Hello all,

I have a brand new Z1 and a RODE NTG-1 and have not yet bought any headphones because I can't get my head around the huge price differences.

They range from next to nothing to AU$400+

Is there a certain feature I should be looking for in a good set of headphones?

I know I used to use a $50 pair but they ended up stuffed after just a few weeks (though they were used in a classroom by many, many rough 12 year old kids).

If I had some idea of what to look for in headphones I'd feel better about buying some rather than just giving myself a budget and buying any old set that might be a rip off.

Thanks for your help,
-- John.

What types of projects will you be doing?

Movie making primarily.

I was using a pair of Sony MDR V6's but am now using Future Sonics Ears. Takes a little bit to get used to having to stick something in your ears -- not as convenient as just popping on headphones. But the isolation is very helpful. Allows me to determine if I'm hearing what the mic is picking up, rather than getting fooled by what's leaking past the headphones.

Price isn't bad: $99.

The Future Sonics FS1 universal earphones look interesting. They weren't out when I bought the Future Sonics Ears.

Hello all,

I have a brand new Z1 and a RODE NTG-1 and have not yet bought any headphones because I can't get my head around the huge price differences.

They range from next to nothing to AU$400+

Is there a certain feature I should be looking for in a good set of headphones?

I know I used to use a $50 pair but they ended up stuffed after just a few weeks (though they were used in a classroom by many, many rough 12 year old kids).

If I had some idea of what to look for in headphones I'd feel better about buying some rather than just giving myself a budget and buying any old set that might be a rip off.

Thanks for your help,
-- John.

SOny MDR 7506....done.

Ty Ford

SOny MDR 7506....done.

Ty Ford

Really? They're quite a bit more expensive than I was going to pay. About $240 Australian.

What do they have that something of about half to three-quarters of the price don't have?

I guess that's my concern - I have no idea where my money's going with headphones.

To get an idea, got to an audio place and listen to really good headphones compared to cheap nasty ones.
There's a world of difference you can only experience through your ears.

Ebay Australia has a pair of 7506's going for A$180.
Pro headphones are not cheap. But if you like a bargain,
try out the Sony MDR-250V. (should be around A$50 or less).

From my experience in recording, I'd say any closed type headphones are fine for making sure that you're getting the audio and nothing is drastically wrong with it. As long as you can hear what is being recorded it should be fine. You can use the meters on the LCD of your camera to make sure the sound isn't clipping.

Now, in post production, I just made the mistake of using headphones to edit... bad mistake. I'll only use studio monitors for editing from now on.

Really? They're quite a bit more expensive than I was going to pay. About $240 Australian.

What do they have that something of about half to three-quarters of the price don't have?

I guess that's my concern - I have no idea where my money's going with headphones.

Yes, they don't suck. They are pretty much standard for here in the US. Over here they are $99 USD. Does that translate about right?


Regards,

Ty Ford

The Sony 7506 and 7509 (more expensive) are very good headphones and highly recommended.

I use the 7509's but the 7506 are generally considered the industry standard.

On the other hand, while these are very good closed back headphones, they are not "Sound Isolating" headphones. If you are in front of a rock band, or in any other very loud envirnment, you will not be able to tell what sounds are coming through the headphones versus the sounds leaking in through the headphones.

One company does take the drivers from the Sony 7506 and package it in another, more sound isolating, package. I have not tried these and they are even more expensive.

I am on a Top Fuel Dragboat racing team. The race creates a very loud environment. During the race passes, I can not tell if any sound is being recorded or not, since the noise comes right through the headphones from the outside.

However, the Sony 7509's play back the sound so well that it sounds just like being there! It is truely amazing.

Over here they are $99 USD. Does that translate about right? Not even close.

Generally speaking I expect to pay about one and a half times as much in AU$ as US$. But these headphones are almost two and a half times more expensive!

I'm going to get a pair from eBay US.

"I am on a Top Fuel Dragboat racing team. The race creates a very loud environment."

Naw! It can't be more than 280db! Wimp! :)

I am on a Top Fuel Dragboat racing team. The race creates a very loud environment. During the race passes, I can not tell if any sound is being recorded or not, since the noise comes right through the headphones from the outside.

It's for situations like this where isolation earphones come in handy.

I made the mistake once of thinking the sound I was hearing was audio coming through the camera. It was sound leaking past the headphones, and I missed noticing a misplaced lav mic. Fortunately we double-mic the guest in that particular circumstance and that saved the day. Otherwise it would have been a mess.

Since then I switched to isolating earphones.

Because they knock out extraneous noise, I can listen to them at lower levels. They also work great on long airline flights when connected to an iPod.

If you're in an environment with a harmful level of noise, these might also prove valuable. Some rock musicians are starting to use them and that's why they come in that hideous flesh-colored plastic.

I tried the Shure E3C's but found them lacking in bass response, which is important when trying to detect wind noise. The Futuresonics have a lot better audio quality. The higher-end "Ear Monitors", I assume, is probably even better than the "Ears" but I wasn't willing to spend that much.

If I were to do it again, I'd probably try their "ExtremeMac" earphones. A little more expensive but they look like they might be a little more convenient to put on.

The best of the line, of course, requires a custom-fit earpiece. An audiologist at Costco can help with that procedure. I'm considering that option, too.

John,
another Aussie here, we've got just about all types of headphones including Sony 7509s and yes they're expensive over here. For cans to use with cameras they're worse than useless! They're simply not sensitive enough, sure great sound for use in post but in the field forget them and any of the high price ones.
For field work stick to the cheap Behringers, HPS3000 are OK, or better still pick up a few pairs of Takstar DJ Headphones off of eBay, sold by "aunoreserve", should get them for around AUD 30 including delivery. Not the worlds best sound but very sensitive, you even get two pairs of leads in the deal, one coiled and one straight! So far we've resold over 30 pairs out of our shop, one customer bought 9 pairs, and so far not one complaint.
If you really want to use expensive cans in the field, get a headphone amp, without it it's very hard to tell what you're hearing from the headphones and what's coming in through the sides of them.

Interesting. The Sony MDR7506 are about the most sensitive professional headphones on the planet. I don't know how the 7509 compare with their sensitivity specs.

Having said that. I have heard that the headphone outputs on some of the new camcorders are really low. There are some bettery powered headphone booster devices I have heard about but have yet to try.

Regards,

Ty Ford

The headphone signal my Z1 gives isn't particularly loud, but that's often because I'm setting the levels low to avoid clipping.

I use the Sony 7509's with a Canon Xl1s.

Yes, while the 7509's are very sensitive, the Xl1s output is fairly low. In most environments, I usually have to have the headphone output level at its maximum setting. Sometimes, in a quiet environment, a lower setting will suffice.

Using a good mixer, such as the Sound Devices 302, you can monitor the camera sound via a "return" from the camera. In this case, the higher powered headphone drivers in the 302 solves the problem.

I am planning on purchasing a good set of ear buds or other sound isolating headphones to provide more isolation, for the times when it is necessary.

I welcome any recommendations.

If I do get a good set of expensive headphones, and then the sound guy has to be 30 feet away from the camera with the mic on a boom pole, I'll need a long extension lead for the headphones - is that going to degrade the quality much?

If it does I might just be better off with some cheaper ones...

Length of the lead shouldn't matter much. I'm trying to get hold of a better solution though. A headphone amp that simply bridges the mic line, that way the boom operator doesn't need a lead back from the camera, it's a Rolls PM50sOB.

I've also picked up an el cheapo RF headphone gizmo off eBay, only AUD 65, works OK but I need to modify the transmitter so it'll run off batteries, no big drama really, just finding the time :(

I also suggest the Sony 7506. The are well built, effecient, and sound great. Since they are an industry standard you have a good reference for your sound. The fact that they fold up and make you look like a Pro are also an asset. I also have a pair of the Sony 7509. They are bigger and seem a little tubby sounding for voice and music at low volume, but if you crank them to Pete Townsend Danger Level they sound great!

get the 7506.. you will really like them.

If I do get a good set of expensive headphones, and then the sound guy has to be 30 feet away from the camera with the mic on a boom pole, I'll need a long extension lead for the headphones - is that going to degrade the quality much?

If it does I might just be better off with some cheaper ones...

John,

That's not logical.

First, if the mic is on a boom at the end of a 30 foot cable, the sound comes to the camera. You can plug into the camera headphone jack on the camera.

Second, good mixers are used with a special camera/mixer interconnect cable. It has two balanced XLR conductors for the two channels of audio that go from the mixer to the camera and a single unbalanced "return" that has a mini plug on the camera end to plug into the camera headphone output and a mini plug on the other end that plugs into the camera return jack on the mixer.

You listen to the return audio with your headphones plugged into the mixer by hitting the camera return switch. That way you know the audio is making it from the mic to the camera and back. Unless the mixer is on the boomer, that still leaves the boom operator without a feed.

The answer to that is a camera mixer cable that has an extra female mini jack built in (Peter Engh makes them) so the camera op can plug in at the camera. You hang the mixer on the boom person and they plug headphones into the mixer.

The third scenario is to get a small battery powered belt box for the boomer. It has a mic in, a mic out and a headphone jack. The boom audio passes through the box, allowing the boomer to hear and continues on to the mixer. The mixer operator listens to the camera return and mixer as first described.

That's how it's done. Want more info? It's in my little book. Checck the book oput on my website.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Those ideas sound great, but unfortunately my savings is blown and all I've got to show for it sound-wise is a mic. I will not be using a mixer so I'm just going to be capturing straight to the camera from my NTG-1.

I am hoping this won't be too detrimental to the sound and from my simple tests so far it seems ok.

Then run a really long headphone cable for your boomer so he/she can tell if the boom is in the right place.

And good luck.

Ty Ford

One last question about the Sony 7506s;

Do the pads actually rest on your ears or are they so large that they sit 'over' your ears?

By which I mean am I going to get sore ears from having them on for hours or do they not touch your ears much at all?

You won't get sore ears. In addition to using them for video, I use them hooked up to my ipod once a week for a 2 hour bus ride. So I spend at least 4 hours with them on in a 12 hour stretch.

One last question about the Sony 7506s;

Do the pads actually rest on your ears or are they so large that they sit 'over' your ears?

By which I mean am I going to get sore ears from having them on for hours or do they not touch your ears much at all?

How big ARE your ears!!!!! :)

Usually the are on the ears. I can wear them off and on all day during a shoot. Towards the end of the day, I'll take them off and rub my ears because that feels good.

Ear massage, itself, is an underappreciated thing.

Regards,
Ty Ford

If you're REALLY worried about the pads on your ears, there are 3-5 companies that manufacture aftermarket pads for the 7506 made for a variety of circumstances, ranging from cold to comfort.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=cart&A=details&Q=&sku=368310&is=REG&addedTroughValue=49510_REG&addedTroughType=accessory_detail

Current prices for the Sony MDR7506 here in the Toronto area are about $179 CDN in most retail stores. Converted to Aussie dollars using today's exchange rates on XE.COM that works out to just about AU$210.

I've been looking to purchase new headphones and I'm interested in how the Sony 7506's stack up against the Sennheiser HD-280?
I wish I knew of someplace where I could try them out, but unfortunately I have to rely on second-hand info. I'd really appreciate honest opinions!
Thanks!
Jimi

I've been looking to purchase new headphones and I'm interested in how the Sony 7506's stack up against the Sennheiser HD-280?
I wish I knew of someplace where I could try them out, but unfortunately I have to rely on second-hand info. I'd really appreciate honest opinions!
Thanks!
Jimi
I cannot compare, but I have been happy with my HD280s. For large over-the-ear style, they fold three ways, so whatever fits your case (I use a backpack, so room is tight.) I replaced some earbuds after I found that working with a rockband, the Sony earbuds had some cancellation in the midranges in a loud environment (I was stressing because I thought I had a mic/pre-amp problem that was dropping the lead singer!)

I've been looking to purchase new headphones and I'm interested in how the Sony 7506's stack up against the Sennheiser HD-280?

I don't know about HD-280's.
But i have a pair of Sony 7506 and they're just brilliant. They're sensitive, very comfortable, lightweight, well-made.

Very glad i got them - highly recommended.

In the field I have been using Sennheiser HD202's. Very comfy, good sound, reasonable weight. Sure beats my old earbuds and lower line headphones!

I'd say often isolation is the most important factor by far. I've never tried the "in-ear" isolation headphones, but I can highly recommend at two price levels:

DirectSound Extreme Isolation headphones (Bassy, ~$100)

HN-7506 (Sony 7506 electronics in helicopter-pilot isolation headset) (Great, ~$250)

Can anyone who's tried both an HN-7506 AND the in-ear isolators make a comparison?

Also, don't be fooled by "noise cancelling headphones". These try to cancel sound actively and electronically, and tend to only affect certain parts of the frequency spectrum.

My friend has the Sennheiser HD280 headphones and uses them to build a board mix for his laptop when we're recording bands. He loves them.

The 280 is a good can, no doubt. There is a benefit to the 7506 that no one else can claim tho, regardless of sound quality or opinion.
The 7506 is the standard of the industry. Everyone who has been in the biz for any length of time ends up with them. They're very sensitive, very clear, and while they may not be the most accurate, everyone knows what they sound like, and they're like a reference monitor. Although it's good to test your audio on various reference monitors, the bottom line is that every house, and many places in the industry, have the same reference monitors or very similar monitors, because it helps tremendously to have a reference point. Sound quality aside (I love the 7506, but I also love old AT's, too) they are something that two engineers can cogently discuss because they both know the sound of that particular can.

Everyone who has been in the biz for any length of time ends up with them. . . . everyone knows what they sound like, and they're like a reference monitor.

I use the Senni HD280s and I only have myself to please. I have often thought that what I am hearing might NOT be that which others will are hearing. Interesting.

I wonder if - bet there is - there is an industry standard "table" to view and to then compare "where" amongst all this my Sennie appear? It would be reassuring to know just how close the HD280 are and how far apart they are from the HN-7506.

One "ergonomic" thing I experienced last week, while shooting, was that I couldn't use the 280s with a hard hat! The actual, substantial can supports get in the way of the hard hat. What I did was to slip the "head" part back around the back of my neck. It worked.

The 280 acted as "muffler" for the the noisy jack-hammers. I don't know how truly medically efficient they are, but it was better than nothing.

Grazie

Funny how this thread popped up the day after I ordered the Sony 7506 from B/H. Have used them many times before and loved them - especially liked how lightweight they were, sensitive, and most important, comfortable.

I'm sure there is better out there, but for my money, I'll take the 7506's anyday of the week. You won't be sorry, especially for the price.

I use the Senni HD280s and I only have myself to please. I have often thought that what I am hearing might NOT be that which others will are hearing. Interesting.

I wonder if - bet there is - there is an industry standard "table" to view and to then compare "where" amongst all this my Sennie appear?...

Grazie, I've not seen such a table - the field is open for you. I'll visit your web site!

My understanding is that many location and studio engineers for musical performance consider the Senn 280 their standard set of phones, the way we in audio for video consider the Sony 7506 a standard.

In olden times, (where's my rocking chair and lap-blanket?), before the home music studio business turned audio on its head, there were a few speakers considered "reference standard" for studios. Every good engineer knew what they sounded like, and could mix to them. Now there are a zillion choices, and the people at home have much better playback too (mostly). Reference standards are out the window, but not so much when it comes to headphones.

Actually, Rane used to publish a sheet on headphone frequeny response, impedance and sensitivity......


TA DAA! AS IF BY MAGIC!!!!

http://www.rane.com/hc4hp.html


Ty Ford

Excellent!

Ty you are a MONSTA! - Cheers mate.

Aw shucks . .'cept my HD280s aint amongst it! Poo!

Grazie

check their specs on the AKG page with the 240 or 270

Ty

check their specs on the AKG page with the 240 or 270

Ty

Eh? - You should know by now it don't take much to floor me! - Sorry .. what should I do?

G

What part of comparing teh specs between your phones and other AKG phones do you not understand?

Ty Ford

Thank you Ty,

These were the 3 items that floored me:

" . check their specs . ." who's specs? Senni specs? Rane specs?

" on the AKG page .. " which page? I can only see ONE Rane page - sorry.

" with the 240 or 270 " I have the 280s? Are you saying these are close enough for the purposes of comparisons?

If I can get something arse about face . . . I will! Apologies .. .

TIA,

Grazie

When I'm on that page I seee a chart with the specifications for a huge list of headphones. Do you not see it?

Regards,

Ty Ford

Grazie,
What Ty is suggesting (and I agree) is that even tho YOUR specific headphones aren't listed, YOUR headphones aren't terribly different from the AKG cans that are listed. Look at the AKG cans that are listed on the Rane page, and use that as a comparison. The values will be fairly close. Maybe you could pick up the phone or email Rane and ask them to update their page to include your specific model. Otherwise, just know that you're very close in relative sensitivity by looking at other AKG headphones in that list.

Bit late! Apologies .. been nursing my Partner . . ! Just given her a bowl of Chicken soup .. .

OK Dokey!

When I'm on that page I seee a chart with the specifications for a huge list of headphones. Do you not see it?

Regards,

Ty Ford

Yes I see the CHART. I see lots of different Cans mentioned. I see AKGs, Sennies . .etc etc But only ONE page. Is/was there "another" and AKG page being mentioned? - Seems not?



Grazie,
What Ty is suggesting (and I agree) is that even tho YOUR specific headphones aren't listed, YOUR headphones aren't terribly different from the AKG cans that are listed. Look at the AKG cans that are listed on the Rane page, and use that as a comparison. The values will be fairly close. Maybe you could pick up the phone or email Rane and ask them to update their page to include your specific model. Otherwise, just know that you're very close in relative sensitivity by looking at other AKG headphones in that list.

Thank you Douglas. I didn't "know" that the Sennies would be similar to the AKGs. And yes, now I know this I can compare them to the AKGs. I will take up the constructive observation - I wont phone from London - but I might very well email them. Jolly good idea! Nice to know I've got as sensitive cans as the AKGs - at least I can say something "knowledgeable" and with some authority when/if the subject arises say: "Similar to AKGS range . . ." OR that if I should be working with a chap who HAS AKGs I can be assured that what HE is hearing and what I am hearing, at least in terms of the cans, would be similar. This is as good as it gets, I guess?

Thanks guys.

Grazie

When I was at the Church, I looked up some information on the HD 280 pro.
Impedance 64 ohms (as per IEC 268-7)
Input power 500mw (as per IEC 268-7)
Frequency response 8 Hz - 25 kHz
Sound pressure level 102 dB (as per IEC)
113 dB / 1 V rms
Ambient noise attenuation Max.32 dB
THD < 0.1% (at 51KHz, 100 dB SPL)
Weight approx. 285 g
Contact pressure approx. 6 N

Wow. Ty, thanks! Rane seems to confirm industry scuttlebutt that 7506 are reasonably sensitive and Senn. generally not as much.

Grazie, sorry, I guess I won't be visiting your web site ;-(