crying.

Kaku, could you please post JPEG frame grabs?

If you are making a test chart -- use a Blue background (zero Green and zero Red) with Red (zero Green and zero Blue) lines.

ONLY if you use a chart like this can you measure the true resolution of the CCD when you are shooting motion video of various colors.

I'm not sure about the IRE levels of the Red and Blue. In a standard rez. chart therir is a 100% "contrast" between background and lines. Not clear, how to achieve this with two colors. I'd guess using the same levels as in a color chart.

By comparing the numbers between this chart and a standard chart -- one can see how much Green-shift rez. adds.

If you are making a test chart -- use a Blue background (zero Green and zero Red) with Red (zero Green and zero Blue) lines.

ONLY if you use a chart like this can you measure the true resolution of the CCD when you are shooting motion video of various colors.

I'm not sure about the IRE levels of the Red and Blue. In a standard rez. chart therir is a 100% "contrast" between background and lines. Not clear, how to achieve this with two colors. I'd guess using the same levels as in a color chart.

By comparing the numbers between this chart and a standard chart -- one can see how much Green-shift rez. adds.

Steve,
I wish you were there when we were doing the test. I can do other test when we can and please supervise us at that time.

Kaku, could you please post JPEG frame grabs?

Petr,

I hope some one do that for you here.

If you guys don't have the frame grabs to look at, let us please have the numbers you are seeing.

Ok folks, here are frame grabs of all five different shots that were kindly provided by Kaku:
http://home.arcor.de/martin.doppelbauer/ResCharts/
I'm afraid you're not going to like what you see.
Both vertical and horizontal resolution is around 600 lph.

If this is really all there is, then the camera is nowhere near 1080p. In fact it's not even 720p. And the "CCD war", as somebody called it, is over with a big laugh. After seeing those chart my guess is Panasonic re-used the same 720x576 PAL CCDs chips which were already in the HVX100E.

Ok folks, here are frame grabs of all five different shots that were kindly provided by Kaku:
http://home.arcor.de/martin.doppelbauer/ResCharts/
I'm afraid you're not going to like what you see.
Both vertical and horizontal resolution is around 600 lph.

If this is really all there is, then the camera is nowhere near 1080p. In fact it's not even 720p. And the "CCD war", as somebody called it, is over with a big laugh. After seeing those chart my guess is Panasonic re-used the same 720x576 PAL CCDs chips which were already in the HDV100E.


Great, Martin, thanks a bunch for your work. Not that great for people who were expecting so much with HVX200, but I'm still okay with this. Panasonic aimed this one too cheap. I thought they were aming $ 10,000 range at the beginning. Many times I wrote that if anyone makes DV camera with memory option to do 60 frame recording, I would buy it, then there it is. HVX200 is too cheap. I would make good use of this camera along with using higer resolution shots with A1 (and A1 from the same test shows around 700lph at brief).

Any know off the top of their heads the vertical rez of the comparable HDV's (JVC, Canon, Sony) ?

A1 resolution chart shot is added and the post in my blog is here (http://www.xtream.ne.jp/content/view/282/62/).

Joseph,
I've just added a ResChart of my Sony HDR-FX1 and of the JVC HD100 to http://home.arcor.de/martin.doppelbauer/ResCharts/ . So you can compare these with the HVX200 yourself.

Hey Shannon: I still need a good shot of the XLH1 ;-)

Vertical resolution is:
Canon XLH1 about 800 lph (unconfirmed !) (1080i)
Sony HDR-FX1/Z1 about 700 lph (1080i)
Panasonic HVX200 about 600 lph (1080p)
JVC HD 100 about 500 lph (720p)

Interestingly the FX1 performs somewhat better on diagonal lines (around 750 lph). The HVX200 does not.
Please note that Kaku shot the res-shart a little too small (edges are not visible). So the resolution shows up a little better than it actually is.

We need to take all comparisons with a grain of salt because different people may use different settings and techniques -- in other words, it isn't purely objective science. But definitely helpful and interesting to all of us! FWIW, here's a link to my "straight out of the box" XL H1 tests:

http://www.geosynchrony.com/scratchpad.htm

I did not do a back focus adjustment or any custom settings at all for my rez test, and made the camera's autofocus speak for itself (no manual focusing).

Hey Shannon: I still need a good shot of the XLH1 ;-)
OK...we'll do it when the shootout is underway. I don't own a resolution chart, and I refuse to use a printout.
Please note that Kaku shot the res-shart a little too small (edges are not visible). So the resolution shows up a little better than it actually is.
Yes, I noticed that. He was too close to the chart which gave it a better score then it should have received.

I have received three emails from people telling me I cheated the XL-H1 out of a good score because we had the camera much too far back from the chart. They say it should have been closer to the chart and it would have gotten an even better score then it did: http://www.cinemahill.com/hidef/xlh1&f900/pages/IMG_0115.htm (and this is in 24f mode)
---------------------------------------------------

I personally don't think resolution chart scores mean jack in the grand scheme of things...
HOWEVER...
When the Sony HVR-Z1U came out and I was hellbent on defending how good it's final picture was in early 2005, the resolution score was "ALL" that people concentrated on, and that ONLY. People were constantly dogging the CF24/CF30 modes because of it's apparent low score on the resolution chart. THAT'S ALL THAT MATTERED back then. They discouraged people from buying the camera because of those resolution chart scores the Z1U received. it was so unfair....
BUT NOW, ALL OF A SUDDEN...
The rules of the game have changed. Now it's OK to have a low score....WTF???? Oh ok, LOL, so that's how it works huh? Change the rules when it's convienient. *shakin' my head* Now that other highly anticipated cameras are here and are scoring horrible in resolution chart testing....it's "not so important" anymore what grade they get. Now we are back on how good the picture is...the same song I was trying to sing before that somehow went unheard. That's Jacked-Up. It's a cold-blooded world out there.

And honestly...I still think these numbers are off. This is a progressive scan ain't it? Progressive scan is supposed to "IMPROVE" and all that when it comes to the resolution chart, right? Therefore, I think the HVX will score higher then these previous tests are showing when done on a proper resolution chart by someone who does this type of stuff all the time.

- ShannonRawls.com

I haven't looked at all the charts yet, but the approx. 600 lines, which I see on the the HVX, is dissapointing. Reading the chart that was here, probably shot by Shannon (I am not sure), it clearly indicated

H1 resolution

800Hx650V in progressive mode.

800Hx800V in interlaced mode was determined by a rather conservative German magazine.

Forget about me and nick's tests. We were concentrating on 'comparisons' between the f900 and the xl-h1. Not so much on the actual score.

- ShannonRawls.com

Yeah, I expect closer to 700 since Jan C. said they were getting about 750h x 700v.

I may have flipped those - 700h x 750v

Yeah, I expect closer to 700 since Jan C. said they were getting about 750h x 700v.

But Jan does work for Panasonic. It sure looks more like 600 on the tests that I have seen.

EDIT:
Actually the test here looks slightly higher. 650-700V but no more that 600 H

Forget about me and nick's tests. We were concentrating on 'comparisons' between the f900 and the xl-h1. Not so much on the actual score.

- ShannonRawls.com
I interpreted the result of the test as 800Hx650V in the progressive mode. I am not going by your interpretation, Shanon. The chart does not fill the screen fully so it shows lower resolution than the Canon camera actually has.

I don't believe anyone here or at the other forums believe the HVX200 will beat the XLH1 in rez.

Though, I am hoping the HVX200 is at least 700.

If not, I question if there be a definate difference in its 720 vs 1080 ?

hmmm. things are getting interesting.

Steve

I don't believe anyone here or at the other forums believe the HVX200 will beat the XLH1 in rez.

Though, I am hoping the HVX200 is at least 700.

If not, I question if there be a definate difference in its 720 vs 1080 ?

hmmm. things are getting interesting.

Steve


Good Point

Just for fun, I hand held shot the chart with my JVC HD10 .
It's resolution looks maybe just a little lower than the HVX !
Again, this was hand held, the chart was on an 8.5x11 printout.

HD10 at 720p http://home.earthlink.net/~lesd/hd/jvc-HD10-chart.jpg

JVC HD10 at 1920 size: http://home.earthlink.net/~lesd/hd/jvc-HD10-1920chart.jpg

and the HVX: http://home.arcor.de/martin.doppelbauer/ResCharts/0088YP.png

Enjoy! ;)

-Les

The thing is....even if the HVX does only resolve 600 lines, the Canon resolves just under 600 lines in its 24f mode.

I've just added a ResChart of my Sony HDR-FX1 and of the JVC HD100 . So you can compare these with the HVX200 yourself.

JVC HD 100 about 500 lph (720p)

Rez of HD 100 looks close to 700lph to my eyes ,am I wrong?
http://home.arcor.de/martin.doppelbauer/ResCharts/JVC%20HD%20100%20Mittlere%20Blende.jpg


Just for fun, I hand held shot the chart with my JVC HD10 .
It's resolution looks maybe just a little lower than the HVX !

I terms of resolution HVX200 may be not good though, but
I thought the quality of image of HVX200 was much much better than Z1, when I compared the HVX200 and Z1 side by side in a store focusing on red flowers. Rez of HVX and Z1 looked like the same to me there.

The thing is....even if the HVX does only resolve 600 lines, the Canon resolves just under 600 lines in its 24f mode.The Canon in 24F resolves 800Hx650V, per the Shannon shot chart.

Resolution Comparison:

Canon XL H1 from Shannon's chart http://www.cinemahill.com/hidef/xlh1...s/IMG_0115.jpg
800Hx650V progressive
800Hx800V interlaced from German magazine, not from Shanon

Panasonic HVX-200 from Kaku's test http://home.arcor.de/martin.doppelba...rts/0088YP.png
625Hx600V progressive

JVC HD-100 from Martin's chart http://home.arcor.de/martin.doppelba...e%20Blende.jpg
700Hx525V progressive

Sony FX-1 from Martin's chart http://home.arcor.de/martin.doppelba...P_Off%20f4.png
650Hx775V interlaced

I compensated for some factors, like for instance a chart not filling the screen properly.

The Canon is an absolute winner; combined with Wafan HDD or PC based recorder, 35 mm adapter and good quality relay nad 35 mm lenses, it should be an excellent camera for film production with theatrical release.

The Panasonic appears to have CCD's that employ both vertical and horizontal pixel shift, without full pixel count for the format in either direction.

Where can I download the rez chart everyone is using?